New House - Design ideas/Features - laundry chutes, central vacuum systems etc

Naux

sas wrote:

You are not supposed to use softened water for infants bottles.

We have a water softener and a 1.5 year old. Installed the softener a year ago. Even the installer told us this.

Nurses etc all said it too.

We have a new arrival(our first) due in the next couple of days:D so it is good to have the info...

Tks sas

Pocari Sweat

The low down of sodium content in softened water is this:

The Health Boards can test softened water for sodium content and they should find it is below the 200 ppm safe drinking limit, or well below, and therefore pass it as being potable and safe for human consumption.

The salt we take into our diets is mainly by food, and from the 10% trace levels of salt found in food naturally, manufacturers add about 75% of sodium in things as obvious as bacon, ham, tinned and processed foods etc, to the less obvious as cereals which often contain higher salt concentrations weight for weight than salted peanuts. And we add around 15% ourselves via the salt shaker.

A slice of bacon, contains more sodium than a gallon (8 pints) of softened water. Most Heinz soups have 1.2 grams in a 440 ml tin. We would have to drink about 20 equivalent size tins of soft water or say 10 litres of the average soft water, to be approximate, to exceed our daily allowance.

The plumbers or nurses who avoid softened water for drinking may have anecdotal fears because of the trace presence of sodium in softened water but may not realise the far higher amounts of sodium hidden in all sorts of foods.

Some doctors may recommend ex-cardiac patients with high blood pressure looking to reduce sodium levels on all fronts, and may include a reduced intake of softened water. We drink a variety of fluids like tea, coffee, juices, milk etc, so we would be hardly affected by a small percentage of sodium in softened water more so as we don't drink it exclusively. Less processed food, pork and additions of salt on chips etc will reduce salt levels - if there is concern sodium levels are too high.

The World Health Organisation and our own Health Authorities advise an RDA or recommended daily allowance of 6 grams of salt which is 2.4 grams of sodium for adults. It is the foremost mineral we use on a daily basis for most vital bodily functions - control of body temperature via perspiration, sodium is used in many fluids - eye lubrication, seminal fluid etc, and 100's of other bodily requirements.

We tend to exceed salt intake, (average figures list 8 grams a day across the population), but our renal system (kidneys) gets rid of it, filtering it out via urination. A thirst signal is sent from our hyperthalamus making us drink more water, thereby diluting sodium concentrations followed by urination.

Diuretics or fluid losing drinks such as tea, coffee, cola and alcohol are not recommended as healthy, because they make us lose more fluid than we gain. The best way of hydrating the body is by drinking water, fruit juices and milk.

Water softeners work on a catalytic exchange of calcium ions for sodium ions known as cation exchange.

This means hard water with calcium carbonate at a level of 300 ppm will soften by an exchange of sodium usually to a bit less than 300 ppm. Sodium is the lesser part of sodium chloride (common salt), and is 40% of the molecular weight of sodium chloride

So 300 ppm of sodium chloride in water is around 120 ppm of sodium alone. So the official line by the Health Authorities, EPA and EU drinking water directives from 1988 onwards, state that a limit of 200 ppm is acceptable for sodium in water and at these levels are too low to taste.

beolight

regarding water softener issues

you can get your plumber to run seperate waterpipe to kitchen,upstairs bathroom anywhere you might need unsoftened drinking water also get him to fit filter unit on these i.e bypassing water softener

p.s dont forget run seperate waterpipe unsoftened to were you are going to put your big fat american style freezer, if your not getting one now still run one and leave it under your kitchen where you can get at it easy enough

also why not look at rainwater harvesting and forget about water softener?

Viking House

Very interesting Pocari.

antoinolachtnai

I agree that a clean-running water softener is not going to be a problem in general.

What I worry about a little though, is the process of renewing the water softener (i.e., getting the calcium back out of it and putting sodium back in) might leave an excess of sodium salt lying around in the system and this might cause an issue.

Obviously this will not happen where the softener is well run. But I worry about the 'edge case' where the softener might be somehow faulty or not properly maintained.

Is this a legitimate worry to have, or am I being unreasonable?

beolight

lots of ideas here uk house of the future article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4594723.stm

a follow up of it http://www.easier.com/view/News/Property/article-37088.html

Pocari Sweat

antoinolachtnai wrote:

I agree that a clean-running water softener is not going to be a problem in general.

What I worry about a little though, is the process of renewing the water softener (i.e., getting the calcium back out of it and putting sodium back in) might leave an excess of sodium salt lying around in the system and this might cause an issue.

Obviously this will not happen where the softener is well run. But I worry about the 'edge case' where the softener might be somehow faulty or not properly maintained.

Is this a legitimate worry to have, or am I being unreasonable?

Yes, you are probably getting right to the roots of the fear of salt in softened water there.

Normal soft water is safe to drink, but a softener has a very slight risk, probably less than 1%, of getting caught out by a prolonged ESB power failure for over say 6 hours, which would have to start at around 2:10 am to 3.10 am on the particular day of when a softener is set to perform its "regeneration" and its 2nd cycle brining function.

Then the softener owner would have to complete this unusual sequence of events by heading straight for the softener in the morning and resetting the valve head to skip the 3rd, 4th and 5th cycles of the "regen" sequence to allow the brine caught in the main vessel of the water softener on the 2nd cycle, to then enter the household water, (on some valveheads). But if forewarned they can set the softener to perform a manual regeneration immediately and clear out the brine in the main vessel, they suspect the power cut started between 2.10 to 3.10 or thereabouts, and carried on for some time.

In the odd case where this happens an excess of brine may enter the header tank of a house feeding the baths, toilets, loos etc, which means you may happen to brush your teeth and the water tastes salty but the contents of the average 50 to 70 gallon header tank usually only last for less than half a day on the average 160 gallon a day household water consumption.

Normal soft water, having trace levels of sodium, has absolutely no effect on pipes, or other parts of the plumbing system or appliances, where as lime in hard water certainly will cause hard scaling on anything from the cold domestic pipe feeds to a lesser extent to the worst scaling found around the hotter parts of the plumbing system (but not affecting to any degree the closed loop of the household heating system, whatever any water treatment company might claim).

A reverse osmosis filter can also be fitted on softened water to provide the purest level of drinking water at the kitchen sink, plumbed to an additional small drinking faucet, or using a combined hot and cold "triflow" mixer tap with built-in filter feed.

A water softener will easily remove over 99% of lime found in the hardest water, and a reverse osmosis filter will then follow on to remove up to 99.99% of any harmful toxins including heavy metals, chlorine etc, and if sodium is present at around 120 ppm, it will have a further reduction of around 95% of the remainder trace level of sodium to a nearly non-existent level. It also performs well in removing nitrates and nitrites at around 85 to 95% reduction, when these are found to be borderline in drinking limits from flooding of farmland and subsequent ingress to water sources.

Naux

Naux wrote:

We have a new arrival(our first) due in the next couple of days:D so it is good to have the info...

Tks sas

New arrival is a baby girl 9lbs born Saturday 15-07-06:D

sas

Naux wrote:

New arrival is a baby girl 9lbs born Saturday 15-07-06:D

Congratulations. Taking on a house build and having a new baby at the same time. Glutten for punishment

hotlips_h

Congratulations on the new arrival.

You are lucky to have the opportunity to build from scratch.

As well as what others have suggested, I would consider the following:
- putting all sleeping areas downstairs and living areas upstairs to benefit from maximum light in living areas and lower temperatures in sleeping areas
- a laundry room where you can leave the ironing board permanently set up

Qwerty?

Congratulation Naux. I started building two years ago a few weeks before our first was born. Sas is right.:D .
But now you have a very special reason to get the house built.

A few things I would recommend would be:-

Central Vacuum system. We find it brilliant for wooden floors rather than dragging a hoover after you, very quiet (unit is in ext. garage) and great suction. And the Sweep up point in the kitchen is very handy.

A Quatity based Water Softener - as it only rejunvenates when a preset quatity of water is used, rather than after a preset time. But also run a normal mains pipe to the kitchen sink. We then installed a Triflow tap, so we have softened hot and cold, and normal drinking water at the kitchen sink.

UFH and geothermal. Discussed at length in other threads.

Hollowcore and concrete stairs - safety aspect and noise.

And a pressurised plumbing system - or shower at the very least and don't forget the speakers in the bathroom ceiling... essential;)

Mellor

I'd put alot of thought into the kitchen units. Get them perfect and you'll live longer. I'd reccomment a slide out larder unit. Corner unit is important too, look at whats available (folding door, rotary shelfs. and see what you like. Also a cheap but very good idea is a pull out ironing board. It goes in the top drawer (where you would normally find knifes etc.) and opens like a regular drawer and the board fold out then. Very neat and tidy and any guest open it looking for cuterly and tell how much they like it and how clever you are.

Naux

Mellor wrote:

Also a cheap but very good idea is a pull out ironing board. It goes in the top drawer (where you would normally find knifes etc.) and opens like a regular drawer and the board fold out then. Very neat and tidy and any guest open it looking for cuterly and tell how much they like it and how clever you are.

A pull out ironing board is a very smart idea indeed and has just been added to my list of definites:)

Naux

hotlips_h wrote:

I would consider the following:
- putting all sleeping areas downstairs and living areas upstairs to benefit from maximum light in living areas and lower temperatures in sleeping areas

Interesting concept. A friend of mine has a fabulous house designed like that but it is built into the side of a hill so the design suits because on the upper level at the back there are lawns etc. which you can just walk out onto.

On a flat site though you'd have to run downstairs to go out onto a lawn/patio area which would be a pain after a while especially with kids.

iplogger1

For central vacuuming systems (such as Beam, etc).
Is ducting required in blockwork or is it at the plastering/chasing
stage that house purchaser needs to make it clear to plasterers/
tradesmen/subcontractors that they require ducts for a central
vac system ?

Also, I seem to recall someone saying that the central vacuum
systems are very noisy. Can anyone confirm or refute this ?

What is the usual outlay required say for 2 storey house and
Beam (or equiv) system ?

~ipxl

Naux

iplogger1 wrote:

Also, I seem to recall someone saying that the central vacuum
systems are very noisy. Can anyone confirm or refute this ?

What is the usual outlay required say for 2 storey house and
Beam (or equiv) system ?

~ipxl

My friend has one in and he says its not noisy unless you are standing right beside it in the utility room while it is in use(how many times will that be:p )

Roughly 1500 to 2250 euro seems the norm from what I've heard but I have not checked myself yet.

AJL

Need to run a 4" pipe out to the garage. 90 degree low radius bind waven pipe. This needs to be done before slab is poured. Am putting it in the garage as it is handy if you want to clean the car.
This of course is not needed if you are putting in utility. I am doing a timber frame and they wll install pipework behind platerboard.

squire1

iplogger1 wrote:

For central vacuuming systems (such as Beam, etc).
Is ducting required in blockwork or is it at the plastering/chasing
stage that house purchaser needs to make it clear to plasterers/
tradesmen/subcontractors that they require ducts for a central
vac system ?

Also, I seem to recall someone saying that the central vacuum
systems are very noisy. Can anyone confirm or refute this ?

What is the usual outlay required say for 2 storey house and
Beam (or equiv) system ?

~ipxl

I put one in a block built house and put the pipework in before the floor slab was poured at first fix plumbing stage. The blocklayer then left space around the rising pipes on the internal blockwork. It needs to be second fixed then before the plasterers start.

They are a little bit louder than a conventional vacume but because the power unit is remote, this should not cause any problem. The only sound you will hear when using it is the suction noise.

Suction is very powerful. The unit I got was from Vacuflo, suitable for 2500SqFt and cost aound €1000 which included the power unit (true Cyclonic, no bags required) all pipework and all accessories.

I can't speak for Beam but if you send Pat in Vacuflo a copy of your floor plan he will get back to you with a pipework layout to suit your house. It is very easy to install. The only advice I can give is to avoid using short radius bends where possible. The long radius bends reduce the possibility on blockages.

tribesman

When comparing quotes for central vac systems make sure that they are for the same number of outlets so that you're comparing like with like. Some suppliers may quote for just a few outlets and supply a big long hose.The more outlets the better as it reduces the length of the hose you need to carry round. A big long hose could be just as cumbersome as dragging round an ordinary vacuum.

squire1

The extra outlets are a minimal cost. I got three extra thrown in for free. If you are paying for installation, that may be a different matter.

tribesman

squire1 wrote:

The extra outlets are a minimal cost. I got three extra thrown in for free. If you are paying for installation, that may be a different matter.

Yeah, that's what I meant. A company will have to charge more to install plenty outlets. They can give a cheaper quote by specifying the mimimum number of outlets and give you a long hose.

The outlets and piping are indeed cheap. I installed my own and didn't spare the outlets which means I have three outlets in a couple of the bigger rooms. This means my hose will only have to be about 15 feet. I haven't bought the power unit yet though. It cost me about 250euro for the piping and outlets.

big_ron

Naux wrote:

Interesting concept. A friend of mine has a fabulous house designed like that but it is built into the side of a hill so the design suits because on the upper level at the back there are lawns etc. which you can just walk out onto.

On a flat site though you'd have to run downstairs to go out onto a lawn/patio area which would be a pain after a while especially with kids.

Hi Naux,

I'm interesed in doing something very similar to that, but my architect doesn't seem keen and would rather we went for a more conventional house and built a retaining wall to hold back the hill.... It would be great if you could post some more details about the design.

cheers,
Gary

Builderwoman!

Walk in Wardrobes....have them in all beds and they are fab and save a fortune on buying wardrobes

As many ensuites as poss

Walk in larder...brilliant we have it too and love it

As much light as you can

Solar

Woodpellet boiler

Rain water harvesting...given current weather!

galwaytt

Builderwoman! wrote:

Walk in Wardrobes....have them in all beds and they are fab and save a fortune on buying wardrobes

As many ensuites as poss

Walk in larder...brilliant we have it too and love it

As much light as you can

Solar

Woodpellet boiler

Rain water harvesting...given current weather!

ditto on walk-in wardrobes
...but no on all the ensuites. There is no actual necessity for everyone in the house to have their own bathrooms. They're expensive, take up too much space, need to be maintained/cleaned (by you, presumably.....????). Better invest the space/time/money in bigger better bedrooms/robes and in the main bathroom. (I would put an ensuite on the Master, though..)
Larder/pantry, yep
Light - absolutely
Solar - deffo
Woodpellet - only if you get it for free........
Rain water harvesting............well considering water metering is coming, a good idea. And, if everyone in the audience gets their own bathroom, you'll need it.
Central Vacuum - I've a Beam just in, and it was 2.2k iirc, for a 316 sq m house.
UFH - everywhere - I have it in the garage as well.........

looksee

Agree on ensuites, small children and ensuites are a no-no, family bathroom much more practical. Wet room definitely. Pantry great idea (on a north wall, outside the range of heating, or insulated from inside. You don't have to try and get the turkey into the fridge at Christmas (:D ). Outside tap and power points. Outside lights on all corners if you are in the country.

Have some sort of gas cooking, then when the power cuts start....
Dont put up blinds till the house has dried out. Record all services, including cables chased into walls, not vital, but a great help later.

Builderwoman!

Can see your point on ensuites. You can always lock them and not use them until your children are older and you can trust them! If your sleeping accomodation is upstairs it can be difficult and costly to add in extra plumbing later for ensuites if you change your mind. Ultimately depends on your family size (or predicted size in the future) how much time you spend in the house, guests etc.

Def agree with UF too...forgot to mention that...it's fab but don't put it down under timber floors....do a combo of ufh and rads if you intend having timber floors in any rooms.

Outside hot water tap. We have it and it's great for car washing, filling paddling pools, cleaning stuff etc. Not that we need it this weather for cars washing or pools!!!!!!!

Agree with Gas cooking also if in country...a must.

A cloak room. We have one and it's great. All coats together in one spot and out of sight!

qazxsw

UFH works grand under timber flooring - I have it installed and working for 6 mths year with geothermal - use semisolid and glue the boards directly to the concrete (after making sure it's very level - use self levelling compound or sand & cement if you have bad surface)

If putting in central vacuum system it's useful to have an outlet somewhere near where you can park your car - that way you can use the long flex for regular easy spring clean of car interior.

Also insulate, insulate, insulate !!

secman

1. Sensors for heating system particularily if a holiday home, during winter months if temp drops to say 2 degrees the pump will kick in and running water won't freeze and a 2nd sensor to kick the boiler/ burner in if it drops to zero. Also a dial in in the system to put the heat on whilst you are heading down.

2. Surround sound for tv room

3. Put in a central music coms cabinet. Wire for speakers in main sitting room that can link into surround sound. Also wire speakers for kitchen / dining room, Sun Room, master bedroom and finally outddor speakers for Decking area.Wire it so that her indoors can listen to her fav cd whilst doing the dinner and you are listening to the footy on the radio in one of the other zones ! Everyone is happy.

Secman