Attention Irish Motorists

prospect

Vegeta wrote:

Accidents are exactly that, accidents they are not planned, if one pulls into the hard shoulder there is definitely a greater risk of meeting an obstacle than of you if you had stayed in the main lane.

That is true,
However, you are at no greater risk than you would be on a single lane carriageway with no HS.

Vegeta

prospect wrote:

? I don't understand your point.
Are you saying that it is unsafe, and that is why it is for emergency vehicles in emergencies, because that doesn't make sense to me.

Suprise suprise :rolleyes:

Because it is reserved for emergencys, and can be used temporarily for slower vehicles to allow faster vehicles, because long tailbacks are dangerous on national routes.

So you are of the opinion if we doubled the number of lanes it would increase traffic and tailbacks. Funny usually people double the number of lanes to reduce traffic congestion.

On a long straight stretch of road, with no left turns and no obstacles, i would say it is equally safe.

On a straight long road there is no need to pull in to assist over taking

Now before you go off ranting about pedestrians & parked cars, from the outset of this thread, I have only been referring to long clear stretches of hard shoulder with no obstructions.

Again no need to pull in on long clear roads

I use the hard shoulder regularly when towing a trailer, and going slow, and I have never been in an even remotely dangerous incident. I have regularly met far worse obstacles and potholes on the driving lane of single lane roads.

We are not talking about single lane roads, which are generally not national routes and have lower speed limits. We are talking about roads with hard shoulders.

So with my hand on my heart, I honestly feel that the hard shoulder is perfectly safe. And, I know the ROTR back me up by clearly stating that the HS can be used by slow vehicles to allow faster ones to pass.

And i know the rules of the road favour my position saying it is a choice and no one has to do it

I am still waiting for PROOF that the hard shoulder is unsafe.[/QUOTE]

No you are ignoring logic.

And I am still awaiting a reason why someone should pull in on this long stretch of clear road which is obviously no danger to overtake normally on

Vegeta

prospect wrote:

That is true,
However, you are at no greater risk than you would be on a single lane carriageway with no HS.

exactly which is why single lane carraigeways generally have lower speed limits and are not national routes, as they are slightly more unsafe

prospect

Vegeta wrote:

Suprise suprise :rolleyes:




So you are of the opinion if we doubled the number of lanes it would increase traffic and tailbacks. Funny usually people double the number of lanes to reduce traffic congestion.




On a straight long road there is no need to pull in to assist over taking



Again no need to pull in on long clear roads



We are not talking about single lane roads, which are generally not national routes and have lower speed limits. We are talking about roads with hard shoulders.



And i know the rules of the road favour my position saying it is a choice and no one has to do it

I am still waiting for PROOF that the hard shoulder is unsafe.

No you are ignoring logic.

And I am still awaiting a reason why someone should pull in on this long stretch of clear road which is obviously no danger to overtake normally on[/QUOTE]

Em,
I am pretty sure you have misinterpreted every single point here and got it all arze about face.

YOUR 'logic' is not proof.

Vegeta wrote:

And I am still awaiting a reason why someone should pull in on this long stretch of clear road which is obviously no danger to overtake normally on

Common courtesy,
Reduce potential for tailbacks,
Reduce the amount of time overtaking requires,
Reduce the amount of time & volume of traffic on the opposite lane,
Because the ROTR asks you to.

So, I AM STILL WAITING FOR PROOF THE HARD SHOULDER IS DANGEROUS.

GreeBo

prospect wrote:

On a long straight stretch of road, with no left turns and no obstacles, i would say it is equally safe.

if its so long ans so striaght just over take normally like a normal person would.

Vegeta

prospect wrote:

No you are ignoring logic.

And I am still awaiting a reason why someone should pull in on this long stretch of clear road which is obviously no danger to overtake normally on

Em,
I am pretty sure you have misinterpreted every single point here and got it all arze about face.

YOUR 'logic' is not proof.


Common courtesy,
Reduce potential for tailbacks,
Reduce the amount of time overtaking requires,
Reduce the amount of time & volume of traffic on the opposite lane,
Because the ROTR asks you to.

So, I AM STILL WAITING FOR PROOF THE HARD SHOULDER IS DANGEROUS.

How can i give you proof. How can you give me proof.

You said yourself in post 212 that single carraigeway roads which have the same obstacles as the hard shoulder i.e. cyclists, house entrance, broken down car etc etc are just as dangerous as the hard shoulder and I agree.

The difference though is that roads that have no hard shoulder are usually classed as R roads and generally have lower speed limits due to these dangers.

prospect

Dear All,

After hogging this thread, and probably alot of boards.ie bandwidth, myself and Vegeta have amicably agreed to disagree via PM.

I enjoyed this debate, but I don't think it can ever logically end, unless a Mod feels it should be locked.

Chunks.

BrianD3

Actually I believe it is more dangerous to drive a fastmoving vehicle in the HS of a single carriageway road than to drive on a single carriageway road without a hard shoulder (all other things being fairly equal) Compare national primary to national secondary roads. Primary usually has a HS, secondary usually doesn't and both have the same speed limit. Because of bad planning in the past, both will have numerous house and field entrances. I am repeating myself here but people generally don't drive straight out of their houses onto nat secondary roads without looking or stopping. In contrast, every day I see people driving/walking/cycling straight out onto the hard shoulder on primary routes because they ASSUME it will be clear. So they come out of their driveway out onto the HS without looking - straight in front of a car travelling at 90 km/h in the HS with another car outside him overtaking at 100+ km/h and cars on the other side of the road travelling at 100 km/h in the opposite direction. Is it so difficult for people to see the potential for disaster in situations like this.

Other behaviour you're likely to find in a hard shoulder that you generally won't find in the driving lane of a road without a hard shoulder
-cyclists cycling against the flow of traffic
-people having picnics
-broken down/parked vehicles, drivers stopped anwering mobiles, truckers parked up having a snooze

Also as has already been said the road surface of the HS can suddenly deteriorate, it can also get narrower or disappear altoghter without any warning signs etc. There are a lot of stretches on the N3 like this. If you pull into the HS and the guy behind takes longer to go by that you expected you can find yourself rapidly approaching a bad section of HS while being unable to pull back out.

The authorities seem to be recognising that the HS is not a very safe place to be. "Proof" of this is all the hatch markings that are appearing in hard shoulders all over the country. Presumably these markings prohibit drivers from driving or parking in those areas of the HS. On one part of the N3 I was on yesterday I counted so many of these that it would have been pointless and dangerous pulling over to let a following vehicle overtake as the gaps between each set of hatch markings was so small

oddone

The biggest problem this country faces is ignorance:
I believe our problems do not stem from poor driving education (although this obviously needs to be seriously improved) but simply laziness and ignorance.
From my experience, Irish drivers seem to believe the outside lane of a motorway or dual carriageway is called 'the fast lane' which is for going fast!
Why do I think this: because I and I know everyone else sees it everyday, the outer lane of a motorway or dual carriageway is quite simply an overtaking lane, when you have completed your overtaking manouevre you should return to the inside lane. Irish drivers do not seem to be able to grasp this very simple rule of the road and continue to drive over the speed limit often 'tailgating' other cars while doing so.
The next problem is signalling, when they do decide to overtake they seem to forget where the indicator switch is in their vehicles, resulting in dangerous driving which results in accidents and inevitably deaths.
The list goes on and on, driving at high speeds on small country roads, not obeying roadsigns, tailgating, dangerous overtaking, using foglights along with dimmed headlights, not using mirrors, speeding through built up areas, using the wrong lanes on roundabouts etc etc etc.
We are a nation of ignorant,lazy drivers, the appalling road death figures each year are testament to this fact, until the Gardai decide to adopt a British/American style approach and actually have a daily physical presence on our roads the carnage will continue, penalty points or not. Until then expect more families to be torn apart with grief, this is a tough statement but unfortunately it is true.

miju

prospect wrote:

What a load of crap.

get yer head outta yer ass , it's not crap , if you overtake in a dodgy spot you can cause an accident plain and simple really