Networking Job

tom_ass19

Hey guys. Im probably going to make this sound more difficult than ill explain it. Story is im just after finishing 1st yr of networking in carlow and I want to set up a network between 4 houses when I go back to college. We all gamers in all the houses so we can have lans all the time and of course go to college...haha.

Theirs 6 people in each house, each with their own pc obviously and the few with laptops. Two of the houses are attached so all Im going to do is network up that house by putting a lan cable through the attic so those two are fine.

My house and the other house are in range for wireless network, I intend to have a wireless switch in my house connected to one of the two houses that are attached. The other house which i mentioned a few lines back also has a gaming wireless switch which is going to connect to my house.

Another thing, every house is going to have broadband, were all gettin bb from bt, its our only option around the area and we dont want to go for wireless because its not that great for gaming.

Were all getting the same 3MB down and 387up(somewhere near that), theirs only 2gamers in my house so its ok for me. I want to set up the nework in my house so that everyone is still on the lan but my broadband wont carry over the wireless switch to the other two houses. But I do want to have wireless in the house, mainly in the sitting room.

Ive kinda forgottn most things about networking but still know a fair bit. My mate told me that if i have the same default in my house and have the other three houses with different default gateways that my internet wont pass through the wireless switch to the other houses. I dont know if that would work but thats what I want to do. Would it make any difference if i set up DNS servers.

Basically what I want is to be connected to the other three houses over the lan but not transfer my bb to them. But still have wireless bb in my house, obviously id have to get a wireless router.

Another question, what hardware do I need. Im pretty sure I have all the essential hardware but just let me know just to re-asure myself.

See I told you I would make it sounds more difficult than it sounds.

Thanks for any comments.

Cheers,
Tom

KdjaCL

How far apart are the houses?

The easist way would be to get seriously powerful wireless router and connect that way, everyone can connect tru wireless to the game server so thats that problem sorted.

BUT for everyone to have their own internet a seperate wireless card would be ideal for laptops and a seperate ethernet card also.


So 1st off get everyone connected to the net( hosting an online gameserver may be possible depends on the game really).

Then get secondary cards/ PCIMIA for laptops to connect to the powerful router something like 5ghz (not cheap) and then thats your gaming Lan sorted.

Atm i have 2 ethernet cards one for my router one for my ps2 and wireless USB dongle for the DS. Each with their own ips all work flawlessly, have 2 laptops in the house both connect wirelessly one has built in wifi other has PCIMIA card and both can play games fine.


kdjac

tom_ass19

KdjaC wrote:

How far apart are the houses?

The easist way would be to get seriously powerful wireless router and connect that way, everyone can connect tru wireless to the game server so thats that problem sorted.

BUT for everyone to have their own internet a seperate wireless card would be ideal for laptops and a seperate ethernet card also.


So 1st off get everyone connected to the net( hosting an online gameserver may be possible depends on the game really).

Then get secondary cards/ PCIMIA for laptops to connect to the powerful router something like 5ghz (not cheap) and then thats your gaming Lan sorted.

Atm i have 2 ethernet cards one for my router one for my ps2 and wireless USB dongle for the DS. Each with their own ips all work flawlessly, have 2 laptops in the house both connect wirelessly one has built in wifi other has PCIMIA card and both can play games fine.


kdjac

I know that the houses are close enough because I messured them before I left college and asked my networking lecture, he said the distance is fine for the wireless switches.

Were all css gamers so im going to setup my spare pc as a server. Im not going to setup a online server just a dedicated lan server.

So if I set fixed IP's for all the computers on the network(about 25 all together) it should be ok, eg.

My House:
IP: 192.168.1.2 (have ranges from 192.168.1.2 - 192.168.1.7 )
SM: 255.255.255.0
DG: 192.168.1.1 (same DG for the 5pcs in my house)

The other three houses have the ranges from 192.168.1.8 - how ever many pcs their are. If I have these three houses with different DG will my internet still be shared over the network or will it be blocked and only used in my house. Because thats what I want if you get me.

Cheers,
Tom

Foxwood

tom_ass19 wrote:

My House:
IP: 192.168.1.2 (have ranges from 192.168.1.2 - 192.168.1.7 )
SM: 255.255.255.0
DG: 192.168.1.1 (same DG for the 5pcs in my house)

Use a different subnet for the network that won't be on the internet. So use 192.160.27.x for the gaming LAN, for example.

The wired machines don't need second adapters, they can be multihomed, with 2 different IP addresses on a single adapter, if you're careful about configuring the routers. I dunno about the wireless ones, though - it should be possible to multi home them too, if they are connected to a wireless router that is connected to both networks (the internet on it's WAN port, and the gameing LAN on it's LAN port). Get the wired stuff working satisfactorily before you try messing with the wireless stuff.

tom_ass19

Foxwood wrote:

Use a different subnet for the network that won't be on the internet. So use 192.160.27.x for the gaming LAN, for example.

The wired machines don't need second adapters, they can be multihomed, with 2 different IP addresses on a single adapter, if you're careful about configuring the routers. I dunno about the wireless ones, though - it should be possible to multi home them too, if they are connected to a wireless router that is connected to both networks (the internet on it's WAN port, and the gameing LAN on it's LAN port). Get the wired stuff working satisfactorily before you try messing with the wireless stuff.

Ok I can kind of understand what you are saying, I just had a look their at the advaned options inside in the TCP/IP settings and you can add a second IP address and Default Gateway, is that multihomed. Do I have to set a second IP address or will the second default gateway do the job.

So still have the 255.255.255.0 and as internet Default Gateway and the 192.160.27.x as the gaming default gateway and the internet wont share across over the 192.160.27.x default gateway. Is that right so? So do the same thing for the other pcs in my house and the internet wont be shared over the 192.160.27.x DG. So my internet will be blocked to the other three houses, is that right? But still be accesable to the computers in my own house? This is getting confusing but ill manage it I guess.

Another question about the other houses, do i have to multihome all their pcs aswell, because I dont care about them, they can share their net with the other houses if they want. I dont give a rats ass about them. In the sense about their internet like. So as long as I multihome the pcs in my house my internet will be blocked to the other three houses. Is that right?

Is their any point in setting up a DNS server, I dont know what a DNS server does I just thought id mention it. I remember something about configuring routers in college but ive totally forgotten, what would I need to configure in the router and how would I do it.

Thanks for the help guys, keep em coming, lol

Cheers,
Tom

bushy...

192.160.x.x isn't private ip space afaik
you have 10.0.0.0 --> 10.255.255.255
192.168.0.0 -->192.168.255.255
172.16.0.0 ---> 172.31.255.255
to play with

Foxwood

tom_ass19 wrote:

Ok I can kind of understand what you are saying, I just had a look their at the advaned options inside in the TCP/IP settings and you can add a second IP address and Default Gateway, is that multihomed. Do I have to set a second IP address or will the second default gateway do the job.

You'd need to specify an IP address as well as a gateway address.

So still have the 255.255.255.0 and as internet Default Gateway and the 192.160.27.x as the gaming default gateway and the internet wont share across over the 192.160.27.x default gateway. Is that right so? So do the same thing for the other pcs in my house and the internet wont be shared over the 192.160.27.x DG. So my internet will be blocked to the other three houses, is that right? But still be accesable to the computers in my own house? This is getting confusing but ill manage it I guess.

As bushy points out, that should be 192.168.27.x - a typo on my part.

If keeping the guys in the other house off your DSL connection is your primary concern, then using a second adapter in each PC in your house may be the best way to do it, though if there's a router between your house and the other house, you could probably get away with dual-homing, and rely on that routers NAT tables to keep everything except gaming traffic out (use a "pinhole" or portforwarding to let gaming traffic through).

Another question about the other houses, do i have to multihome all their pcs aswell, because I dont care about them, they can share their net with the other houses if they want. I dont give a rats ass about them. In the sense about their internet like. So as long as I multihome the pcs in my house my internet will be blocked to the other three houses. Is that right?

Maybe you should turn this problem around, and look at it from a different direction. Instead of thinking in terms of networking the 4 houses, all you really care about is hosting a gaming server, and allowing the other houses access to it, right? You could do this entirely over the internet, but keeping it off the 'net entirely has it's advantages, so you want to create a "private internet" between the houses. If you think of the other houses as being on a private internet, then you set up your game server as you would on the real internet - behind a NAT router with port forwarding (or pinholes, if you use netopia hardware). So you put a router between you and the next house. It's LAN can be configured to use 192.168.27.x (for example), and the game server will only have a 192.168.27.x address. The dual-homed PCs will have a static 192.168.27.x address (no DHCP), as well as a primary IP on the subnet served by the DSL router (you might need to stick with static addressses on both networks for the dual-homed machines). The WAN port of the "private internet" router will be plugged into your neighbours LAN (with a static address of 192.168.1.25, for example), and it will portforward the gaming ports. Your neighbours will see the server as being on their 192.168.1.25. Your housemates will see it as being on 192.168.27.25 (for example).

To connect a second house, you'll need a second router. It's LAN port will also have a static 192.168.27.x address, and it's LAN port will have a static address on the 2nd houses LAN. It doesn't matter whether they use 192.168.1.x or not, because they won't be directly connected to the other house, so there won't be a conflict.

Setting up a wireless connection between houses will be more complex - you'd need something like a wireless gaming bridge as well as a router. (The wireless router would have to be in their house, with its WAN port plugged into their LAN, and the Gaming bridge would be in your house and pick up a signal from the wireless router and plug into your LAN with a 192.168.27.x address.

Is their any point in setting up a DNS server, I dont know what a DNS server does I just thought id mention it. I remember something about configuring routers in college but ive totally forgotten, what would I need to configure in the router and how would I do it.

No, a DNS server won't be any help in doing this. Get the guys in the other houses to pay for the hardware (€50 to connected a wired house, €120 to connect wirelessly), abd they can game away to your hearts content.

tom_ass19

Foxwood wrote:

You'd need to specify an IP address as well as a gateway address.

As bushy points out, that should be 192.168.27.x - a typo on my part.

Ah right, thats ok so. Got that one.

Foxwood wrote:

If keeping the guys in the other house off your DSL connection is your primary concern, then using a second adapter in each PC in your house may be the best way to do it, though if there's a router between your house and the other house, you could probably get away with dual-homing, and rely on that routers NAT tables to keep everything except gaming traffic out (use a "pinhole" or portforwarding to let gaming traffic through).

Is dual-homing another another word for multi-homing ya?
Sorry im still a bit lost on the routers NAT tables, can you just explaing what this is and how I can access it. Also can you explain to me how to put a pinhole on the network or portforwarding. So just does the pinhole have anything to do with the second adapters or is that accesed through the router.

Foxwood wrote:

Maybe you should turn this problem around, and look at it from a different direction. Instead of thinking in terms of networking the 4 houses, all you really care about is hosting a gaming server, and allowing the other houses access to it, right? You could do this entirely over the internet, but keeping it off the 'net entirely has it's advantages, so you want to create a "private internet" between the houses. If you think of the other houses as being on a private internet, then you set up your game server as you would on the real internet - behind a NAT router with port forwarding (or pinholes, if you use netopia hardware). So you put a router between you and the next house. It's LAN can be configured to use 192.168.27.x (for example), and the game server will only have a 192.168.27.x address. The dual-homed PCs will have a static 192.168.27.x address (no DHCP), as well as a primary IP on the subnet served by the DSL router (you might need to stick with static addressses on both networks for the dual-homed machines). The WAN port of the "private internet" router will be plugged into your neighbours LAN (with a static address of 192.168.1.25, for example), and it will portforward the gaming ports. Your neighbours will see the server as being on their 192.168.1.25. Your housemates will see it as being on 192.168.27.25 (for example).

Ya I kind of understand that now, I was really drunk last night and couldnt make any sense of it, im still drunk tonight but not as bad, lol. So setting up the game server, just by creating a game server on my pc and put it through the NAT router, once again im still lost about NAT routers. Have no idea really. So i would set up the NAT routers IP address as 192.168.27.x and how would I do this, would this be the second adapters ip address's on the pc's in my house right?

Foxwood wrote:

To connect a second house, you'll need a second router. It's LAN port will also have a static 192.168.27.x address, and it's LAN port will have a static address on the 2nd houses LAN. It doesn't matter whether they use 192.168.1.x or not, because they won't be directly connected to the other house, so there won't be a conflict.

roger that

Foxwood wrote:

Setting up a wireless connection between houses will be more complex - you'd need something like a wireless gaming bridge as well as a router. (The wireless router would have to be in their house, with its WAN port plugged into their LAN, and the Gaming bridge would be in your house and pick up a signal from the wireless router and plug into your LAN with a 192.168.27.x address.

I was thinking of getting this router for that job, do you think it would do the job or would something cheaper do, like a Linksys wireless router.

http://www.expansys.ie/product.asp?code=119330

Foxwood wrote:

No, a DNS server won't be any help in doing this. Get the guys in the other houses to pay for the hardware (€50 to connected a wired house, €120 to connect wirelessly), abd they can game away to your hearts content.

Will it still work the orginal way without doing what you mentioned above their?

If you dont mind can you recommend all the hardware I need, routers...switches.

What I was thinking of doing was just having a lan cable come from the bt moden to a switch and then more lan cables to all the pc's in the house and then another lan cable to the wireless switch in my room to transfer the signal across to the other house.

Cheers,
Tom

Foxwood

tom_ass19 wrote:

Is dual-homing another another word for multi-homing ya?

It's multi-homed with only 2 "homes".

Sorry im still a bit lost on the routers NAT tables, can you just explaing what this is and how I can access it. Also can you explain to me how to put a pinhole on the network or portforwarding. So just does the pinhole have anything to do with the second adapters or is that accesed through the router.

You don't access the routers NAT tables - the router handles all that automagically. Portforwarding directions depend on the router you're using - see www.portforward.com for details.

So setting up the game server, just by creating a game server on my pc and put it through the NAT router, once again im still lost about NAT routers. Have no idea really. So i would set up the NAT routers IP address as 192.168.27.x and how would I do this, would this be the second adapters ip address's on the pc's in my house right?

Look, if you're not comfortable with how routers work and how to configure them, then I think you're being a bit ambitious. Get a router and play with it for a day or two. Once you've got a better understanding of what a router does and what sort of settings can be changed and what happens when you change things, you'll be able to get your head around what needs to be done.

I was thinking of getting this router for that job, do you think it would do the job or would something cheaper do, like a Linksys wireless router.

http://www.expansys.ie/product.asp?code=119330

There probably isn't going to be much advantage getting the 108 rather rather than the 54 - you'll only get the faster speeds if you use Dlink 108 wireless adapters. So you might as well save the money and stick with the DI-524.

(By the way, when you include delivery charges, Expansys are usually not the cheapest).

What I was thinking of doing was just having a lan cable come from the bt moden to a switch and then more lan cables to all the pc's in the house and then another lan cable to the wireless switch in my room to transfer the signal across to the other house.

You said that two of the houses are attached, so you're going to connect them with a wired connection - do that one first, because doing what you want to do with wireless connections is even more complex than doing it with a wired connection. Remember that you want the other houses to connect to the WAN port of your router (so that they can't reach your internet connection), but the WAN port isn't wireless, so if you set up a wireless router, any connections will be on the LAN side, and will have access to the whole LAN, not just the gaming server.

nellieswellies

What I don't get is if all the houses are going BTBB why not just use t'internet, latency should not really be an issue if you're all wiith the one provider.

tom_ass19

nellieswellies wrote:

What I don't get is if all the houses are going BTBB why not just use t'internet, latency should not really be an issue if you're all wiith the one provider.

Because I dont want to pay for an online server, thats why.



Ok Ive figured it all out, I think. Well the guy im living with told me to do this. Its the same job that we have in the house im in at the moment. Basically connect to the router and use the mac filter config so only those mac address can connect to my internet. He said more stuff about default gateways, to make sure that the four houses are on different default gateways.

So this job must work because it works for us, when I first came to the house I connect get access to the internet because he had the MAC filter enabled, when I gave him my MAC address I was ready to go. The wireless is the same thing. I couldnt connect to the wireless internet aswell without giving him the MAC address for my laptop aswell.

Hopefully this should work.

Thanks for all the help guys and to Foxwood for giving me all the required info.

Cheers,
Tom