Dog Bite

fathersymes

My dog a Jack Russell went into a frenzy today, bit my girlfriend badly. Went to the doctor and he demanded he be put down saying it is the law. Is this true?

He attacked for no reason, simply being patted at the time. We have a decision to make as to whether a trip to the vet is the most responsible thing to do and have him put down on monday. This is a difficult thing to do to a much loved pet, but the danger is he will attack again.

All comments welcome.

EGAR

No dog attacks without reason. Be it something you missed or be there organic reasons It is not law that a dog which bites has to be destroyed automatically.

How long have you had him? How old is he?

Sangre

According to the law you've been put on notice of his 'mischievous propensity' and you are now fully liable for damages caused by future attacks.

Our man in Havana

Does your dog have any sore spots on his body?? Maybe your GF patted him & it HURT therefore its natural to snap & hurt the person that hurts you.

What does your say? is she ok?? Discuss this as a couple & see how you feel.

If it were me & the bite was not bad then I would give the dog a second chance.

Ruu_Old

I don't know about Ireland but here the dog would be put in quarantine for a month, thats the law in the US. Do whatever you think is best anyway, if he had some sort of a behaviour problem then maybe bring him to obedience school.

Misticles

my friends dog bit a child (nearest thing) when a man put his leg between his own dog nad my mates dog to stop them fighting.. her dad had to get teh dog put down because the neighbours wre apparrently scared of this big mad wolf in the back garden.. i dont think its the law, although, i think your gf can demand to have it put down.

Ruu_Old

I dont see anything about the dog having to be put down here. Certain animals have be kept on leashes or muzzled but not a jack russell. You would be liable for any injury received by a third party as Sangre said and you have to keep your dog under control.

EGAR

Ruu, there is no rabies in Ireland.

Ruu_Old

EGAR wrote:

Ruu, there is no rabies in Ireland.

Sorry too used to American laws, cheerfully withdrawn.

EGAR

No worries

Duras

Bond-007 wrote:

If it were me & the bite was not bad then I would give the dog a second chance.

A second chance for what? To do a really bad bite?

I think putting him down is the best thing to do even you care about him a lot. There is definitely smth wrong with the dog if he attacks ppl he knows with no reason...

peasant

As EGAR and Bond said, there HAS to be a reason why he bit your girlfriend. Either there is something physically wrong with your dog (i.e. pain somewhere that she touched by accident) or he gave out warning signals beforehand , that you missed.

I would take him to the vet ... not to put him down, but to get him thoroughly examined.

Jules

think there is a very difficult decision here and there are valid points on both sides,

yes put him to sleep as do you want to to bite again and maybe it will not be someone close to you child/neighbour etc where they can go to the police and demand the dog be pts

or

no, dogs do not attack for no reason, something had to happen, a provocation or pain, signals that were missed....

my opinion

i think dogs do not attack for no reason, but you have to understand they need very little provocation, once they have bitten once, there is a fairly high chance they will do it again. i agree bring him to your vet and get him/her fully checked out but also be straight with your vet tell him/her the reasons behind the check but be prepared to maybe hear something you dont want to!!!!!

peasant

once they have bitten once, there is a fairly high chance they will do it again.

Sorry Jules, but that is a very broad and sweeping statement.

I'd say it would be safe to assume that the OP's dog has gone through its life so far without having bitten or without having been overly aggressive ... otherwise the OP would have mentioned it.

Therefore the biting incident was most likely a once off and the reason for it needs to be investigated in order to prevent the same chain of circumstances that led to the bite from happening again.

Dogs are pack animals. All their social skills are honed to avoid conflict and injury (otherwise a pack would last all of five minutes). They do not bite without reason and only as a last resort.

The only exception to the rule are:
- dogs that have ben made aggressive by a cruel handler on purpose
- dogs that are physically sick.

Jules

dont think its a broad or sweeping statement as i said fairly high chance not definate chance and if you say it wont happen again i think that is extremely irresponsible of you

peasant

I'm not saying "it won't happen again" ...I'm saying "find out why it did happen and make sure that the same chain of events doesn't occur again"

The dog might be in pain and need medical help
The dog might need to have its behavior corrected
The owner/handler might need to have THEIR behaviour corrected

And as a last resort ...yes, maybe the dog might need to be put down ... but from the limited infromation that the OP provided, I would not think that this is the case.

I could be wrong though, but more info would be needed to assess that.

Jules

and i do believe thats what i said!!!!!

peasant

It's just that your statement might create the impression that once the "bite"-switch on a dog was flicked, it will bite over and over again.

That is simply not true ..there is no such thing as a dog "turning bad" from one moment to another ...that's a myth.

I thought that needed clarifying.

fathersymes

The exact situation when he attacked was; he was in the submissive position (on his back) and being stroked. He was with the vet a few weeks ago, so no physical problems.

It wasn't just a 'Snap' but a full on frenzied attack!

I reckon it is a dominance problem as in I'm pack leader and girlfriend is suboordinate as far as he's concerned.

We really don't want to lose him but also don't want a situation where he savages her face next time.

peasant

Hi fathersymes,

Some of the terminology that you use there doesn't quite sit right with me, could you please clarify the following:

"submissive postion" = on his back:

Was he on his back because he was presenting his belly for a stroking ... in other words was he showing his trust ?

or

Did you force him on his back or command him to lie on his back in order to show his "submission".

If the second answer is correct, then he should have by no means been stroked in that situation ...because he would have clearly seen this as an attack.

Also does he know your GF quite well or are they just newly aquainted? Stroking a dogs belly involves a fair amount of trust on the dogs side ..not every "stranger" is allowed to do it. He might have invited YOU to stroke his belly, but not necessarily included your GF in the "invitation".

Not necessarily a case of "dominance" .

Were there no warning signs at all? No wriggling? No trying to get away? No growling?

Our man in Havana

I agree with what Peasant says - you need to give more info - I have 10 dogs & none have EVER attacked when they are on their backs asking for a belly rub.

How long has the dog know your GF?? Is the dog at all nervous?? Are you 100% sure that the dog does not have a sore spot on his belly?? Also how old is the dog??

fathersymes

How long has the dog know your GF??
1.5 years since I got the dog, he was about 1 year when I got him.

Is the dog at all nervous??
No, pretty confident but sometimes retreats into a corner.

Are you 100% sure that the dog does not have a sore spot on his belly??

Yes, no sore spots.
[/QUOTE]

He voluntarily rolled over on his back but I think she may have moved him around. So that explains him assuming an attack on him.

EGAR

Yes, it would. It could also be that your dog has slight problems with his back/discs etc as I had a JR here once (a rescue who was handed in for biting) who bit when he was played with. Turned out he had back trouble and because of the *manhandling* the discs slipped and caused him pain. That's why he bit.

Our man in Havana

I would give the dog a second chance - & just be very careful to see how the dog & your gf interact. Does she want the dog to be destroyed??

I would also investigate the back just to be on the safe side.

doctor evil

If it ws a bad bite I wouldn`t. You may not be able to control the circumstanses if it happens (I typed if peasant, no need to get on your high horse). If it happens again it could be some one quite unprepared like a child or elderly person.

peasant

*mounts high horse*

If ...and I say if ...the dog had a slipped disk for example and that was the reason why he bit ...why have him put down?

- get him treated

- make sure that nobody (and that includes unsuspecting toddlers and little old grannies) touches him where it hurts.



Slightly skewed perspective there, methinks

*hobbles into the distance, rhythmically banging his coconut shells*

spurious

I'd be quite worried about a dog who, unprovoked (apparently) actually bit someone. Snapping or growling as a warning, yes, while not entirely acceptable are maybe a bit more understandable, but straight to actual biting I would find very worrying. I can understand why the vet recommended he be put to sleep.

Do you have children in the house? Please keep this dog away from them.

peasant

another option:

Assuming that there is nothing physically wrong with the dog, the attack must have had another reason.

Fathersymes, you said that he sometimes retreats into a corner. This would suggest to me that he is not perfectly happy / confident with what goes on around him.

Furthermore you mentioned a few "key words" like "submissive", "dominant", "pack leader" and "subordinate". These words usually come with with the somewhat harsher school of dog training, the school that believes that stamping your authority on the dog is the only way to train a dog.

Don't get me wrong now, I'm not accusing you of anything ...but if ...for example ...you had a very strict and harsh regime at home, the dog then only knows one way to react, when things go too far ...strict and harsh with a bite.

It might be a good idea to invite a professional trainer around for a cuppa, to have alook at the way you and your dog interact and possibly come up with a few suggestions on how to improve trust and understanding on both sides and prevent such an incident from happening again.

fathersymes

Hello Peasant, These words I use 'dominant', 'submissive' etc. are used from my understanding of dog behaviour not a strict regime of training or bad treatment on my part. We both treat the dog as a beloved pet, there is no reason for him to be unhappy. We are giving him a second chance and will keep him away from children and obviously the tummy rubs are out.

Some dogs, especially jack russells attempt to assert their status in the pack more than others.

Just now, she called him over, asked him to sit, to give him a treat and he wouldn't maintain eye contact and growled. Why? You could understand this if she mistreated him and he was afraid.

peasant

Just now, she called him over, asked him to sit, to give him a treat and he wouldn't maintain eye contact and growled. Why? You could understand this if she mistreated him and he was afraid

.

My guess would be that during the biting incident he actually felt "mistreated" ...that's why he bit her in the first place.

There seems to be a massive misunderstanding between your GF and your dog somewhere.

Where exactly that misunderstsanding comes from is difficult to tell over the internet.

I would suggest the following:

First get him to the vet. Tell the vet about the incident and get the dog checked again for possible pain round the belly and back areas.

If there is nothing physically wrong, I really think it would be a good idea to get some independent advice on this situation. Some professional to observe you, your GF and the dog for a while.

There must be something going wrong in your communication with the dog that you're just not seeing. Happens to the best of us ...little mistakes creep in without anybody realising, until an outsider points them out.

Whereabouts are you?

In case you are in the northwest, please pm me for the contact details of a good "doggy trainer"

Lexie

One of our terriers used to nearly take the hand off us when we rubbed his belly. He would roll over for us to rub him and when we touched him he would bite.

Brought him to the vet and he said the dog had Hernia (sp?). All fixed now, and he doesnt snap anymore.

Maybe the OP should bring the dog to another Vet for a second opinion and checkup.