Prime Time & Management Companies

godtabh

Any one see this last night? Only saw a tiny bit but the basic idea was that management companies were doing the jobs of county council in respect to public areas such as roads, lighting etc.

I know mangement companies also look after buildings so in that respect I wont mind paying managment fees but in regards to the up keep of places that should be taken in charge by the local county councils thats what you pay taxes for isnt it?

What do people think?

quad_red

sorry for the local councils.

It's been lean times recently. After years of corruption that would make Tony Soprano blush, the reins have been tightened in. A malaise of despondency occupies the corridors of power.

What's the fun providing basic services to people? Yeah, raising local charges is fun. But without that extra zest of danger, its all quite mundane really.

Still, its good to see the council in Cork bucking this trend.

godtabh

On the prime time programe it was saying the county coucils recieved €9b in funding.

The county councils make a decent amount from developers in terms of development fees so I dont know why they cant afford to do the works.

I wouldnt feel sorry for county councils becasue from what I've seen dealing with them the money they do get isnt spent correctly.

Recently were I life a section of road was redone then the road was made larger and redone again.

scargill

I bought a new house in Newbridge, Co Kildare last year.
The housing estate is made up of 69 detached houses - there are no apartments in the development. All of the houses are freehold.

I signed contracts about 8 months ago. When I was signing the contracts it was brought to my attention that a management company had been formed and that a fee was required. Paying the Management Company fee was a condition of signing the contracts. They had me over a barrel so I just had to pay over the €400. (larger houses on the estate are paying €550). I was under pressure to get into the house so I didn't have time to quarrel over it. I'm sure everyone moving house is in the same position !

I don't agree with the idea of a management company. In the previous estate I lived in there was a Residents Association. (I was on the committee)
There were 260 houses - each house paid a fee of €35. This paid for grass cutting, replacing trees, fence repairs, etc. I'd say on average around 70% of residents paid up.

The council paid an annual contribution to the residents association of around €700 (this amount is based on the number of houses in the development).

So we had around €7,000 a year to pay for the upkeep of a large-ish estate. Whatever was left over at the end of the year was used to organise a kids party at Christmas. (which was normally around €500)

The management company in the new estate are going to be getting over €30,000 a year to maintain a smaller estate !!

I'm not sure what to do when the fee is due again in November. If I don't pay it what can they do ? They can hardly evict me !!

Is anyone else here in a similar situation ?

bullrunner

while i fully agree with you on not wanting to pay (ridiculous) mgmt fees....if you have signed a contract and refuse to pay up they can bring you to court..sue and claim damages/interest on unpaid fees.

Interesting to see that the Labour party brought out a leaflet in the past few days that set out householders rights in relation to mgmt fees (if anybody has this can they please post?)


Basically from what I can see the only way to ensure not paying astronomical fees is for the residents to vote themselves into charge of the mgmt company (whereever possible- not always possible from what I've heard) and remove the current mgmt committe-leaving residents with the sole responsibility/charge of the mgmt co. Means you need people who want to do the job...but also gives control back to the residents.

Sponge Bob

scargill wrote:

I don't agree with the idea of a management company. In the previous estate I lived in there was a Residents Association. (I was on the committee)
There were 260 houses - each house paid a fee of €35. This paid for grass cutting, replacing trees, fence repairs, etc. I'd say on average around 70% of residents paid up.

1. join the company and cut the costs by engaging that way you are a shareholder in that company and have a vote
2. lobby council to take the estate in charge (takes 3-5 years from completion)
3. wind it up and have a big party

godtabh

scargill wrote:

I bought a new house in Newbridge, Co Kildare last year.
The housing estate is made up of 69 detached houses - there are no apartments in the development. All of the houses are freehold.

I signed contracts about 8 months ago. When I was signing the contracts it was brought to my attention that a management company had been formed and that a fee was required. Paying the Management Company fee was a condition of signing the contracts. They had me over a barrel so I just had to pay over the €400. (larger houses on the estate are paying €550). I was under pressure to get into the house so I didn't have time to quarrel over it. I'm sure everyone moving house is in the same position !

I don't agree with the idea of a management company. In the previous estate I lived in there was a Residents Association. (I was on the committee)
There were 260 houses - each house paid a fee of €35. This paid for grass cutting, replacing trees, fence repairs, etc. I'd say on average around 70% of residents paid up.

The council paid an annual contribution to the residents association of around €700 (this amount is based on the number of houses in the development).

So we had around €7,000 a year to pay for the upkeep of a large-ish estate. Whatever was left over at the end of the year was used to organise a kids party at Christmas. (which was normally around €500)

The management company in the new estate are going to be getting over €30,000 a year to maintain a smaller estate !!

I'm not sure what to do when the fee is due again in November. If I don't pay it what can they do ? They can hardly evict me !!

Is anyone else here in a similar situation ?

I think thats a brillant way to go but it doesnt work for all developments i.e flats.

My managment fees include the up keep of lights roads etc which I dont think is right but again I had no choice if I want to buy the place. So what can you do except get your self on the managment company board which is not always possible a stated!

babaduck

In Wicklow & Wexford it's nigh impossible to get the County Council/Town Council to take estates in charge. Most granted plannings have a clause demanding the establishment of management companies - no MC, no planning.

Wexford let one slip by with no requirement for a MC, but I've been battling like a lunatic trying to get them to take the estate in charge. They are coming up with every excuse in the book to dodge - the last request for information wanted to know the make & dimensions of all the pipes - even though they were clearly highlighted on the as built drawings!

In other developments where MC's exist, they cover insurance, public lighting, sewage treatment, signage at the entrance, & grounds maintenance. The current fee covers all of that spend & leaves a small amount in the sinking fund.

Where I live, there is no MC & Wicklow CC haven't taken an estate in charge in 20 years. A residents committee was established & fair play to them, they work damn hard on a voluntary basis to keep the estate nice. All they ask for is €50 per house per year to cover grass cutting... and some of the lazy-ass owners refuse on the grounds that "I work all week & never look at the grass". It's disgraceful & at least if a MC was established, they would be forced to cough up.

godtabh

babaduck wrote:

and some of the lazy-ass owners refuse on the grounds that "I work all week & never look at the grass". It's disgraceful & at least if a MC was established, they would be forced to cough up.

You'll always get some pr!cks like that.

As I said before I think its a good idea what your estate is doing.

Is there any law or legal requirement where and when a management company should be set up?

gazzer

It's disgraceful & at least if a MC was established, they would be forced to cough up.

In Castlecurragh (which was featured on Prime Time) out of the 740 + units on the estates (mainly houses) only residents of 240 units paid their management fees...

aphex™

The Dept of Environment recently directed county councils that planning permission for new estates should not usually include a provision for a management company. There was a circular sent out to local authorities about this.

From the Minister of environment:

This circular tells planning authorities that under no circumstances should they require the establishment of a management company for a ‘traditional’ housing estate other than in very limited specific circumstances e.g. for the maintenance of a private shared facility

The_Conductor

One of the biggest problems at present is that in most cases it is stipulated that only the owners of properties can be members of management companies. While this is fine in theory- in a lot of cases there can be complexes where very few of the properties are owner occuppied- and where the primary aim of the owners, as members of the management company, is to minimise their annual expenditure in the complex. The fact that they can write off their annual management charges against their rental income does not enter the equation. So you have many apartment complexes becoming more and more delapidated, with their management companies ham-strung without sink-funds to pay for necessary on-going repairs.

Management companies are going to feature in peoples hate lists a whole lot more prominently in a few years time- when structural works/painting etc have to be done.......

godtabh

smccarrick wrote:

One of the biggest problems at present is that in most cases it is stipulated that only the owners of properties can be members of management companies. While this is fine in theory- in a lot of cases there can be complexes where very few of the properties are owner occuppied- and where the primary aim of the owners, as members of the management company, is to minimise their annual expenditure in the complex. The fact that they can write off their annual management charges against their rental income does not enter the equation. So you have many apartment complexes becoming more and more delapidated, with their management companies ham-strung without sink-funds to pay for necessary on-going repairs.

Management companies are going to feature in peoples hate lists a whole lot more prominently in a few years time- when structural works/painting etc have to be done.......

Would management companies have insurnace policies against things like structural faults etc? Or would remedial works not be covered under this?

As for not paying up is there any way of forcing people to pay? I've no problem paying my management fees as long as I get value for money i.e things are done in a resonable manner so I feel its a two way system.

The_Conductor

kearnsr wrote:

Would management companies have insurnace policies against things like structural faults etc? Or would remedial works not be covered under this?

As for not paying up is there any way of forcing people to pay? I've no problem paying my management fees as long as I get value for money i.e things are done in a resonable manner so I feel its a two way system.

Structural faults- no. They would be covered under the builders indemnity (I think there is a 9 year indemnity in place as normal- correct me if I'm wrong someone).

As for not paying- well, most of the places these management companies are in are no freehold properties- they are extended leases (my townhouse has a 900 year lease for example). Legally the management company could (but would be extremely unlikely to) void the lease if the tenant (the owner of the property in this case is referred to as a tenant) is found to be in breach of the terms of his/her lease. Far more likely would be a lien placed on the property which would have to be legally satisfied before the current owner could sell it. At the end of the day, if its small money, it may not be worth going to all that trouble. Small money adds up though..... a management fee of 2.5k (not unusual) if not paid on an ongoing basis could add up to something astronomical very quickly.

Victor

smccarrick wrote:

Structural faults- no. They would be covered under the builders indemnity (I think there is a 9 year indemnity in place as normal- correct me if I'm wrong someone).

Typically a developer or contractor is responsible for patent (obvious) defects for a period of 1 to 2 years. Homebond covers latent (hidden) defects of a serious nature up to 10 years. In addition, latent defects have a 6 year statute of limitations when the contract is under hand (i.e. contract signed) or 12 years under seal
(i.e. contract sealed by the firm).