Supporting a party with links to a terrorist organisation

Jackie laughlin

MightyMouse,
People with whom you disagree are not necessarily "ranting".

The problem isn't with the WORD "disband"; the problem is with the actual maintenance of a violent organisation which seeks to subvert the democratic state's exclusive right to use force.

The IRA may be delusional but they nevertheless think that they are the Irish army. They also see themselves as a police force and as a civil service and judiciary. Now, if this were just a few spacers living out a fantasy, then no problem. However, whole housing estates are RULED by these despots and Irish people until very recently were prepared to vote for this fascism in increasing numbers. Mercifully, recent opinion polls suggest that electoral support has peaked and a decline may have begun but don't expect these people to behave democratically. They will look into their hearts to find the true will of the Irish people!

Wicknight,
Are you seriously suggesting that a journalist faced by a paedophile would fail to TRY to talk about THE big issue?

Zombrex

Jackie laughlin wrote:

Wicknight,
Are you seriously suggesting that a journalist faced by a paedophile would fail to TRY to talk about THE big issue?

What is the BIG issue?

Mighty_Mouse

the problem is with the actual maintenance of a violent organisation which seeks to subvert the democratic state's exclusive right to use force.

The problem is how to eliminate the IRA from the political spectrum of NI society. Which is what has been done IMO.

The problem is to stop the bomb being a legitimate path of political expression. Again which has been done.

All we have left now is the hangover of 30 years of terrorist activities in the north. Republicans ruling their own area's (mostly controlling joyriders, thiefs, rapists adn junkies) was necessary during the Troubles due to the lack of a trustworthy police force.

Once the policing issue is sorted then so will the above.

Then as far as I can see the only remaining problem is criminality.
Do you honestly think the IRA producing a statement would stop criminality?

Neither the media or unionism is gonna write an IRA statement for them. We've come a long way from "not a bullet...............etc".

The IRA is no longer an issue IMO

Irish people until very recently were prepared to vote for this fascism in increasing numbers

Did they? How?

Mercifully, recent opinion polls suggest that electoral support has peaked and a decline may have begun

Id bet my house SF will increase its number of seats in the next election.

They will look into their hearts to find the true will of the Irish people!

Very nice. Did you write that yourself?:rolleyes:

Jackie laughlin

MightyMouse,
The policing issue has been sorted in NI; their service is now better than ours. Nevertheless, the IRA police poor areas north and south of the border - indeed anywhere they can. That is fascism. The democratic Irish state has a monopoly on force within its jurisdiction.

I think you know well that Dev thought up that riposte to democracy but it features in the thinking of the SF/IRA tradition.

I've no doubt that SF will increase their representation in the Dail at the next election. My point was that their support level nationally seems to have peaked and is beginning to fall.

Wicknight,
Stop messing. THE issue, when interviewing a paedophile, is paedophilia. THE issue when interviewing a gunrunner is terrorism.

Mighty_Mouse

The policing issue has been sorted in NI

Not until republicans have faith in the police force its not.

Prob not gonna happen until SF endorse the police; so far from sorted I would think?

Nevertheless, the IRA police poor areas north and south of the border -

South of the border? Where?

Are we talking about community watch?

indeed anywhere they can

I would of though "north & south of the border" pretty much covers all areas within the Island or do you know of other locations under IRA control? Parts of Scotland maybe?

BTW think you want to re-read the definition of facisim.

I've no doubt that SF will increase their representation in the Dail at the next election.

My point was that their support level nationally seems to have peaked and is beginning to fall.

Im sorry can you explain your point to me again?

Zombrex

Jackie laughlin wrote:

Wicknight,
Stop messing. THE issue, when interviewing a paedophile, is paedophilia. THE issue when interviewing a gunrunner is terrorism.

Are you actually claiming that Sinn Fien members, when being interviewed by RTE News or BBC News, are never asked about terrorism?

Are you actually serious???

Jackie laughlin

Wicknight,
No, I'm not saying "never". I'm saying "seldom". Moreover, if they are asked, they almost never reply. Thus, the dominant issue in Irish politics for the last 30-40 years is not adequately addressed in the broadcast media.

MightyMouse,
SF/IRA cannot have faith in the police. To do so would put them out of business. They think they ARE the police within their own fiefdoms.

I said "north and south" to make clear SF/IRA's progress. Not only do they rule poor estates in NI but now they are imposing their rule wherever they can south of the border. You forget that the gunrunner in the Dail "convinced" criminals to return stolen goods in Kerry.

Having strength in particular constituencies can result in winning seats in the Dail. An increase in Dail seats is not inconsistent with a fall in national support. FF governments have formed following a fall in support for FF. Joe Higgins' Socialist Party doesn't even register in terms of national support but may win two seats in the next election. Proportionality is not 100% in our system of PR.

I don't see any necessity to study fascism further right now, though it is a fascinating topic. SF/IRA talk like fascists, behave like fascists, commemorate fascists, look like fascists in their silly uniforms. In other words, "if it walks like a duck ..." etc.

Talk again when I'm back from the hols.

joebhoy1916

Jackie laughlin wrote:

MightyMouse,
The policing issue has been sorted in NI; their service is now better than ours. Nevertheless, the IRA police poor areas north and south of the border - indeed anywhere they can. .

Oh yeah and what do they patrol the areas with!! STICKS!

This isnt the late 1970's man just cop on to yourself!

Jackie laughlin wrote:

SF/IRA cannot have faith in the police. To do so would put them out of business. They think they ARE the police within their own fiefdoms

Explain how that would put them out of business?

10 years ago was there many catholics in the RUC? And why do you think that is oh let me guess cause the IRA will come after them I sappose that's what your gonna say.

Jackie laughlin wrote:

I don't see any necessity to study fascism further right now, though it is a fascinating topic. SF/IRA talk like fascists, behave like fascists, commemorate fascists, look like fascists in their silly uniforms. In other words, "if it walks like a duck ..." etc.

Talk again when I'm back from the hols.

Well maybe you should of said something to them when you seen them marching? Why didnt you instead of mouthing behind a computer!

spanner

I disagree wrote:

There is no party called Sinn Féin/IRA. Would you care to share the evidence and the ‘dogs on the street know it’ sort of evidence does not cut it? The fact is that support for Sinn Féin will grow as it has done and eventually they will get into power and end up becoming another FF. I would rather see constitutional nationalists move to forefront and keep the guns in the past. FF, FG and Labour are all parties who emerged from the shadow of the gunman. Anyway, what you want doesn’t matter. Ireland will be united. More and more former alleged volunteers will sit in the Dáil and perhaps gain power and rule over you and me whether you like it or not.

I agree with alot of what is said in this post. I am a maybe voter for Sinn Fein. I like Gerry Adams and I feel he is a good Politician and I like Sinn Fein because they do a lot of grass roots work and they seem to care about the average community unlike the rest of the parties. However their links to criminality still does worry me and for now I will wait and see what comes out. There are alot of accusations againist Sinn Fein but no hard prove that Sinn Fein the party are involved in and benefitting from crime. Just because people who are in the party are convicted of crime doesnt mean that the party organization is also involved, if that were the case FF would be in real trouble. There links to the IRA are not in question, but the IRA have decommisoned and as an organization are not at war anymore. There does seem to be rouge elements practicing criminalty under the banner of republicanism, and this will also infulence my decision

Every political party in ireland has come from voilent roots (even the PDs) So what Sinn Fein has done in the past doesnt really matter to me its what they will do in the future. If people are to accuse Sinn Fein of criminalty they need to back it up, and if they do I am completely open to the information I have not yet heard as for now I have simply heard a lot of hearsay

Zombrex

Jackie laughlin wrote:

Wicknight,
No, I'm not saying "never". I'm saying "seldom".

Then you need to watch a hell of a lot more news.

Sinn Fein are ALWAYS being asked about terrorism, to the point where it really really pisses them off. Anytime anything happens with the IRA SF are asked about it, the stock reply being "we are not the IRA"

Sinn Fein have challanged RTE News on this a number of times, stating that RTE is distorting the picture in the North and unfairly liking Sinn Fein to terrorism and violence.

How you can say that Sinn Fein are "seldom" asked about terrorism is completely beyond me. I can only assume you don't actually watch much news.

Jackie laughlin wrote:

Moreover, if they are asked, they almost never reply.

A news reporter can't force a reply from anyone.

Jackie laughlin wrote:

Thus, the dominant issue in Irish politics for the last 30-40 years is not adequately addressed in the broadcast media.

I have absolutely no idea how you can say that, considering the troubles in the North have been the domonent topic for Irish news for the last 30 years.

A search of "Northern Ireland" returns over 7000 hits on RTE News, that is higher than American and Israel together. And that would just be recent news.

oscarBravo

joebhoy1916 wrote:

...just cop on to yourself!

I'd respectfully suggest that you cop on to yourself. If you can't discuss the topic in a civilised fashion, feel free to stay out of it.

oscarBravo

spanner wrote:

Every political party in ireland has come from voilent roots (even the PDs)

I'd be curious to hear about the violent origins of the Green Party.

Jackie laughlin

JoeBhoy,
I have received their midnight phone calls. I have been recently threatened at a public meeting. I've also been threatened in my local when a private conversation was heard. I don't hide but I am afraid of them.

Wicknight,
I watch masses of news. I analyse news. I've published on news. When you say that SF won't talk about violence, you make my point. Coverage of NI is not the same as discussing the morality of political violence.

Spanner,
Read as much as possible and keep your eyes wide open. That activity on the ground isn't the same as FF clientelism; it's a prelude to an attempt at ruling your area.

Wish me a nice holiday!

Zombrex

Jackie laughlin wrote:

When you say that SF won't talk about violence, you make my point.

No, your point was that RTE News (and other news media) give Sinn Fein an easy time.

Obviously they don't, if SF have to refuse to discuss certain aspects. To refuse to discuss something means you were asked an uncomfortable question. The fact that SF constantly refuse to discuss the topic means they are constantly being asked about the topic.

Jackie laughlin wrote:

Coverage of NI is not the same as discussing the morality of political violence.

You are right. They should do the former and stay well clear of the later.

I don't expect my national news organisation to discuss morality on the 6.1 News. That would be completely nonsense, and if they did I would be the first to complain. For a start the news is not a discussion program. Who would they discuss morality with

If you want a news station to tell you how to think, to tell you right and wrong, watch FOX News. But remember the reason why FOX News is a laughing stock of news media is exactly because they do constantly put forward their own opinion and agenda as part of their coverage and reporting.

If you want a discussion of morality read the opinion pieces in the newspapers, or hell log on to an internet discussion.

If you want the news watch the news.

joebhoy1916

Jackie laughlin wrote:

JoeBhoy,
I have received their midnight phone calls. I have been recently threatened at a public meeting. I've also been threatened in my local when a private conversation was heard. I don't hide but I am afraid of them.

Wish me a nice holiday!

And in all fairness who the fcuk could blame them, come to my area you would get more than a threat!!

You said two days ago you were going on holiday!

Jackie laughlin wrote:

MightyMouse,
The policing issue has been sorted in NI; their service is now better than ours. Nevertheless, the IRA police poor areas north and south of the border - indeed anywhere they can.

Show me the proof that the IRA police area's? SHOW ME

If the police issue was sorted in the north Sinn Fein would be on police board!

And I asked you explain how joining the police board would ruin Sinn Fein?

Doesnt that show you the people who support them doesnt agree with joining the police board YET. If people wanted them to join it they wouldn't vote for them.

Oscar no I wont! The man is going on like it's the 1980's saying the IRA police area's which is rubbish SHOW ME THE PROOF.

The IRA did that years ago why?
To stop the RUC/British army/Loyalists burning people out of there homes!

I'll tell you something if the IRA was in my area I would be delighted!

No more people's homes getting robbed! (Mine was broke into 3 times).

No more joyriding!

No drug dealing!

murphaph

joebhoy1916 wrote:

I'll tell you something if the IRA was in my area I would be delighted!

..

No drug dealing!

Very funny joe. The 'RA mobsters couldn't give a toss about 'policing'. They care about asserting their 'authority'. They are still up to their necks in criminality btw and SFIRA still pose a threat to our democracy.

oscarBravo

joebhoy1916 wrote:

Oscar no I wont!

Fine, don't. Banned for a month.

dam099

joebhoy1916 wrote:

And in all fairness who the fcuk could blame them, come to my area you would get more than a threat!!

For what posting some comments on a board disparaging SF? If they are serious about democracy they should welcome debate not seek to suppress it, that comment says a lot about why you are willing to support them. In a democratic society if someone makes a comment you don't like you suck it up unless its untrue then you can sue for slander or libel.

spanner

oscarBravo wrote:

I'd be curious to hear about the violent origins of the Green Party.

you got me there!

the real parties only messing

spanner

Jackie laughlin wrote:

Spanner,
Read as much as possible and keep your eyes wide open. That activity on the ground isn't the same as FF clientelism; it's a prelude to an attempt at ruling your area.

Wish me a nice holiday!

I feel I do, there still seems to be alot of accusations againist Sinn Fein and Hersay but little prove that as a organization it is involved in criminality. If someone could show me Sinn Feins an audit of Sinn Fein's party funds and prove to me that it is been funded by terrorism then I will never vote for them and condem them, however no one seems to have done this.

Just yesterday Michael Mc Dowell is starting to say that the republican movement has moved away from violence

whassupp2

I'll never vote for them anyway.

murphaph

spanner wrote:

I feel I do, there still seems to be alot of accusations againist Sinn Fein and Hersay but little prove that as a organization it is involved in criminality. If someone could show me Sinn Feins an audit of Sinn Fein's party funds and prove to me that it is been funded by terrorism then I will never vote for them and condem them, however no one seems to have done this.

Just yesterday Michael Mc Dowell is starting to say that the republican movement has moved away from violence

Ask yourself the following questions;
Who would make corporate donations to SF?
Assuming the answer to the above is "nobody", then ask yourself the following;
How can the run such slick election campaigns, particularly in Northern Ireland where they can somehow afford something like 5 times the number of election posters as the SDLP?
The Labour party down here is supported by the union subscriptions, the FG/FF crowd both get their corporate donations, but SF don't. They claim to represent poor oppressed people, surely these people can't afford to donate t SF, so where does the money come from?

My opinion is that it comes from the IRA warchest which has amassed millions in illicit funds over a couple of decades of crime. The IRA didn't squander all the money it robbed from the AIB, or obtained by 'protecting' NI businesses, or selling bootleg DVDs at markets etc. etc. etc. This money was ALL shrewdly invested in property and so on and SF now have enough money to run slick election campaigns for many years to come.

Vote for such a party at your peril. FF/FG/PD/Lab etc. are all guilty of their fair share of corruption at some level IMO, but SF are another level altogether and would gladly ride roughshod over our still young democracy if they thought they could get away with it.

Sgt. Sensible

murphaph wrote:

Ask yourself the following questions;
Who would make corporate donations to SF?

Americans. $5000 a head dinners and the like.

I thought that was common knowledge.

Mighty_Mouse

constitutionus wrote:

niall blaney the independant td for donegal son of neil blaney whom was involved in the arms trial , has joined fianna fail. so once again when the people vote for an independant we get a mainstream party member instead. wonderfull little democracy we have isnt it? no wonder people are so disillusioned with politics, i swear if irish politicians had to pass EU packaging laws half em wouldnt make it into the dail

The irony of the whole SF-bashing argument, (esp from Fianna Fail'ers')





Im havent figured out the whole linking threads concept yet!

LeinsterPar

SF aklso manage to do a lot on a small budget as local party members do a lot of leg work, running around and organising for free. basically they work their bollocks off for nothing

banaman

LeinsterPar wrote:

SF aklso manage to do a lot on a small budget as local party members do a lot of leg work, running around and organising for free. basically they work their bollocks off for nothing

Their adverts,billposters etc all cost money not to to mention the various trips and party conferences. So where does the money come from?

LeinsterPar

fundraising raffles, gigs, part of the salaries of elected SF memebrs plus american finance as mentioned earlier. theres plenty of ways for SF to make money legally - most of them pretty obvious imo

dam099

LeinsterPar wrote:

plus american finance as mentioned earlier. theres plenty of ways for SF to make money legally - most of them pretty obvious imo

Using foreign finance is illegal in the South so unless they are illegally diverting funds the Northern Ireland party organisation is raising that should not be a source in the South.

LeinsterPar

heres an idea ... ask your local government official.. SF opened its books to both governments a few years back. they'll have the info.

If you believe they get money from elsewhere, how about some of those famous links to some concrete proof (and not hearsay)?