Tractors and machinery on the road

BrianD3

Does anyone think the situation with tractors being driven on the road is unsatisfactory. It might have been alright years ago when there weren't that many tractors and traffic was light. But nowadays there are big numbers of tractors on the road, not just for agriculture but also for the construction industry (eg digger contractors, hauling building rubble) Now AFAIK tractors do not have to undergo a DOE test. It shows too as the vast majority of tractor trailer combos that I see have defective lights. I wonder how well the rest of the tractor is maintained too. I think it's disgrace that they don't have to do a DOE test as after all they are being used for commercial activity and in place of trucks. Significant numbers of tractors don't have proper mirrors or number plates on either the tractor or the trailer. They obviously get away with this as so many of them are at it.

Also is there any driving test for driving a tractor on the road and what is the exact situation with licences. Big tractors are pretty fast and can tow massive trailers yet from what I hear an an untrained 16 year old can legally drive one on the road. This is madness when you consider how much training needs to be done to get a full EC (articulated truck) licence. I know of a few crashes where someone was legally overtaking a tractor which turned right across their path without warning, tractor driver didn't look or indicate before making his turn.

Next one - combine harvesters and other very wide machinery. Surely machinery over a certain width should have some sort of escort. I see machinery being driven on roads where the machine is so wide that it's phsyically impossible for it not to cross the white line on a regional road. Even tractors can take up most of the road on county roads where there is generally no white line. I see near misses all the time where cars meet fast moving tractors taking up 3/4 or more of the road. In these situations even if the car driver is travelling at a speed which allows him to stop in half the distance he can see to be clear he may still end up having to drive into the ditch to avoid a collision.

Another question - what is the situation with agri diesel and tractors used by builders.

LikeOhMyGawd!

BrianD3 wrote:

Next one - combine harvesters and other very wide machinery.

Yeah - I've seen numerous combine harvesters driving up the hard shoulder of the M1, encroaching on to the inside lane and leaving a cloud of dust and hay behind them. It's truely mind-boggling that this is allowed to go on.

peasant

Yepp ...I REALLY love the unlit ones with those nasty baler spikes sticking out. Dread to think what it would look like if you impaled yourself on those.

jhegarty

How do you expect farmers to deliver thier grain ?

How do you expect combine harvesters to travel from one farm to another?

or do you want to shutdown farming becuase it bothers you?

Stephen

If tractor drivers pulled in at regular intervals to let the large queues of faster moving traffic behind them past there wouldn't be a problem, but I rarely ever see this happening.

peasant

jhegarty wrote:

How do you expect farmers to deliver thier grain ?

How do you expect combine harvesters to travel from one farm to another?

or do you want to shutdown farming becuase it bothers you?

Most combine harvesters are run by contractors ...they just need to employ a few more people to do the escort run with a properly lit vehicle front and rear.

As for the farmers own tractor ...just make sure the lights are working on the tractor AND trailer

unnameduser

The standard of a lot of tractors etc onthe road is indeed a disgrace. Ive seen some tractors with no lights, mirrors and sometimes no rollbar at all! IN the town that i live in (nenagh) there is a lot of local agriculture and also alot of construction. I see there is loads of young fellows driving large machinery and they are driving way too fast towing large trailers. THis items should be addressed.

As regards the large machinery taking up most of the road it is simply not possible for escorts!! In an ideal world the machinery would have an escort but there is no way this will happen. One would expect though that the machinery would be well lit, perhaps have warning flashing lights and the vehicle should be driven slowly.

kippy

I agree with the point that these types of machinary need to have the proper lights, numberplates and be up to scratch to be on the public highways and that the drivers need to be aware that they need to pull in now and again to let faster traffic pass-and in my opinion most drivers of these vehicles realise they need to pull in every now and again or make is as easy as possible for those behind to overtake.
However I dont think you can make a point for them not to be on the road.They have as much right to the road as anyone else. If you are behind one it is you who are expected to wait for a safe position to pass-even if they do not pull in. They are after all just a slow moving vehicle where drivers need to take more care and attention when driving near them.

EDIT- I reaslise that the original post was not specificilly to do with tractors on the road but this is what it appears to be turning into.
Hopefully someone can help answer the technical and legal questions posed.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/

im sure their are strict laws governing farm machinery on the road

but i cant see any laws to do with tractors and other farm machinery been enforced anyway...

unnameduser

Stephen wrote:

If tractor drivers pulled in at regular intervals to let the large queues of faster moving traffic behind them past there wouldn't be a problem, but I rarely ever see this happening.

i agree, it would be a simple solution to one of the problems. I see farmers pull in for other vehicles where i am from. I actually think it is the yonger drivers who dont pull in.

Big machinery = big man

jhegarty

peasant wrote:

Most combine harvesters are run by contractors ...they just need to employ a few more people to do the escort run with a properly lit vehicle front and rear.

As for the farmers own tractor ...just make sure the lights are working on the tractor AND trailer

Most harvesters where i come form are run by farmers who have hugh loans on them and need to harvest half the countryside to make the payments... I think you need to check out the margins in that business becuase you say its simple to empoy a few people...

agree that they should be lit up , buts thats already covered by exisiting laws and should be inforced by the guards....

peasant

As regards the large machinery taking up most of the road it is simply not possible for escorts!! In an ideal world the machinery would have an escort but there is no way this will happen. One would expect though that the machinery would be well lit, perhaps have warning flashing lights and the vehicle should be driven slowly.

What's the big deal?

A combine harvester usually doesn't operate on its own but comes with a big fleet of support vehicles. Just stick warning signs and surround lights on those and let them drive in front and behind the harvester. These vehicles could be other tractors.

That's the way it's been done in other countries for years.

unnameduser

jhegarty wrote:

Most harvesters where i come form are run by farmers who have hugh loans on them and need to harvest half the countryside to make the payments... I think you need to check out the margins in that business becuase you say its simple to empoy a few people...

agree that they should be lit up , buts thats already covered by exisiting laws and should be inforced by the guards....

exactly...

The cost of the machinery is huge!! It is very easy to say employ more ppl but this is not always economical

Robbo

jhegarty wrote:

or do you want to shutdown farming becuase it bothers you?

Can we? Please.

Joking aside, those bale-spike things always make me uneasy. Is there no way they can be muzzled, as it were?

unnameduser

peasant wrote:

What's the big deal?

A combine harvester usually doesn't operate on its own but comes with a big fleet of support vehicles. Just stick warning signs and surround lights on those and let them drive in front and behind the harvester. These vehicles could be other tractors.

That's the way it's been done in other countries for years.

i have come across combines being driven on its own without escort several times. I am simply saying that these cases happen.

IMO the contractors usually are the best to follow the proper rules and it is usually (not always) individual drivers who cause the problems

mike65

Moved to Commuting/Transport

Mike.

Padwick

Doesn't the UK have some law that you can't bring a tractor outside a certain radius of the farm yard? It would work lovely here too.
Got far to go? Then get a lorry to bring it or get a new job.

unnameduser

Padwick wrote:

Doesn't the UK have some law that you can't bring a tractor outside a certain radius of the farm yard? It would work lovely here too.
Got far to go? Then get a lorry to bring it or get a new job.

somehow i just dont see that working. A lot of farmers have land in different areas that could be up to 20 miles away.

Vegeta

i was sure i heard before i started driving that tractors could not drive on the roads a certain distance from the farm they operate on.

Since i have started driving i have seen nothing of the sort in any rule book.

Anyone know where this might have come from.


EDIT: Padwick beat me to it

Padwick

unnameduser wrote:

somehow i just dont see that working. A lot of farmers have land in different areas that could be up to 20 miles away.

I think it has something wirtten in about the centre being the main farm property. and not any surrounding land.

kippy

Some basic stuff here:
http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/other-road-users.html
The stuff about the machines not being allowed go more than a certain distance from the farm may be some sort of insurance clause as opposed to a road rule.

gyppo

I agree with the OP regarding modern tractors and driving licences. When you look at the speeds they can achieve, conbimed with the loads they can pull, it becomes apparent that its going to take some time and effort to stop.
I certainly dont think 16 year olds should be allowed drive them, and the law should be changed.

Last year I saw a tractor on the N6 roundabout (Kilmartins, Athlone) with the trailer lying on its side, and load of bales shed along the roundabout. The tractor (which was a big one) wound up with its 2 rear wheels suspended 2 feet in the air, as a result of the trailer twisting behind it. The gosoon who was driving it looked about 16/17. The reason for this accident - inexperience - the lad was going too fast. Anyone who knows this roundabout knows just how busy it is - luckily there were no injuries.

16 year olds driving agricultural machinery was probably permissible 20 odd years ago, when farm machinery was smaller, and less powerful than the behemoths available today.

BrianD

I wouldn't agree. By and large the standards of the tractors on the roads is good compared with days of old when trailers with no lights were the norm. Most farm machinery these days are flipping huge and lit like a small town. They are also all designed to comply with road regulations in terms of vehicle widths etc. As much of it is manufactured by European suppliers you'll find the standard of build and safety quite high. Obviously I can't account for the driver or the vehicle maintinance and no farm equipment should be driven on a m-way.

As for the agri-diesel - farmers can used this and I understand that this extends to other non-road vehicles such as excavators and dumpers.

BrianD3

Re: the excuses people have been making. Frankly I don't care how much a combine harvester costs or what logistical problems there are hauling grain or how small the margins in farming are. Everyone in every walk of life has to deal with their own problems. The tolerance shown to farmers by the Gardai and authorities is ridiculous IMO. The biggest problem i'd have with it is the inadequate training/licensing and the roadworthiness aspect. I'd estimate that 99% of the tractors I see being used for agriculture have defective lights, no numberplates, no mirrors etc. BrianD you need to open your eyes if you think most tractors around are in roadworthy condition.

Also if a machine is legally required to have an escort then it needs an escort. There should be no excuses about how the "poor farmer was only going down the road, sure what's the harm in it"

The other day near kinnegad I saw an eejit driving some sort of "bog tractor" along a narrow road. It was about 12 feet wide at the back wheels yet there was no escort anywhere. He wasn't going particularly slowly either. Had he met a car there probably would have been a crash.

Tractors used by builders tend to be newer, bigger and in better condition that those used by farmers. This doesn't mean that they are fit to be on the road though. I'd say 75% of them have defective lights

I'd have more of a problem with builders actually as i wonder if they are breaking any laws or at the very least exploiting loopholes by using tractors for building purposes. As I asked in the original post, are builders allowed use agri diesel? If so then why are taxpayers subsidising wealthy builder. If not then is this enforced? Whatever excuses can be made for farmers, I don't believe builders should be allowed employ a 16 year old to haul a digger long distances holding up hundreds of cars on the way because it was cheaper to use do it this way than to use an artic

kippy

If that person had met a car and there was an accident then someone was driving without due care and attention as both drivers should be able to slow down and negotiate a passing/overtaking maneouvre-if they were both driving safely. Whether or not the tractor had flashing lights/an escort or a marching garda band is not relevant in the driving/safety terms.
What would happen if the car met a flock of sheep, heard of cows or a cyclist fallen in the middle of the road...they would most likely slow down and negotiate the obstacle.


Nobody can expect to ban all such vehicles from the roads. As I mentioned before when approaching one of these vehicles some sense must be adhered to-it is a bigger road object and needs to be treated as a slower moving/large vehicle.
I do think that most of these vehicles are roadworthy and well lit up.
Just because the slow down traffic, they should be banned.....I dont think so.

BrianD3

kippy wrote:

What would happen if the car met a flock of sheep, heard of cows or a cyclist fallen in the middle of the road...they would most likely slow down and negotiate the obstacle.

The difference is that a fallen cyclist or cows in the road generally won't be coming towards you at 20 mph taking up the entire road.

It depends on what the car driver is legally obliged to do. If he's obliged to be able to stop in the distance he can see to be clear on his own side of the road then that's not going to be good enough if a tractor comes around a bend taking up the full road. As the tractor will enter the space that the car driver could see to be clear.

Now if the driver is travelling at a speed which allows him to stop in HALF the distance he can see to be clear then he has a much better chance of avoiding a crash obviously. However as I said i have seen some near misses. Eg a tractor going at a fair speed around a bend taking up 3/4 or more of the road forcing a car to drive into a ditch It is true to say that it is more to do with the driver of the tractor driving without due care than the tractor itself.

PS i am talking about county roads (below R classification) in the above examples. Generally there is not a problem with tractors taking up too much of the road on R roads and above. However wider machinery like combines can certainly be continually over the white line on an R-road.

Capt'n Midnight

jhegarty wrote:

How do you expect farmers to deliver thier grain ?

How do you expect combine harvesters to travel from one farm to another?

or do you want to shutdown farming becuase it bothers you?

Either make the combines road legal - License Plates , Tax + INSURANCE
a lot of them are setup so you can put the blade on a trailer the combines pulls along
or
move them on a trailer pulled by something that has license plates, tax and insurance.

Same is true of forklifts, dumper trucks, teleporters and the other stuff the construction and manufacturing industries take out on the road on short trips

Since all of the above are commercial, there is no excuse, if they can't afford to do it then they are trying to under cut legit businesses by illegal means.

TBH Also only 2% of farming land changes hands every year ( once every 50 years - the working life of a farmer) and the return compared to what the land is worth is tiny. Farm land is at a crazy price at the moment. many farmers should look at selling a bit of the farm while they can and invest it against when land prices drop.

BrianD3

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Same is true of forklifts, dumper trucks, teleporters and the other stuff the construction and manufacturing industries take out on the road on short trips

Add to that cherry pickers (yes i have seen them being driven on public roads) quad bikes etc. AFAIC all machinery should be registered, taxed, insured, lit and be road legal before it goes near a public road. That's how it works in civilised countries.

Some machines do have the above but many don't. Eg on numerous occasions I have seen eejist driving forklifts on the public road without without any sign of them being road legal.

jjbrien

Has anbody seen the machery at Whitehall on the M1 in Dublin on the first set of on and off ramps on the N1 comming from town the cherry pickers always seen to wait until about 5pm or 5:15 to comeout and drinve onto the on ramp slowing down the traffic they should wait until off peak times not when everybody is trying to get home from work.

Wishbone Ash

Stephen wrote:

If tractor drivers pulled in at regular intervals to let the large queues of faster moving traffic behind them past there wouldn't be a problem, but I rarely ever see this happening.

I do this when I can but sometimes, on a particularly busy road in Dublin, no one will let you out again.

It's not easy driving agricultural machinery in busy semi-urban areas. I occasionally have to drive on dual carriageways and if I need to take the third exit at roundabouts, it's virtually impossible to get into the overtaking lane.

My pet hate is other tractor drivers using rear white additional field work lights at night on public roads.

Bluetonic

jjbrien wrote:

Has anbody seen the machery at Whitehall on the M1 in Dublin on the first set of on and off ramps on the N1 comming from town the cherry pickers always seen to wait until about 5pm or 5:15 to comeout and drinve onto the on ramp slowing down the traffic they should wait until off peak times not when everybody is trying to get home from work.

Ah would you stop that. The traffic is slow moving from Whitehall to Lissenhall so this isn't going to slow you down any further. I don't know if you've driven around there at all times during the day but there isn't any 'off peak' times. Have a patience, surely you've two minutes to spare?

BrianD

BrianD3 wrote:

I'd estimate that 99% of the tractors I see being used for agriculture have defective lights, no numberplates, no mirrors etc. BrianD you need to open your eyes if you think most tractors around are in roadworthy condition.

That's a wild exaggeration!!! I live in Dublin but from an agricultural area. You are not just wrong but obviously wrong when you take a drive around the country. Sure, there are some farmers out there with substandard vehicles as there are truck drivers and private motor vehicles. Anyone recall the fleets of tractors that beseiged the city a couple of years ago?

Also if a machine is legally required to have an escort then it needs an escort. There should be no excuses about how the "poor farmer was only going down the road, sure what's the harm in it"

What does need an escort by law? Given that farmers are in fact the largest land users in Ireland they have every right to use their equipment on the road. You as a road user should pay heed to this. AFAIK the legal road width is 2.55m. A vehicle that is betwen 2.9 and 3.6m can travel unescorted. A combine with the yoke on the front towed behind it is less than 3.5m. Also farmers exempt from vehicle widths during certain months "(c) a land implement while used in the day time or in the months of July, August, September or October, during lighting-up hours while complying with the Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) Regulations 1963 (S.I. No. 189 of 1963)."

The other day near kinnegad I saw an eejit driving some sort of "bog tractor" along a narrow road. It was about 12 feet wide at the back wheels yet there was no escort anywhere. He wasn't going particularly slowly either. Had he met a car there probably would have been a crash.

You were probably driving through a bog so it shouldn't have been that much of a surprise!!

Tractors used by builders tend to be newer, bigger and in better condition that those used by farmers. This doesn't mean that they are fit to be on the road though. I'd say 75% of them have defective lights

They are the same tractors as used by farmers except for a different purpose.

I'd have more of a problem with builders actually as i wonder if they are breaking any laws or at the very least exploiting loopholes by using tractors for building purposes. As I asked in the original post, are builders allowed use agri diesel? If so then why are taxpayers subsidising wealthy builder. If not then is this enforced? Whatever excuses can be made for farmers, I don't believe builders should be allowed employ a 16 year old to haul a digger long distances holding up hundreds of cars on the way because it was cheaper to use do it this way than to use an artic

Builders or anyone else are allowed use agri-diesel provided that the vehicle is not used on the road. So a JCB that is moved from site a to site b via a low loader could use green diesel. If the digger is used on the road then it doesn't apply. Not sure how the law applies to farmers who would have to have some sort of exeption as many would need to cross a road to reach parts of their land. Then again a tractor is not exactly a company car sowho would want to drive around it for the sake of the cheap diesel.

Aidan1

A combine with the yoke on the front towed behind it is less than 3.5m

Many newer ones are wider than that, even with the header off. This means that on single carraigeway roads, it is impossible to pass them in anything. On national routes, they will be well over lane widths.

Most of the tractors you see around Ireland towing dumpers or low loaders are running on green diesel (yes, undercutting people who use trucks). Its not strictly legal, but enforcement is the issue. Its nice earner for a lot of farmers, and people are loath to upset them. In the UK, they are a lot stricter on the subject.

As for lighting, theres a huge disparity. Newer machinery is generally quite well lit, but the smaller farmers (for example) who use 20 year old tractors are often not so well equipped. Classic case is the guys in the midlands who break out the dualled up Massey 135s and Ford 5000s for a couple of weeks in the summer to gather turf. Its traditional, culturally profound, and highly dangerous.

My pet hate is other tractor drivers using rear white additional field work lights at night on public roads.

I have to admit to doing that on occasion. When moving large pieces of tillage gear (6m Vaderstad Rapides, Koeckerling Precision Pro cultivators, Horsch FGs etc) at night, with very large tractors, theres a real danger that someone will see the running lights and beacons on the tractor and completely miss the 5-7 tonnes of steel being towed behind. Keeping the rear mud guard lights on (towed in to the left and pointed down) lights up the towed implement and makes it very obvious to approaching cars. In lit up areas theres no need for this obviously.

BrianD

BrianD3 wrote:

Add to that cherry pickers (yes i have seen them being driven on public roads) quad bikes etc. AFAIC all machinery should be registered, taxed, insured, lit and be road legal before it goes near a public road. That's how it works in civilised countries.

Which reminds me ... anybody recall that a teleporter forklift used in the recent robbery of a security van in Dublin was stolen in Drogheda and driven down the hard shoulder of the M1 to commission the crime in Dublin?!? T

Couple of other points re tractors:

1) The majority of tractors are registered i.e have a reg plate.
2) There are fewer farmers and fewer manufacturers of farm machinery/tractors world wide. Farm machinery isn't arbitrarily manufactured but is manufacturerd to be compliant with the road and health and safety laws of the markets they are sold in. I know as I used to work in that industry.
3) Given that Ireland is a small market compared with the rest of Europe, machinery and tractors are designed with their norms which one poster suggests are higher than here and we should aspire to. Therefore they are designed to be road legal in Germany or Ireland or wherever.
4) The width of the vehicles is laregly irrelevant given the varying width of Irish roads.
5) Somebody mentioned seeing tractors without roll over protection. In all fairness, that's a message that farmers got years ago. In all my travels, up and down the country its a very long time since i've seen a tractor without ROPS. Most farmers insist on the heated cab with the CD changer and optional GPS.

I suppose it's a sign of the times with our increasing urban sprawl that the first time house buyer forced by our Government to live in Kinnegad and waste half of their lives commuting to Dublin expects to have urban type driving without a convoy of agri equipment trundling along the way as well.

_Kaiser_

It's very simple really I think..

If a vehicle (ANY vehicle) is on the road it should be taxed, insured, registered and road-worthy (properly lit, appropriate warning signs in place etc). Excuses like "how else is the farmer supposed to get to his other field?" don't apply. If he can't do it legally then he shouldn't be doing it at all.
The BIGGEST problem in this country is the "ah sure it'll be grand" attitude that pervades so much of Irish life in general.

Common courtesy (something sadly lacking from our roads most of the time) would dictate that the driver of a large slow moving piece of equipment would make it as easy as possible for following traffic to overtake (but still to do so in a safe manner).
In fairness, most tractor drivers I come across DO to this (and always get a "thank you" flash of the hazards when I pass them). In my opinion the bigger problem is 40 ft trucks that won't pull in when possible/safe to do so but instead hug (or frequently cross) the white line.

While maybe a bit drastic, I'm of the opinion that ALL large, slow moving traffic should be banned from main N-roads during peak hours. I've lost count of the number of times I've been held up in a convoy behind some truck that won't pull in to let following traffic overtake.

BrianD3

BrianD wrote:

That's a wild exaggeration!!! I live in Dublin but from an agricultural area. You are not just wrong but obviously wrong when you take a drive around the country.

Not an exaggeration, I am from the country, live in the country and have done so most of my life. I drive 35k miles per year on mostly country roads. Most of my relations are farmers. Even they admit that the vast majority of tractor trailer combos used by farmers on the road have broken or missing lighting. Add to that lack of mirrors and missing/illegible numberplates on other tractors and trailers. That's why I believe farm equipment used on the road should have to pass a DOE type test

I forgot to mention dangerous loads in the original post. I see these regularly too. Another one I forgot to mention is tractor drivers turning on rearward facing white lights at night. Often this seem to be done because the driver knows that his red tailights are missing/broken. A highly dangerous practice IMO

You were probably driving through a bog so it shouldn't have been that much of a surprise!!

It was a public road. It doesn't sound like you have a very good understanding of the situation if you come out with comments like that.

They are the same tractors as used by farmers except for a different purpose.

You know what i meant. I will spell it out - you are less likely to see an unroadworthy 1975 Massey Ferguson hauling building rubble than to see one being used to pull a cattle trailer

Builders or anyone else are allowed use agri-diesel provided that the vehicle is not used on the road. So a JCB that is moved from site a to site b via a low loader could use green diesel. If the digger is used on the road then it doesn't apply.

The whole point is that tractors and other equipment are being used on the road. The JCB on the low loader may be allowed to use agri diesel. But the tractor that's towing the low loader shouldn't be.

As for the point about EU standards and equipment manufacturers etc. - just because a machine is being produced doesn't mean that it is legal to use unescorted on an Irish road (or any other road in the EU for that matter) Also there is modified equipment out there eg tractors with extra wheels added alongside the rear wheels like the bog tractor I mentioned. The width of the vehicle is most certainly relevant if it's being used on a regional or nat secondary road and is consistently 2 feet over the centre line, be it continuous or broken.

Wishbone Ash

BrianD3 wrote:

the vast majority of tractor trailer combos that I see have defective lights.

A tractor/trailer is not legally required to have lights unless operating in a public place during lighting up time.

Also is there any driving test for driving a tractor on the road and what is the exact situation with licences.

A person between 16 and 17 years of age would be required to have a W licence. Anyone over the age of 17 can have a W licence or, if they have a B licence, they automatically will have a W licence. It is possible to do a driving test for category W.

Big tractors are pretty fast and can tow massive trailers yet from what I hear an an untrained 16 year old can legally drive one on the road. This is madness when you consider how much training needs to be done to get a full EC (articulated truck) licence.

A tractor may tow up to two trailers up to a maximun overall length of 22 metres but not permitted within towns with a population greater than 10,000. I agree with your sentiments re tractor v truck.

Next one - combine harvesters and other very wide machinery. Surely machinery over a certain width should have some sort of escort. I see machinery being driven on roads where the machine is so wide that it's phsyically impossible for it not to cross the white line on a regional road. I see near misses all the time where cars meet fast moving tractors taking up 3/4 or more of the road.

Tractors up to 2.75m are legally permitted on public roads. This would easily be 3/4 the width of many roads - nothing illegal there. During the months of July, August, September and October an implement attached to a tractor is exempt from width and length regulations during daylight hours and during lighting-up hours if it complies with Lighting of Vehicles regulations. I presume the same is true for combined harvesters and they are required to remove the header if it is detachable.

Oversized tractors and agricultural machinery are only permitted to travel on public roads to get to a work site and not as a means of transportation.

AFAIK only 'commercial' oversized vehicles are required to have escorts and must have an Abnormal Load Permit which are issued by local authorities.

One escort is required if the vehicle is over 3m in width, 22m in length, over 60 tonnes in weight and limited to 50kph.
Two escorts are required if the vehicle is over 4.35m in width, 30m in length, over 80 tonnes weight and limited to 32kph.

Another question - what is the situation with agri diesel and tractors used by builders.

I presume it's permitted only if the tractor is not in a public place.

I forgot to mention is tractor drivers turning on rearward facing white lights at night. A highly dangerous practice IMO

I totally agree. It's frequently done through ignorance. The light switch in large tractors generally has four settings:
1. Parking lights
2. Driving lights
3. Front work lights.
4. Rear work lights.
Many thoughtless drivers simply turn the switch all the way to position 4..

BrianD

Well with all due respects I travel the roads and highways of this land and I couldn't agree with you less. You are grossly exaggerating to somewhat prove your gripe. In all fairness, how many '75 Masseys do you see nowadays??? And if you do spot one let me know as I believe they are sought after by collectors.

Just as I would expect to see certain types of traffic and road activity in an urban area I would expect the same in a rural area ON A PUBLIC ROAD. Perhaps it's you needs a little more understanding and more time taking in the road conditions as you drive and the type of traffic you are likely to encounter. No wonder we have so many road deaths ...

You are groosly exaggerating the situation again when you suggest that the farm tractors/machinery should require an escort. As I stated all this equipment is designed to be road legal in Europe just like car and truck manufacturers make their vehicles road legal. Even some of those whopping John Deere units are all within 2.5m...extra tyres will just it out of 3m negating the need for an escort. Might look big coming down a country lane towards you but still legal.

The width of the vehicle is most certainly relevant if it's being used on a regional or nat secondary road and is consistently 2 feet over the centre line, be it continuous or broken.

The same applies to a HGV using many R or L roads. Our road widths are variable but we have standards for vehicles. Once you are within these standards you are technically entitled to use our road network.

There are farmers with broken lights, obscured lights, broken bits etc. but no more than the averages in the overall vehicle fleet.

Our man in Havana

What about the 13 and 14 year olds driving 40 tonne beat trailers? Nothing is done to these. Would it hurt the farmers to tax their tractors?

Avns1s

Very simple question; How many accidents does these tractors and other machines on the roads cause and how serious are the accidents relative to all accidents on Irish roads???

Our man in Havana

Avns1s wrote:

Very simple question; How many accidents does these tractors and other machines on the roads cause and how serious are the accidents relative to all accidents on Irish roads???

I can recall numerous fatal accidents caused by tractors. I was put in hospital by an uninsured tractor when he decided just to turn out of a side road without looking.

Avns1s

Bond-007 wrote:

I can recall numerous fatal accidents caused by tractors. I was put in hospital by an uninsured tractor when he decided just to turn out of a side road without looking.

Thats not an answer to the question I asked. While I'm certain your personal experience was traumatic and I do genuinely sympathise, I'm looking for actual statistics relative to the overall number of accidents not personal tales or folklore.

Our man in Havana

Avoca Co. Wicklow, 2 children crushed to death by a tractor.

Avns1s

Bond-007 wrote:

Avoca Co. Wicklow, 2 children crushed to death by a tractor.

Thanks again for your intervention Bond but same answer applies:

Avns1s wrote:

Thats not an answer to the question I asked. While I'm certain your personal experience was traumatic and I do genuinely sympathise, I'm looking for actual statistics relative to the overall number of accidents not personal tales or folklore.

I can try and make it more simple if you wish. :rolleyes:

Our man in Havana

2 innocent children killed by a tarctor driver, do you not call that serious.

I suggest you go back to your IFA meeting.

Avns1s

Bond-007 wrote:

2 innocent children killed by a tarctor driver, do you not call that serious.

I suggest you go back to your IFA meeting.

Bond, I never said it wasn't serious! If fact I doubt that you understand the seriousness of it, half as well as I do. Please dont lecture me on the seriousness of innocent children being killed if you don't mind.

Secondly, I am not a farmer nor an IFA member, nor am I ever invited to nor do I gatecrash meetings of the IFA.

Now, if you don't mind not bringing this into a personal battle between the two of us, I reiterate my question in relation to the statistics of this matter, something that I genuinely dont have the answer for and I would like, as I think it would inform a lot of the debate on this matter and cut through a lot of the tripe being put about by both sides of the debate so far.

Our man in Havana

Why don't you ask the Gardai. They are bound to know.

You don't hear of many serious/fatal accidents but I am sure there are loads of damage only accidents involving tractors.

jd

Bond-007 wrote:

2 innocent children killed by a tarctor driver, do you not call that serious.

I suggest you go back to your IFA meeting.

While tragic,it is anecdotal, not statistical analysis.

The Doktor

One thing I would at least like to see, If a tractor is to be driven on the road it should have to pass a DOE/NCT like everyone else, because dispite what others have said, I still think there are too many balls of ****e farm/building machinery on our roads (from what i can see, relative to other vehicles on our roads)

BrianD3

BrianD wrote:

Well with all due respects I travel the roads and highways of this land and I couldn't agree with you less. You are grossly exaggerating to somewhat prove your gripe. In all fairness, how many '75 Masseys do you see nowadays??? And if you do spot one let me know as I believe they are sought after by collectors.

Well I don't know where you are driving but where I live and drive I see many 70s and early 80s tractors on the roads every day. These are not restored/preserved tractors either, they're clearly in everyday use and are in bits. The trailers they're pulling look homemade and are also in bits. I would mainly be driving in counties westmeath, offaly, longford, cavan, laois, roscommon, monaghan. Maybe the farmers are richer where you are.

Even tractors from the sixties can be seen quite often too. PS I have seen two open tractors without roll over protection being driven on the road recently, although I agree with the earlier point that this is fairly uncommon.

Wishbone Ash - when I refer to missing/broken of lights I am mainly talking about indicators. But lack of taillights after dark is also a problem.

I am aware that farmer may not even be breaking any laws - IIRC there are some exemptions as regards lighting regs depending on when the equipment was manufactured. I know this is the situation in the UK not sure about here. I also don't know if this means that farmers are exempt from having indicators on their vehciles in certain circumstances. If this is the case it's madness IMO.

edit: as regards the wide vehicles and lane widths. Who is at fault if an oncoming vehicle collides with say a combine harvester which is overlapping a continuous white line but isn't wide enough to require an escort. Surely it should be the combine driver who takes all or the majority of the blame. Or is farm machinery exempted from that particular aspect of legislation

BrianD

BrianD3 wrote:

edit: as regards the wide vehicles and lane widths. Who is at fault if an oncoming vehicle collides with say a combine harvester which is overlapping a continuous white line but isn't wide enough to require an escort. Surely it should be the combine driver who takes all or the majority of the blame. Or is farm machinery exempted from that particular aspect of legislation

It's really an irrelevant arguement. If I am on an L road the chances are any vehicle will take up the entire width of the road. I have seen R roads where there is central markings but the lanes aren't wide enough for HGV's. Assuming that the farm vehicle is road legal - on a narrow road its going to be 50:50 and I'd imagine that on a wider road that the larger vehicle could assume more liability than the smaller one. I'd imagine that's how solicitors would apportion it. Though common sense would dictate that you yield to the larger vehicle. It's taken as read in other countries that you will encounter vehicles that may be wider than the traffic lane, so why not here?