Only in the North.........

I disagree

RuggieBear wrote:

not exactly a non biased source...

Have you watched the video? It is quite sick and quite real.

crybaby wrote:

daily ireland really are milking this stuff, suprised an incident like this managed to be covered by a national newspaper and television station

Yeah, glorifying a sectarian murder not far from where he was killed.:rolleyes: The bonfires were funded by taxpayers who deserve to know what is happening to it.

Zebra3

darkman2 wrote:

Think about it, a party involved in criminality on a scale we really dont know about and another party full of religious nut jobs at the helm being put in charge.....

Sounds like parties that have been/still are in power in the Free State.

biko wrote:

Shouldn't that be KAI? Seems far fetched tbh.

Not that far fetched. Ever see all the ATD graffiti in the north?

murphaph wrote:

And none of those NI county board members pay southern taxes, taxes which contributed to the Croker redevelopment! Sickening or what. Thankfully they were defeated and I shall be sitting in Headquarters watching the Republic of Ireland -v- Germany in a stadium I helped to build through my taxes.

Yeah, but you can bet your last euro they'd love to be paying taxes to Dublin. It's not their fault they were sold out by Collins & co.

murphaph wrote:

By the way, Germany play away in green so if they accidentally left their home strip in Berlin (it has happened), then the home nation would be obliged (under FIFA rules) to play in their away strip, leaving green for the germans, so it isn't guaranteed that the RoI will play in green against Germany

No they don't.
http://www.kitbag.com/stores/kitbag_4_5/football/WCNoStock.aspx?catID=4421

murphaph

Well they used to, and I believe it's because we were the first country to play against the FRG after WWII. As for the NI county board members, I'm sure they would like to be paying taxes to Dublin, that's not the point, the point is that they don't, yet attempted to block a stadium in the RoI, built with assistance from RoI taxpayers (without their having a choice in it) from being used by other sports. If they are so keen on being a part of the RoI, perhaps they should have taken the hint from the overwhelming number of RoI county boards who voted in favour of opening HQ for 'foreign sports' (even though compromise rules and american football and Neil Diamond have all played in Croker numerous times :rolleyes: )

solskjaer20

Because to be part of a country you have to agree with opinions in certain other parts of the country?

In fact maybe we should have a one-party state.

Glenbhoy

As for the NI county board members, I'm sure they would like to be paying taxes to Dublin, that's not the point, the point is that they don't, yet attempted to block a stadium in the RoI, built with assistance from RoI taxpayers (without their having a choice in it) from being used by other sports. If they are so keen on being a part of the RoI, perhaps they should have taken the hint from the overwhelming number of RoI county boards who voted in favour of opening HQ for 'foreign sports' (even though compromise rules and american football and Neil Diamond have all played in Croker numerous times )

The argument that the GAA had an obligation to open Croke Park because of the assistance provided by the Irish taxpayer is ridiculous, but sadly typical of many in this state.
Firstly, as citizens of the Irish republic, surely the gaa members who are irish taxpayers are entitled to avail of the benefits extended to all taxpayers within that economy.
Secondly, for every euro in grant aid given to Croke Park, it is estimated that over 60c came straight back to the government in the form of payroll taxes and VAT.
Thirdly, the provision of infrastructure such as Croke Park in the Irish Republic is of immense benefit to the Irish taxpayer generally, by providing grant aid to the GAA, the government effectively guaranteed that nordies would be flocking to Dublin for years to come for concerts and matches, spending God knows how much of that hard earned sterling on products as diverse as pints and vodka, think of the exchequer duty raised, what about hotels in Dublin, restaurants, taxi drivers (God forbid, even hookers), how many millions of the British taxpayers money is transferred to fair Dublin as a result of the decision by the government to give the GAA fair play when it came to distributing tax payers money?
Fourthly, what about the apparent billions contributed annually by the GAA to the social economy......
In summation the GAA had no obligation to open Croke Park to other sports, that they did should be applauded and the backbiting should stop.

irish_38

It's unbelieveable that people from the south of ireland continue to critizise the situation in the north. It seems to me that they have forgot that it was them that created this mess when they sold out the beliefs of Padraig Pearse and the rest of the men that died at Easter 1916.

Mick86

irish_38 wrote:

It's unbelieveable that people from the south of ireland continue to critizise the situation in the north. It seems to me that they have forgot that it was them that created this mess when they sold out the beliefs of Padraig Pearse and the rest of the men that died at Easter 1916.

I'm pretty sure that all the people involved at the time are dead by now.

aidan24326

irish_38 wrote:

It's unbelieveable that people from the south of ireland continue to critizise the situation in the north. It seems to me that they have forgot that it was them that created this mess when they sold out the beliefs of Padraig Pearse and the rest of the men that died at Easter 1916.

It's true that the North was 'sold out'. That still doesn't excuse the disgraceful behaviour of so many bigoted narrowminded idiots and thugs that still goes on every day.

I think the North is very tribalist. Go under the thin respecting surface and its boiling. Its split along sectarian lines. Its politics are split along sectarian lines. Its about Religion, being British or Irish. -darkman2

As for it being 'about religion' I think everyone knows at this stage that it isn't and never really has been, at least not directly. Religion provides a label and determines which side of the fence you stand on from the moment you're born. As you've said your religion dictates your politics in NI through indoctrination from an early age. But it is different to the situation in the middle east in that actual religious issues are not at the core of the problem.

The situation in the North is improving, tensions are easing a bit. Still a few blackspots but it's getting better. I have visited Larne on a regular basis since childhood due to close family ties, Larne being a loyalist stronghold. On most recent visits in the last 3 years or so I have noticed a marked change in atmosphere compared to how it used to be. Significantly more relaxed and alot less of the tension that was obvious in years gone by, and very little of the hostility I'd experienced in the past. Though it's a good example of what 'the troubles' have done to NI economically. A dead nothing-town.

As for Blair and the British government, I would bet my bottom dollar that Britain would drop NI like a hot potato if they could. It is a weight around their neck at this stage and the current British administration must surely curse their predecessors for ever setting foot in the place. It's not as if the place even has any resources like oil to make it worthwhile, it has bloody nothing. I would like to see Ahern and Blair take a much tougher stance with the blatant bigots in DUP and Sinn Fein who consistently undermine peace efforts with their narrowmindedness.

Have to admit every time I hear Ian Paisley speak I tend to agree with the OP's suggestion of just nuking the place.

irish_38

Mick86 wrote:

I'm pretty sure that all the people involved at the time are dead by now.

The people who signed the treaty might be dead but the leaders that have followed have continued to neglect and critizise the Irish up north. If we had got a little help from down south maybe there wouldn't have been so much bloodshed. We also, like the men of 1916, have the right to fight for our independance.

mike65

aidan24326 wrote:

As for Blair and the British government, I would bet my bottom dollar that Britain would drop NI like a hot potato if they could. It is a weight around their neck at this stage and the current British administration must surely curse their predecessors for ever setting foot in the place. It's not as if the place even has any resources like oil to make it worthwhile, it has bloody nothing.

That nealty sums up why there is not a great rush to see 'unification' in our lifetime. Imagine if it had huge reserves of oil and gas, the dynamic between the UK and Ireland would be complelety different.

Mike.

Mick86

irish_38 wrote:

The people who signed the treaty might be dead but the leaders that have followed have continued to neglect and critizise the Irish up north. If we had got a little help from down south maybe there wouldn't have been so much bloodshed. We also, like the men of 1916, have the right to fight for our independance.

And what about Haughey and Blaney arming the Provos in the 1970s. That really did everyone a favour didn't it.

Do you imagine that your life would be better if you paid your taxes to Dublin rather than London? Don't fool yourself. A united Ireland isn't worth a single drop of blood and never was.

murphaph

irish_38 wrote:

The people who signed the treaty might be dead but the leaders that have followed have continued to neglect and critizise the Irish up north. If we had got a little help from down south maybe there wouldn't have been so much bloodshed. We also, like the men of 1916, have the right to fight for our independance.

I understand that you've been brought up a certain way but why would you actually want to be ruled by our shower of incompetent, corrupt halfwits?

At the end of the day, NI is part of the UK and nobod is denied a vote or any of that mullarky. You have democracy for all, just democracy in a different state. I'd happily pay my taxes to Brussels or London or wherever if I got quality public services, proper representation and all that jazz. The actual place the parliament sits is irrelevant to me.

Personally I feel quite disenfranchised by our electoral system. I live In Dublin West, a 3 seater. That's the minimum number of seats possible for any constituency, despite my area being the fastest growing place (population wise) in Ireland and with waaaay more people than all 3 seater rural constituencies. Therefore, there are fewer TD's per head in my constituency than these rural constituencies. I and my neighbours are under-represented.

Anyway, it's not all roses down here as I'm sure you know.

irish_38

murphaph wrote:

I understand that you've been brought up a certain way but why would you actually want to be ruled by our shower of incompetent, corrupt halfwits?

I haven't been brought up anyway, anything that I believe has been through readings books and research on the Internet on what has gone in the past.

At the end of the day, NI is part of the UK and nobod is denied a vote or any of that mullarky. You have democracy for all, just democracy in a different state

.

Yeah but all those rights were gained through war, we shouldn't have had to fight for anything.

I'd happily pay my taxes to Brussels or London or wherever if I got quality public services, proper representation and all that jazz. The actual place the parliament sits is irrelevant to me.

Agree with you to a certain extent but every person has the right to be governed by their own people. Why should we give up that right?

Personally I feel quite disenfranchised by our electoral system. I live In Dublin West, a 3 seater. That's the minimum number of seats possible for any constituency, despite my area being the fastest growing place (population wise) in Ireland and with waaaay more people than all 3 seater rural constituencies. Therefore, there are fewer TD's per head in my constituency than these rural constituencies. I and my neighbours are under-represented.

Anyway, it's not all roses down here as I'm sure you know

.

Yeah but no country has, well none that I know of, a perfect government. Look at every government in the world and you'll realise that there's certain aspects that are not up to the highest standards. At least your government's not filled with sectarianism. It's really the only thing stopping us from getting back to Stormont. The IRA can't really do much more than give up their weapons.

murphaph

I haven't been brought up anyway, anything that I believe has been through readings books and research on the Internet on what has gone in the past.

What about personal experience? Surely living in the north, that is what you should base your opinions on primarily?.

Yeah but all those rights were gained through war, we shouldn't have had to fight for anything.

You see, here we disagree. The IRA campaign of violence went on for about 20 years longer than the civil inequalities existed. The introduction of direct rule almost overnight eliminated the biased parliament at Stormont. All the civil rights you enjoy today, have been enjoyed by all in NI for nigh on 2 decades now. About 3000 people died needlessly. They did not die for your civil rights. At what point do you believe the 'war' was won and your current civil rights granted? Do you believe, for example, that the very last bomb planted by the IRA won you your civil rights, or were they won before that? When were they one, in your opinion?

Agree with you to a certain extent but every person has the right to be governed by their own people. Why should we give up that right?

You shouldn't I suppose. If you want to be ruled by Dublin then by all means, vote for nationalist parties etc. but as time goes on, you had better start getting along better with your protestant/unionist neighbours because as you will have noticed from this thread (and millons of others here), the south and it's people are not keen on introducing the current sectarianism which is confined to the north, into the rest of the island. It may be selfish in your eyes, but we've heard very little 'good news' out of your part if the island for many decades, so we can be forgiven for not wanting the hassle. If NI was a model society then people would be happy to have it integrated into the south, but it's far from that today and you all need to work out your differences internally before anyhing happens.

Yeah but no country has, well none that I know of, a perfect government. Look at every government in the world and you'll realise that there's certain aspects that are not up to the highest standards. At least your government's not filled with sectarianism. It's really the only thing stopping us from getting back to Stormont. The IRA can't really do much more than give up their weapons.

To be honest with you, as someone who never supported violence, I believe they could have done a lot more, however I do not want SF in government in the south and so I cannot argue with unionists who don't want them in government in the north. I'd have a big prolem if the DUP said they wouldn't do business with the SDLP or other non-violent nationalist party. Perhaps it'd be better to vote for a nationalist party without the links to violence that SF have.

irish_38

murphaph wrote:

What about personal experience? Surely living in the north, that is what you should base your opinions on primarily?.

Because I've experienced certain things doesn't mean to say everyone else has, not everyone goes through the same things in lfe.

You see, here we disagree. The IRA campaign of violence went on for about 20 years longer than the civil inequalities existed. The introduction of direct rule almost overnight eliminated the biased parliament at Stormont. All the civil rights you enjoy today, have been enjoyed by all in NI for nigh on 2 decades now. About 3000 people died needlessly. They did not die for your civil rights. At what point do you believe the 'war' was won and your current civil rights granted? Do you believe, for example, that the very last bomb planted by the IRA won you your civil rights, or were they won before that? When were they one, in your opinion?

Yeah but why should we accept a foreign government who was, and did for many years, willing to treat us like second class citizens. When did I ever say that the war was won? Look back through my posts, I said that we won civil rights, the war was about the unity of Ireland. The civil rights movement only helped kickstart the movement. You mentioned 3000 people who died needlessly. Although a significant part of those were innocent civilians(killed by both sides), a large number of those where british security forces which I believe to be legitimate targets. I'm against the killing of innocent people although a few of the major incidents that involved the IRA where accidents.

You shouldn't I suppose. If you want to be ruled by Dublin then by all means, vote for nationalist parties etc. but as time goes on, you had better start getting along better with your protestant/unionist neighbours because as you will have noticed from this thread (and millons of others here), the south and it's people are not keen on introducing the current sectarianism which is confined to the north, into the rest of the island. It may be selfish in your eyes, but we've heard very little 'good news' out of your part if the island for many decades, so we can be forgiven for not wanting the hassle. If NI was a model society then people would be happy to have it integrated into the south, but it's far from that today and you all need to work out your differences internally before anyhing happens.

Where did I ever say that I don't get along with my protestant/unionist neighbours, although in recent months they have been making it increasingly hard to. I take it from your past posts that you believe everything you read in the papers, I say that because of sectarianism mentionened, talk to most republicans up north and they will more than likely tell you that they have no problem living with protestants. That sectarianism comes from people who live in loyalist area's who believe everything the DUP tells them. I live in a predominantly nationalist area and there has been little to no problems over the past few years. Not saying that's the case everywhere but compare a nationalist area's to loyalist area's and you will quickly find out where the problems lye.

To be honest with you, as someone who never supported violence, I believe they could have done a lot more, however I do not want SF in government in the south and so I cannot argue with unionists who don't want them in government in the north. I'd have a big prolem if the DUP said they wouldn't do business with the SDLP or other non-violent nationalist party. Perhaps it'd be better to vote for a nationalist party without the links to violence that SF have.

Yeah but the north won't go anywhere if people like you can't change their attitude towards Sinn Fein. They have put in a lot of work over the past few years to work towards a peaceful route towards the unity of Ireland. Why ask them to take up a more peaceful way then critizise them for doing it? Those links to violence have been proven to no longer exist so what's your point?

solskjaer20

Sectarianism was a tool created by the British establishment in Ireland to do their dirty work for them.

It's true there is a lot of sectarianism in the north, but you'll find (whether you like to beieve it or not), that it is limited (mostly in fairness) to loyalists.

Our war has NEVER been against the Protestant people of Ireland, but against the British presence in Ireland.

Unfortunately the loyalist so-called war was against Catholics, becasue realistically who else are they going to fight against?

True there have been sectarian killings and attacks in the past by nationalists, but 99.9% of Catholics and nationalists have absolutely no problem living in harmony with Protestants and unionists.

Like when you hear olf sectarianism in the north, you invariably hear of Ballymena, Larne, East Belfast. You don't hear Derry City, South or NW Co Derry, (most of) Co Tyrone, Fermanagh or South Armagh.

I live in staunctly republican area, but any Protestants here have absolutely no bother from or with Catholics. However the feeling is not mutual in loyalist area, where your religion WILL get you burnt out of your house.

murphaph

I don't want to be rude and just ignore what you wrote so I'll acknowledge it but I won't reply to it as to be honest guys, we've done this all before on here, many times. Anyway, best of luck with the future under whatever government that may be.

darkman2

The vast majority of ppl in the south want a UI. However I would say we would want it in a way thats not going to cripple our economy or political environment in the process. Most of us also want a UI that dosnt dilute our sovereignty within the EU with that of giving up any of it to the UK to satisfy 700,000 unionists. Thats not going to happen. The fly in the ointment of what would otherwise be straight forward is Sinn Fein. In the South most of us find it difficult to understand how anyone could give a vote to them. The SDLP on the other hand I think all of us would gladly see in government north and south (perhaps under the FF banner) instead of SF.:rolleyes: