Now that france are finalists.....

dbnavan

.....do the the FAI have egg on their face?

OK I am sure some people will be pi33ed off at me bringing this up again, but Yes I was a Brian Kerr fan, and didnt think he had to go, so now that it transpires that France were the only team to beat him in WCQ and we came out of paris with a fantasic draw, was he not given the credit he was due when you compare their team to what we had.

PHB

Big deal, he couldn't beat the ****e teams, but could lose and get a draw against a very good team? Is that what we should be reconsidering?

KdjaCL

PHB wrote:

Big deal, he couldn't beat the ****e teams, but could lose and get a draw against a very good team? Is that what we should be reconsidering?

But OMG is it not clear now that among those ****e teams nestles Ireland!!!! Punching above its weight for years now we sit at the table we belong 4th seed.




The premiership has proved that a World Cup level the players are not what the media portrays them as.........Unless i missed one who actyually performed well at the World cup??? (lets blame it on too mnay games tho....)





kdjac

mike65

You mean like Ballack or Shevchenko?

Mike.

Jivin Turkey

KdjaC wrote:

The premiership has proved that at World Cup level the players are not what the media portrays them as.........

And I'm sure you think the same about La Liga......

In fact did any La Liga players even make it to the quarters? A handful of Brazilians is all I can think of, yet something tells me the same people won't be out to gut "the best league in the world".

KdjaC wrote:

Unless i missed one who actyually performed well at the World cup???

Not been watching Ricardo Carvalho? Makelele has also been very good for France.

KdjaCL

Jivin Turkey wrote:

And I'm sure you think the same about La Liga......

In fact did any La Liga players even make it to the quarters? A handful of Brazilians is all I can think of, yet something tells me the same people won't be out to gut "the best league in the world".

Zidane?


Seems seria b/c is the place to be.....


kdjac

mike65

Exactly, we have 2 teams left which is say 32 players who could play in the final, of which half are in Italy. Therefore Serie A must be the BEST LEAGUE IN TEH WORLD!

Is it though?

Mike.

KdjaCL

mike65 wrote:

You mean like Ballack or Shevchenko?

Mike.

LOL post of the Wc


kdjac

Guy:Incognito

mike65 wrote:

Exactly, we have 2 teams left which is say 32 players who could play in the final, of which half are in Italy. Therefore Serie A must be the BEST LEAGUE IN TEH WORLD!

Is it though?

Mike.

Sure most of them are serie b & c players.

Jivin Turkey

KdjaC wrote:

Zidane?

So what does that bring the total to? Four?

dbnavan

It only took 4 posts to lose the original topic, is that a record lads?

KdjaCL

Jivin Turkey wrote:

So what does that bring the total to? Four?

And the total for the glorious PL in the final is ??

Makele
Henry
Gallas
........ right im stuck here

And then we move on to who has actually performed... Gallas?

Seriously who from the PL has performed at this Wc? Not a general disregard for the league its hardly been represented well by the players who play there. La Liga and PL would be my choice of entertainment but when does entertainemtn win important football matches.

As this is heading towards England Cole and for a few minutes Lennon were the only players who actually looked world class.



kdjac

KdjaCL

dbnavan wrote:

It only took 4 posts to lose the original topic, is that a record lads?

/no thats called Jivin turkey


kdjac

Jivin Turkey

KdjaC wrote:

And the total for the glorious PL in the final is ??

Only four La Liga players (so far that we named) reached the quarter finals. We are not taking about the final. There are at least 30 EPL players that got that far.

KdjaC wrote:

/no thats called Jivin turkey

I'll get back on topic so.

No the FAI were not left with egg on their faces. Kerr struggled to get fourth in what was a very winnable group. France subsequently rode their luck and have been lucky to reach the final.

End of story.

Q.E.D.

Lock the thread.

GrumPy

Great, the final is between two teams who have so far not performed 100% in the majority of there games, and have the two strongest defenses :rolleyes:

The Germany vs Portugal game will be better TBH.

dbnavan

Jivin Turkey wrote:

No the FAI were not left with egg on their faces. Kerr struggled to get fourth in what was a very winnable group. France subsequently rode their luck and have been lucky to reach the final.

End of story.

Q.E.D.

And your opinion is non disputable and end of story why?? You have a PHD is soccer management?? Do you work for the FAI or something??? :rollseyes:

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Lock the thread.

Why? because someone, who wants to discuss this might disagree with you?

KdjaCL

Jivin Turkey wrote:

No the FAI were not left with egg on their faces. Kerr struggled to get fourth in what was a very winnable group. France subsequently rode their luck and have been lucky to reach the final.

Lock the thread.

How is that by beating everyone who hey played? Whether we like it or not when it came to the crunch they won. Whether we like the style of their play its irrelevant they are in the final of the World Cup.

sucks but hey they beat us playing like that.


kdjac

Jivin Turkey

dbnavan wrote:

And your opinion is non disputable and end of story why?? You have a PHD is soccer management?? Do you work for the FAI or something??? :rollseyes:

Why? because someone, who wants to discuss this might disagree with you?

Sorry for coming across very strong, what I said was said tongue in cheek as I had been accused of taking the thread off-topic.

Having said that I still don't feel that the FAI have been left with egg on their faces because France are in the final.

Remember it was not only France that came ahead of us in the group, it was also Switzerland, and then remember it was not only France and Switzerland, it was also Israel. We recorded our worst placing in twenty odd years, and deserved every bit of it, despite the group not being incredibly tough.

We were lucky to beat Cyprus, very lucky.

Now I'll happily discuss this with you if you want, but they are the cold hard facts.

KdjaC wrote:

How is that by beating everyone who hey played? Whether we like it or not when it came to the crunch they won. Whether we like the style of their play its irrelevant they are in the final of the World Cup.

sucks but hey they beat us playing like that.

Now I didn't say France didn't deserve to be in the final, I just said they rode their luck at times. Luck plays a big part in every cup run, and France have been able to play poor and get away with it. They have also been let off the hook by bad finishing from both Portugal and Brazil.

I hold nothing against France, in fact I hope they win it, but I'm sure they would be the first to admit that they are hardly steamrolling all in sight.

KdjaCL

Jivin Turkey wrote:

but they are the cold hard facts.

The cold hard facts are that we are **** and have been punching above our weight for years but now the weight of expectation is laid upon us it seems the PL brigade just cant admit to the fact that we are ****.


Kerr was the and is the best man for the job, sadly the FAI/players failed to heed his instructions/ability.

I would say the FAI do have egg on their faces as the coach of France and the ex-coach of Argentina know Kerr quite well. But can only account for beating his **** senior side.


kdjac

Jivin Turkey

KdjaC wrote:

The cold hard facts are that we are **** and have been punching above our weight for years but now the weight of expectation is laid upon us it seems the PL brigade just cant admit to the fact that we are ****.

We are not the best footballing side, I know that, but we should be challenging Switzerland, who are no great shakes themselves, beating Israel, and comfortably beating Cyprus.

KdjaC wrote:

Kerr was the and is the best man for the job, sadly the FAI/players failed to heed his instructions/ability.

I'd rather let Kerr's record speak for itself before going off saying he is the best man for the job.

KdjaC wrote:

I would say the FAI do have egg on their faces as the coach of France and the ex-coach of Argentina know Kerr quite well. But can only account for beating his **** senior side.

I find it ironic that you mention Pekerman, a coach in a similar vain to Kerr, ousted from his job as a result of a naive tactical error that proved costly in a crunch game.

Attractive Nun

Jivin Turkey wrote:

In fact did any La Liga players even make it to the quarters? A handful of Brazilians is all I can think of, yet something tells me the same people won't be out to gut "the best league in the world".

England: David Beckham (all others bar Hargreaves play in England)

Portugal: Luis Figo, Hugo Viana, Miguel, Deco (maybe 4 or 5 others play outside Portugal)

Brazil: Roberto Carlos, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Cicinho, Robinho (The remainder spread between France, Italy, Germany, England, Portugal and Brazil)

Argentina: Roberto Ayala, Juan Sorin, Fabriccio Collocini, Esteban Cambiasso, Javier Saviola, Juan Román Riquelme, Leonardo Franco, Gabriel Milito, Pablo Aimar, Maxi Rodriguez, Lionel Messi

Ukraine: None (With the exception of Shevchenko, and I think 2 who play in Russia, they all play in Ukraine)

Germany: None (Ballack, Lehmann and Huth play in England - the rest play in Germany)

France: Zinedian Zidane (The remainder spread between England, Italy and France)

EDIT: Forgot Italy: None, they all play in Italy

That's 23 players in total. Way more than any other league, if you don't count players who play domestically. I don't see how La Liga comes off badly in this.


And yes I have a lot of time on my hands.

Pigman II

dbnavan wrote:

transpires that France were the only team to beat him in WCQ and we came out of paris with a fantasic draw, was he not given the credit he was due when you compare their team to what we had.

That result in Paris was a joke. We were more or less playing their reserve side (only about 3 (including Barthez) would be in their current WC first XI), they put in a shambolic performance and we still only came away with a point. I remember Keane going ape**** once because the Ireland team were celebrating a draw v Holland when he felt we should have won. I didn't agree with him on that occasion but that's exactly how I felt after Paris. All 0-0 was was a failure to take advantage of an once in a life-time opportunity. Even now I have to laugh at RTEs Sports Files replaying that game as tho it actually meant something significant.

I'd say if we'd played the '05-06 rejuventated Thuram/Zidane/Makelele team etc team back in Paris we'd have lost that too so don't even kid yourself that we were in the same league as them. Irelands WC06 campaign was a shambles more-or-less from start to finish and Kerr deservedly got the boot.

dbnavan

Pigman II wrote:

That result in Paris was a joke. We were more or less playing their reserve side (only about 3 (including Barthez) would be in their current WC first XI), they put in a shambolic performance and we still only came away with a point. I remember Keane going ape**** once because the Ireland team were celebrating a draw v Holland when he felt we should have won. I didn't agree with him on that occasion but that's exactly how I felt after Paris. All 0-0 was was a failure to take advantage of an once in a life-time opportunity. Even now I have to laugh at RTEs Sports Files replaying that game as tho it actually meant something significant.

I'd say if we'd played the '05-06 rejuventated Thuram/Zidane/Makelele team etc team back in Paris we'd have lost that too so don't even kid yourself that we were in the same league as them. Irelands WC06 campaign was a shambles more-or-less from start to finish and Kerr deservedly got the boot.

Ok so if we look at lets say the irish Indo the following Day.....


IRELAND got what they came for at the Stade de France last night, thanks to a committed, disciplined, professional performance, with outstanding displays from, among others, back four.

French Team that night
Barthez (118), Gallas(44), Squillaci, Givet(11), Silvestre(40), Mavuba, Dacourt (Diarra 64), Wiltord(84), Pires(79)**, Henry(82), Cisse(29)* (Govou 82).

** Should have made squad
* injured but was in the squad
player in bold went to germany , thats actually eight of the team that made the Squad
() = International caps
Vastly expierence side there IMO

Unearthly

Brian Kerr annoyed me so much as Ireland manager. How often did we take a lead, and then set into this defensive mode trying to hold onto the lead?

We got punished and rightly so.

As for France, very naive to think we matched them. It's true they have been utter crap through the qualifiers, and group stage of WC, but they didn't play a top side so got through them, albeit stumbling.

It's those 2 performences against Spain and Brazil that have helped them make it this far. They randomly turned on the style when it mattered. France were there for the taking in the qualifiers, anyone could see that, but Kerrs defensive mind stopped us from getting that.

As for punching above our weight finishing 4th, I think you got the 2 Irelands confused.

BaZmO*

It's a silly argument. France beat a load of teams to get to a WC final and we get a draw and then get beaten by them in a qualifier and then somehow we should be on a par with them? How does that work? Even if we had of beaten them twice in the qualifiers it's a pointless argument.

What's that website that lists the unofficial current World Champions basing the results on who ever beats the last holders with the start being from the winners of the first WC ?

eirebhoy

Unearthly wrote:

Brian Kerr annoyed me so much as Ireland manager. How often did we take a lead, and then set into this defensive mode trying to hold onto the lead?

Unfortunately, that is what teams do and it is instinct of players to do so. I'd critisise a manager for making a defensive substitution as it not only makes the team more defensive but makes them think defensive. Kerr never did this. His tactics in Israel were spot on, the game at home to Israel was a freak game which on another day we would have won 5-0. The team was rattled in Switzerland and that is what forced them to sit back. Why would Kerr tell them to go out and attack in Paris but sit back on a point in Basle (Yakin scored in the 17th minute)? Blame the manager all you like.

I know what Kerr could have done with, a few Martin O'Neill type speaches.

btw - I'm still 50/50 as to whether Kerr should have gone and I hope Stan proves a success.

Unearthly

I agree teams go into defensive mode automatically when defending lead, however, that's usually in the last 10-5 minutes of a match. Ireland were doing this in the first half!

Kerr made one of the biggest cock ups against Israel as far as subs goes, Robbie Keane injured, fair enough had to go, but what does he do? Brings on a midfielder to replace him and puts Duff upfront where he isn't half as effective.

Their goals may have been lucky, but if we had got through them, some other team would of found us out later on. It's a very risky way to play, and often it doesn't pay off.

I don't get your point about Switzerland, we took a very early lead, and then just crumbled. What happened to our compusure? Keeping the ball? Adding more pressure. Switzerland aren't an attacking team, yet Yakin looked like Kaka on form in that match and without Shay Given, we could of lost by a number of goals.

As for France, don't get me wrong, a draw in Paris was a good result(on paper anyway), and had set us up nicely in the group. My complaint was the way the match was played, we could and should of won it. I was also pissed off not winning it, as I was with Holland back in 2000. Call us **** etc, but we were able to compete with every team in that group, and we vastly underachived due to the manager.

Jivin Turkey

Attractive Nun wrote:

That's 23 players in total. Way more than any other league, if you don't count players who play domestically. I don't see how La Liga comes off badly in this.

I forgot about the whole Argentinian side, that's a good chunk. But my original point was that England's failure as people are so quick to put out says nothing of the standard of the Premiership, particularly seeing as most the people who would make such remarks are the first to laud La Liga as head and shoulders above the rest.

But somehow they manage to forget Spain's dismal failure (yet again) at a major championship.

dbnavan

Unearthly wrote:

Brian Kerr annoyed me so much as Ireland manager. How often did we take a lead, and then set into this defensive mode trying to hold onto the lead?

How often have we seen that from other teams in this world cup.

Unearthly wrote:

As for punching above our weight finishing 4th, I think you got the 2 Irelands confused.

Everyone makes 4th sound so bad when those above us in 2nd and 3rd where 1 point ahead of us and had we beaten Isreal either time when where in the lead we would have won the group!

Unearthly

I never said Ireland were the only ones who do it(or did it). It doesn't matter whether it's Brazil/Argentina or France, it's still a mentality I don't agree with. Only thing is they have the players to win games, even when playing poorly. We don't have the defensive strenght to cope 60 odd minutes keeping a team out.

You backed me up there in your last point surely, going defensive cost us winning?

eirebhoy

Unearthly wrote:

I never said Ireland were the only ones who do it(or did it). It doesn't matter whether it's Brazil/Argentina or France, it's still a mentality I don't agree with. Only thing is they have the players to win games, even when playing poorly. We don't have the defensive strenght to cope 60 odd minutes keeping a team out.

You backed me up there in your last point surely, going defensive cost us winning?

It's not some teams that do it, every team does it. We're just not as strong as, say, France so while they sat back on a lead last night and looked comfortable, we do the same and would probably concede. It's not tactics to sit back though, it's instinct (most of the time).

Graham Kavanagh: "it certainly wasn't a conscious effort on the lads to sit back and defend deep"

It just happens. Teams tend to drift further back when they have something to defend and the opposition tend to push forward when they have nothing to lose.

patmac

Maybe we were punching above our weight for years but is was the great team spirit which got us results against more talented teams, that spirit was missing from latter games and the manager must take the blame for that. Kerr's team never beat any team of any consequence, Georgia being the highest ranked team. Also I won team specific tickets in the 1st Fifa lottery for the first four games of this years WC and had made plans etc to go and I had to give them back and it cost me €20 admin fee, so I win the lottery and it costs me €20! Kerr was unproven, as is Steve Staunton, the FAI have egg on their faces alright for selecting the cheap option.

Unearthly

Eirebhoy

You're thinking of the last 10 minutes, when the winning team have their backs to the walls, shut up shop. As you say, I think that is natural.

Defending as early as the 10th minute of a game is not natural! It's almost like they never in their wildest expecations expected to take a lead against the Swiss, and said **** it, lets try and keep this, and even if we fail, a draw will do.

and I don't know where this punching above our weight has come from. Where? All we have done since 1994(not including the WC) is qualify for 1 competitive tournament and made the knockout stage. That doesn't strike me as punching above our weight. Look at a team like Sweden, consistently there or thereabouts in the knockout stages of tournaments and their team is full of people who couldn't cut it in the prem.

Don't get me wrong, I don't expect to win the World Cup, but atleast make an effort and say in our minds, atleast we did our best.

People say England fans are too cocky and expect to win everything, I think we have the opposite attitude in Ireland. "Ah sure, we almost made it, give it a lash jack" Have a bit more confidence in your team ffs!