Things about us micks that drive you foreigners nuts...

ScottishDanny

: )
Right, I'm offto a wedding in England now for a wedding (wherever that is) :rolleyes: and yes I'll be wearing my Kilt. Enjoy the weekend all.

RandomOne

ScottishDanny wrote:

: )
I'll be wearing my Kilt. Enjoy the weekend all.

Commando style I hope.

Ickle Magoo

RandomOne wrote:

Commando style I hope.

You mean au natural?!

Have a great weekend Danny!

metaoblivia

toomevara wrote:

Oh get over yourself! Honestly this is ridiculous, Ireland, and most of Europe, has nowhere near the level of the endemic, instututionalised racism that is a feature of US society. Having travelled extensively there I'm appalled by the tacit, self imposed apartheid that exists in many parts the states...and in relation to your choctaw blood, the treatment of native americans in the US is utterly unbelievable by european standards....I'd humbly submit that you are far more likely to be categorised and labelled by many of your fellow country men than an irish person...

You've got an exotic ethnic make up, you ain't plain-jain vanilla, more power to you, and if people are intrigued, interested by you because they've never seen anything like you, well its just bloody human nature...cant you just revel in it??? Take it as a compliment and instead of reacting with hostility and suspicion to genuine interest/curiosity on peoples part why dont you meet it with courtesy and grace..engage them in discussion and hey, you never know you might even learn something about them and their culture,instead of wandering around in an hermetically sealed bubble with a giant F**k Off etched across your features. Failing that, if you can't handle the heat get out of the kitchen.....

Lol, you're far too defensive and making a lot of assumptions. If you didn't want to hear honest answers, then you shouldn't have read the thread. You know what it's about.
Who said I was reacting to their questions with supiscion and hostility? It's annoying, plain and simple.
Regarding the way my people were treated by the US - Europeans, lest we forget, founded the US. Things didn't go start going downhill for Native Americans when the United States was established - it started going downhill when the first Europeans arrived. So forgive me if I don't pay much heed to these European standards you speak of when it comes to the treatment of natives. Not that it's anyone's fault because many of this happened years ago, before you or I were born.
Of course I was in Ireland to learn about the culture and customs - however did you get the idea that I wasn't? Again, being asked the same question twenty times a day is tiring. That's all. And of course I met it with courtesy and grace. I was raised in the South - I know no other way.
Please try not to be so defensive. As an American, people tell me things they don't like about my country all the time, whether I want to hear it or not. People generalize, make stereotypes and assumptions - learn to deal with it, especially when you're, quite literally, asking for it.

joe_chicken

metaoblivia wrote:

So forgive me if I don't pay much heed to these European standards you speak of when it comes to the treatment of natives. Not that it's anyone's fault because many of this happened years ago, before you or I were born.

It's like us and the Vikings.

I just can't look those damn scandinavians in the eye....

Bastards

Tha Gopher

Ickle Magoo wrote:

When I want a hot meal in hospital on a Friday & the only choice is fish, if I want my kids to attend a non-denominational school but have to enroll them at birth to assure a place, when I have no choice but to send my kids to a Catholic secondary school, when most public buildings contain religious effigies and there are little statuetes of the Virgin Mary & bottles of holy water from Lourdes left, right & centre, you turn on the telly & The Angelus is chiming away - then to an outsider it does seem ever so slightly on the religious side.....:)

No meat in hospitals on Friday? I thought the church done away with the no meat rule years ago.

Regarding sending your kids to a catholic school you really have no idea how little religion is actually thought in school anymore.

What public buildings have statues of Mary? Post offices? Garda stations? Welfare offices? The only one I can think of is hospitals.

Pink Bunny

joe_chicken wrote:

My best friend is a circle... I take offence to that :P

LOL!! That made me burst out laughing

I'm a "foreigner" and I can't think of anything about the Irish that drive me nuts , although I feel like I'd better contribute something just so I don't go off topic.

Ummmm... how about the driving? That's one. I'd love to know how ppl can drive so fast on sometimes very narrow and curvy roads. Kinda scary.

Ickle Magoo

Tha Gopher wrote:

No meat in hospitals on Friday? I thought the church done away with the no meat rule years ago.

Not as of 12wks ago when I was in hospital having my daughter....shows how much you know about how things still operate....

Tha Gopher wrote:

Regarding sending your kids to a catholic school you really have no idea how little religion is actually thought in school anymore.

It's irrelevant "how little" it is...it's still there. Going to mass, teaching specific RE, nativity plays etc, etc...as a non-Catholic I don't want my kid to have to sit out in the corridor while all that is being taught, I want the same choice of a non-denominational public education that every other developed country now offers....

Tha Gopher wrote:

What public buildings have statues of Mary? Post offices? Garda stations? Welfare offices? The only one I can think of is hospitals.

I said

most public buildings contain religious effigies and there are little statuetes of the Virgin Mary & bottles of holy water from Lourdes left, right & centre

- where I live there are crusafixes in the local library, Dr's surgery, health centre, etc, etc....(I haven't been in a Guarda station or welfare office but I wouldn't bet against something being there too) statuettes & holy water do appear in other buildings here as well as randomly in parks & beside the roadside....have a look round next time you go somewhere...try looking at things the way non-Catholic/non-nationals may see it. My husband thought the same as you, he didn't even notice half of the things going on here until I pointed them out...sometimes it takes an outsider to see the obvious.:)

InFront

Ickle Magoo wrote:

It's irrelevant "how little" it is...it's still there. Going to mass, teaching specific RE, nativity plays etc, etc...as a non-Catholic I don't want my kid to have to sit out in the corridor while all that is being taught, I want the same choice of a non-denominational public education that every other developed country now offers....
)

This isnt a gripe with Irish people at all of course, but yes, you are right. Religion features very heavily in most schools. I went a Muslim Primary School in Sth Dublin but went to secondary school with people of all faith and no faith who ha to go to Christian Primary Schools and they are (...were) able to repeat Christian prayers because they had been taught them regardless!

Thats a bit silly and shouldnt really be happening, but lets keep some perspective... that is neither dangerous nor damagaing to the child. And if my children had to go to a Christian school, the worst thing I could do would probably to ask that they remain in the hall during religious instruction. They might even learn something!

The best thing would be if this state ran and owned educational institutions (with voluntary religious schools being still allowed to operate concurrently). But thats not very cost effective until the Christian managements decide to give up their schools for the wider, broader community, which will inevitably happen imo.

As for statues of Christian saints - the only reason I would suppose they are still featuring is because nobody ever bothered getting rid of them, and old people seem to like it in hospitals, and lets face it, they are the biggest customers. I managed to chip the hand of one by accident in St James last year. Nobody seemed to mind tbh, cept Matron, who assured me I was going to hell:D

Ickle Magoo

Well, my gripe was how much influence the Catholic Church had on the state & the general population...my posts re education & statues, etc, was in response to several posts denying that Ireland was still very much influenced by the church...

I have no problem with my children learning about religions - what I object to is when it is done in a biased way ie this is how we do it & that is what other people think, I prefer multi-denominational teaching with an equal emphasis on all religions...the fact that there isn't is what bugs me - and whether it is damaging or dangerous is also irrelevant - it's not the standard of choice nor education that I want for my children...:)

InFront

There are a few non denominational schools in Dublin, which from your location I'd guess is where you live? I see your problem though, but changing it would be merely a change in 'principle' (haw haw) and a very costly one at that. But yeah, its far from ideal atm

Ickle Magoo

No, as I said earlier in the thread, both myself & the Dub live "down the country"...so even less choice than Dublin

gamer

the catholic church has control of most of our schools, so most kids do not get a proper sex education,re condoms,contraception etc, every 6months theres an article in the papers ,rate of sti,s are going up .THIS government makes it very difficult for any group to set up a nondenominational school.THE AVERAGE CHILD ,has little choice but to go to a catholic school.THE christian brothers are all retiring,but they are still trying to retain control of their GOVERNMENT funded schools ,in order to control the education system.I think many people get mArried in church, its a big day out,like communion,its a social event,nothing to do with religion at all.90 percent of people i know are non believers,ie they dont follow the rules of the catholic church,ie most people use contraception,obviously, 90percent of couples ,nowadays have 1 or 2 kids.NOT many people nowadays can afford to have 4,or 5 kids.Theres plans for 200 new schools to be built , i wonder who is gonna control them.You get 1 priest on the school board ,and he controls the whole school and cirriculam .Its time to admit we are a muticultural society, let all new schools be run by civilians, in a logical open way, with proper scientific sex education,with info on all forms of contraception,with a focus on STI prevention.

fly_agaric

Ickle Magoo wrote:

a non-denominational public education that every other developed country now offers... where I live there are crusafixes in the local library, Dr's surgery, health centre, etc, etc....(I haven't been in a Guarda station or welfare office but I wouldn't bet against something being there too) statuettes & holy water do appear in other buildings here as well as randomly in parks & beside the roadside....have a look round next time you go somewhere...try looking at things the way non-Catholic/non-nationals may see it. My husband thought the same as you, he didn't even notice half of the things going on here until I pointed them out...sometimes it takes an outsider to see the obvious

Would you say the other Catholic/lapsed-Catholic countries which I would guess have similar [not as strong as here] legacies of Catholic Church influence in education and other areas (Spain, Portugal, Italy,....Poland even) are "undeveloped"?
Or maybe you prefer "third-world"? LOL.

For example: Italy,

The revised Concordat of 1984 accorded the Catholic Church certain privileges. For example, the Church is allowed to select Catholic teachers, paid by the State, to provide instruction in "hour of religion" courses taught in the public schools. This class is optional, and students who do not wish to attend are free to study other subjects or, in certain cases, to leave school early. While in the past this instruction involved Catholic priests teaching Catechism, church-selected instructors now may be either lay or religious, and their instruction is intended to include material relevant to non-Catholic faiths. Problems may arise in small communities where information about other faiths and numbers of non-Catholic communicants are limited. The Constitution prohibits state support for private schools; however, declining enrollment in Catholic schools has led Catholic Church officials, as operators of the country's most extensive network of private schools, to seek government aid.

While Roman Catholicism is no longer the state religion, its role as the dominant religion occasionally gives rise to problems. Subsequent to a series of church consultations with political leaders prior to the 2001 national elections, President Ciampi underlined the secular nature of the State and the Constitution's explicit separation of religion and State. In February Parliament passed legislation favored by the Vatican that prohibits the use of donated sperm for artificial insemination, restricts the production of embryos, and limits scientific research on embryos. The legislation drew support from Catholic legislators across the political spectrum, while secular conservatives and Communists joined to oppose it. During the period covered by this report, prominent Catholic politicians joined the Pope and other church officials in asserting that the draft European Constitution should include language recognizing Europe's Christian heritage.

The continuing presence of Catholic symbols, such as crucifixes, in courtrooms, schools, and other public buildings has drawn criticism and has led to a number of lawsuits. In March 2003, Parliament tabled proposed legislation from several parties requiring display of crucifixes in all public classrooms. In November 2003, the Appeals Court of Pescara revoked a judicial ruling issued in October 2003, which ordered the removal of a crucifix from a classroom; the earlier court had accepted the argument made by one student's father, who is the leader of a small Islamic association, that its presence discriminated against children of other faiths. In October 2003,President Ciampi argued that the crucifix is a symbol of the national identity and not only a religious emblem and was praised by several politicians and intellectuals for his position."

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2004/35462.htm

Your real problem is that you think Ireland should be more like the other "Anglo" countries in these regards and the fact that it isn't (yet) makes you uncomfortable.
It's not a measure of "development" though IMO.

mickd

Having read this thread I have to agree with most of the views expressed concerning things about us Irish that bug/irritate foreigners. I have to say the funniest one was where your one had to leave the country because she kept being asked where she came from. Yet she still posts on boards.ie. If the experience was so traumatic, why would one want to have anything to do with the place?

Clinical Waste

How about the way some Irish peoples don't speak good:

-Filim
-tree (3) or any word with (wit) 'th' in it
-crips (crisps)
- putting a g after the d in some words (can't think of one now)

mickd

You forgot the most obvious one 'safety' always pronouced safeidy. If you listen to radio and tv virtually everyone mispronouces this simple word.

Ickle Magoo

fly_agaric wrote:

Your real problem is that you think Ireland should be more like the other "Anglo" countries in these regards and the fact that it isn't (yet) makes you uncomfortable.
It's not a measure of "development" though IMO.

A country being open-minded/modern enough to offer choices which may go against its history/traditions, is always going to be a measure of development IMO...

I'm married to an Irish Catholic and so have many Catholic relations, I've been to mass & weddings & funerals & baptisms, I've had some great chats with Catholic priests - why would it make me feel uncomfortable? It doesn't make me feel uncomfortable in the slightest, it just bugs me because I often feel like I've just been transported back in time. It bugs a lot of Irish people I know too - it's not just an "Anglo" thing. Judging by the amount of excuses & denial going on I'd say it's not me that is uncomfortable. There are many things in this country which have already been discussed to death here, which show Ireland is not quite the bohemian, metropolitan island some would have us believe...that's not to say it doesn't have many attractive qualities as well.

It quite funny reading this...the thread is full of posts from certain folks denying that church & state are intertwined and telling me how out of touch I am with "modern" day Ireland, while others are saying of course the Church & state are intertwined, this is a Catholic country, things have been this way for hundreds of yrs, they are still the way they were 100's of years ago, so what do I expect? Surely you can't have it both ways?! .:p

county

Clinical Waste wrote:

How about the way some Irish peoples don't speak good:

-Filim
-tree (3) or any word with (wit) 'th' in it
-crips (crisps)
- putting a g after the d in some words (can't think of one now)

You can`t talk mate

Ickle Magoo

county wrote:

You can`t talk mate

lol! I assumed he was being ironic...maybe not

Dyr

Clinical Waste wrote:

How about the way some Irish peoples don't speak good:

-Filim
-tree (3) or any word with (wit) 'th' in it
-crips (crisps)
- putting a g after the d in some words (can't think of one now)

the day i can succesfully order a ham sangidge in spar without having to repeat myself slooowly, point at the main ingredients and finally revert to presenting a ham sandwich powerpoint slideshow is the day i'll take criticisim from some fordinner on the finer points of the english sandwich...sorry, language

joe_chicken

Ickle Magoo wrote:

It quite funny reading this...the thread is full of posts from certain folks denying that church & state are intertwined and telling me how out of touch I am with "modern" day Ireland, while others are saying of course the Church & state are intertwined, this is a Catholic country, things have been this way for hundreds of yrs, they are still the way they were 100's of years ago, so what do I expect? Surely you can't have it both ways?! .:p

No, you can't have it both ways! But you can get 2 different points of view. Different people come from different parts of the country where religion is more/less prominant.

Of course the Catholic church is intertwined with our culture, it was a major part of it for 100s of years (hence all the statues and crosses), but to say it has a real influence on 1) Politics 2) Public opinion.. is... well... wrong

But I'm blinded by my Catholic upbringing and don't know any better of course


p.s. A question for you Magoo:

If you have the choice to send your kid to a good Catholic shool (and by good, I mean good education and not good Catholic values ) or a bad nondenominational school... which one would you choose?

I can see how it would be awkward in primary school (with communion and confirmation and things) but for secondary school?.... (I only ask as I went to a Christian Brothers secondary school, and there were alot of non-Catholics (including the teachers))

NutJob

OK Have been reading this thread and despite the odd tangent has been good. Things that bother me about ourselves are simple enough.

-Religion is a big one

I left second level education about five years ago now and can honestly say that being spoon fed the catholic religion if anything put me off organized religion.
Though i will say that sister Asumtas sex ed video still deservers a spot on telly after Podge and Rodge.


Also i was refused a quarter pounder last year on good Friday from a takeaway in Ennis but luckily a there is a Muslim takeaway near by which opens for ramadan and servers pork.

This year i had steak and only received one comment and frown to which i responded "Your not going to burn me as a heritic are you?"

We need more STD clinics that open mon-sat. As a minimum free contraception.

-Driving
Were plain and simply crazy and we might as well give out licensees with CornFlakes tokens and we have no intention in changing either.

Don’t thing i need examples

-Racism
There is a definite streak of this and have herd some wonderful comments in my time. The running theme seems to be "*random fall guy race* taking are jobs.
The above example was from a person who hasn’t had a steady job in two/three years has limited skill set, does more drugs than i do coffee(that’s a big achievement) and upskilling gets a *huh* response.

My other favorite is "Its all the Polish wha are bringin in the drugs and goin out and causing trouble." I can assure you the vast majority of trouble iv encountered has been by Irish natives and my last encounter was being attacked by two drunk idiots with Buckey in hand as i was returning a video to extravison

Can i say i have yet to meet a polish person i didn’t get along with and i have had nites out with five.

I have to say im lucky enough to be working in a very diverse workplace where i see a true random mix of races and its refreshing

-Alcohol
I can deal with the pub culture its ok but as a nation we drink to get drunk and that’s not so good. Yes i know its not just us and not all of us but its a culture shock when you go to a country where alcohol isnt a central part of the social life.


These are my personal opinions. Thanks to Ickle Magoo and the others who gave there honest opinions has been a fun but informative insight.

fly_agaric

Ickle Magoo wrote:

A country being open-minded/modern enough to offer choices which may go against its history/traditions, is always going to be a measure of development IMO...

Which would you prefer?
Offering different "choices" or a completely non-denominational/atheistic approach on the part of the state?

Ickle Magoo wrote:

It bugs a lot of Irish people I know too - it's not just an "Anglo" thing.

Didn't say it was. Feg, look at the threads here about the Angelus and how it has no place in cool modern multicultural ShoppingLand Inc.

Surely you can't have it both ways?! .:p

I didn't try anyway. I'm only responsible for my own comments on this thread

Ickle Magoo

joe_chicken wrote:

p.s. A question for you Magoo:

If you have the choice to send your kid to a good Catholic shool (and by good, I mean good education and not good Catholic values ) or a bad nondenominational school... which one would you choose?

TBH, neither - I'd move back to the UK first. School takes up a large part of our childrens lives, there is no way that my kids would ever be sitting out in a corrider or being made to feel in some way odd because they (we) don't conform to the out-dated teaching methods here. My kids are enrolled in an ET primary school (they had to be registered at birth to be assured of a place) which teaches about all religions while promoting none...I guess you could call it more multi-denominational than non-denomintational. If the situation hasn't improved by the time we send them to secondary then we will have to consider private education or moving back to the UK.

fly_agaric wrote:

Which would you prefer?
Offering different "choices" or a completely non-denominational/atheistic approach on the part of the state?

I would hope that it is not outwith the realms of possibility that one day Ireland can be a true multi-denominational country that offers different choices that suit all its inhabitants, rather than forcing them all to walk the same road. I would prefer the state is athiestic as well...in an ideal world I don't think that religion has any place in politics and elected politicians certainly shouldn't be promoting any religion over another...I think your choices are linked, have one & you automatically get the other & visa versa.

mickd

I am pretty sure that one day Ireland will become a multi-denominational country and I am sure if we didn't have the history (i.e interference from the Catholic Church and the U.K) it would have been one a long time ago. We have come along way but we have further to travel and I am confident and positive about the future of this country.

Darren

What annoys me is the way that Irish lads insist on wearing county tops (and sometimes full county strips) wherever they are in the world ALL the time.

Is it a 'Look at me, I am from 'blah' and I am so cool cos I am all the way over here' thing?

CrazyGirl

Clinical Waste wrote:

How about the way some Irish peoples don't speak good:

-Filim
-tree (3) or any word with (wit) 'th' in it
-crips (crisps)
- putting a g after the d in some words (can't think of one now)

that's just accent or slang or whateva ya wanna call that! They same in my hometown! german isn't pronounced the way it should be! I think you have that everywhere ....

sheepshagger

Don't have to that gripes to be honest (nobodys perfect).

One thing that sticks out though, and thats people (mostly girls) who look at you strangly if you don't buy your clothes/stuff in BT's and the like. . . the funny thing is most of these people cant afford to shop there themselves, its just all for show on the credit card (but their Daddy will pay their Visa card for them when they get in the ****).

I just laugh at them, they think they have money because they shop there . . theres more to life than Brown Thomas !

BTW - if your looking for an interesting read about the whole irish society (past,present and a bit of the future) have a look at 'The Popes Children' by David McWilliams. . you'll be suprised how many of the characters you know in real life ! . . a vey good read

Ickle Magoo

Thanks for the reccomendation, I've put that on my reading list...it sounds like a good book for me to read