Bad News Just Keeps coming

Altreab

More bad news if you happen to be waitig for BB in a gaeltacht area. Eamonn o Cuiv has announced that since late last year he directed Udaras na Gaeltachta to stop providing funds to upgrade local exchanges. This came about because Noel Dempsey is insisting that there is loads of dosh available to do any upgrades required. Loads of dosh but very very slow to pay it out as discussed by Spongebob in an earlier Thread.
That in conjunction with the latest from Comreg about the USO here means Cringely may have it right after all.
My local exchange Cill Chiarain would appear to be the last exchange to get funding from UnG. Now just until August to wait for it to get a radio link in for back haul!!! Note that the the year hasnt been mentioned. Then i will have confirmation that i will not be able to get BB.

PLEASE prove me wrong on that last point Eircom.

Sponge Bob

Altreab wrote:

More bad news if you happen to be waitig for BB in a gaeltacht area. Eamonn o Cuiv has announced that since late last year he directed Udaras na Gaeltachta to stop providing funds to upgrade local exchanges. .

Where did O Cuiv announce this ???

Altreab

Sponge Bob wrote:

Where did O Cuiv announce this ???

It was on the morning news on RnG today with follow up reports listing exchanges that are not upgraded in the Donegal, Mayo, Galway and Kerry gaeltachts.

eircomtribunal

Altreab wrote:

More bad news if you happen to be waitig for BB in a gaeltacht area. Eamonn o Cuiv has announced that since late last year he directed Udaras na Gaeltachta to stop providing funds to upgrade local exchanges. This came about because Noel Dempsey is insisting...

I beg to differ with you and Sponge on this issue.
Noel Dempsey was right to listen to arguments on this issue. It was a counterproductive nonsense to separately finance Eircom's Gaeltacht exchange upgrades and the sooner it stops the better.
Why would any operator, with such sponsorship in prospect, not hold back with its normal upgrading?
BT manipulated the UK regional bodies in a similar way, but at least BT was a willing and constructive partner, who also looked at removing line impediments.

Udaras paid 800 000 euros for the DSL enabling of some 13 exchanges (all done now, if it went according to schedule). Letting alone the fact that such enticement is counterproductive: How many DSL connections have been made for this amount? What is the line failure rate on those exchanges?

P.

niallb

Altreab wrote:

It was on the morning news on RnG today with follow up reports listing exchanges that are not upgraded in the Donegal, Mayo, Galway and Kerry gaeltachts.

Didn't catch that. Any chance of finding that list?
Is Spiddal on it? :-(

I'll stick it up myself if I come across it.
Thanks,
NiallB

damien

This is what I got off Udaras, these were rough dates so add or remove a 6 week block:


Gaoth Dobhair, Co. Dhún na nGall Quarter Oct – Dec 04
Cill Chártha, Co. Dhún na nGall Quarter Jan – March 05
An Fálcarrach, Co. Dhún na nGall Quarter July – Sept 05
Béal Átha an Gaorthaidh, Co. Corcaí Quarter Jan – March 05

Baile Mhic Íre, Co. Corcaí Quarter Jan – March 05
An Daingean, Co. Ciarraí Quarter July – Sept 04
Gob an Choire, Co. Maigh Eo Quarter April - June 06
Bun an Churraigh, Co. Maigh Eo Quarter Jan – March 06

Béal an Mhuirthead, Co. Maigh Eo Quarter Jan – March 05
Carna, Co. na Gaillimhe Quarter Jan – March 05
An Cheathrú Rua, Co. na Gaillimhe Quarter Jan – March 05
Cill Chiaráin, Co. na Gaillimhe Quarter April – June 06
An Spidéal, Co. na Gaillimhe Quarter April – June 06

Altreab

damien.m wrote:

This is what I got off Udaras, these were rough dates so add or remove a 6 week block:


Gaoth Dobhair, Co. Dhún na nGall Quarter Oct – Dec 04
Cill Chártha, Co. Dhún na nGall Quarter Jan – March 05
An Fálcarrach, Co. Dhún na nGall Quarter July – Sept 05
Béal Átha an Gaorthaidh, Co. Corcaí Quarter Jan – March 05

Baile Mhic Íre, Co. Corcaí Quarter Jan – March 05
An Daingean, Co. Ciarraí Quarter July – Sept 04
Gob an Choire, Co. Maigh Eo Quarter April - June 06
Bun an Churraigh, Co. Maigh Eo Quarter Jan – March 06

Béal an Mhuirthead, Co. Maigh Eo Quarter Jan – March 05
Carna, Co. na Gaillimhe Quarter Jan – March 05
An Cheathrú Rua, Co. na Gaillimhe Quarter Jan – March 05
Cill Chiaráin, Co. na Gaillimhe Quarter April – June 06
An Spidéal, Co. na Gaillimhe Quarter April – June 06

Carna has been upgraded since Jan/Feb last year .....Béal an Mhuirthead, was mentioned today as stillnot been upgraded ...Cill Chiaráin, Co. na Gaillimhe has not gone live yet ... I have been told that equipment has been installed but the radio link has to be installed yet. This "...will be done in August..."
The rest i havent heard anything about yet. Im still waiting for RnG to post todays programme online for fulll details

Altreab

eircomtribunal wrote:

I beg to differ with you and Sponge on this issue.
Noel Dempsey was right to listen to arguments on this issue. It was a counterproductive nonsense to separately finance Eircom's Gaeltacht exchange upgrades and the sooner it stops the better.
Why would any operator, with such sponsorship in prospect, not hold back with its normal upgrading?
BT manipulated the UK regional bodies in a similar way, but at least BT was a willing and constructive partner, who also looked at removing line impediments.

Udaras paid 800 000 euros for the DSL enabling of some 13 exchanges (all done now, if it went according to schedule). Letting alone the fact that such enticement is counterproductive: How many DSL connections have been made for this amount? What is the line failure rate on those exchanges?

P.

The problem is they would not have even looked at any of the Gaeltacht exchanges without the funding from Udaras.
Cill Chiarain is a very good example of Eircom policy in this matter. They have had Funding availible to them for the last 18-24 months and they are still not ready to go live.
My main gripe with the Uradas funding is that there are no requirements on Eircom to deliver anything more than equipment to the exchange. This leaves a 25% failure rate on the lines if not a lot more, with no requirement to fix them or to deliver a quality service!!

oscarBravo

Altreab wrote:

Béal an Mhuirthead, was mentioned today as stillnot been upgraded ...

Really? I understood that all the Mayo exchanges listed were live.

Altreab wrote:

This leaves a 25% failure rate on the lines if not a lot more...

I'd be very surprised if it's that low.

Sponge Bob

eircomtribunal wrote:

I beg to differ with you and Sponge on this issue.

I am not sure we ARE differing here.

Noel Dempsey was right to listen to arguments on this issue. It was a counterproductive nonsense to separately finance Eircom's Gaeltacht exchange upgrades and the sooner it stops the better.

I am not sure Dempsey had anything to do with this at all. I have certainly never stated that he did. The funding came from Udarás na Gaeltachta which is part of Eamonn O Cuivs dept and which is allowed to fund infrastructure . Imagine the Udarás as a hybrid County Council and Enterprise Ireland entity which has areas on the west coast under its wing.

Why would any operator, with such sponsorship in prospect, not hold back with its normal upgrading?

Noted. The extent of the sponsorship is as yet unknown.

BT manipulated the UK regional bodies in a similar way, but at least BT was a willing and constructive partner, who also looked at removing line impediments.

There we have it. BT tended to do projects like ALL of Yorkshire and then did a lot of line work as well. By enabling ALL the exchanges in Yorkshire, AND cleaning up the lines, BT was bringing a technology onstream with 95%+ Population coverage at least. And thats in rural areas. Therefore the schemes were Universal/Near Universal and not comparable to the Udarás scheme where not one penny was spent on the rotten and degraded eircom copper nor was any investment sought in the rotten copper .

I understand that there are exchanges where the failure rate is 100% beyond ONE MILE. Carraroe in Galway and Carrick in Donegal have been named to me as the suspects.

Overall its 40% failure because of the ongoing lack off investment in the copper.

Udaras paid 800 000 euros for the DSL enabling of some 13 exchanges (all done now, if it went according to schedule). Letting alone the fact that such enticement is counterproductive: How many DSL connections have been made for this amount? What is the line failure rate on those exchanges?

The failure rate overall is around 40% ... post enabling. No SLA on failures was sought or given. The lack of basic coverage targets is the big mistake .

I am VERY sceptical about the €800k figure and the original tranche of 8 exchanges (agreed late 2003/early 2004) was supposed to cost €800k ...thats €100k each which is _not a bad deal _ and which is uncontroversial in my opinion. One of them (Daingean aka Dingle) would have been announced by eircom and done for free anyway (pop over 1500) when they announced their 2004 program but the Udarás did not know that.

Here they be. 8 exchanges for €800k . Much Gaeltacht employment in these towns . €800k does not get you a lot of road or water scheme in a granite area may I stress.

Gaoth Dobhair, Co. Dhún na nGall Quarter Oct – Dec 04
Cill Chártha, Co. Dhún na nGall Quarter Jan – March 05
Béal Átha an Gaorthaidh, Co. Corcaí Quarter Jan – March 05
Baile Mhic Íre, Co. Corcaí Quarter Jan – March 05
An Daingean, Co. Ciarraí Quarter July – Sept 04
Béal an Mhuirthead, Co. Maigh Eo Quarter Jan – March 05
Carna, Co. na Gaillimhe Quarter Jan – March 05
An Cheathrú Rua, Co. na Gaillimhe Quarter Jan – March 05


I DO NOT BELIEVE that eircom threw in these 5 exchanges for FREE .

An Fálcarrach, Co. Dhún na nGall Quarter July – Sept 05
Gob an Choire, Co. Maigh Eo Quarter April - June 06
Cill Chiaráin, Co. na Gaillimhe Quarter April – June 06
An Spidéal, Co. na Gaillimhe Quarter April – June 06
Bun an Churraigh, Co. Maigh Eo Quarter Jan – March 06

I have heard eye watering figures bandied about for one particular exchange which is in that second group of 5 exchanges. Its obviously a different group if you only look at the dates . I understand that the cost of enabling that one single small exchange was anywhere up to €350k .

On the plus side , eircom has enabled other exchanges in Gaeltacht areas and where the population was NOT over 1500 persons and where the Udarás , self admittedly, did not fund the enabling of the exchanges. These are all located in Udarás areas.

Ardara Donegal
Dunfanaghy Donegal
Inveran Galway
Teeranea Galway
Bealadangan Galway
Barna Galway
Moycullen Galway
Claregalway Galway
Keel(Achill) Mayo
Carrick Donegal

Maybe they should be lumped in as collateral to make the Udarás investment look better because all of those exchanges are in Gaeltacht areas and are live today .

It may even be that the Udarás through direct funding, persuasion, begging and lobbying eventually got more than 20 exchanges upgraded for an investment totalling €800k , about €33k each . That would make them legends in this country .

jman

Sponge Bob wrote:

On the plus side , eircom has enabled other exchanges in Gaeltacht areas and where the population was NOT over 1500 persons and where the Udarás , self admittedly, did not fund the enabling of the exchanges. These are all located in Udarás areas.

Ardara Donegal
Dunfanaghy Donegal
Inveran Galway
Teeranea Galway
Bealadangan Galway
Barna Galway
Moycullen Galway
Claregalway Galway
Keel(Achill) Mayo
Carrick Donegal

Not quite ...

I am not sure what exactly went on here. I do know that a Na Forbacha (Furbo) folk were connected either to Spiddal or Barna exchanges. Both of
these exchanges have since been enabled. Spiddal sponsored by Udarás, Barna, well who knows why. In the course of this enablement, a lot of Furbo folk were moved to a new "sub exchange" in Furbo, directly across the road
from Udarás offices. This "sub exchange" was not DSL enabled (despite
the fact it was brand new) and latest news is there are no plans to
enable it. It boggles the mind how this could happen and literally directly under the nose of Udarás, probably no more than 30 feet away from
their offices in Furbo.

In addition, Udarás then togther with Com1 applied for a GBS grant
for the Cois Fharraige region. This was awarded. Com1 started to roll out
expensive (150 euro+ a month for 1Mb) and limited FWA broadband to Businesses (only) in the Cois Fharraige region. Com1 subsequently absolved themselves of operating this service and handed over existing customers to Leap. Do they (Udarás & Com1) get to keep the dosh ? Who should shoulder
the responsability of a squandered opportunity ?

Businesses, Residents/Home workers are still screaming for a workable
and affordable solution.

A total and complete mess .... like the rest of Broadband fiasco in Ireland.

Meanwhile Mr Dempsey, decides to spend 500k on a Broadband awareness
campaign.

Mr Dempsey, the issue is not AWARENESS, its AVAILABILITY !!

Sponge Bob

jman wrote:

. It boggles the mind how this could happen and literally directly under the nose of Udarás, probably no more than 30 feet away from
their offices in Furbo.

I forgot that. Its visible from the Udarás Boardroom . That sub exchange was installed after the €800k package had been agreed.

In addition, Udarás then togther with Com1 applied for a GBS grant
for the Cois Fharraige region.

The Udarás explicitly did not want a GBS scheme for residential customers I heard becuase it would send out the wrong message.

Mr Dempsey, the issue is not AWARENESS, its AVAILABILITY !!

Having checked the spiddle story it appears that the spiddle exchange is live and that the eastern extent of teh service area is Park (Páirc) . This means that the area from Udarás HQ to Páirc is not served by any BB technology except the delightful VSAT jobbie on the school .

That leaves an underved area about 1 mile each side of Furbo beach and off up the boreens too.

I would ask Noel Dempsey why Furbo is NOT getting a MAN like it was supposed to , yiz are delisted .
minister@dcmnr.ie

damien

Sponge Bob wrote:

I am VERY sceptical about the €800k figure

I have heard eye watering figures bandied about for one particular exchange which is in that second group of 5 exchanges. Its obviously a different group if you only look at the dates . I understand that the cost of enabling that one single small exchange was anywhere up to €350k .

Do an FOI then and let us know the results. Should take no more than 30 days (20 working days) as per FOI guidelines. Look forward to reading about it here.

jman

Sponge Bob wrote:

This means that the area from Udarás HQ to Páirc is not served by any BB technology except the delightful VSAT jobbie on the school .

That leaves an underved area about 1 mile each side of Furbo beach and off up the boreens too.

It will be shortly, (hopefully), but this is because somebody has
seen an opportunity and taken the initiative to capture the market for
those BB-less pockets in the area where supply rather than demand is
the issue.

I wish them the very, very, very best.

Altreab

oscarBravo wrote:

Really? I understood that all the Mayo exchanges listed were live. I'd be very surprised if it's that low.

I was trying to be optimistic there oscarBravo!!! For those of you who have Broadband and Irish the programme i mentioned is adhmhaidin

There was further comments in todays programme ....By Eamonn at the end of his Interview from Inis Bó Fine and then Eoin O Riain just afterwards. I havent heard those interviews.

Sponge Bob

Cringely may very well be right but the only opportunity to prove him right , in your area and in your lifetime, has passed you by.

€18 MILLION is being spent today digging your area up as we speak Altreab ...for the water scheme at the top of page 10 of this pdf. Not a single fibre is being laid, not a single duct for future fibre is being installed . No long term thinking at all.

I make that €10k per household if not more.

Nobody is coming back to dig it up again for fibre , not as long as we both live mate.

Better bring Cringely over here pronto

Altreab

Sponge Bob wrote:

Cringely may very well be right but the only opportunity to prove him right , in your area and in your lifetime, has passed you by.

€18 MILLION is being spent today digging your area up as we speak Altreab ...for the water scheme at the top of page 10 of this pdf. Not a single fibre is being laid, not a single duct for future fibre is being installed . No long term thinking at all.

I make that €10k per household if not more.

Nobody is coming back to dig it up again for fibre , not as long as we both live mate.

Better bring Cringely over here pronto

The digging has finished The contractor restorations have been done . Now we just have to wait for the council to do the required finishing works. More than likely waiting for Eamonn O Cuiv to fund them to do what they should be doing already.

Many who worked to get that project worked really hard to get ducting in Spongebob but the council said it would be far too expensive!!
It came in €7 MILLION under budget and took 9 months to lay (council expected it would take 3 years) ..... the council refused to sanction other works in the area which will have to be done in the next couple of years ......but not now!! The Company was more than willing to accomadate them. but NO the council wasnt ready ...... They went ahead and left a 2 mile section of piping untouched ......There is a LOT more but i cant go into it here.


As for getting ducts in ...... anyone know how much armoured fibre is these days?
We might be able to tab into the funding that Greece did .....but then again NO ...cos Noel says we have loadsa money here for spending ....we wont spend it .....but its here for spending!
rant mode OFF

Sponge Bob

Altreab wrote:

The digging has finished The contractor restorations have been done . Now we just have to wait for the council to do the required finishing works.

Are ye not getting sewage (more digging) next year.

Follow them diggers with yer cable

Altreab

Sponge Bob wrote:

Are ye not getting sewage (more digging) next year.

Follow them diggers with yer cable

There is a response to that been suitable for the council but i wouldnt lower myself to say it oh and where the sewers are to be built is within the exchange range!! IF CC is upgraded by then.

damien

damien.m wrote:

Do an FOI then and let us know the results. Should take no more than 30 days (20 working days) as per FOI guidelines. Look forward to reading about it here.

Any progress with the FOI?