Fox Trouble

Whizzo

Hi,
We had a fox attack our chickens on Sunday morning kiling one of the cockrels. Two nights ago I was woken up by the noise of the chcikens again, going nuts due to a fox in the yard.
I want to get rid of the fox, I'll be using a .22 and have no problems regarding houses nearby. Whats the best method of attracting him into my sights!
Thanks

Terrier

Whizzo wrote:

Hi,
We had a fox attack our chickens on Sunday morning kiling one of the cockrels. Two nights ago I was woken up by the noise of the chcikens again, going nuts due to a fox in the yard.
I want to get rid of the fox, I'll be using a .22 and have no problems regarding houses nearby. Whats the best method of attracting him into my sights!
Thanks

For a one of job like this i'd stick to the old method of rubbing aeroboard against glass, creates a loud squealing noise.. should attract him close.

Another farmer trick is to put chicken remains under a metal dustbin lid so when the fox moves it they hear him and can deal with it accordingly.

You could always set snares at night around the chicken pen if you do not have any dogs or pets

Good Luck

Clare gunner

Although with snares ,you want to really know what you are doing to produce a very quick kill.Never seen anyones set up with snares including a spring pole [where it can be done] or a drag weight.Even the fox despite being vermin deserves a quick death.

newby.204

Shoot a rabbit, skin him up leave him for the fox, tied up so it takes him awhile to get at it, sit up with your lamp and rifle.


BANG, no fox problem

Im not a fan of snares, however its your livelyhood, and CG is right a quick death is deserved vermin or not!!! IMO

Vegeta

is there any sort of fox poison??

People may say oh that's cruel etc etc but we its used on rats the whole time. And in my view an animal is an animal

Clare gunner

Nothing thats very humane and quick acting Veg,
Then you are into having to put up notices that your land is poisioned on the property,and in the local paper,so dog owners are alerted.And then the local antis have somthing to moan about that poor foxy woxy is being persecuted again:rolleyes: Lead poisioning by 000 buck is the best by far.

Vegeta

Clare gunner wrote:

Nothing thats very humane and quick acting Veg,
Then you are into having to put up notices that your land is poisioned on the property,and in the local paper,so dog owners are alerted.And then the local antis have somthing to moan about that poor foxy woxy is being persecuted again:rolleyes: Lead poisioning by 000 buck is the best by far.

i was mainly thinking poison meat in a bucket or something like that rather than a widespread thing.

Nice one about the lead poisoning

kowloon

Im having the same problem, fox killed all of my birds barring eggs that were in the incubator, applied for a shotgun, still havent got the license, hoping at this stage its just because the gardai are trying to save me a few quid by waiting for next license year
either way i have 21 fully feathered chickens and the roosters will tear each other to pieces unless i can uncage them for a while (the night area is meshed but they go mental during the day).

Anyone know if they do this? should i call and see what the story is?
Will i need to resort to kung fu to teach the red dog a lesson in ultimate pain?

Vegeta

kowloon wrote:

Im having the same problem, fox killed all of my birds barring eggs that were in the incubator, applied for a shotgun, still havent got the license, hoping at this stage its just because the gardai are trying to save me a few quid by waiting for next license year
either way i have 21 fully feathered chickens and the roosters will tear each other to pieces unless i can uncage them for a while (the night area is meshed but they go mental during the day).

Anyone know if they do this? should i call and see what the story is?
Will i need to resort to kung fu to teach the red dog a lesson in ultimate pain?

.
the garda definitely do that as it happened to me, you could ask a shooter you know to shoot the fox for you

hell if i live near you i'll do it, i'm from clare

TomBeckett

Whizzo wrote:

Hi,
We had a fox attack our chickens on Sunday morning kiling one of the cockrels. Two nights ago I was woken up by the noise of the chcikens again, going nuts due to a fox in the yard.
I want to get rid of the fox, I'll be using a .22 and have no problems regarding houses nearby. Whats the best method of attracting him into my sights!
Thanks

You say that you will be using a .22???
If it is .22lr do not shoot the fox with it because it is not powerfull enough.
your rifle will need to be at least a .22 hornet to shoot a fox cleanly.
if you are planing on getting the fox up close then you could use a shotgun with bb's ore 00 buckshot.

Clare gunner

If he uses hyper velocity ammo like CCI stingers,and can place clean shots within 30 meters,it should be a clean kill.Have dropped a couple myself with a 22,cos thats all I had at the time.Can be done,but not recommended.

Umiq88

.22lr is fine for foxes just has a shorter range thats all i mean shooting a fox at 50 yards with a .22lr should be like shooting a fox at 350 yards with a .223

Rovi

psittacosis wrote:

.22lr is fine for foxes just has a shorter range thats all i mean shooting a fox at 50 yards with a .22lr should be like shooting a fox at 350 yards with a .223

Not exactly...
According to my "Bumper Book o'Bullets" (Ammo & Ballistics II - http://tinyurl.com/kxal6), a hard hitting .22LR like the CCI 40gr Velociter Hollow Point will be packing around 136Ft-lbs of energy at 50 yards, while even a relatively modest .223 varmint round like the Remington 55gr Pointed Soft Point is doing around 400Ft-lbs at 350 yards, and only gets down to 143Ft-lbs waaaay out there at 600 yards.
Discounting the ludicrous range, it's still packing more punch at 500 yards than the Velociter is at the muzzle (195Ft-lbs vs. 183Ft-lbs).

That said, many's the fox that's fallen to the .22LR, it just demands very precise bullet placement to ensure a clean kill.
If a .223 or similar varmint rifle isn't an option, buckshot is probably a more humane option at that sort of range, in my opinion.

maglite

a therooetical Q if you 5 velocitors in the body of the fox in quick sucession will it knock him?

Rovi

maglite wrote:

a therooetical Q if you 5 velocitors in the body of the fox in quick sucession will it knock him?

Undoubtedly, but it would be an extraordinarily unethical thing to attempt.
One will kill him, but unless it's somewhere vital (brain/spinal column, or heart/lungs), he'll be dying of shock, infection, or starvation in a hole somewhere.
Assuming we're using a semi-auto here, lobbing four follow-up shots into (or much more likely, 'in the general direction of') a wounded fox is not the sort of strategy I'd be planning on before heading out to hunt.

newby.204

The op says he needs to take care of a fox, i think imo that a BB and a lend of/use of a shotgun would be best at that range, imo i agree with Rovi and you shouldnt use a .22,

unless a headshot is 100% garaunteed!

Clare gunner

maglite wrote:

a therooetical Q if you 5 velocitors in the body of the fox in quick sucession will it knock him?

Hell! That will do in a human as well,not to mind a fox!!!
BTW there is the legal trouble of borrowing a shotgun on your rifle lic, or vise versa and all the BS paperwork that goes with that here.:( Another reason that liscensing the man and not the gun should have been introduced.

thelurcher

I know this is a shooting forum so the answers will be biased but the best way to finish the fox would be to get somone you know with a decent terrier - find the earth and dig it - cubs are good and strong now obviously but chances are you'll clean out the litter anyway - so no trouble down the line for a while.
Most won't dig this time of year but if it's a troublesome fox they'd be no bother.
Could also call it in for a lurcher on the lamp.

Either way there's no fear of wounding - you either kill it or it gets away in tact.

PAIMEI

Good man thelurcher, no fancy velocity questions, go straight to source and solve the problem once and for the all, and its the most humane and effective method of vermin control too.

newby.204

PAIMEI wrote:

Good man thelurcher, no fancy velocity questions, go straight to source and solve the problem once and for the all, and its the most humane and effective method of vermin control too.

Have never gone digging never would, I shoot as a matter of skill/sport, i see NO sport in that lads, i have a personal problem with digging as well as snares etc, however seen as it is his livelyhood any means necessary i guess.

17REM

newby.204 wrote:

Have never gone digging never would, I shoot as a matter of skill/sport, i see NO sport in that lads, i have a personal problem with digging as well as snares etc, however seen as it is his livelyhood any means necessary i guess.

how do u know if u have never done so? hell of alot of skill involved an alot of enjoyment finally trapping that sneaky fox u have been after, terriers and lurchers kill very quickly.

newby.204

17REM wrote:

how do u know if u have never done so? hell of alot of skill involved an alot of enjoyment finally trapping that sneaky fox u have been after, terriers and lurchers kill very quickly.

Its just a personal dislike of it thats all, im not a nut who hates people who do it or anything, each to his own, i just dont want to try it, doesnt interest me in the slightest. IMO, so no come backs/smart remarks, i cant see a terrier/lurcher killing quicker than say a .22 hornet, well placed obviously.

However this is all off topic, the OP wnats to know bout gettin that pesky madra rua??

Still think, at that range, BB is the way IMO

thelurcher

Hi newby.204 - the only thing that was really off topic was that you gave your unhelpfull personal opinion on a genuine and highly effective solution to the guys problem.
If you gave reasons why a gun is more effective than using a terrier or a lurcher - for example - then that would be different.

You recommend using BB's on the fox - does it take lot of skill to shoot a fox with them :rolleyes:
Is it really sporting
The spread on them is brutal - and at the range you need to call the fox into - it would make for a perfect slip of the lurcher.

I'd love to hear your definition of 'sporting' - what makes shooting more sporting
Is it that the fox has a better chance of getting away when you're behind the trigger

Sparks

what makes shooting more sporting?

Whatever about being more sporting or not, it is more pertinent - this is the shooting forum, not the fox control forum after all!

thelurcher

I acknowledged that in my first post on this thread Sparks - but thanks for reminding me :rolleyes:

Whizzo says 'I want to get rid of the fox' - I'm giving him advice on what I consider to be the most effective, tried and trusted method of fox control.

Or should I lie to him

Vegeta

I have nothing against digging but i can see where newby is coming from, i personally would prefer to shoot them but that's cos i like shooting.

If you are looking for a bit of sport then shooting them is definitely the way to go.

If you are looking to control the fox population then digging will be more effective

Sparks

Whizzo asked how to lure a fox to a point where he could get off a safe shot, lurcher. Not how to get rid of one.

thelurcher

I follow hounds as well Vegeta and since some people with the various packs know that I also shoot I get a lot of hassle about how unsporting the use of a gun on a fox is

There must be somthing wrong with me because I get great sport from both :rolleyes:

Now I am going off topic.

Vegeta

thelurcher wrote:

I follow hounds as well Vegeta and since some people with the various packs know that I also shoot I get a lot of hassle about how unsporting the use of a gun on a fox is

There must be somthing wrong with me because I get great sport from both :rolleyes:

Now I am going off topic.

Well at the risk of going even further off toic. Or maybe this can reflect the inner debate the OP will have when he reads our opinions.

I see no sport in digging as all the man does is dig the whole and the dog goes to work. As you said extremely effective and I respect any man who takes an interest in country and game sports. Good sport for the dog but its a bit of a spectator sport for the man in my questionable opinion.

Where as shooting has a more direct relationship with the death of the fox, i think it takes more skill to put a round through a vital organ. Again this is my opinion and I have only been digging once after we failed to shoot the fox first.

PAIMEI

I dont dig myself, but I would love to have the skill, the time and the dogs to do it, its by far the most effective method of fox control. I've been on fox shoots where we've dug foxes that have gone to ground, purely because its a vermin control action we're taking. I think its a bit naive to say I dont agree with digging but I'll shoot a fox. I think you need to ask what your aim is when setting out to kill a fox, is it to control the fox population and thus increase game or is it for the skill of the individual shot. I for one shoot foxes to control their numbers, if theres a more effective method I'd use it and in my opinion digging is that method. Apologies for going off topic.

newby.204

PAIMEI wrote:

I dont dig myself, but I would love to have the skill, the time and the dogs to do it, its by far the most effective method of fox control. I've been on fox shoots where we've dug foxes that have gone to ground, purely because its a vermin control action we're taking. I think its a bit naive to say I dont agree with digging but I'll shoot a fox. I think you need to ask what your aim is when setting out to kill a fox, is it to control the fox population and thus increase game or is it for the skill of the individual shot. I for one shoot foxes to control their numbers, if theres a more effective method I'd use it and in my opinion digging is that method. Apologies for going off topic.

My answer is in your statement Paimei,
To the lurcher well as im new there is a chance that the fox might get away, i also said in a previous post that seen as its his livelyhood that maybe digging might be the most effective. I just personally dont like it.

In relation to the naive, wont dig a fox but ill shoot one comment,
i dont want an argument as this is only MY OPINION i believe that a well placed bullet/cartridge is a more humane method of dispatching a fox personally.

And for the smart arses who dig through previous posts, i have only been shooting foxes with shotguns recently as i previously had seen BB's used to little effect until now

thelurcher

Vegeta: like anything when you try to do it yourself and do it correctly you will realise what it takes:
- Breeding - you can't buy a good dog off the shelf - I won't get into it but it's not a case of grabbing the neighbours yorkie and heading off. Most line bread working terriers have pedigrees going back longer than many show breeds.
ITS ALL IN THE BREEDING!
- Can the earth be dug - you don't want to stick your terrier into a dungeon everyone can get caught out but experience helps - or it could be sandy.
- You have to choose the right dog for the earth or game.
- You have to have your dog in good condition.

- Even when you enter the dog you must be able to tell when you're dog is 'on'.
- Give it time to settle - how long?
- You have to be able to read your dog - could be no-one home or did he try it properly.
- You have to be able to locate your dog - not rocket science with modern locaters but they do fail - and I've seen retards using a bar that are only asking to spear the terrier.
- When you break through is when newbies usually feck thing up - half smoothering the dog - yanking it off the game etc.

- what if things go wrong and the dog appears at the mouth of the burrow - is he a plug and had enough etc etc.............


If I was to look at shooting the way you've looked at terrier work:
- Buy gun from shop.
- Mount scope.
- Zero.
- Extend bi-pod.
- Pull trigger.
- Kill vixen with half reared cubs that go off and terrorise every farmyard in the parish!

Vegeta

thelurcher wrote:

Vegeta: like anything when you try to do it yourself and do it correctly you will realise what it takes:
- Breeding - you can't buy a good dog off the shelf - I won't get into it but it's not a case of grabbing the neighbours yorkie and heading off. Most line bread working terriers have pedigrees going back longer than many show breeds.
ITS ALL IN THE BREEDING!
- Can the earth be dug - you don't want to stick your terrier into a dungeon everyone can get caught out but experience helps - or it could be sandy.
- You have to choose the right dog for the earth or game.
- You have to have your dog in good condition.

- Even when you enter the dog you must be able to tell when you're dog is 'on'.
- Give it time to settle - how long?
- You have to be able to read your dog - could be no-one home or did he try it properly.
- You have to be able to locate your dog - not rocket science with modern locaters but they do fail - and I've seen retards using a bar that are only asking to spear the terrier.
- When you break through is when newbies usually feck thing up - half smoothering the dog - yanking it off the game etc.

- what if things go wrong and the dog appears at the mouth of the burrow - is he a plug and had enough etc etc.............


If I was to look at shooting the way you've looked at terrier work:
- Buy gun from shop.
- Mount scope.
- Zero.
- Extend bi-pod.
- Pull trigger.
- Kill vixen with half reared cubs that go off and terrorise every farmyard in the parish!

again if you like digging fancy holes and breeding dogs fair enough. As i said i don't find anything of interest there. Its not for me. I didn't slag it. Why the need to defend it?

PAIMEI

Apologies if I seemed argumentative but I am simply trying to make a point that the countryside sports are under threat enough already without fellow hunters taking moral stand points. I believe that killing a fox is killing a fox, they do damage to livestock and gamebirds, granted a clean rifle kill is as humane a way as any to kill, but wiping out an entire litter and vixen is extremely effective in controlling their numbers. I think if you're defending your sport to a lay man, controlling numbers by the most effective method possible is the easiest to defend.

Sparks

PAIMEI, noone took any stand against digging except to say that it's not shooting and this is the shooting forum.

I think if you're defending your sport to a lay man, controlling numbers by the most effective method possible is the easiest to defend.

Nuke the site from orbit?

Rovi

Sparks wrote:

Nuke the site from orbit?

It's the only way to be sure.

PAIMEI

Newby said he has a personal dislike for digging and that he saw no sport in it. I dont dig myself so I'm not really interested in a whats wrong whats right argument, I'll have my opinion and you have yours. I do find it strange however that Newby has no problem with shooting a fox but dislikes digging, at the end of the day what you'll end up with is a dead fox. Its a matter of respecting all country sports, it might not be your piece of cake but if we all go around saying my way is best and you shouldnt be doing yours eventually we'll end up with no country sports, I know this might sound extreme but this country and the countryside is changing, critising another mans sport when you shoot yourself is just fuelling the fires for the antis.
On the shooting forum aspect, surely vermin control is an essential part of a shooting mans outlook, there'd be nothing left to shoot except clays and targets if we simply let vermin run riot.

Sparks

if we all go around saying my way is best and you shouldnt be doing yours

Hold up there Paimei. Noone said that. Newby said he didn't want to do so himself. That's fair. It was said by a few of us that it didn't really apply to shooting foxes, and that's just logical. But nobody said that it should be banned. It's just that it's like discussing cropdusting in a forum written for windowsill herb growing.

there'd be nothing left to shoot except clays and targets if we simply let vermin run riot

Ahem. Was that you dissing target shooting in favour of hunting and vermin control?

PAIMEI

The first quote you used is taken out of context, I never accused anyone of preaching on about their prefered method, I was trying to make the point that if you're into shooting and you kill foxes why have a hang up about one method over another. I dont mind that you dislike digging but I just find it strange that Newby has no problem shooting a fox but says of digging

"I just personally dont like it."

"Have never gone digging never would, I shoot as a matter of skill/sport, i see NO sport in that lads, i have a personal problem with digging as well as snares etc, however seen as it is his livelyhood any means necessary i guess."

I mean if you look at it from a lay persons view, if you're killing foxes by any means and you're doing it for vermin control I believe you're fully justified, if however you shooting foxes purely for your own skill/sport and not as a vermin control measure you're open to critisism of your sport, I mean I'm not trying to convince Newby to take up digging I'm simply saying that as an end product the fox ends up dead, so why have such a dislike to one method.

Vegeta

PAIMEI wrote:

The first quote you used is taken out of context, I never accused anyone of preaching on about their prefered method, I was trying to make the point that if you're into shooting and you kill foxes why have a hang up about one method over another. I dont mind that you dislike digging but I just find it strange that Newby has no problem shooting a fox but says of digging

"I just personally dont like it."

"Have never gone digging never would, I shoot as a matter of skill/sport, i see NO sport in that lads, i have a personal problem with digging as well as snares etc, however seen as it is his livelyhood any means necessary i guess."

I mean if you look at it from a lay persons view, if you're killing foxes by any means and you're doing it for vermin control I believe you're fully justified, if however you shooting foxes purely for your own skill/sport and not as a vermin control measure you're open to critisism of your sport, I mean I'm not trying to convince Newby to take up digging I'm simply saying that as an end product the fox ends up dead, so why have such a dislike to one method.

Well some people like the act of shooting itself, doesn't matter what the quarry. Well by that reasoning no one would shoot fox at all, we'd all down guns and buy dogs with tracking collars.

Some people like shooting. Its the shooting itself that they enjoy. It is a bonus if you control the vermin population a bit too. That's my view on it anyway. I'd get the same buzz if the fox was a robot that performed in the exact same manner as a fox. Its not the taking if the life its the hunt and practice needed to be capable of shooting one.

Digging is very effective, it works and it is skilled work. If I had a problem with fox numbers i would do it definitely but i'd take no pleasure in it, hence why i say its not much sport for me. I'd be satisfied yes that the fox numbers were down, but i would not enjoy the task.

If you look at hurling, a very skilled game you'll agree and I respect the hurlers for what they can do and are doing. But i don't like playing hurling, its as simple as that.

PAIMEI

I'm not making much of a fist at getting my point across, basically what I'm getting at is that I really think that no shooter/hunter should critisise anothers sport, OK if you dislike it or disagree with it, but you enjoy the sport of shooting/hunting yourself. I just think there's enough antis out there without shooters/hunters making comment on their fellow shooters/hunters sport. We might make big distinctions between the terrier man, the lamping man the duck shooter, but to your run of the mill anti we're all blood sports enthusiasts.

Vegeta

PAIMEI wrote:

I'm not making much of a fist at getting my point across, basically what I'm getting at is that I really think that no shooter/hunter should critisise anothers sport, OK if you dislike it or disagree with it, but you enjoy the sport of shooting/hunting yourself. I just think there's enough antis out there without shooters/hunters making comment on their fellow shooters/hunters sport. We might make big distinctions between the terrier man, the lamping man the duck shooter, but to your run of the mill anti we're all blood sports enthusiasts.

i get what you're saying cos as soon as we lose one aspect of shooting/hunting the others may eventually follow

newby.204

PAIMEI wrote:

The first quote you used is taken out of context, I never accused anyone of preaching on about their prefered method, I was trying to make the point that if you're into shooting and you kill foxes why have a hang up about one method over another. I dont mind that you dislike digging but I just find it strange that Newby has no problem shooting a fox but says of digging

"I just personally dont like it."

"Have never gone digging never would, I shoot as a matter of skill/sport, i see NO sport in that lads, i have a personal problem with digging as well as snares etc, however seen as it is his livelyhood any means necessary i guess."

I mean if you look at it from a lay persons view, if you're killing foxes by any means and you're doing it for vermin control I believe you're fully justified, if however you shooting foxes purely for your own skill/sport and not as a vermin control measure you're open to critisism of your sport, I mean I'm not trying to convince Newby to take up digging I'm simply saying that as an end product the fox ends up dead, so why have such a dislike to one method.

Im not attacking the sport, my apologies if that is the way it was taken.
I shoot because i enjoy the "shot".

I.E. when you take the fox at 200yrds with 10mph wind at dusk with a well placed .22 hornet

*You dig, *as in paople who go digging, i assume, because you enjoy the hunt and the other aspects involved, i have no experience with digging so i wont speak on it. And when you find the foxhole you dispatch the fox/litter by terrier/lurcher. If this is your sport fair enough each to his own.

Finally if this fox has killed 20 chickens at the end of the day this is his livelyhood, as ive said before, and maybe dispatching with the fox/litter would be best and good foresight. However personally id still grab my O/U one of my heavy load cartridges or my freind and his rifle and dispatch with the fox that way.

PAIMEI

Its difficult not to sound argumentative sometimes. Vegeta has me right though, I think we have to defend our sports enough to non-hunters/shooters without having to defend it each other.

Whizzo

Wowzers! Hot debate here.
Just an update, sat out on the patio at 5am (the same time the red lad showed his face last) with the polestyrene against the glass on the conservatory and the rifle on the table.....no sign! Since then I've put a snare along a track and I've been checking 2-3 times/day, no luck. Went down the old wives front of pissing around the hen enclosure and putting hair around the outside of the hen house ( i have one of those trimmers and had just cut my hair - not for this purpose:D )

So anywhoo, I have both 12g and .22LR, I wouldn't know where to start re digging and shooting would be my choice of dispatch. I've also been asked to help rid our GC pheasant pens of foxes. Can you tell me what would be the best brand of .22LR bullets for the job.

Terrier

Whizzo wrote:

Can you tell me what would be the best brand of .22LR bullets for the job.

40gr CCI Velocitor is the hardest hitting 22 round I have used.
(Not a fan of using .22LR on Foxes)

Terrier

Whizzo wrote:

Hi,
We had a fox attack our chickens on Sunday morning kiling one of the cockrels. Two nights ago I was woken up by the noise of the chcikens again, going nuts due to a fox in the yard.
I want to get rid of the fox, I'll be using a .22 and have no problems regarding houses nearby. Whats the best method of attracting him into my sights!
Thanks

Whizzo,
Did you ever manage to get this Fox?