ruling lets Provisonal drivers drive solo

Stark

Well actually there are talks of the EU fining Ireland over the provisional driver situation.

Henry Ford III

kona wrote:

....my friends mother is in the insurance industry and she has told me that your insurance isnt void on a provisional in the event of a crash......

Fair enough then. Kona's pals Mum has laid down a binding decree.

Nothing more to discus here, let's move along

alias no.9

maidhc wrote:

Judge Patwell is not known for going easy anyone who breaks the Road Traffic Acts

Unlike the leniency he showed when sentancing a certain well to do gentleman for the possession of pornographic images of children. Tim Allen should have done porridge but because he waved a bit of cash around, he pretty much got off. I hope nobody here still buys any products from Ballymaloe.

Hotblack Desiato

kona wrote:

from what i see i am a more competant driver than the 80year old grannies who still afther all those years of driving havn't figured out how to go from 2nd to 3rd,and who probably aint in as tip top physical condition as i am.

Unfortunately for you and all other young male drivers, not many 80-year-old grannies are driving into walls at 3am and killing 3 or 4 of their 80-year-old friends.

MrPudding

alias no.9 wrote:

Unlike the leniency he showed when sentancing a certain well to do gentleman for the possession of pornographic images of children. Tim Allen should have done porridge but because he waved a bit of cash around, he pretty much got off. I hope nobody here still buys any products from Ballymaloe.

But the relish is sooo good.

MrP

blastman

kona wrote:

i never said i was good !!!i said i was more competant than a 80 year old granny who pays sweet f.uck all in premiums and uses her bumpers to park the car, where poor me who wants a classic car has to shell out loads in premiums.

Do you know where this woman lives?

kona

ninja900 wrote:

Unfortunately for you and all other young male drivers, not many 80-year-old grannies are driving into walls at 3am and killing 3 or 4 of their 80-year-old friends.

yes they do, but as metioned earlier they do it in 1st and from what ive seen its when parking.
lets not be sexist here females have their fare share of speeding and crashes.
i think the insurance companies should take into account the type of car more, i amnt a muppet in a v-tec civic!!!! i want a classic 1.3 mini, the engine in which was designed almost 50 yr ago. i want the car because of its beauty not to thrash the bajaysus outa it on a beach.
i dont wanna race, id go to mondello for that.
oh mr henry ford, do you work in insurance or know sombody who does???i was just throwing it out there so you all know what goes on with the insurance companes policies on provo licenses

kona

blastman wrote:

Do you know where this woman lives?

take a trip to nolans in clontarf on a sat morning you wont be dissapointed, that and churches, bingo halls etc;) .
where she lives is irrelevant where she drives is.:D

maidhc

ninja900 wrote:

Unfortunately for you and all other young male drivers, not many 80-year-old grannies are driving into walls at 3am and killing 3 or 4 of their 80-year-old friends.

I have an image of monty python's "hells grannies" in my head here.

alias no.9 wrote:

Unlike the leniency he showed when sentancing a certain well to do gentleman for the possession of pornographic images of children. Tim Allen should have done porridge but because he waved a bit of cash around, he pretty much got off. I hope nobody here still buys any products from Ballymaloe.

Perhaps, but it is hardly fair to punish his whole family by boycotting the business.

Anan1

kona wrote:

yes they do, but as metioned earlier they do it in 1st and from what ive seen its when parking.
lets not be sexist here females have their fare share of speeding and crashes.
i think the insurance companies should take into account the type of car more, i amnt a muppet in a v-tec civic!!!! i want a classic 1.3 mini, the engine in which was designed almost 50 yr ago. i want the car because of its beauty not to thrash the bajaysus outa it on a beach.
i dont wanna race, id go to mondello for that.
oh mr henry ford, do you work in insurance or know sombody who does???i was just throwing it out there so you all know what goes on with the insurance companes policies on provo licenses

Insurance companies calculate premiums on the basis of claims experience. Young people pay more than the elderly because they claim more. Also, try reading Ninja 900's post properly. Pay attention, as you would when you're driving.;)

kona

Anan1 wrote:

Insurance companies calculate premiums on the basis of claims experience. Young people pay more than the elderly because they claim more. Also, try reading Ninja 900's post properly. Pay attention, as you would when you're driving.;)

i am young and i am never gunna claim unless its a crazy amount that needs done!!!
but unfortunatly its the other muppets who have cars and have serious crashes that do claim.
it seems to be poor young people being stereotyped and in some cases rightly so, but how can you justify the difference between the guts of e3000 insurance and e200 for the same product/service just being sold to different people of different age??? i will agree that as i am learning i should pay more but not almost 15 times more.
i wonder if i said i was a 'ladieeeee' could i sue them for gender discrimination hell well throw in ageism too i mean i might as well take advantage of this P.C era!!!!

Sparky

Do we insure blind drivers when they are over 70?
It seems the case with the woman across the road from me. She can't see anything without it being 3 inch's away from her, yet she gets into an old 92 micra every weekend.
I dont know how she does it, honestly.

colm_mcm

What sort of knob tints a windscreen?!

Hotblack Desiato

Sparky-s wrote:

Do we insure blind drivers when they are over 70?

Yes because their family doctors would rather certify them fit to drive than tell them the truth, even if they're a menace to themselves and everyone else!

Medical examinations for driving should really be done by an independent doctor.

maidhc

ninja900 wrote:

Yes because their family doctors would rather certify them fit to drive than tell them the truth, even if they're a menace to themselves and everyone else!

Medical examinations for driving should really be done by an independent doctor.

TBH they don't seem cause that many accidents. Take the car of some of them and they are housebound (not everyone lives beside a bus stop...etc). It would be a disproportionate response to a relatively small problem.

Anan1

kona wrote:

i am young and i am never gunna claim unless its a crazy amount that needs done!!!
but unfortunatly its the other muppets who have cars and have serious crashes that do claim.

It's not just you who can claim on your insurance. Supposing you hit someone else?

kona wrote:

it seems to be poor young people being stereotyped and in some cases rightly so, but how can you justify the difference between the guts of e3000 insurance and e200 for the same product/service just being sold to different people of different age??? i will agree that as i am learning i should pay more but not almost 15 times more.

Insurance is based on risk. If another company thought they could turn a decent profit on selling you cheaper insurance then they would do it. Younger people claim more, therefore they pay more.

Henry Ford III

Yes Kona, part of my work is in insurance so I know the principles.

I'm not involved in motor ins. however.

Hagar

At the moment the waiting list for test is longer than the vailidity of a single provisional licence. The state knows this the drivers know this. So people are applying for licences knowing they won't be tested and the Authorities granting them know it too.

We can't penalise current provisional drivers who are already in this mess it would be unfair.

I suggest the following:-

1) Don't issue any more provisional licences until the waiting time for a test is shorter than the validity of a licence. A firm test date is given to you at the time your licence is issued.

2) Abolish the concept of 2nd and 3rd provisional licences. You are either on a provisional or a full licence end of story.

3) Provisional licence holders must be accompanied by a qualified driver at all times.

4) There must be an "L" plate on a car driven by a provisional licence holder.

5) If you do your test and fail your current licence is immediately revoked as you have proved yourself unfit to drive. You must apply for a new provisional licence. One will be granted if the waiting list is short enough. As above you will then be issued with a firm test date.

Drivers found guilty of breaching the terms of their provisional licence have it revoked on the spot and are barred from applying for a new one for 12 months.

These suggestions might seem harsh but I think they would be far better than the melee on our roads right now.

kona

Henry Ford III wrote:

Yes Kona, part of my work is in insurance so I know the principles.

I'm not involved in motor ins. however.

well then my statement has more weight than yours due to the fact it comes from the motor insurance industry

Anan1

kona wrote:

well then my statement has more weight than yours due to the fact it comes from the motor insurance industry

Priceless..

Seth Brundle

kona wrote:

take a trip to nolans in clontarf on a sat morning you wont be dissapointed, that and churches, bingo halls etc;) .
where she lives is irrelevant where she drives is.:D

But don't accidents generally occur within 3 miles of ones home?


Actually I recall a sound piece of advice from Viz years ago - given that accidents usually occur within 3 miles of home, park your car just over 3 miles from your house and walk home!

Hagar wrote:

At the moment the waiting list for test is longer than the vailidity of a single provisional licence.

A P licence lasts for two years. The test waiting list is about half this (Raheny @ 60 weeks seems to be the longest wait).

Hotblack Desiato

maidhc wrote:

TBH they don't seem cause that many accidents. Take the car of some of them and they are housebound (not everyone lives beside a bus stop...etc). It would be a disproportionate response to a relatively small problem.

So we should let dangerous drivers on the road if we feel sorry for them? Sorry, I can't accept this. Either they're safe enough to be on the roads or they are not. Why bother with medical examinations at all - or should where you live determine whether you are allowed on the road or not? Is it any wonder that deaths on country roads are so high, the attitude seems to be that laws are something for city people.

layke

kbannon wrote:

A P licence lasts for two years. The test waiting list is about half this (Raheny @ 60 weeks seems to be the longest wait).

I applied for Rathgar when I did my test after reading the above. The reality was somewhat different with a 90 day wait.

Carb

Anan1 wrote:

Insurance is based on risk. If another company thought they could turn a decent profit on selling you cheaper insurance then they would do it. Younger people claim more, therefore they pay more.

So why do the insurance companies make their highest surpluses on provisional licence holders permiums

maidhc

ninja900 wrote:

So we should let dangerous drivers on the road if we feel sorry for them? Sorry, I can't accept this. Either they're safe enough to be on the roads or they are not. Why bother with medical examinations at all - or should where you live determine whether you are allowed on the road or not? Is it any wonder that deaths on country roads are so high, the attitude seems to be that laws are something for city people.

I'm merely saying there are other kinds of drivers that should be "looked after" before kicking the grannies off the road. Unisured foreign drivers, people with undeclared "mods", banned drivers, drink drivers, uninsured drivers are all more worthy of the limited resource that is Garda time.

Hagar

kbannon wrote:

A P licence lasts for two years. The test waiting list is about half this (Raheny @ 60 weeks seems to be the longest wait).

My apologies, I'm a bit out of touch. Does that really mean someone can drive for six years on three consecutive provisional licences without passing a test? That's worse than I imagined. Much worse.:eek:

Stark

And it's worse than that again, a person can drive a lifetime without passing a test You aren't limited to just 3 provisional licences.

Hagar

Thanks bita jayzez I'm in France. At least here they mean to drive on the right hand side of the road.

Anan1

Carb wrote:

So why do the insurance companies make their highest surpluses on provisional licence holders permiums

Do they make a higher percentage surplus on provisional licence holders premiums than on the premiums of full licence holders?

Supercell

Hagar wrote:

5) If you do your test and fail your current licence is immediately revoked as you have proved yourself unfit to drive. You must apply for a new provisional licence. One will be granted if the waiting list is short enough. As above you will then be issued with a firm test date.

Hmm, the testing sytem is a total lottery imho (why are some counties with pass rates in the 40% range and others in the 60% range?), it would be grossly unfair to implement this. The testers are a law unto themselves as proven by their recent strike action.

I'm all in favour of taking unsafe drivers off the roads, but not with a bludgeon that takes many safe ones off also.

In the UK for example you are allowed have your driving instructor (mother , father, pro instructer etc) in the car during the test.
If you fail, you have someone with a full license backing you up or not as the case may be. Here it's the tester with the power of the Union behind him...guess who looses?!, has anyone ever failed a driving test here and sucessfully appealed it?

The testing system need updating, and the times need to come down for those waiting to be tested if we are to clear the accidants caused by provisional drivers that souldnt be on the road.
Tbh I believe the SUV mothers and mobile talkers are a far greater risk than the L drivers that are actually paying attention to what they are doing on the road.