Juve Relegated

therecklessone

GadgetFiend wrote:

does anyone have an updated version of the serie a table from last year then?

post verdict

Inter 76 (Champions League group stage)
Roma 69 (Champions League group stage)
Chievo 54 (Champions League preliminary)
Palermo 52 (Champions League preliminary)
Livorno 49 (UEFA Cup)
Empoli 45 (UEFA Cup) * Pending licence
Parma 45 (UEFA Cup)
Milan 44
Ascoli 43
Udinese 43
Sampdoria 41
Reggina 41
Cagliari 39
Siena 39
Messina 31
Lecce 29
Treviso 21
Lazio (Relegated)
Fiorentina (Relegated)
Juventus (Relegated)

SpAcEd OuT

Italian giants Juventus have this evening announced their intention to appeal the decision to demote them to Serie B with a 30-point deduction.

The Old Lady of Italian football were tonight stripped of their last two Scudetti and their Serie A status after the Calciopoli verdicts were finally announced.

Although the club were expecting to find themselves in the Second Division for the first time in their history, they have been shocked by the proposed points penalty.

New Juventus President Giovanni Cobolli Gigli was clearly furious after the news was delivered a little after 9pm local time.

“It’s unheard of,” said the Bianconeri chief. “We were expecting a balanced sentence but evidently we were mistaken.”

Gigli then confirmed that his club would appeal against the sentence before launching a broadside at Fabio Capello, the Coach who left Juve for Real Madrid at the start of this month.

“If Capello wants our players then he will have to pay the market value for them,” warned the official. “He left us in the most delicate of times and we aren’t going to give him any discounts.

“I’ve spoken with a few of our champions and I can concretely hope that a few of them have the desire to stay. After all, we’ll still pay their wages.”

Real are interested in numerous Juventini such as Gianluca Zambrotta, Fabio Cannavaro and Emerson.

Lazio and Fiorentina have also been condemned to the Second Division tonight, decisions which have been met with a similar amount of anger.

Capital chief Claudio Lotito has vowed to fight on in order to clear his club’s name, even if it means going to the European courts.

The Viola have called tonight’s events as “profoundly unjust” before adding: “We will fight with every means in every appropriate forum.”

Milan have survived the drop but have been barred from the Champions League and will start next term with a 15 point deduction.

The Rossoneri have released a statement in which they describe the verdict as an “extraordinary injustice” before adding that they will soon launch an appeal.


- CHANNEL 4

SpAcEd OuT

how can there be enough evidence to give Milan a 15 point deduction and to bar them from the champions league but not enough evidence to relegate them along with the others

Milan clearly off the hook

gosplan

This really has such far reaching implications for the rest of this summer.

Not only are the Juve, Fiorentina and Lazio teams up for sale but no-ne is really going to want ot go to italy.

Milan can't promise new signings champions leauge football for at least one year, perhaps two.

Other Italian clubs are going to find it hard to convince players that Italy is the place to be, especially over the premiership or La Liga.

Some of the world cup names that will more then likely be sold this summer may have gone ot Italy. e.g. Mascherano, Tevez or Kuyt.

Milan and Juve always make two or three big signings that won't be made freeing up even more players, last year it was Gilardino, Mutu and Viera.

Off topic a bit, does anyone else find it odd that Lazio got so heavily punished. Surely they weren't cheating that much considering that they're pretty crap. I mean how can LAzio cheat their way through a few years and nearly always lose to and finish behind Roma???:D

eirebhoy

To the above 2 posts - Only Juventus have been relegated.

therecklessone

eirebhoy wrote:

To the above 2 posts - Only Juventus have been relegated.

Lazio and Fiorentina are down as well.

therecklessone

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

how can there be enough evidence to give Milan a 15 point deduction and to bar them from the champions league but not enough evidence to relegate them along with the others

Milan clearly off the hook

From the ESPN piece PHB posted a while back, Milan were only indicted for a breach of Article One of the Sports Code, which is punishable by a points deduction.

The other three were indicted under Article Six and/or One, a breach of Article Six is punishable by relegation.

PHB

Well that's not it exactly,

Article Six carries with it automatic demotion.
Once they were found guilty, they were being demoted without a doubt. It was just a matter of how much.

To be blunt, for those 3 clubs not to be relegated, they needed to be found not guilty of breaching article 6.

Article One can be punished with demotion, but it wasn't in this case.

eirebhoy

therecklessone wrote:

Lazio and Fiorentina are down as well.

haha. Can't believe I thought it was just Milan.

Pigman II

just Juve you mean?

Rikand

Pigman II wrote:

just Juve you mean?

Just Milan . . . . .That stayed up

aidan24326

Not sure of the exact ins and outs of why Milan avoided relegation. Call me a cynic but could their direct links to the Italian Prime Minister possibly have helped at all? Whatever they're saying about Article this and Article that.

As for Juve I think some people here are underestimating how serious this is for them. The 30 point deduction will make it very difficult if not impossible for them to come back up next season. Now I know an even near full strength
Juve team probably would overcome the 30 point gap but at this stage we've no idea what sort of team they'll have next year.

The loss of revenue from poor attendances, loss of tv coverage, loss of champs lge etc. will hit them hard. Basically they won't be able to afford their top players and I can't see too many of their highly paid and pampered stars opting for a big pay cut. Not to mention playing in Serie B (and god forbid serie c) in front of paltry attendances and with no chance of Euro football. These days there is little or no loyalty in football so I will be amazed if they manage to hang on to more than a small few of their first team.

In fairness we should have seen something like this coming. There's been something rotten about the way football has been operating at the management and financial level. Vastly over-paid players, sleazy dodgy chairmen, even sleazier agents, no loyalty of any description, and now we have allegations of match fixing aswell.

There have been other cases of possible match fixing also, not just in Italy. Particularly in the UEFA CUP. There was a game a while back involving Panionios and Dinamo Tbilsi. UEFA were considering an investigation due to very strange betting patterns and the unusually large amount of money involved for a low-key UEFA CUP game. Betting firms reported large volumes of betting on Panionios to trail at halftime and win at fulltime. The old halftime/fulltime bet. Some bookie firms stopped taking bets on it due to the suspicious nature, and it was reported to UEFA. Sure enough Ponionios trailed 0-1 at ht and went on to win 5-2. This is one of the more blatant possibilities, but it certainly isn't isolated.

So a scandal like this was probably going to happen sooner or later. The Italians probably kicked off the greedy modern football philosophy of money is king. Well it's come full circle now to bite them in the ass. The repercussions could be serious for Juve unless they can somehow talk some of their top players into staying. Otherwise it could take them as much as 3 years to get back up, and even then with a severely weakened squad. So I wouldn't be predicting a double-quick return to Champs Lge for them. It's a very heavy penalty they've been hit with but it's good to see football's governing bodies finally dishing out something more than a mere slap on the wrist.

therecklessone

PHB wrote:

Well that's not it exactly,

Got my One and Six ar*e about face (again)!

Should have been worded as follows:

Milan charged under Article One, Lazio/Fiorentina/Juventus charged under Article One and/or Article Six.

PHB wrote:

Article One can be punished with demotion, but it wasn't in this case.

Sure? From the ESPN piece you quoted before:

Juventus, Fiorentina and Lazio are all being investigated on the count of violating Articles One and/or Six of the Sports Justice Code.

Milan are indirectly involved and are only being investigated under suspicion of violating Article One of the code.

Article One is a general rule which explains that `whoever is subject to the observation of the federation's rules must do so according to the principles of fairness, correctness and honesty'.

Article Six explains that `the execution, through any means, of acts aimed at altering the course or result of a match, or at ensuring an advantage to anybody in the league table is a punishable offence'.

If any of the clubs are found guilty of violating Article Six, they face the minimum penalty of automatic relegation to an inferior level.

An infringement of Article One is punishable by the docking of points in the subsequent season.

therecklessone

aidan24326 wrote:

Not sure of the exact ins and outs of why Milan avoided relegation. Call me a cynic but could their direct links to the Italian Prime Minister possibly have helped at all? Whatever they're saying about Article this and Article that.

Milan have links with Romano Prodi?

Berlusconi lost the last election.

SpAcEd OuT

In light of the sentence decreed by the Commissione d’Appello Federale, which has proposed the demotion of Juventus to Serie B with the deduction of 30 points, Chairman Giovanni Cobolli Gigli has made the following statement: "It is unheard-of. We expected a balanced sentence from a court comprised of jurists of such esteem, both in its form and its content. Evidently our expectations were misplaced. The sentences signal a desire to attack the companies with excessive severity. We do not understand the differential legal treatment applied to the four cases under consideration. As the facts have clearly demonstrated, the episodes relating to Juventus under the observation of the sporting tribunal are without question comparable to those with which the other teams are charged. The difference being that in our case only two matches have been called into question. Therefore in this moment our priority is to look after the interests of our fans and those of the minor share holders, and we will do this straight away, appealing to the Consiglio Federale"

PHB

An infringement of Article One is punishable by the docking of points in the subsequent season.

Yeh, that's the automatic punishment, but there is scope there for relegation if they wanted it.

Mr. Presentable

therecklessone wrote:

Inter 76 (Champions League group stage)
Roma 69 (Champions League group stage)
Chievo 54 (Champions League preliminary)
Palermo 52 (Champions League preliminary)
Livorno 49 (UEFA Cup)
Empoli 45 (UEFA Cup) * Pending licence
Parma 45 (UEFA Cup)
Milan 44

So, Empoli fail to get their licence, and Milan play in the Uefa Cup. They got off the hook, I'd say.

Seaneh

therecklessone wrote:

Milan have links with Romano Prodi?

Berlusconi lost the last election.

Beat me to it!

Bateman

I thought the length of Moggi's ban is extremely lenient. He will doubtless get plenty of offers when the ban runs out, and will probably be negotiating offers during the 5 years. :rolleyes:

Chucky the tree

I cant see many clubs willing to take him on after this though. Far to risky.

aidan24326

therecklessone wrote:

Milan have links with Romano Prodi?

Berlusconi lost the last election.

Oops!! A slip up there!

Still no harm to have such close ties to someone of Berlusconi's power though. Whether it had any influence here or not.

DerekD Goldfish

aidan24326 wrote:

Oops!! A slip up there!

Still no harm to have such close ties to someone of Berlusconi's power though. Whether it had any influence here or not.

well the section of the law milan wer being charged with had never previously resulted in demotion while the section lazio/fiorintina were being charged with did result in demotion Juve were charged with both. the results arnt much of a surprise

Mr. Presentable

So, as predicted, Empoli failed to get their licence, and Milan are in the Uefa Cup. Justice????

damienom

The verdicts.....

ROME, July 25, 2006 (AFP) - Juventus' relegation to Serie B was confirmed by the Italian Football Federation (FIGC) here Tuesday following an appeal by the club against their punishment for involvement in a match-fixing scandal.
But Juventus points handicap for the forthcoming season has been slashed from 30 to 17, the FICG tribunal announced.
bur/rcw06

ROME, July 25, 2006 (AFP) - Fiorentina and Lazio were reinstated in Serie A on Tuesday after successful appeals here in Italy's match-fixing trial.
Both clubs will start the forthcoming season with points deducted, 19 for Fiorentina and 11 for Lazio.
sb/rcw06

ROME, July 25 (Serie A) - AC Milan to play in Serie A with an eight-point
deduction following appeal against match-fixing verdict.
252012 JUL 06

CCC HHH

Vokes

I thought it was odd that Mutu signed for Fiorentina, a relegated club. It appears now that Fiorentina must have known that they could get it overturned and told Mutu as much.

The whole thing stinks.

Italian Football Federation has no balls.

therecklessone

SofaKing wrote:

The whole thing stinks.

Italian Football Federation has no balls.

Agreed. Reading Paddy Agnew's book atm, the game in Italy is rotten to the core. Then football is an extension of a country's culture, corruption is endemic in Italian business.

These are disgraceful decisions, will Lazio and Fiorentina retain their European qualifications?

sprinkles

therecklessone wrote:

Agreed. Reading Paddy Agnew's book atm, the game in Italy is rotten to the core. Then football is an extension of a country's culture, corruption is endemic in Italian business.

These are disgraceful decisions, will Lazio and Fiorentina retain their European qualifications?

Ridiculous.

I assume their points deductions from last year stand, ie: milan finished on 44 and therefore only get Eufa and the rest fall outside the european places.

Seaneh

Milan get a place in champions league Qualifiers.

Seaneh

SofaKing wrote:

I thought it was odd that Mutu signed for Fiorentina, a relegated club. It appears now that Fiorentina must have known that they could get it overturned and told Mutu as much.

The whole thing stinks.

Italian Football Federation has no balls.

Mutu signed for Fiorentia because they didn't expect to be relegated at all considering the evidence against them was nothing compared to Juves caes, most people expected only Juve to be relegated.

Seaneh

Here’s how next season’s Serie A will look after tonight’s appeal verdicts. Plus Italy’s Euro participants for the new term.

Ascoli
Atalanta
Cagliari
Catania
Chievo
Empoli
Fiorentina ( -19pts)
Inter
Lazio (-11pts)
Livorno
Messina
Milan (-8pts)
Palermo
Parma
Reggina
Roma
Sampdoria
Siena
Torino
Udinese

Champions League group stages: Inter, Roma
Champions League preliminary: Milan, Chievo
UEFA Cup: Palermo, Livorno, Parma.

sprinkles

Way to go italy!

therecklessone

sprinkles wrote:

Ridiculous.

What I said or the reduced sentences?

How the hell are Milan allowed compete in the CL, when Lazio and Fiorentina (who were not docked points from last seasons tally, and are back in Serie A) are out of Europe?