Toyota Prius - it has been about 3 years now - any track record

Balfa

colm_mcm wrote:

the beauty of hybrids is that they reduce urban air and noise pollution.

Oh my god, they reduce air in urban areas?? Shockin'!


By the way, various associations for the blind are lobbying toyota to stick fake "vroom vroom" noises on the prius (er, for safety reasons, obviously). It is kind of eerie how they roll along silently, but I like it

colm_mcm

Balfa wrote:

Oh my god, they reduce air in urban areas?? Shockin'!


By the way, various associations for the blind are lobbying toyota to stick fake "vroom vroom" noises on the prius (er, for safety reasons, obviously). It is kind of eerie how they roll along silently, but I like it

maybe various associations for the blind should have convinced me to throw some more punctuation in there, I can understand it perfectly, but obviously people with impaired vision are having trouble

galwaytt

not just Prius. I was at the bike show on Fri eve, and the guy on the Vectrix electric scooter was having a hell of a time getting through crowd.....no sound, see..........imagine a busy street with buses, etc around, then we can blame the Greens for the increase in pedestrian fatalities.........

If, however, he'd been trying to maneouvre my Road King..........I can assure you it would have been like the parting of the Red Sea for Moses...........:D Loud Pipes Save Lives......;)

....which is no doubt why all the new supercars have 'active' exhausts.......trying to re-kindle some sense of soul.

And a colleagues did 200k on 2 1.9 Multijet Fiats..........and absolutely no repairs, so I'm not wearing the Toyota High Moral Ground thing in that front, either......

Interesting hijacks on the OP's original question though !!

gyppo

No one has mentioned the batteries in these damn yokes.

1 How long will they last for?
2 How much will they cost to replace? (loadza money, i would think)
3 How much will they cost to dispose? (see ^^ )

Then, look at resale in 5 years time, when its likely that the battery system will need replacing - I wonder what the resale value will be?

galwaytt

gyppo wrote:

No one has mentioned the batteries in these damn yokes.

1 How long will they last for?
2 How much will they cost to replace? (loadza money, i would think)
3 How much will they cost to dispose? (see ^^ )

Then, look at resale in 5 years time, when its likely that the battery system will need replacing - I wonder what the resale value will be?

Colm_mcm should have the exact answers, but......at a guess
1 - 10 years max
2 - I heard a vicious rumour of 5k
3 - They'd better be taking the old ones f.o.c based on 2).........

Resale - exactly ! And, if you add all these costs, have you saved the planet anything at all............?

Finally, did you get a quote on the Prius for insurance - they used to cost more than a Corolla, due to cost of repairs..........

Seth Brundle

sent to toyota.ie...

Can you tell me what kind of lifespan the batteries in the prius (1st and 2nd generations) have?
Can you also tell me how much it costs to replace these (including labour)?
What happens the batteries once they have been replaced?
Thanks

Seth Brundle

Their reply:

Thank you for your enquiry into the Toyota Prius.

The Dry cells batteries in the rear of the Prius provide the power to the electric motor, which in turn drives the road wheels. There is also a conventional wet cell battery in the front of the vehicle that runs the electrics of the car and the petrol engine. The two types of battery differ greatly. Dry cell batteries have a much larger life span than wet cell batteries.

With regards to the life span of the dry cell batteries, the Prius has been present in the Irish market since 1998 and in that time no Prius has had to have their dry cell batteries replaced.

Toyota Ireland disposes of all their used batteries to a recycling company called Return Bat.

The cost of replacing the dry cell batteries in a current generation Prius is €6210 and requires around 2 hrs labour.

Assuring you of our best attention at all times.

We remain
Yours very truly
TOYOTA IRELAND

unkel

Not a single replacement in 9 years - that's pretty impressive. The sample size is small though, being based on Irish sales only. I'd like to know the figure for worldwide sales

Mind, if any one fails, even after say only 9 or 10 years, it is not economically viable to replace the batteries as the car is worth less than the repair bill

I wonder can you (legally) keep driving one without the assistance of the electric motor?

Seth Brundle

Just scanning various prius forums the batteries seem to be doing ok e.g. "the failure rate of Prius HV batteries (after the ostensibly-Japan-only NHW10) is between 1/1000 and 1/10000"

There is a Prius taxi in vancouver with over 240K miles on it and "still no major repairs": http://www.greentaxi.org/testimonials.php

JHMEG

Driving the wife's Civic IMA from Rosslare to Dublin, this is the fuel economy:


Show me ANY similar sized diesel car that will get close to that!

The Civic IMA in particular is a great 2nd hand buy from the UK, not just due to the usual UK stuff, but also because:
a) The hybrid/IMA gear is all covered by an 100,000 mile/8 year warranty
b) The spec is excellent (leather as standard etc)
c) The VRT is only 11.25%, making it cheaper than a petrol only 1.4 Civic
d) After 3 years it will cost little more to buy in the UK than a 1.6

Oh, and as for the Japs not being class leaders in Diesel: International Engine of The Year Awards 2005: Best 2-litre to 2.5-litre: Honda 2.2-litre Diesel (Accord, CR-V, FR-V). Top ranking Diesel again in its class in 2006, followed by Toyota's 2.2 D-4D.

maidhc

JHMEG wrote:

Show me ANY similar sized diesel car that will get close to that!

The Audi A2 1.4 TDi isn't far off I'd imagine.

I get about 52 from my Focus with standard commuting. It edges towards 60 on long journeys.

I think you can count on one hand the number of Prius sold in Ireland prior to the second generation coming out.

JHMEG

maidhc wrote:

The Audi A2 1.4 TDi isn't far off I'd imagine.

A2 isn't a similar sized car.

Oh, and did I mention 74mpg on the motorway, and 52mpg in rush hour Dublin stop-start traffic?

.Longshanks.

....Just thought i'd throw this in;
My 1.3CDTi Astra gives me a combined cycle of 58-59 mpg - i worked it 3 or 4 different times over the past 2 months. 60- 70% of that on the motorway with the rest in town.

Altreab

leeroybrown wrote:

If I recall correctly the lack of diesel uptake has resulted in the quality of diesel fuel in the US being far lower than here and probably unsuited to a lot of modern engines. I think they are starting to offer proper diesel fuel there now.

This is in fact the reason why no modern diesel engines were on the market in the USA ...until last october when the oil companies were mandated to start supplying ultra low sulphur the sulphur levels in USA diesel would have killed most new diesel engines. Now USA diesel is the cleanest on the market anywhere. It will however take about 5-10 years for americans to realise just how clean and efficient diesel cars are, and to get the mental images of diesel = belching filthy smoke out of their heads. When they do expect them to change to diesel in droves.

gyppo

@JHMEG,

Thats very very impressive.

However, on long journies in the Leon Tdi I used to own, I could get 65/66mpg, and the onboard display was fairly accurate.

Seth Brundle

interesting: http://ideas.4brad.com/node/308

zilog_jones

unkel wrote:

I wonder can you (legally) keep driving one without the assistance of the electric motor?

It wouldn't go very fast if it could. The engine only outputs about 75hp but the car weighs over 1300kg.

JHMEG

zilog_jones wrote:

It wouldn't go very fast if it could. The engine only outputs about 75hp but the car weighs over 1300kg.

Pretty much identical to a 1.4 VW Golf in weight and power.

@unkle: of course you can drive it legally if the battery is dead and motor not working.. it's just like any other petrol car.

JHMEG

gyppo wrote:

@JHMEG,

Thats very very impressive.

However, on long journies in the Leon Tdi I used to own, I could get 65/66mpg, and the onboard display was fairly accurate.

That's impressive in itself, but would maybe compare to a long, constant speed journey in the IMA, which will then do 73-74mpg (eg Dubin to Dundalk on the M1).

maidhc

JHMEG wrote:

Pretty much identical to a 1.4 VW Golf in weight and power.

@unkle: of course you can drive it legally if the battery is dead and motor not working.. it's just like any other petrol car.

The car would probably throw a hissy though. It has an Atkinson cycle engine which needs the electric circuit to make it drivable.

unkel

@JHMEG - doing what, 50km/h in 6th gear? My huge V8 petrol battleship would nearly be as economical in those circumstances

maidhc wrote:

The car would probably throw a hissy though. It has an Atkinson cycle engine which needs the electric circuit to make it drivable.

I'm too simple to understand that. Care to elaborate?

zilog_jones wrote:

It wouldn't go very fast if it could. The engine only outputs about 75hp but the car weighs over 1300kg.

But one could presumably take out the broken batteries and return them to Toyota for recycling. How much weight are they? Surely at least 100KG?

JHMEG

@unkle. Smartass. No your V8 petrol battleship would not ever come remotely close. Unless it was being towed!

Atkinson isn't that too much different to Otto, though it always struck me as odd that Toyota used it in the Prius. Honda kept it simple (Otto) in the Civic IMA. Tho in fairness Honda use 2 spark plugs per cylinder (DSI), and deactivates 3 cylinders (courtesy VTEC) when decelerating.

And no maidhc, the Atkinson cycle engine will not throw any hissy fits. It's a simple enough alternative to Otto. The engine does not depend on the hybrid electrics to operate, as is the case with the IMA.

A good and simple explanation is in Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle

maidhc

JHMEG wrote:

And no maidhc, the Atkinson cycle engine will not throw any hissy fits. It's a simple enough alternative to Otto. The engine does not depend on the hybrid electrics to operate, as is the case with the IMA.

The point is though the Atkinson cycle is well down on torque compared to an engine with a normal camshaft. It also has a rev limit of 4500 RPM, which might be ok with a diesel, but hardly with a petrol.

While that alone wouldn't make the car useless, the strong possibility is the ECU would go ballistic if you tried driving it with dead/removed batteries. E.g. if you only disconnect EGR valve in most cars the faults will start to come in hot and heavy and they will switch to limp home mode... something drastic when you consider the EGR is superfluous at the outset.

The batteries in the Prius are NiMH... humm. They better last longer than they did in my old IBM thinkpad.

overdriver

unkel wrote:

Bollix

Now, now, Unk, no need for that kind of language!
Sorry- couldn't resist -:D

The fact that Asian maufacturers might've copied something surely doesn't mean they're not class leaders now, does it?

Besides which, surely the way forward is cars which are capable of using alternative fuels as well as fossil fuels. if the hybrid techonolgy was incorporated into them too, we'd surely be on the right path. A diesel engine which could burn vege oil and had an electric motor for city driving is something which could be produced now. So why don't they?

JHMEG

maidhc wrote:

While that alone wouldn't make the car useless, the strong possibility is the ECU would go ballistic if you tried driving it with dead/removed batteries. E.g. if you only disconnect EGR valve in most cars the faults will start to come in hot and heavy and they will switch to limp home mode... something drastic when you consider the EGR is superfluous at the outset.

The EGR valve comparison is not relevant: a disconnected EGR valve is not part of normal service. The Civic IMA will run just fine with "dead" batteries, which would be a possibility during normal service. Like you I have no direct experience of the Prius, but I would imagine the Toyota engineers have already thought of such a scenario. I know the Honda engineers have.

maidhc wrote:

The batteries in the Prius are NiMH... humm. They better last longer than they did in my old IBM thinkpad.

Again, completely different scenario, and not comparable.

People have a long history of objecting to new things and new technology. Like mobile phones when they first came out. Then people get direct experience and think "gawd that's great". When you get to drive a hybrid for a while you'll appreciate what they're great at, and how well they do it.

galwaytt

kbannon wrote:

Their reply:

So, the batteries on a 10yr old car will be Eur 6k+. OK, where'd we save the money/planet/whatever??? Oh, I know, we sold it in year 9.........for the next guy to worry about - gawd, some things in the car trade never change !!

So, they've never changed a battery in the years they've been selling them, but they've lined up Return Bat just in case.

And finally, folks, just remember, if you have a Prius, and do need a battery.........it could have been sitting in Toyota Irl's stores for..........9 years !!:D

Hey, - any word on the insurance? Is it still extra on a Hybrid?

An Ri rua

dubtom wrote: »

The toyota d4d isn't up to scratch? compared to what.Who are the class leaders, please don't say mercedes, fiat or ford......... mondeo's sound like tractors, fiat's likewise.

1st of all, FIAT invented the common rail diesel. They are not clattery by any stretxh of the imagination.

2ndly, PSA (Citroen & Peugeot) are the world leaders in diesel technology as applied to everyday economy AND enjoyment. That's why Ford use their technology. And Mitsubishi (building their own shortly). Ford even put the PSA 2.7 V6 HDi into the Jag, its in the Citroen C6 and the Peugeot 407 coupé. Fiat's technology extends to Alfa's Multijet family. Please research more before making silly claims. Until BMWs' 320D engine came out, the number 1 diesel for mpg and performance in its class was the Xantia Hdi 90 or 110 HP. I've had many Peugeots & Citroens and know how good the old TD and new HDi blocks are. I will also tip my cap to the superb Toyota straight diesels, TDs and D4D. Superb! because of the overall design & construction, many hackneys can knock 600,000 miles from these cars. I personally have put up 200,000 on a Xantia TD and just under 200,000 (miles, folks) on a Hdi 90. If you look after these diesels, they are cleaner, more economic and more pleasurable to drive than almost all of the petrol on the market now.

colm_mcm

Did it take you nearly 9 months to come up with that response?