Only in the North.........

Diogenes

my_house wrote:

youve shown me elements of tribalism, which obivoulsy exist (as it does in sport and many other aspects of life) but you havent backed up your orignal claim int his thread. Oscar Bravo did try to twist this aspect around, but you did state "Tribal stupidity would be a fair and accurate description of much of what goes on up there." which is incorrect. "Tribal stupidity happens on occasion up there." would have been more accurate.

You're now reduced to semantic quibbling. Most places have four seasons, the north is one of the few places where tribal stupidity is honoured with its own season. The level of rioting and sectarian conflict is far greater than in any part of these Islands, they publicaly and loudly display their tribal badges. While I would not tarnish the entire population with such a claim, I would suggest that it plays a far more active role than it should in a normal civilised society

darkman2

flogen wrote:

Talk of an All-Ireland economy quickly dried up, however when it was clear that more than half of the population of NI would be against it not to mention the fact that an All-Ireland economy is basically reunification in disguise. Of course the UK wish NI wasn't as expensive as it is, it doesn't mean they want rid of it

What does that tell you about 50%+ of voters in NI?. That an obvious economic benefit to them, their not interested in. Not for economic purposes but for tribal ones. Never mind the fact their not ppl to be lecturing us on economics. If they had any sort of a credible economy up there then maybe I would understand that argument more...

The north is not an ordinary society.

philologos

there is tribalism on both loyalist and republican sides to be fair. Considering this is a sectarian conflict, people need to actually realise that there is hardly any differences between Catholicism and other forms of Protestantism (mainly Presbyterianism). Religion is simply being used as a reason to incite hatred to other political groupings in our society.

It's time to realise that there also isn't many differences between the people who are currently living there and that it's more constructive to work together instead of incite hatred by burning the tricolour etc. I'd also like to say that it's time for both groupings to cop on and help reinforce a non-sectarian society.

and to darkmans last post. It would effectively be an economic reunification of Northern Ireland with the Republic. It's the political side that matters to these people unfortunately and it is going to take more time to change it.

Sleepy

my_house wrote:

why are you people on a politics forum when you dont seem to have a grasp of your own countries politics. links of the sf webstore proves everyone in the north is tribal? some of you dont even understand the shakey foundations of the peace process by the looks of it. Maybe I shouldnt bother having any debates on this forum until a lot of people on here wise up a bit and cop on.

To be quite honest, my_house, many of us don't regard them as the politics of our own country. I live in the Republic of Ireland. In my opinion Northern Ireland is a problem for the UK, not my government.

fly_agaric

my_house wrote:

"Tribal stupidity happens on occasion up there." would have been more accurate.

No, tribal stupidity happens regularly in NI would be more accurate.

At least its not violent any more most of the time.

Jakkass wrote:

It's time to realise that there also isn't many differences between the people who are currently living there and that it's more constructive to work together instead of incite hatred by burning the tricolour etc.

Maybe they can both unite in mutual hatred of immigrants to NI?

biko

fly_agaric wrote:

Maybe they can both unite in mutual hatred of immigrants to NI?

Well, at least neither camp are too fond of Free Staters.

darkman2 wrote:

I think the North is very tribalist. Go under the thin respecting surface and its boiling. Its split along sectarian lines. Its politics are split along sectarian lines. Its about Religion, being British or Irish.

What about the OO drums with 'KIA' on them?? I heard that, that meant 'kill all Irish'. Now I dont know whether thats true but thats an example of what Im talking about.

Shouldn't that be KAI? Seems far fetched tbh.

The tribalism is evident in certain areas, murals and painted kerb-stones in some towns in Antrim, Down and Derry. Outside of these areas life is normal, like anywhere else in Ireland.

Switch of the telly and go and see for yourselves (if yous haven't been yet).

Maskhadov

northern ireland ... who cares ?????????? were rich and they are the poor north koreans. Burn whatever the hell they like. It wont improve their miserable lives one bit. We can look forward to prosperity and progress while they can look forward to more poverty, discrimination and racial hatred.

nordydan

I am from south down, please repartition the north so that I can live in a normal society like the republic with normal politics and modern issues. Take fermanagh, tyrone, most of derry and south armagh and south down. leave the rest. believe me this new territory places would calm down very quickly. I want my children to live in downpatrick, but in a society away from this unending ****e. Downpatrick is very quiet, nationalist. Perhaps the doziest town in the north (maybe enniskillen as well).

Build a wall around the rest.

PS It was KAI from Rathcoole - kill all irish. The OO tried to say it was named after after a footballer, but this is horse****.

biko

nordydan wrote:

PS It was KAI from Rathcoole - kill all irish. The OO tried to say it was named after after a footballer, but this is horse****.

http://www.sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/an_un_kai_nee_coincidence/

dahamsta

my_house wrote:

i applaud your deep understanding of irish politics.

Heh, and he wasn't even trying. Double points for Mike.

jonnieConnors

Maskhadov wrote:

northern ireland ... who cares ?????????? were rich and they are the poor north koreans. Burn whatever the hell they like. It wont improve their miserable lives one bit. We can look forward to prosperity and progress while they can look forward to more poverty, discrimination and racial hatred.

You sound American. Greedy, simple and oafish. God bless this country if your type ever fully takes control.

oscarBravo

jonnieConnors wrote:

You sound American. Greedy, simple and oafish. God bless this country if your type ever fully takes control.

Not a smart move, my_house. Not a smart move at all.

Hobbes

You know I saw a clip on it and I had to laugh.

They showed one bonefire about 8ft away from an actual shop and wrapped around a lamppost. Meanwhile the shopkeeper is arguing with the people who own it, while a BBC presenter goes on like "Here we see a local trader negotiating how close the bonefire is to his shop".

I mean ffs if it was any other day what they would be doing is arson.

And then the best part they showed this huuuugggee bonfire with a little tricolor on top. Covered in car tires happly sitting right beside the lake that handles the water supply.

Clearly chemical poisoning is totally alien to some people. Although I had visions of Ian going on TV a few days later to proclaim that republican terrorists had poisoned the flag they set fire to.

Other then that.. meh. Burning the flag would only upset me if I cared about who did it. I don't really care for sectarian assholes tbh.

Sand

Nuke them from orbit. Its the only way to be sure.

BillyCom

Here's a typical Northern Ireland based blogger's view of things

http://atangledweb.typepad.com/weblog/2006/07/light_my_fire.html#comments

Says a lot about the creatures that inhabit that part of Ireland, doesnt it :rolleyes:

nordydan

BillyCom wrote:

Here's a typical Northern Ireland based blogger's view of things

http://atangledweb.typepad.com/weblog/2006/07/light_my_fire.html#comments

Says a lot about the creatures that inhabit that part of Ireland, doesnt it :rolleyes:

Bad thought the north is, this aint typical. The man in question is English, and is notorious for hating arabs, scots, irish, pakistanis you name it. The most extreme of a bad lot. remember areas like south down are pretty quiet, if you ever get the opportunity to go to a paddys day parade in downpatrick you will see that its much like the rest of ireland. It is a million miles removed from the events of the last few days. The 11th night resembles the end of "apocalypse now".

darkman2

nordydan wrote:

Bad thought the north is, this aint typical. The man in question is English, and is notorious for hating arabs, scots, irish, pakistanis you name it. The most extreme of a bad lot. remember areas like south down are pretty quiet, if you ever get the opportunity to go to a paddys day parade in downpatrick you will see that its much like the rest of ireland. It is a million miles removed from the events of the last few days. The 11th night resembles the end of "apocalypse now".

Check out that guy comparing us with Nigeria - what a goof. I was listening on the radio to some idiot at an OO parade going on about the 'papist system'. These guys are twisted, they are actually mentally unstable.

nordydan

darkman2 wrote:

Check out that guy comparing us with Nigeria - what a goof. I was listening on the radio to some idiot at an OO parade going on about the 'papist system'. These guys are twisted, they are actually mentally unstable.

They are actually mentally unstable, I agree. On this issue alone, i could actually understand if anyopne down south were in favour of building a wall around the 6 counties.

But remember that these incidents only mainly occur in antrim, north down and north armagh. In areas where unionists have comfortable majorities. There is little reciprocation in border areas where nationalists are in the majority. Do not label us all with the same brush, 45% didnt ask for this setup and it didnt stop Down winning 5 all irelands!

SeanW

Well, speaking of sport, I seem to recall during the recent debate about whether or not "foreign" sports should be allowed in Croke Park during the redevlopement of Lansdown Road. The alternative, of course, forcing Irish "home" games to be played in Cardiff or somewhere suchlike.

The county boards: with near unanimouty voted in favour down South, all against from the Six counties.

The argument had of course been that Soccer and Rugby etc. are "foreign" sports and a threat to the GAA - I don't see any evidence of that but anyways. It seems that Northern nationalists are more prone to the "we're in a battle against the foreigners" kind of mentality. And this seems to apply absolutely everywhere, even in places where it makes almost no logical sense.

Not that I blame them, if I had a bunch of half-wit thugs marching outside my house with orange vests, burning tricolours and threatening violence all the time, I'd be much more prone to sectarian thinking myself.

murphaph

SeanW wrote:

Well, speaking of sport, I seem to recall during the recent debate about whether or not "foreign" sports should be allowed in Croke Park during the redevlopement of Lansdown Road. The alternative, of course, forcing Irish "home" games to be played in Cardiff or somewhere suchlike.

The county boards: with near unanimouty voted in favour down South, all against from the Six counties.

The argument had of course been that Soccer and Rugby etc. are "foreign" sports and a threat to the GAA - I don't see any evidence of that but anyways. It seems that Northern nationalists are more prone to the "we're in a battle against the foreigners" kind of mentality. And this seems to apply absolutely everywhere, even in places where it makes almost no logical sense.

And none of those NI county board members pay southern taxes, taxes which contributed to the Croker redevelopment! Sickening or what. Thankfully they were defeated and I shall be sitting in Headquarters watching the Republic of Ireland -v- Germany in a stadium I helped to build through my taxes.

Ohyeah

:mad:

I thought the Irish flag on the bonfire with Micky Bo's name was sck enough. But check out the story below. This really sick video is being sent around my mobile phones by some young people in the town. Also saw a story about this on the UTV news. I do not think sectarianism is getting better in the north, its great that there is relative peace..but the hate just seems as bad as ever

from Daily Ireland www.dailyireland.com


Video nasty

EXCLUSIVE: Footage mocks murder victim

By Connla Young

14/07/2006

A sick video has been made mocking the brutal sectarian murder of a 15-year-old boy in Co Antrim earlier this year. The video shows footage of Michael McIlveen standing with friends and is subtitled with the words “**** Micky Bo”. The teenager was nicknamed Mickybo.
Michael McIlveen died on May 8, a day after being attacked and beaten by a group of people armed with baseball bats in Ballymena.
....see www.dailyireland.com

Sand

But remember that these incidents only mainly occur in antrim, north down and north armagh. In areas where unionists have comfortable majorities. There is little reciprocation in border areas where nationalists are in the majority. Do not label us all with the same brush, 45% didnt ask for this setup and it didnt stop Down winning 5 all irelands!

TBH, theres probably some unionist talking to some guys in Scotland saying "Oh, but that crazy stuff only happens in the border areas where nationalists are in the majority. Theres no problems round our way, dont label us all with the same brush".

Afterall, Provo marches with guys marching about in balaclavas and pseudo military getup is hardly any more appealing, so South Armagh can shag right off for starters.

The concept of sharing a country with two sets of tribal, bitter, hateful children each waiting for the responsible adults (London and Dublin) to solve their problems for them isnt appealing at all. Especially with the Northern Irish nationalists revelling in lording it over the alienated Unionists, sowing the future with woe.

nordydan

I agree that the northern boards were out of order, anyway they got defeated in a democratic vote so the correct decision was made.

murphaph wrote:

And none of those NI county board members pay southern taxes, taxes which contributed to the Croker redevelopment! Sickening or what. Thankfully they were defeated and I shall be sitting in Headquarters watching the Republic of Ireland -v- Germany in a stadium I helped to build through my taxes.

Point of order there murphaph, and welcome back from your march. I would sincerely doubt that you are a member of the GAA, if you were you would know that northern clubs have contributed greatly to the upkeep of the GAA. Look at the excellent job Crossmaglen Rangers did in maintaining their club in an environment a little poof like yourself would know nothing about. These clubs do contribute to the central coffers, I would suggest a lot more that you would pay in taxes. Theres more to the GAA thaan just paying taxes, there are other contirbutions and efforts made that you would clearly know little about.

Thankfully not everyone in ireland is as rabidly self hating and west british as yourself. By the way, Ireland will be the team in the green if you do go to the match!!

murphaph

nordydan wrote:

Point of order there murphaph, and welcome back from your march. I would sincerely doubt that you are a member of the GAA, if you were you would know that northern clubs have contributed greatly to the upkeep of the GAA. Look at the excellent job Crossmaglen Rangers did in maintaining their club in an environment a little poof like yourself would know nothing about. These clubs do contribute to the central coffers, I would suggest a lot more that you would pay in taxes. Theres more to the GAA thaan just paying taxes, there are other contirbutions and efforts made that you would clearly know little about.

You'll probably be banned for attacking the poster before you get to reply for that little temper tantrum, but anyway, I couldn't give a flying fcuk what VOLUNTARY contributions NI GAA clubs made to Croker. I and the rest of us RoI taxpayers paid INVOLUNTARY contriutions towards it through our taxes, so I and every other southerner has a democratic interest in how it's used. If the GAA don't like that, they shouldn't have taken the money from all of us. As I said though, thankfully the southern county boards and most recent GAA presidents (including the excellent Mr. Kelly from Kerry) are modernisers and don't wish to live in the sectarian past. At every turn though they have faced opposition from the NI county boards, rule 42 etc. etc. Time to smell the 21st century up there. Croker is a magnificent stadium, I'll be a proud man when I sit in it, knowing it's being seen around the world on TV. The world won't stop spinning when they raise the cross of St. George over Croker and play God Save the Queen when Engand rugby come to play. I promise.

nordydan wrote:

Thankfully not everyone in ireland is as rabidly self hating and west british as yourself. By the way, Ireland will be the team in the green if you do go to the match!!

Just because I have little time for the british part of Ireland, doesn't mean I don't care for the republic. By the way, Germany play away in green so if they accidentally left their home strip in Berlin (it has happened), then the home nation would be obliged (under FIFA rules) to play in their away strip, leaving green for the germans, so it isn't guaranteed that the RoI will play in green against Germany

oscarBravo

Take a two week break, nordydan.

I disagree

Ohyeah wrote:

:mad:

I thought the Irish flag on the bonfire with Micky Bo's name was sck enough. But check out the story below. This really sick video is being sent around my mobile phones by some young people in the town. Also saw a story about this on the UTV news. I do not think sectarianism is getting better in the north, its great that there is relative peace..but the hate just seems as bad as ever

from Daily Ireland www.dailyireland.com


Video nasty

EXCLUSIVE: Footage mocks murder victim

By Connla Young

14/07/2006

A sick video has been made mocking the brutal sectarian murder of a 15-year-old boy in Co Antrim earlier this year. The video shows footage of Michael McIlveen standing with friends and is subtitled with the words “**** Micky Bo”. The teenager was nicknamed Mickybo.
Michael McIlveen died on May 8, a day after being attacked and beaten by a group of people armed with baseball bats in Ballymena.
....see www.dailyireland.com

I saw it and it is absolutely disgusting but since Republicans didn't do it, I can't imagine there being many condemnations.

RuggieBear

not exactly a non biased source...

crybaby

daily ireland really are milking this stuff, suprised an incident like this managed to be covered by a national newspaper and television station

SeanW

Hmm ... This most recent debate brings to mind some very ... disturbing posts from Commuting / Transport a few months back.

(Aimed at me and a few others for suggesting that Irish language placenames on roadsigns was pointless)

nordydan wrote:

The angelus is on in just under two hours - when you hear those bells hang your heads in shame and remember your treachery. May the ghosts of Pearse and Connolly haunt you for the rest of your treasonous lives, you sycophantic slaves of perfidious albion. Good lord I fear for this country sometimes.
Enjoy reading the sunday independent in your D4 apartments and spending your daddy's credit cards to buy your cricket playing boyfriends some Pims down in Cafe-en-****. Once the fighting men of crossmaglen get their hands on the ip addresses i have sent them then, there will be only weeping and gnashing of teeth in the dark hours of the night. The butchers apron of the dastardly sassenach will not come to your aid this time. You will not be marching this 12th of July...

oscarBravo

Threads merged.