Canon Pricing Policy - Open Letter to Canon Ireland: Progress

leinsterman

peter1892 wrote:

Standardising prices across the Euro zone would be nice. Base it on Germany's prices & we'll be away!

Better still, base it on Japanese prices... (a mate paid €500 for a 350d & 18-55 USM lens in Tokyo).

Well .... between you me and about 1000 others ... I did get info from another source that leads me to think you my be getting very warm with your first guess there ... when, is the question ... I suspect we may have to wait a bit ... the question is how long ??? ...

:mad: :rolleyes:

leinsterman

FinoBlad wrote:

So basically what you are saying is that Canon have decided to sell their cameras in Ireland at a higher price than in other countries in the EU?

Is that what he is saying?

In a nutshell ... it has been thus for many years now ... but this is about to change. Hopefully in our favour ... given the cost of Nikon gear at Gunns is very slightly less than Germany without shipping ...
I think you can draw your own conclusions what is going to happen. Nikon has caught up on digital, so Canon can't afford to trade on reputation alone any more.

leinsterman

Fionn wrote:

well it's a start
It would be interesting to hear from some of the Irish dealers on this because as I’ve previously stated they are the biggest stakeholders in this!
and it does seem to be just Canon's products that are marked up here in Ireland, which I think both ourselves and the dealers should strongly resent, to illustrate this - I was researching two lenses recently, see the details below

Call Cathy Gunn at Gunns - (01)4781226 ... she knows me, and is following this thread.

She would probably express frustration at years of trying to get Canon to change. It is not fair that Canon use their shop as a show room and then we go overseas to spend our cash thanks to Canon's policies ... but she understands why we are forced to do this.

Philip Brady is new in his job at Canon ... Cathy says he is a bit more of a go getter ... I tend to agree having spoken to him myself. Lets give him a chance to prove himself.

I also spoke to Michael Conn at Conns ... after he finished a moan for what seemed like a lifetime about having 400k worth of kit on loan to support people with problems blah blah blah blah blah blah ... he also expressed his sentiments that this situation cannot continue.

FinoBlad

Other European Union Retailer

leinsterman wrote:

In a nutshell ... it has been thus for many years now ... but this is about to change. Hopefully in our favour ... given the cost of Nikon gear at Gunns is very slightly less than Germany without shipping ...
I think you can draw your own conclusions what is going to happen. Nikon has caught up on digital, so Canon can't afford to trade on reputation alone any more.

Thanks for the updates leinsterman.

Anyone buying canon in Ireland are nuts basically. Nikon are far better value. Canon could sort this out overnight. If they dont soon, I'm going to go Nikon. A bit of brand dis-loyalty would give them something to think about.

evilhomer

Other European Union Retailer

I have being looking to buy a Canon 30D and a couple of lenses for quite a while now.

Having looked at the Irish prices and talked to some of the retailers in Ireland, I will be forced to buy from Germany or further afield if the 25%+ differences do not improve.

The 30D will be my first DSLR and I would much prefer to buy from Gunns or another Irish retailer, for piece of mind and for an actual shop to bring my products back to if anything ever did go wrong (instead of a PO Box in another country).

Mr. Brady if you are reading this, you are loosing out on huge volumes of business because of this. I would buy in Ireland with out hesitation if prices were brought inline with German prices (with the VAT difference taken into account obviously).

Valentia

I agree with all of the sentiments expressed here. Buying stuff from the US or Hong Kong is a massive move considering the amount of cash people are parting with. Anyone in their right mind would prefer to buy locally. It would be a massive boost for Irish retailers and customers if Canon moved significantly on this one.

311

UK Retailer

I bought a canon L lens here in conns ,I wasn't familiar with other camera users at the time and wasn't a memeber here on boards.ie.

I always think of the price I paid and the sum of money that is added here ,it's like a dirty black hole that the cash just floats away in.

FinoBlad

Other European Union Retailer

Why dont Canon Ireland have a website? Nearly everywhere in Europe has!

http://www.canon.com/gateway/region/europe.html

DrummerBoy

UK Retailer

http://www.canon.ie

FinoBlad

Other European Union Retailer

DrummerBoy wrote:

http://www.canon.ie

Cheers DrummerBoy, weird why they dont have the link up to canon.ie. We'll know soon if Canon are reading this thread. :rolleyes:

jlang

Other European Union Retailer

It would appear to not be problem unique to Ireland. I see someone had a similar idea across the water...
http://www.petitiononline.com/z5z5z5z5/petition.html

Roen

jlang wrote:

It would appear to not be problem unique to Ireland. I see someone had a similar idea across the water...
http://www.petitiononline.com/z5z5z5z5/petition.html

The prices he lists are from 2004, but some of the later comments mention the 30D, so it appears to have been running a few years now. Wonder if he ever got any feed back.

joe_elway

Other European Union Retailer

Well done for getting this started.

I bought my 350D in Munich last year (thanks to a then workmate who lived there) with the kit lens for 780 while it was selling here for 1100. I bought my battery grip from an EBay seller in HK. I'm now looking at a 17-40L to go along with my 100-400L. Prices in Ireland are around 990 for the 17-40 and I can get it from digitalwonderworld.de for around 690. What in the world would posses me to buy it here?

Next up will be either a 30D or the "machine gun" 1D mk IIn for a trip to Kenya next year *fingers crossed*. Considering it costs 25% less for either in the Germany you can bet your bottom dollar where I'll be shopping. Heck, I'm likely in the US later next year and mught wait till then and save even more dosh.

leinsterman

Here is the text of my latest email to Philip Brady at Canon -

leinsterman wrote:

Hi Philip,

This is just a quick follow up on our discussion last week. I attach some research I did through online forums on the subject of where people are buying their Canon gear. As you can see your customers are not shopping in this country. In fact 40% are not even shopping in the EU.

I really think Canon needs to address this as soon as possible for many of the reasons outlined in my letter. A few additional considerations -

Nikon DSLR's are now equal if not better than most Canon DSLR's, e.g. D200 is getter better reviews than the 30D
Sigma have caught up on lenses
The cost difference of buying Sigma and Nikon in Ireland vesus overseas is not as significant as that of Canon. In the EU it is not signifcant at all. In fact Gunn's are doing the Nikon D200 body for less than Germany.
It is hurting your business not only forcing money overseas but also sending customers to Nikon. Follow the link to the thread I started for evidence of this.

This is an open discussion with many of your Irish customers following. I am keeping a thread on the subject open to others in boards.ie. The link is -

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054960859

The is a similar thread ar photography ireland -

http://www.photographyireland.net/viewtopic.php?p=4517#4517

As discussed lets catch up in a few weeks when you have more to say on this subject.

spaczed

Just a quick note on Canon's pricing policy under European law. Canon subsidiaries or agents (eg Canon Ireland) are free to price their kit as they wish. The idea is that is the kit is available cheaper from wholesalers in other countries (eg Canon UK or NI) that resellers here could buy it from them and pass on the cost savings. But if Canon are forcing shops to buy from Canon Ireland by either expressly stopping their wholesalers from selling across borders, or through unjustifiable limitations like tying warranty support to country of sale for resellers, they are interfering with the freedom of goods, and breaching EC competiton law. I'm sure Canon know the rules, and doubt they would be blatantly breaching them, but if there is a worry, complaints can be made to the Competiton Authority (www.tca.ie) , to the European commission. TCA might give some advice too.

Dinarius

Not quite what the thread is about, but.......

I take pics for a living and I buy all my Canon gear from B&H PhotoVideo in New York.

1. Under EU law, there is no duty on still-image digital capture equipment - strictly speaking, if you buy a pocket digital camera that has a video capture feature, you should pay duty on it if you import it from the US - but not on purely still-image cameras such as the Canon 30D and 5D.

2. Canon Ireland do not honour the US warranty. I spoke to them about this once and I was told that the equipment specification can differ, thereby making parts for US purchased equipment difficult to source. This is, quitely simply, a lie. It is protectionism in the face of what is for them (the US) a grey market.

3. If you intend to buy lenses from the US, do so at the same time as the camera. You will be far less likely to incur duty on them. Ditto Compact Flash cards...etc...etc...

4. The slower the delivery option you go for, the less likely you are to incur VAT. e.g. The big courier companies are hand-in-glove with Revenue - they have to be - and will process your VAT liability on behalf of Revenue in the blink of an eye. Choose the regular mail option everytime.

5. Canon are rapidly becoming in digital photography what Microsoft are in the world of desktop computing. Almost the ONLY kid on the block. That accounts for what they charge as much as anything. Don't forget that extremely favourable tax laws and ferocious competition account for much of the knockdown US price.

D.

tab126

It is funny to me that the same thing happens in the US. European/Asian prodcuts (with EU or Asian warrenties only) are slightly cheaper than the US variants. The grass is always greener on the other side, I suppose.

I've started buying stuff 2nd hand from an online source I trust. I'm very satisfied for the price, so far. I can't stand even the "knockdown" US price.

cianclarke

German Retailer

It's a pity that Canon are ripping off the Irish consumer so much. All I'll say is that between myself and my father's business we have five Canon film/digital bodies, and about €1500 in Canon lenses (about 5X as much in sigma).

My father was recently considering buying the 100-400, and also a 300 2.8 from Canon - I'm sure if the prices were to harmonize with the rest of the EU the business would go to Canon Ireland rather than eBay.

Merrion

So - if you were buying in Ireland (for revenue related reasons) where would you get the best deal on a 5D or 1D?

leinsterman

Merrion wrote:

So - if you were buying in Ireland (for revenue related reasons) where would you get the best deal on a 5D or 1D?

Well I'm not quite sure what you mean by revenue related reasons but if you are referring to customs and excise then you have a few options -

Buy in B&H photo in New York and take a risk

Buy in Germany and take no risk ... I can recommend www.ac-foto.com

Support the rip off by Canon and buy in Ireland. If you insist on doing this then I'd recommend Gunns of Wexford St ... ask for Cathy and tell her leinsterman sent ya. Even she would probably admit you'd be mad to do this ...

Wait until the new year when Canon pricing will be the same here as in Germany and go to Gunns ... coz Conns is just that .. a con!

JMcL

Merrion wrote:

So - if you were buying in Ireland (for revenue related reasons) where would you get the best deal on a 5D or 1D?

If you're talking about using the camera professionally and claiming it as a legitimate business expense, then buying from Germany is exactly the same as buying in Ireland tax wise. If you're importing from the US, I would guess you can still claim providing you've paid your duty and VAT, and if you're VAT registered you should be able to claim that back, though I'm not sure of the finer details about bringing in non-EU stuff.

311

UK Retailer

leinsterman wrote:

Well I'm not quite sure what you mean by revenue related reasons but if you are referring to customs and excise then you have a few options -

Buy in B&H photo in New York and take a risk

Buy in Germany and take no risk ... I can recommend www.ac-foto.com

Support the rip off by Canon and buy in Ireland. If you insist on doing this then I'd recommend Gunns of Wexford St ... ask for Cathy and tell her leinsterman sent ya. Even she would probably admit you'd be mad to do this ...

Wait until the new year when Canon pricing will be the same here as in Germany and go to Gunns ... coz Conns is just that .. a con!

Leinsterman ,I've yet to buy over the internet when buying camera stuff .
I would buy from AC-FOTO though ,but I wasn't sure because I hadn't heard much in the way of people dealing with them.

PS. I was told by a couple of camera shops in the city centre, that I would save myself a lot of money buying over the internet. They actually encouraged me to put a hault to buying canon in Ireland.

leinsterman

_Brian_ wrote:

Leinsterman ,I've yet to buy over the internet when buying camera stuff .
I would buy from AC-FOTO though ,but I wasn't sure because I hadn't heard much in the way of people dealing with them.

PS. I was told by a couple of camera shops in the city centre, that I would save myself a lot of money buying over the internet. They actually encouraged me to put a hault to buying canon in Ireland.

Unless you are a pro and therefore not paying VAT (or you know a pro who can buy the lens and sell it to you... but this is VAT fraud), then Germany is usually the best EU option ... the poll above this thread should be evidence of this ...

I have bought three lenses and filters from AC-Foto ... no problems thus far except a delay due to a stock shortage. I suppose you have to experience a warranty / defect before you can really judge a seller... in my case this has not happened so please temper this recommendation with a note of caution ... I have no complaints about ac-foto ... they were very quick to respond to requests for update during the delay which was three weeks ...

For B&H foto ... these guys are highly recommended througout the industry ... I have had nothing but good experiences with them personally... but I never bought anything with a value of over $200 before ... the shop itself is a long standing tourist attraction in New York city, worth a visit ... Thanks to Canon IRL, I am currently considering spending a s**t load on a Canon L lens and teleconvertor with B&H. In the price bracket I am buying it is cheaper for me to fly to New York and pick it up myself ... However, the risk is getting caught by customs.

The best way to shop with BH is to ship to a non New York address and have someone pick it up for you (or do it yourself) ... in this was you also save an additional 8% on non payment of NY State taxes ... many of us have someone who travels to USA regualrly ... in my case I also have friends who visit NY regularly, and if ever I get a problem they will return the product for me.

There is the even cheaper again option of Hong Kong or Japan ... generally via ebay ... I have used an ebay seller for 2GB CF cards ... they were quick to rectify a problem with no fuss when they mistakenly shipped 1 CF card too few in an order of 2 ... name was urgalaxy. I am not into using the Hong Kong option since I do not have a safety net of an easy return path. But there a lots of other here who do it all the time ... I seem to recall Rymus is one ... but I not 100% sure.

311

UK Retailer

Thanks leinsterman ,I never thought of the 2 point shipping route .
I have a sister in canada ,maybe BH could send something to my sister and she could then post it to me as a pressie

Roen

leinsterman wrote:

name was urgalaxy.

I use these guys a lot, my next baby is on it's way as we speak
But again as you said, the only way to find out how good a seller is if things go wrong.....

leinsterman

Roen wrote:

I use these guys a lot, my next baby is on it's way as we speak
But again as you said, the only way to find out how good a seller is if things go wrong.....

Nice baby !!!

While we are exchanging baby pix ... here's my next one -

http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=19&sort=7&cat=27&page=2

I was interested to note that price of BH @ €1,100 plus €19 shipping to US address is less than UR Galaxy at around €1,340 ... but I'd say the Hong Kong warranty is international (Canon are w**kers about US warranty) ... also I see UR galaxy will pay duty if you ship to UK and get caught ... now who among us has not got an address there ?? ... :rolleyes:

still I'm sticking with BH for my new baby ...

Fajitas!

It wouldn't be fair not to join in...

http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=296&sort=7&cat=15&page=1

leinsterman

Fajitas! wrote:

It wouldn't be fair not to join in...

http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=296&sort=7&cat=15&page=1

I hate you ... that particular baby will be my reward to me if I get a good grade on my NCAD photography course .... next May ... a sort of self fulfilling incentive ... I figure I'll merit it ...


Anyway ... I thought you were a scrounging sutdent ? ... where did you get the money ... you selling drugs or what ?

Fajitas!

I got a good grade in my NCAD course

Roen

leinsterman wrote:

Nice baby !!!

While we are exchanging baby pix ... here's my next one -

http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=19&sort=7&cat=27&page=2

I was interested to note that price of BH @ €1,100 plus €19 shipping to US address is less than UR Galaxy at around €1,340 ... but I'd say the Hong Kong warranty is international (Canon are w**kers about US warranty) ... also I see UR galaxy will pay duty if you ship to UK and get caught ... now who among us has not got an address there ?? ... :rolleyes:

still I'm sticking with BH for my new baby ...

I paid €1140 including Fedex fast shipping You sure you got the right lens? Am I sure I got the right lens?:o
Yeah it's the same one alright I would have preferred the non IS version but I couldn't find it on their site.

And as for you Fajitas!!! I know what you look like and I know you like shooting at night :cool: Yoink!

On a serious note Leinsterman, will you not end up getting buggered by Mr.Taxman? I've always avoided the States as I automatically assumed that you'd end up getting stung big style and would end up negating the savings you'd make.

leinsterman

Roen wrote:

On a serious note Leinsterman, will you not end up getting buggered by Mr.Taxman? I've always avoided the States as I automatically assumed that you'd end up getting stung big style and would end up negating the savings you'd make.

Well in my case the plan is to have it shipped to a US address and have someone pick it up ... still may get stung but less chance ...

The only problem I have now is payment method if the current BH payment thread is anthing to go by !!! Check this out -

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054992537&goto=newpost

Roen

I just saw, no problems like that with the Hong Kong lads, I get the impression they'd take payment in coppers off ya.
About the price difference between URGalaxy and BH, were you referring to your new baby (top stuff!) or my new baby?
As far as I can see, once you factor in conversion rates and if you can avoid taking 'one for the team' from Mr.taxman the States is the place to buy. I only go with the Hong Kong option because of the reduced chance of taxation.

leinsterman

Roen wrote:

were you referring to your new baby (top stuff!) or my new baby?

... why mine of course

BH price is USD$1,400 plus about USD$25 shipping to my US address ... URGalaxy is UKSTG£840 plus £40 to Ireland ...

I make it €1,124 for BH and €1,307 for UR Galaxy ...

To be honest I'm kicking myself ... a friend of mine was over from Japan only last week and I never copped the opportunity !!!

Covey

Other European Union Retailer

Fair play Leinsterman.

I'm one of the seemingly many who buy all my Canon stuff in Germany. Of course I'd like to buy in Ireland and pay Irish VAT, thus supporting the Irish economy but I simply can't afford to.

The only item I bought in Ireland was a Sigma 10-20mm and that was cheaper than any price I could find in Germany or indeed the US. So, it can be done Canon!

T.

leinsterman

Hi

I tried to contact Philip Brady by email recently for an update ... he is not replying ... after such a good start too !!!

I'll try phoning him in a week or so ... in the interim if you want my opinion of whether you should do business in Ireland then you can see from this thread -

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054992537

... I'm voting with my wallet ...

If you ask me Canon are losing out in Europe becasue of this ... but you can't blame Canon global ... this is very much a European problem.

Alun

Covey wrote:

The only item I bought in Ireland was a Sigma 10-20mm and that was cheaper than any price I could find in Germany or indeed the US. So, it can be done Canon!

I've noticed that too. There's actually very little difference between the retail prices of Sigma lenses here in Ireland and the likes of technikdirekt/ac-foto when you add in postage. Personally, I've never felt comfortable with the whole 'marking it as a gift' thing to evade import duties when ordering from the US or Hong Kong, but that's just me, I guess.

Actually, just out of interest where did you get your 10-20 from here? I'm in the market for one very soon myself.

Bogus

Other European Union Retailer

Just bought a Canon9950F photo-scanner from Imagejoker.de. Saved almost €100 on Komplett's price.

My German price comparison search "bible" is, if anyone's interested:

http://www.preissuchmaschine.de/psm_frontend/main.asp

JMcL

Alun wrote:

Actually, just out of interest where did you get your 10-20 from here? I'm in the market for one very soon myself.

Camera Center (is that their name?) on Trinity St. quoted me €475 i think for it, which is good compared to German prices. Now all I have to do is find tha cash!

PaulieC

German Retailer

Berminghams on the quays have it for 465 euro. I went into Conn's (where it was 475) and told them I wanted to buy it there, but only if they'd beat Bermingham's price. Got it for 450 in the end...

Alun

cambo_gueno wrote:

Berminghams on the quays have it for 465 euro. I went into Conn's (where it was 475) and told them I wanted to buy it there, but only if they'd beat Bermingham's price. Got it for 450 in the end...

That's funny, I was passing by Conn's the other day, went in and asked them what their price was for the Sigma 10-20 and the guy said €499!

Morlar

Alun wrote:

That's funny, I was passing by Conn's the other day, went in and asked them what their price was for the Sigma 10-20 and the guy said €499!

They usually price match if you say it to them.

Alun

Morlar wrote:

They usually price match if you say it to them.

Thanks for that. Looks like I'll have to shop around.

Morlar

They wont price match from the internet though had a discussion with them once about L lenses and they said that they could match prices dublin wise but not from the internet due to their overheads. I spose it would depend on what your priorities are - rock bottom cheapest price no matter what - or if you think they add value in after sales service etc.

Covey

Other European Union Retailer

Alun wrote:

I've noticed that too. There's actually very little difference between the retail prices of Sigma lenses here in Ireland and the likes of technikdirekt/ac-foto when you add in postage. Personally, I've never felt comfortable with the whole 'marking it as a gift' thing to evade import duties when ordering from the US or Hong Kong, but that's just me, I guess.

Actually, just out of interest where did you get your 10-20 from here? I'm in the market for one very soon myself.

Alun, I actually bought mine last December in the Camera Centre, cost €420. I see from subsequent postings they've up it by more than 10% since :eek:

T.

Dinarius

Just ordered a Canon Angle Finder C and a grid focussing screen from B&H in New York.

I just couldn't be bothered shopping locally for camera gear. The bigger stuff, tripods, stands, lights etc. I buy here. But, the camera gear is too expensive.

The difference covers just about any kind of insurance cover or a few visits to the service centre - and that's only if something goes wrong within the guarantee period.

Thankfully, that has never happened to me....and I've dropped my 5D twice in the last two months! ;-)

D.

leinsterman

Hi,

Just to let you know I have been trying to get in touch with Philip Brady of Canon Ireland to see if he is willing to follow up on his earlier promise to provide addiotional information in "a few weeks" made over two months agos ... no luck so far but I'll try one last time.

After that I'll be posting for the last time in the thread.

There are new prices for Canon Ireland in the new year ... and they should be less ... but I have no other information and I suspect Canon will be unwilling to give them out until after new year ...

Thanks to everyone who supported this thread ...

Rymus ... if it is ok for you, please leave this sticky for about 4 more weeks and then you can unsticky it...

leinsterman

Text from my latest attempt to get some more information -

leinsterman wrote:

Hi Philip,

I have attached the final version of the online poll showing where people are buying their Canon gear.


When we spoke way back in August, you mentioned that there would be more news in a few weeks concerning Canon's pricing policies for photographic equipment in Ireland. It has now been a few months, is there any update ?

FinoBlad

Other European Union Retailer

leinsterman wrote:

Text from my latest attempt to get some more information -

Fair play for trying leinsterman, but after 3 months without action, I think its fair to say that Canon dont give a monkeys about this. Just a sad little cash back promotion for buying in the same country. Buy abroad or buy a brand that dont totally rip you off.

Covey

Other European Union Retailer

Agree entirely with above.

Brave effort Leinsterman, but it's plainly evident that Canon Ireland, don't give a damn about Irish customers, especially DSLR owners.

As a Canon owner, I will continue to use Irish shops to look at lenses etc. and buy overseas. It's quite simple these days. Seems from the poll that most others do the same.

I've gone a bit further than Leinsterman though and have sent a similar letter and link to this thread to Canon Japan. I wonder what value Canon Ireland brings to Canon, when most of it's potential customers ( repeat customers at least) purchase outside Ireland? Surely from Canon's perspective servicing this market from overseas is the next logical step!
If the Irish MD is still reading this, I sincerely hope that at the end of the day this has some negative impact at least on your bonus.

Rip off Ireland will end soon, and for many companies/branches it may very well be RIP.

T.

leinsterman

Interesting ... being a tad peeved at our friend at Canon Ireland for not returning my latest round of contact ... I too was considering writing to someone a bit further up the chain ...

The problem is we need a name ... anyone got a suggestion ?