TENANT FROM HELL, urgent help needed!!!!

Prowler

Hi All,

What could one do if one was the owner of a house and they took in a short term tenant who paid a deposit and pays the weekly rent at the start of the week.

That tenant then does not pay the rent for the last week and instead says to the landlord to use the deposit instead of paying the rent for that week and then gives the landlord 4 days notice (when the agreed notice was 2 weeks).

The tenant then changes her mind and expects a "refund" for the 3 days that she wont be there, and unless she gets the "refund" she is going to keep the key. Bearing in mind that this girl is a really bad person and could potentially do something bad is she still has the key after she moves out.

Does anybody know what a Landlords rights are here???

GreeBo

call the cops?

Beruthiel

change the locks

subway

Beruthiel wrote:

change the locks

second that.
whats to stop her copying a key anyway.

if she mighjt do something stupid, i wouldnt count on taking a key back as being the end of it

Cantab.

Prowler wrote:

Hi All,

What could one do if one was the owner of a house and they took in a short term tenant who paid a deposit and pays the weekly rent at the start of the week.

That tenant then does not pay the rent for the last week and instead says to the landlord to use the deposit instead of paying the rent for that week and then gives the landlord 4 days notice (when the agreed notice was 2 weeks).

The tenant then changes her mind and expects a "refund" for the 3 days that she wont be there, and unless she gets the "refund" she is going to keep the key. Bearing in mind that this girl is a really bad person and could potentially do something bad is she still has the key after she moves out.

Does anybody know what a Landlords rights are here???

Firstly, I assume there was a written agreement. Verbal ones, while still valid, do not stand up in court.

She's in breach of contract for failing to provide 2 weeks' notice, therefore she is not entitled to her deposit back.

AFAIK, you're entitled to the full weeks' rent for her final week and her depostit as there's a clear breach of contract.

I'd report her to the Gardai for threathing you (and your property), change your locks and bring her to court for the cost of her failing to return the key resulting in you having to change your locks.

Might be just as well to just tell the Gardai, change your locks and forget about it. If she comes near your house or attempts anything like illegal trespass, you can come down on her like a ton of bricks.

Also, make sure you make your position clinically clear to her.

(BTW, I'm not an expert)

Prowler

I have called the police but they said it is a civil matter, i.e. via a solicitor etc.

The other alternative is to change the locks yes, but that would cost me a lot of money AND she is on talking terms with the other tenant there, so to cover all angles and worst case scenario, the nice tenant could give her the new key if i changed the locks...

Kimbot

Well she is no longer a tenant so she should not be given a key Full Stop!!

JimmySmith

Prowler wrote:

I have called the police but they said it is a civil matter, i.e. via a solicitor etc.

The police are taking the pi$$.
She has stolen your key. Thats not a civil offence, thats a crime. If she threatens you its also a crime. Record any conversations with her and then give them to the police too.

bandraoi

Whether or not a tenant returns the key, whether or not they are a nasty person, whether or not everything is ended on good terms,

you should ALWAYS change the locks at the end of a tenancy.

It is simply good practice for your own peace of mind of for your future tenants peace of mind.

As for saying "but it will cost me money"
so does basic maintenance of the house etc.
Changing the locks at the end of a tenancy is simply one of the costs of being a landlord and you should have budgeted for it when you worked out what rent to charge.

As for your tenant from hell who is moving out.
Point out to her that in fact she is the one who owes you money.
Write out the calculations on a piece of paper and give her a copy.
You won't get it, but she'll probably stop hassling you for money too.
A weeks rent is at most E150 I'm guessing, so if I were you I'd just let it rest coz a solicitor is likely to cost you a hell of a lot more money.

Prowler

I am changing the locks tonight for €130, you are completely right, its a basic maintenance cost which should be budgeted for and for peace of mind.

Thanks for all your help people. Its my first time to rent out to anybody and i have learned a lot from this extreme case.

Sponge Bob

These bitches are more common than you think. My sister changed locks on one a few months back and was delighted to be shot of her.

FillSpectre

Prowler wrote:

Hi All,

What could one do if one was the owner of a house and they took in a short term tenant who paid a deposit and pays the weekly rent at the start of the week.
etc..

I don't get what is so bad about this tenant. What have the exactly done other than diagree about some moeny while they were leaving. Pay her the 3 days rent and be done with it.

Prowler

Yeah. She didnt pay this weeks rent (which should have been paid last thursday) and she told me she would be leaving on the 17th of this month (as initially agreed this would be the term of notice for leaving). She then decided on saturday that she would be moving out 2moro. AND she said that because i put a password on MY computer in MY bedroom she wanted a "refund". Can you believe that? I did her a favour for 3 weeks and only when she started to act crazy did i put a password on it. She wasnt even on talking terms with me so i didnt think she was still using my bedroom and computer when i wasnt there....

I let her use MY computer in MY bedroom for free for 3 weeks, and about a week ago she started to hate me because i ate one of her pancakes (i thought she left it out for me to eat) and so here we are...

FillSpectre

Prowler wrote:

Yeah. She didnt pay this weeks rent (which should have been paid last thursday) and etc..

OK doesn't sound that bad still. You are obviously renting out a room in your home and did not set ground rules and explain things very well.

Simply put you are to blame for this situation by not being clear from the start. Chalk it down to experience and have clear demarkation lines about tenancy rules next time. BEst to get a friend or a recommended person for such lets if you ask me.

Just get her out and change the locks. I really don't understand how you or why you wouldn't think about reasonable precasutions given that everybody knows the possibilities of people being unreasonable

Prowler

Yes Fillspectre, I completely agree with you, i didnt lay the groud rules out on paper and in detail, as it was my 1st time i was a bit ignorant and trusting. It is my fault for allowing the situation to get like this because i didnt have all the angles covered. Next time, contracts will be signed and every possible eventuality will be covered therein.

Prowler

Oh i forgot the tell you the list of things she has done in the meantime:

- She has sent me numerous threatening and rude text messages
- She has threatened to keep the key
- Usually on Sunday night i sleep in my girlfriends house and dont come back until the next night, she knew this and purposly left the gas heating on full blast, i came back last night "unexpectedly" at 1:30am to find this out.
- She has accused me of being responsible for her missing job interviews because she said the water was cold so she cudnt have a shower and that was MY fault ???!!!
- she has accused me of stealing her food only to find out the next day that i didnt
- She has ignored me in the house, and then still went into my bedroom to use my computer
- she has told me that she is suing her ex employer (i found this out when we were "friends")
- theres a few more things too....

Prowler

Prowler wrote:

Oh i forgot the tell you the list of things she has done in the meantime:

- She has sent me numerous threatening and rude text messages
- She has threatened to keep the key

Do you have any of the threats still on your phone/in writing? Might get the cops moving.

seamus

She just sounds like a complete nutjob.

Luckily, because she's a lodger (she's only a tenant if you don't live there), she has little rights. You have the right to throw her out on her ear with no notice. Hold onto her deposit, change the locks like you've planned, and then report her to the Gardai if she continues harassing you.

Some people are just crazy. Especially if you're going to be living with the person, try and get some references (even if it's just her current employer). Did you chat to her before she moved in, or was she "a friend of a friend"? As a rule, I'd say to avoid people who are "between jobs", and insist on rent being paid monthly instead of weekly (except if you know the person well).

Prowler

Yes i still have her text messages, she said most of the theats in person, the police wont do anything, if things do get worse i will have to make a statement...

Seamus are you sure about the things you said about a lodger? So i can throw her out immediately???? I am the owner of the house and i live there!!!!

seamus

If she's a lodger, you can pretty much eject her straight away. I don't have time to check this out, but I did check it out a while back.

A few years ago, the Student's Union had a big furore over the eviction of four students with no notice. The landlord maintained that because of the configuration of the house, the students were lodgers, not tenants.

Misty Moon

Prowler, check www.oasis.gov.ie for more information on what she/you are entitled to do. Also the PRTB and Threshold may have info for you. I'm really not sure that if someone is a lodger they have less rights than a tenant.

There are two issues obviously, one is getting rid of her and the other is what to do going forward. For the first time last year when I moved into a new house I was surprised to see that on the contract which was otherwise a fairly standard lease, there were additional conditions which I had to agree to saying that I would clean and hoover the house every second week, cut the grass every second week in summer and once a month in winter. I had no problem with this as I knew the other person in the house had had to sign the same and it works very well as we both knew from the start what was expected. My house is part-owner-occupied (the owner uses the third room in the house but is only there for one or two nights a month usually) so technically speaking you could call me a lodger rather than a tenant but the contract I signed was the same as any other lease I've ever signed (except for the additions about cleaning) and I don't think I have any less rights just because the landlord/owner sometimes lives there.

Edit: just had a quick look on Oasis (http://www.oasis.gov.ie/housing/buying_a_house_or_flat/rent_a_room_scheme.html) and whether the tenant has full rights or not seems to depend on whether you're renting under the Rent-a-Room scheme or not. So, whether she's got full rights or not depends on how much rent you take from her and anyone else paying rent in the house. As long as it's less than 7,620 euro in total in the year (635 per month in total) then it looks like she's not covered by the Residential Tenacies Act.

seamus

Misty Moon wrote:

Prowler, check www.oasis.gov.ie for more information on what she/you are entitled to do. Also the PRTB and Threshold may have info for you. I'm really not sure that if someone is a lodger they have less rights than a tenant.
..........
So, whether she's got full rights or not depends on how much rent you take from her and anyone else paying rent in the house. As long as it's less than 7,620 euro in total in the year (635 per month in total) then it looks like she's not covered by the Residential Tenacies Act.

The Residential Tenancies Act 2004 doesn't apply in the case where the landlord lives in the same house as the tenant, regardless of all other factors

(2) Subject to section 4(2), this Act does not apply to any of the
following dwellings—
....
(g) a dwelling within which the landlord also resides,
...

Prowler

Update:

She is still here but I got someone to replace both the back door and the front door locks, it cost me 130 euros...ouch!

I was talking to her today (trying to) and she went absolutely ballistic, she accused me of trying to intimidate her, she threatened me saying "you're finished", i wont even go into what else she said to me and accused me of, you wudnt believe it if i told you.

Annnnyways thanks Seamus and Misty Moon for your help. Shes only been here 3.5 weeks now and it was only ever a short term agreement between us both, she (used to-before she stopped paying rent) pay me on a weekly basis. So she doesnt fall into the "rent a room" scheme by a long shot.

I'll update you all 2moro, this should be interesting....

Misty Moon

seamus wrote:

The Residential Tenancies Act 2004 doesn't apply in the case where the landlord lives in the same house as the tenant, regardless of all other factors

This is interesting from my own point of view as our set-up is not a conventional owner-occupied one nor is it me simply leasing the house (which is what I've done previously) so I think I'm going to have to look into it further. Don't anticipate ever having any problems as I get on really well with the people who own the house but it never hurts to be sure of your position.

Victor

seamus wrote:

If she's a lodger, you can pretty much eject her straight away.

Contract is still contract. You can't throw out a compliant tenant, who is fully paid up, just because you feel like it.

Of course this tenant would appear to be nothing like this.

OP, if she's gone today good. If she wants back in, she has to come up with €XXX first. If she wants her stuff, have it ready in the hall for her to take. Buy her a packet of supermarket pancakes while you are at it and say good riddance.

PS She sounds like she has problems, too many problems, not that she is 'bad'.

Prowler

Update:

Shes gone. She went yesterday after she hurled much abuse at me, threatened me again saying that "It's not over" and many other things like that, infact if i were to tell you things she was saying you wudnt believe me...really.

There were no contracts signed, somebody told me that if there are no contracts signed she is just a licencee, which is the equivalent of being a guest in a hotel....

I have learned a lot from this experience and will be much more vigilent and suspicous in the future i.e. i wont just trust people and take them at their word.

PS This girl had serious problems when it came to logic, communication, rationality and thought that people were discriminating against her, she made fabrications and lied so much that i think she actually believed it herself. She stole my back door keys during her stay and thus this door remained unlocked for a week or more, threatened me and accused me of intimidation. She also came into my private bedroom and denied it, even though i set a "trap" with youghurt cartons to verify this.

shoegirl

Prowler wrote:

Yeah. She didnt pay this weeks rent (which should have been paid last thursday) and she told me she would be leaving on the 17th of this month (as initially agreed this would be the term of notice for leaving). She then decided on saturday that she would be moving out 2moro. AND she said that because i put a password on MY computer in MY bedroom she wanted a "refund". Can you believe that? I did her a favour for 3 weeks and only when she started to act crazy did i put a password on it. She wasnt even on talking terms with me so i didnt think she was still using my bedroom and computer when i wasnt there....

I let her use MY computer in MY bedroom for free for 3 weeks, and about a week ago she started to hate me because i ate one of her pancakes (i thought she left it out for me to eat) and so here we are...

Lucky you! Are you sure this isn't one of my ex-psycho flatmates from hell from 5-7 years back?

As you are actually living in the house I'm afraid her rights are limited. Change the locks, pack her bags nearly and place them outside the door. Tell your other tenant gentley in no circumstances is this wan to be given a key.

I had a co-tenant like that in London, myself and the landlord colluded to get the locks changed. The legal argument is "I lost my key."