IRA insists Jean McConville was a tout

monosharp

Jackie laughlin wrote:

God, but this thread has been active; I've been reading for ages to catch up!

There has never been a time in the lifetime of Sinn Fein when political violence was justified in this country. The bloody and undemocratic cult of Pearse, Collins etc. with which I grew up contributed to the survival of SF.

And this is why SF are getting more and more votes.

Listening to comments like that make even the most moderate Nationalist/Republican sick. How you can look back on the 1920's and say that anything but the war of Independence was right is beyond me.

Comments like that from people who think we'd be just as well off being part of the UK, the same kind of people who wouldn't have lifted a finger in the 20's against the Brits simply because they didn't care and have no pride in anything or no care in the world for anything except for themselves and theirs and their pockets.

joebhoy1916

But it was common back then for them to lie not just about that about anything even know look at the bank raid. You also have to remember that Sinn Fein back then wasn't like now to be honest it is unfair to call them scum for the simply fact most people in Sinn Fein would not of even be alive back then! Sinn Fein wasn't a party like today they might be the oldes party but back then none of them have experience in politics Sinn Fein never really came into the political seen till the hunger strikes!

Did you ever hear of

I
Ran
Away

Do you know how they got that name many say loyalists but that's not true. I think it was the 1970's british soliders went into Derry and murdered 7 Catholic young lads catholic priests came out and called the IRA that and was saying why weren't the IRA defending there people! Like it or not most back then agreed to what they were doing. If it wasn't for everything the british done there would have been no need for the IRA.

Jackie laughlin

In the early days Arthur Griffith's Sinn Fein was royalist not republican.

British troops were deployed in Northern Ireland to protect Catholics from Protestants and they were welcomed by Catholics. Catholic antipathy to British troops, largely justified, arose out of soldiers' unjustified and downright stupid reactions to being fired upon by the IRA.


If would be flattered to think that anything I said would make a pseudo-nationalist/republican sick. These people don't understand those terms.

For the record, I'm enormously proud of my culture. It's difficult to say but since it's been raised, before 1900 I would have supported the Irish Parliamentary Party. Later I would have joined the Labour Party and argued that the 1918 elections be contested against SF.

Diogenes

joebhoy1916 wrote:

But it was common back then for them to lie not just about that about anything even know look at the bank raid.

So you admit they lie, and you have nothing but their word to go, but you trust implicitly their story about the murder of Jean Mc Conville?

How or why did the British army make her a spy?

How was she discovered in the first place?

What happened to the radio?

Why after she was found out, did the British army continue to use her a spy?

Why, after she was found out the second time did she "refuse" to give up spying for the British army, "forcing" the IRA to execute her?

I mean that story is so riddled with implausibilities I'm surprised it's not plastered all over billboards right now with the words "produced by Jerry Bruckhemier" in big letters.

Combine that with your own admission the IRA lied about her before coming up with this story, and your admission that the IRA are near complusive liars, why do you believe their story?

You also have to remember that Sinn Fein back then wasn't like now to be honest it is unfair to call them scum for the simply fact most people in Sinn Fein would not of even be alive back then!

Still doesn't stop them trying to justify the sins of yesterday, today.

Sinn Fein wasn't a party like today they might be the oldes party but back then none of them have experience in politics Sinn Fein never really came into the political seen till the hunger strikes!

Then they got very very very good very fast. Is the above your opinion or based on fact?

Did you ever hear of

I
Ran
Away

Do you know how they got that name many say loyalists but that's not true. I think it was the 1970's british soliders went into Derry and murdered 7 Catholic young lads catholic priests came out and called the IRA that and was saying why weren't the IRA defending there people! Like it or not most back then agreed to what they were doing. If it wasn't for everything the british done there would have been no need for the IRA.

Don't suppose you can come up with a link for any of the above?

joebhoy1916

Jackie laughlin wrote:

British troops were deployed in Northern Ireland to protect Catholics from Protestants and they were welcomed by Catholics.

LOL. :eek:

And they did a good job too didnt they?

I dont need a link mate if your from Ireland you should of learned it in school. But I will look to prove a point.

Just incase your not from Ireland. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

Jackie laughlin

Joebhoy,
Laugh if you like but it might be better to read some history and look at the archive footage on TV showing the Catholic householders bringing out tea to the British soldiers. The soldiers did an effective job until they were fired on by the IRA and then they behaved disgracefully and stupidly played into the IRA's hands.

The history which I was taught in school was religious, pseudo-nationalist myth making. In short, lies!

joebhoy1916

Jackie laughlin wrote:

Joebhoy,
Laugh if you like but it might be better to read some history and look at the archive footage on TV showing the Catholic householders bringing out tea to the British soldiers. The soldiers did an effective job until they were fired on by the IRA and then they behaved disgracefully and stupidly played into the IRA's hands.

!

Thats bollocks. Ok you are right the catholics welcomed them one reason was because the RUC/loyalists were killing them, burning them out all the rest so they thought the soliders would help what a mistake! I would suggest you do abit of history!

Jackie laughlin wrote:

The history which I was taught in school was religious, pseudo-nationalist myth making. In short, lies!

Oh so now your saying you were tought different in school but now as your getting older your just making up history as you see!

What alot of bull**** im wrong, your teachers were wrong and the history books were all wrong and your right?

Jackie laughlin

Joebhoy,
It'll be hard for you but you are getting near the truth now. The soldiers did protect the Catholics from the loyalist attacks. Then the IRA attacked the soldiers, which from the IRA's warped perspective was a very good tactical move. The British were stupid enough to fall for it!

joebhoy1916

Your reading to much of politics.ie

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/sutton/chron/1969.html

oscarBravo

joebhoy1916 wrote:

Thats bollocks. Ok you are right...

First, tone it down, please. Second, I'm confused - is it bollocks or is Jackie right?

Lemming

joebhoy1916 wrote:

Thats bollocks.

ehhhhhh .... no it's not actually .....

Jackie laughlin

It's true and it's a tragedy.

Thirty years of murder and missing limbs! Then to add insult to injury they now want seats in Stormont. They could have had that in the first place. Power sharing was available at Sunningdale which both Paisley and the SF/IRA opposed.

Yes, my teachers were wrong. I can't be certain if they were liars or misinformed. If the latter, they are culpable: they had an education and they should have known. The truth was available; it was just withheld from the Irish people who were not to be allowed think for themselves.

Hey, how far back do the lies go? Pretty far! Those guys who fought King Billy? They were fighting in an English civil war.

Irish pseudo-republicanism is built on lies and myths. It can also be downright mad: In a TV interview with Vincent Brown, Ruairi O'Bradaigh said that a vote of the Irish people in favour of partition would not be legitimate because it would not take account of the patriot dead and the Irish yet to be born!

Cork

Jackie laughlin wrote:

Then to add insult to injury they now want seats in Stormont. They could have had that in the first place. Power sharing was available at Sunningdale which both Paisley and the SF/IRA opposed.

SF/IRA are completely clueless.

The murder of Jean McConville was a pointless crime that SF/IRA should now make an apology for.

whassupp2

Cork wrote:

SF/IRA are completely clueless.

The murder of Jean McConville was a pointless crime that SF/IRA should now make an apology for.

Correct. The interview with Toiressa Ferris on Late Late show was evidence of their ignorance.

joebhoy1916

IRA carried out "thorough investigation" into McConville death
The following is the text of a statement issued by Oglaigh na hÉireann on Saturday, 8 July.

"Following a public request from the family of Jean McConville, the IRA carried out a thorough investigation into all the circumstances surrounding her death.

"That investigation confirmed that Jean McConville was working as an informer for the British army. The conclusion of this investigation was reported to Michael McConville. The IRA accepts he rejects this conclusion.

"The IRA regrets the suffering of all the families whose loved ones were killed and buried by the IRA.


Signed

P O'Neill,

Irish Republican Publicity Bureau,

Dublin.

There not gonna say sorry when they believe there were right!!

whassupp2

theres also the Garda McCabe murder. Do they think they're right there???

We dont know because they wont comment.

joebhoy1916

Well if you went to rob a cash van and you had a gun and a guard tried to stop ya what would you do? Run away!!

If is was MURDER then why aint they in jail for murder not manslaughter?

whassupp2

..well ok manslaughter but they still won't apologise.

joebhoy1916

The killers did say sorry!! Dont get me wrong now or anything you may say saying it is no good now but you said they wont apologise but they did..

"We deeply regret and apologise for this and the hurt and grief we have caused to their families,” they said. “There was never any intent to attack any members of the Garda Siochلna,” they added."

jbkenn

joebhoy1916 wrote:

Well if you went to rob a cash van and you had a gun and a guard tried to stop ya what would you do? Run away!!

If is was MURDER then why aint they in jail for murder not manslaughter?

Time to bring you up to speed here, joebhoy, law abiding citizens don't go out to rob cash vans, law abiding citizens dont possess firearms, particularly AK47's, so the question you pose is superfluous.

As to the second part of your question, here are the facts,

Det Gda McCabe and Det Gda O'Sullivan, were escorting a post office truck carrying pension money for delivery to post offices in Co. Limerick, their vehicle was rammed from behind, there was a burst of fire, followed by a pause, followed by a second burst of fire, in all 13 rounds of 7.62mm ammunition were discharged from an AK47, Det. Gda. McCabe was killed instantly and Det. Gda. O'Sullivan seriously wounded, despite the fact that the rear of the truck was open, no cash was taken.
A number of suspects were arrested and charged with the murder of Det. Gda. McCabe, the State had a solid case, but, due to witness imtimidation and the refusal of a key witness to give evidence the State accepted a plea of guilty to manslaughter. Half a loaf being better than none.

As to their apology, mere words, no intent, it will never be accepted by law abiding citizens of this State,

They were scum, they are scum, they will forever be scum, unfortunate for many like me, they will be scum in our midst.

jbkenn

joebhoy1916

jbkenn wrote:

As to their apology, mere words, no intent, it will never be accepted by law abiding citizens of this State,
jbkenn

Yes I know many would say that I was just saying they did apologise.

Well I dont really know about that but if witnesses would not go to court then what evidence was there on them! If there was no witnesses would it be possible they could have got off?

Yes but sadly there are also alot of Not Law abiding citizens!

Rock Climber

joebhoy1916

You better not be trolling because it looks very like you are...

Jackie laughlin

JoeBhoy1916 is I think just a messer. If you read back up the thread, everytime his position is made to look ridiculous, he slides offf into another aspect of the overall issue.

joebhoy1916

Im not trolling.

Oh im a messer am I.

Im not the one talking king Billy or any of them that have no reference to the OP.

Rock Climber

joebhoy1916 wrote:

Im not trolling.

Oh im a messer am I.

Im not the one talking king Billy or any of them that have no reference to the OP.

You are trolling,its the only logical description of your last post regarding the McCabe killers and the tone of several others.
definition
Though if you are here on an internet board,I'm skeptical, as to your protest as to not knowing what a troll is.


I'd advise that you debate properly and read the charter of this board as your attempts at thread disruption are very see through.

This is your final and only warning.


Jackie do not comment on other posters in threads here-please you also read the charter

Now back to the discussion everybody.

Hydroquinone

joebhoy1916 wrote:

The following is the text of a statement issued by Oglaigh na hÉireann on Saturday, 8 July.

"Following a public request from the family of Jean McConville, the IRA carried out a thorough investigation into all the circumstances surrounding her death.

"That investigation confirmed that Jean McConville was working as an informer for the British army. The conclusion of this investigation was reported to Michael McConville. The IRA accepts he rejects this conclusion.

"The IRA regrets the suffering of all the families whose loved ones were killed and buried by the IRA.

Signed
P O'Neill,
Irish Republican Publicity Bureau,
Dublin.

That bit I've bolded makes me wonder what planet they're on or what planet they think we're on. A thorough investigation? Who did they interview? Whose opinion was sought? Even if they managed to get ahold of whichever Army person looked after civilian informants in the British Army at the time, why would he speak to them? Why would he tell them the truth? Why would they believe what he said? Why would either party have anything whatsoever to do with the other? So I doubt very much that they'd be able to get to the British Army person they needed to speak to, even if they wanted to.
So any investigation could only have been within their own ranks.

A thorough investigation of the IRA by the IRA and for the IRA.
Yup, that'll be the very pinnacle of impartiality, that will.

Cork

Hydroquinone wrote:

A thorough investigation.

The IRA have lots of experience with kangaroo courts.

After 30 years - they still cause offence to the McConvilles after the vicious murder of their mother.

SF/IRA are a joke.

When will these people learn that murder is a crime?

They still can't condem the murder of people like Gerry MCcabe.

Democratic partys should follow democratic principles.

Do the shinners support this thorough investigation by the IRA?

Will SF be publishing this thorough investigation?

Sand

Personally, I was dissapointed in the piece Ed Maloney wrote in the Irish Times last week. I knew from his book, Secret History of the IRA, that he basically accepted the SFIRA account of events completely unchallenged. However, still despite the Ombudsmans findings - who even SFIRA acknowledge as a neutral source - he basically just repeated; well the IRA guys who murdered McConville told me she had a radio, so thats that. Its up to the McConville family to prove she didnt have a raido.

Thats as far as his research went - an excuse offered by McConvilles (unidentified of course, not brave enough to try make their claims stick in public) murderers. That he would come out in a national newspaper attacking a woman and her family on the basis of her murderers self serving claims is quite sick.

Jackie laughlin

The SF/IRA claim to have investigated this killing/murder (The choice of term implies your argument.) is an example of something at the core of their tradition and tactics. They tend to set up parallel institutions and structures which parody the institutions of a democratic state. They therefore think their "army" with its ranks, titles and parading is the same as our army. They feel that they can "try" people and "execute" them. They operate as "police" in areas (usually poor areas) north and south. They "punish the guilty". They offer "citizen advice". They recover stolen goods. They even have "institutions" for resolving conflict.

I'm never sure how many of them know that this is a tactic and how many are of them are mad enough to believe in it.

Sometime about now at a SF/IRA meeting someone will propose, "that if the DUP refuse to play ball at Stormont, then as an expression of the will of the Irish People (including our patriot dead), a new parliament be set up which will defy the will of the British and Free State governments."

Diogenes

joebhoy1916 wrote:

IRA carried out "thorough investigation" into McConville death
The following is the text of a statement issued by Oglaigh na hÉireann on Saturday, 8 July.

"Following a public request from the family of Jean McConville, the IRA carried out a thorough investigation into all the circumstances surrounding her death.

"That investigation confirmed that Jean McConville was working as an informer for the British army. The conclusion of this investigation was reported to Michael McConville. The IRA accepts he rejects this conclusion.

"The IRA regrets the suffering of all the families whose loved ones were killed and buried by the IRA.


Signed

P O'Neill,

Irish Republican Publicity Bureau,

Dublin.

There not gonna say sorry when they believe there were right!!

No facts, no evidence, no proof, and the cowards don't even sign their own name, just a pseudonym. Oh well thats all I need isn't it...........