Project Revo...!!

Plug

Ah yeah thanks for the magical welcome:D I went away for a week to lanzarotie and my computer finally gave in, now im on my friends pc but im getting one from dell.

vectra

Well,
I just got off the phone to Traxxas UK. I spoke to Bob and he told me that he could find no specific reaso why the conrod had let go. When it did it dropped some debri and made a hole in the Crankcase as well which i did not see..
Then he went on to tell me that there was a small crack on the carb body which could have let air in and make it run hot..thus conrod giving up?


Anyway.
The Good News.

Engine fully rebuilt complerte with new carb and crankcase etc.
He also had it runing for a short while and advised me to only use TORNADO 25% :eek:

I got a bit of a land with that one.. i would have thought he would suggest something lower % for it..
But there you go..
A round of Applause for Traxxas..

SLIM19198

Did they tell you where to get tornado 25%?

vectra

SLIM19198 wrote:

Did they tell you where to get tornado 25%?

Halfords in Limerick I got the last lot.


I am still thinking of Noel Barrets stuff at the same time..

Half the price of the Tornado :eek:

SLIM19198

vectra wrote:

Half the price of the Tornado :eek:

Is there anything to justify the price difference?

Does it really make a difference?

vectra

SLIM19198 wrote:

Is there anything to justify the price difference?

Does it really make a difference?

Well.
Put it this way
When I was running the 2.5r on MT16% it hated it and wouldnt run right
My sons T-Maxx ran fine on the stuff.
When i put my 2.5r in his Maxx and gave it the 25% he couldnt beleive the difference.. he was giving me a good run for my money with the 3.3 in the revo running 15% :eek:
That was until his 2.5 ran out of steam and the 3.3 kept on pulling..

Seriously though...!

I am deffo gonna try some of Noels stuff.

Plug

vectra wrote:

Well,
I just got off the phone to Traxxas UK. I spoke to Bob and he told me that he could find no specific reaso why the conrod had let go. When it did it dropped some debri and made a hole in the Crankcase as well which i did not see..
Then he went on to tell me that there was a small crack on the carb body which could have let air in and make it run hot..thus conrod giving up?

Thats not the 2.5 I gave you?:eek:

vectra

Plug wrote:

Thats not the 2.5 I gave you?:eek:

No.
That was the my 3.3 that went Bang..!

Plug

How did you manage to do that? Was it the high % fuel? Anyway good luck with the new motor;)

vectra

Plug wrote:

How did you manage to do that? Was it the high % fuel? Anyway good luck with the new motor;)

Not sure really how it happened.. Nor was Traxxas themselves.
They just put it down to one of those things that "rarely" happens.. :rolleyes:

They also told me to run it from day one on the 25% Tornado that it if perfectly fine for them

Plug

Traxxas in america recommend there "top fuel", maybe that tornado stuff is the european equivilent. That stuffs a bit pricy though:(
Its alot quieter around here than usaual

vectra

Plug wrote:

Traxxas in america recommend there "top fuel", maybe that tornado stuff is the european equivilent. That stuffs a bit pricy though:(
Its alot quieter around here than usaual

But you cant get "top fuel" here.
Out of the three I suggested he reccomended the tornado as one the he was familiar with.


Yeah, it is quiet here at present..
Mosr forums I visit are gone that way strangely enough..except for the traxxas one.
A few of us are trying to get a central forum going whereas all rc clubs etc in Ireland could have their own section..
why not take a look in?
Have a Look Here.!

coolwings

vectra wrote:

Not sure really how it happened.. Nor was Traxxas themselves.

Highly unlikely (unless you spoke with a beginner at the company).
You see-the tracks of events are written on the metal like a set of footprints, and they examined the metal parts.
When you look at a damaged engine there can be no mystery.

They know exactly what happened IMHO.
Just consider how many cases of every type of problem they see ...

Traxxas just chose not to say what happened for commercial reasons.

vectra

coolwings wrote:

Highly unlikely (unless you spoke with a beginner at the company).
You see-the tracks of events are written on the metal like a set of footprints, and they examined the metal parts.
When you look at a damaged engine there can be no mystery.

They know exactly what happened IMHO.
Just consider how many cases of every type of problem they see ...

Traxxas just chose not to say what happened for commercial reasons.

Well, All he did say was that it looked like the conrod just failed for no specific reason. :cool:

coolwings

Just for example ....
If the top of the conrod failed it was detonation to be confirmed by piston top condition.
If the conrod bottom failed it was high rpm
If too much heat was involved the metal was burned blue
If the metal was cast badly it showed crystalline cracks at the point of failure
If the conrod boss wore and the pieces broke it with impacting, there was brass filings visible throughout.
Similar for any other foreign object impacting on the conrod (eg a piece of a broken bearing)

How about that - and I am not even looking at the engine !

Seriously - they know full well what did it.

vectra

coolwings wrote:

Just for example ....
If the top of the conrod failed it was detonation to be confirmed by piston

Seriously - they know full well what did it.

Explain that one?
Sounds about right

And yes. I do think you are right in saying they knew exactly the problem but obviously it was a design/component fault. If it were something I did wrong then I am ful sure they would not be long pointing it out to me. :rolleyes:

Now in saying that. I cannot run them down for thier backup service because there was a questionmark over how a little crack came on the carb body by the idle screw. I told them that i cracked it getting the carb off by accident but not to worry as I had a spare carb here that i could use.. Guess what/
they said no problem, It has been replaced with a new one F.O.C.

coolwings

"Explain that one"
Vectra
Do you mean what causes damage to the conrod top?
It is impacts occurring while piston is at top dead centre or still rising.

Brought on by premature ignition accompanied by the following symptons:
1 a rattle type sound (engine can sound "tinny")
2 short life for glowplugs
3 probable simultaneous slight hot seize/tightening while running.

Causes of premature ignition:
Overhigh nitro for engine, too lean on main carb jet, low fuel oil content (causing fuel to explode earlier), using synthetic oil fuel for running engine in , too hot a glowplug for the fuel/tuning settings, too short tuned pipe/pipe silicone joining piece (pipe not tuned! ).

Do a few of those sound familiar? :-)

Yeah the backup service is good, provided you ignore the fact that it blew up!

Avoiding the hassle would have been better still.

vectra

coolwings wrote:

"Explain that one"
Vectra
Do you mean what causes damage to the conrod top?
It is impacts occurring while piston is at top dead centre or still rising.

Brought on by premature ignition accompanied by the following symptons:
1 a rattle type sound (engine can sound "tinny")
2 short life for glowplugs
3 probable simultaneous slight hot seize/tightening while running.

Causes:
Overhigh nitro for engine, too lean on main carb jet, low fuel oil content (causing fuel to explode earlier), using synthetic oil fuel for running engine in , too hot a glowplug for the fuel/tuning settings, too short tuned pipe/pipe silicone joining piece (pipe not tuned! ).

Yeah the backup service is good, provided you ignore the fact that it blew up!

Avoiding the problem would have been better.

OK
The day it did die I had this happen

2 short life for glowplugs {{{ 3 glo plugs that day }}}


As for the causes.?
I am a bit stumped here.
Overhigh nitro for engine, too lean on main carb jet, low fuel oil content (causing fuel to explode earlier), using synthetic oil fuel for running engine in , too hot a glowplug for the fuel/tuning settings, too short tuned pipe/pipe silicone joining piece (pipe not tuned! ).


I was using the Tornado 25% but had a decent trail of smoke.
It was running fine even with temps. didnt seem too hot ( as if running lean)
Was using a Traxxas Glo plug.
and the tuned pipe was original revo one with original coupling as well.

Doffy

Ah put a 6.39 engine litre valve is greater then a 7.49 air filter MAX.


I know that as a fact.

coolwings

Amazing how often it happens on the 3rd glowplug.

vectra wrote:

had a decent trail of smoke.

Just a thought - smoke means you're burning oil - right? But it doesn't tell you if the oil was liquid and lubricating when it burned
or
boiled into gas and not lubricating when it burned.
Either way, less smoke would happen if the oil didn't burn at all, and came out taking heat out with it.
So much for the happy "easy to use this car" instructions we are so used to making fun of in the workshop. You know - the bit where it says about a nice smoke trail helping to tune the engine. We tune by sound ... but it's harder to describe that.

vectra wrote:

I was using the Tornado 25%

No experience of it. It is either castor or synthetic. The castor has a higher boiling temperature, so should always be used in a "running-in" (=high temp) situation in preference to synthetic. Whether the book says yes or no doesn't change it.

vectra wrote:

didnt seem too hot

If you had pre-ignition there was no need for temps to be high at all. You had a jackhammer banging away on the piston top & conrod all the while it was running at any temp.

vectra wrote:

using a Traxxas Glo plug.

I know you are into brands being better/worse but they are all the same to me. I expect the glowplug is an excellent quality.

vectra wrote:

and the tuned pipe was original revo one with original coupling as well.

Kinda agree with you. I doubt that had anything to do with it.

But
If I was using 25% nitro in an engine of mine I would have had at least 22% oil content in the fuel, minimum 3% of it castor, and the engine already finished running in. For a high revver (like a car) I would probably go for 24% oil with nitro over 20%.
Actually that is one combination I actually used to use when racing my ic boats. :-) I used mainly 24% oil with 35% nitro though.

Is your fuel 15% oil? Or was that a mix you used to use in the past due to it's snappy throttling? I can't remember.

My guess is it started ok, then ran fine, but while it was running for a period the pre-ignition crept in as the temp rose over some particular level. A richer setting "may" have avoided some. Lower nitro would certainly have helped IMHO.
Just possibly dropping fuel tank level was contributory in slight leaning out and rising temp during running.
For such a high compression setting a second head gasket would have likely been a complete cure.
Even a second glowplug washer might have been enough.
But the maker would never be able to recommend such "technical" stuff in their "this is a simple model to use" documentation. It might put buyers off and make buyers think they need to buy their car from a less distant supplier wouldn't it?
This might reduce sales of US cars in lucrative overseas markets, and divert sales to other makes from nearby..
Not a good thing at all.
I'm just too cynical to describe, aren't I Vectra?
:-)

vectra

coolwings wrote:

Amazing how often it happens on the 3rd glowplug.


Just a thought - smoke means you're burning oil - right? But it doesn't tell you if the oil was liquid and lubricating when it burned
or
boiled into gas and not lubricating when it burned.
Either way, less smoke would happen if the oil didn't burn at all, and came out taking heat out with it.
So much for the happy "easy to use this car" instructions we are so used to making fun of in the workshop. You know - the bit where it says about a nice smoke trail helping to tune the engine. We tune by sound ... but it's harder to describe that.
No experience of it. It is castor or synthetic. The castor has a higher boiling temperature, so should always be used in a "running-in" (=high temp) situation in preference to synthetic.


If you had pre-ignition there was no need for temps to be high at all. You had a jackhammer banging away on the piston top & conrod all the while it was running at any temp.


I know you are into brands being better/worse but they are all the same to me.
I doubt that had anything to do with it.

But
If I was using 25% nitro in an engine of mine I would have had at least 22% oil content in the fuel, minimum 3% of it castor, and the engine already finished running in. For a high revver (like a car) I would probably go for 24% oil with nitro over 20%.
Actually that is one combination I actually used to use when racing my ic boats. :-) I used mainly 24% oil with 35% nitro though.

Is your fuel 15% oil? Or was that a mix you used to use in the past due to it's snappy throttling? I can't remember.

My guess is it started ok, ran fine, but as it was running the pre-ignition crept in as the temp rose over some particular level. A richer setting "may" have avoided some. Lower nitro would certainly have helped IMHO.
Just possibly dropping fuel tank level was contributory in slight leaning out and rising temp during running.
For such a high compression setting a second head gasket would have likely been a complete cure.
Even a second glowplug washer might have been enough.
But the maker would never be able to recommend such "technical" stuff in their "this is a simple model to use" documentation. It might put buyers off and make them think they need to buy from a less distant supplier wouldn't it?
This might reduce sales of US cars in lucrative overseas markets.
Not a good thing at all.
I'm just too cynical to describe, aren't I?
:-)

Actually I am thinking to myself..
Does a high performance engine like the 3.3 actually need 25% nitro?
It seemed to run fine on 15% MT

Now I am wondering should I use the Morgans Coolpower 15% from Noel Barrets this time round?

Plug

I saw that happen to a few lads online, the conrod gave way, one actually cracked down the middle:o I say the morgans coolpower is better than mt15% and if you say the mt15% works fine you should give morgans 15% ago;)

coolwings

The Specter 1:8 buggy is hot enough for me on 5% !

I accept that if I only did cars I might want / demand more ..... but it's very fast on 5%.

That would of course be tuned lean enough to make everything touching the engine roasting hot after a 4 minute run at top, and a slow cool it off run almost mandatory at regular intervals!

I use Model Technics GoGlo Plus 5% nitro 18% oil.


A thought:
Why don't you tell Noel you want whatever he gives the ducted fan engine guys. It should be nice.

tallus

That Model Technics 5% runs great in all of my cars, not much of a marked difference at all when I tried it as opposed to the 15% stuff I was using before that. I never felt the need to go any higher as the engines were getting too finickey cutting out and running hot, even though my engine/tuning sounded fine .

Plug

I usally run MT 16% dynoglow, but I tried MT 16% Quikfire, What a difference and without breaking the budget too much. Ye should give it a try sometime.

Plug

vectra wrote:

Well, I decided to try and keep a documented Progression series of text and pics for you guys..;)

This Webpage will be updated accordingly as I progress with the work at hand..:D
""Vectra's Project Revo""

That revo looks very firmilar......


Bought it the other day from "Santa" in cork!
My christmas present came early this year:)

I will try and get a few more pictures this weekend.

vectra

Plug wrote:

That revo looks very firmilar......


Bought it the other day from "Santa" in cork!
My christmas present came early this year:)

I will try and get a few more pictures this weekend.

Camera Broken or just having too much fun with your new Pressie..!!

g5hn710m4xpdwy

Iv missed far too much, you sold the revo and too plug, of all people!:D
What do you run now?

vectra

Flunked wrote:

Iv missed far too much, you sold the revo and too plug, of all people!:D
What do you run now?

Patience..

Plug

Flunked wrote:

Iv missed far too much, you sold the revo and too plug, of all people!:D
What do you run now?

Yeap i got my hands on it first:p

I supose vectra is running that tank of a thing he bought!