Bad news for Limerick City in the census

ellenmelon

Crea wrote:

I would say that the reason the city is losing it's population is because the major housing estate development is being done outside the city boundry ie: Raheen, Annacotty, Caherdavin, Westbury. Also, city people are moving to the country because you get a bigger house and garden than you would get in the city (this is the case everywhere).
All of the people who moved to other cities did so because they feel that there are more job opportunities quite often in sectors which aren't very prolific in Limerick ie: pharmaceutical.
It has nothing to do with the weather and nothing to do with crime (as any Limerick person will tell you that most other cities are as bad).
We could do with being a bit more friendly but that's pretty much countrywide except for areas that rely on tourism.
So in order to improve Limerick as a place to live all members of this discussion should make an effort to look at people as they walk down the street, smile, be polite in shops, talk to people in queues and help the elderly, pregnant women, disabled people etc. It's the people who make a place great to live in so start being nice - I am serious by the way.

i definately agree that if the general attitude of limerick city citizens was better it might seem like a nicer place to visit and live. it makes such a difference if you go into a shop and you get a smile and a hello..and even sometimes more than that. i know that when i worked in cafe's i would try and chat away to customers and they would usually be really responsive to it.there's one girl that works in dunne's harveys quay who is always really nice when i go in there, which makes a change from the usual sulleness you get (i know, its dunnes.not the best place to work ive heard)in there and other places.. i get so peed off when i get blown off by sales assistants in some of the smaller shops that treat me like crap..who pays your wages im sorry?

i had a kiwi girl stop me on cruises st (fundraising yes, but i always say hi to them usually because theyre canadian and i love canadians!) and she was so smiley even though she was getting shot down from all sides. i know im biased but i think some irish people could learn a thing or two from us! lol

treat others as you'd like to be treated etc etc

limerick_man

Yes, i think that the fact that Limerick City boundary only actually includes Limerick City really does affect the population, also people who lived in the city over the past few years have been outted for these new developments of offices/ apartments (people who would claim temporary citizenship).
Also I dont think it can be taken completley out of the equation seeing as Limerick city and Cork city were the only two areas in the entire Republic of Ireland to see a decrease it population, Munster Rugby played a role!!

Limerick Dude

hopefully we will just get this boundary extension.

Is it likely that its going to happen.
and whats the latest news on it?

Pye

I'm not originally from Limerick but when I relocated here I found that people were lovely and friendly.In nearly two years of living here I only encounterd crime when some wee fella broke into my house. He robbed my phone and camera but was caught red-handed by one of my neighbors and give himself up.

I do think there is a little too much negative thinking when it comes to Limerick. But personally, I like it here and intend to stay, Not in the city though I'm afraid, I'm a country person so.

galwayrush

maybe Limerick Corporation encouraged the increase in travellers in the City as a way of reclaiming the title of Ireland's third city, lol ( just joking)

seriously, i think Limerick suffers a lot from negative publicity, but looking at the progress made in the last 10 years, the City has definately turned the corner for the better.the only negative experience i had in the City was being asked for " protection money " while doing a job there, not nice,at least it didn't bother me as we were finished the day it happened.maybe it was a once off, as i have worked there quite a few times and only had the one bad experience.

1huge1

galwayrush wrote:

maybe Limerick Corporation encouraged the increase in travellers in the City as a way of reclaiming the title of Ireland's third city, lol ( just joking)

seriously, i think Limerick suffers a lot from negative publicity, but looking at the progress made in the last 10 years, the City has definately turned the corner for the better.the only negative experience i had in the City was being asked for " protection money " while doing a job there, not nice,at least it didn't bother me as we were finished the day it happened.maybe it was a once off, as i have worked there quite a few times and only had the one bad experience.

are you serious? or is that a really really bad joke

Amazotheamazing

The first bit was a joke, the second bit sounds true enough.

galwayrush

Amazotheamazing wrote:

The first bit was a joke, the second bit sounds true enough.

spot on, even if the first part was a really really bad joke
i've found out since that the protection bit does happen way too often in the City.:(
this could affect why some people may opt to live away from the city and commute.

mysterious

galwayrush wrote:

spot on, even if the first part was a really really bad joke
i've found out since that the protection bit does happen way too often in the City.:(
this could affect why some people may opt to live away from the city and commute.

I want to stress the point.. People are not moving away from Limerick it's still one of the fastest growing urban centres' in Ireland... Boundary and the munster match affected the numbers in the census. Even still they were pridicting a moderate rise in population even it's it underbounded city area. The building alone, gives hints..

Limerick is booming, the pessismistic level has hit a new low since the census results came out last week, there are only premilinary figures. not hey are not truley accurate considering the conditions limerick is faced with. Cork has plummeted more, but there is nothing spoken of that. If the Mayor get's his way he will demand a recount of all the persons that were unoccupying their homes during the week of the Census. due the Gaelic and Munster match... Finglas had huge rise that day;) probs due to the odd few thousands Limerick supporters there.

galwayrush

it's the same in every urban area, in Galway, all the older inner city areas have shown a decrease in population, while the outer areas show strong growth.Villages 5-10 miles out have shown even stronger growth.obviously the boundary issue is the main factor regarding Limerick.

mysterious

Change in topic. Is Annacotty considered a suburb? I mean it's practically already agglomerated to Castletroy. On google Earth, it shows that Annacotty stretches to beyond the Castletroy golf club and the Newtown suburb, or are they all separte parts, from my understanding neither of these mentioned are part of the Ballysimon ED for the totals of Limerick suburbs and city, which I think is misleading. Just one last question has anyone worked out the population for the city including the EDs on this census.

gaf1983

Who owns the land between the Parkway and Castletroy all those fields behind Singland Motors? Or else the fields behind where Oaklands furniture store used to be? I think it would be class if it was turned into a massive park like the Phoenix Park in Dublin - maybe if the boundary extension is ever granted the City Council might just have enough money to buy it and do just that.

cornbb

I heard somewhere there's already plans for massive commercial developments on both sides of the road there... groody valley or something? More shopping centres, great, just what the place needs :rolleyes:

gaf1983

Edward Walsh has an excellent article in today's Irish Times about what he thinks Ireland is doing wrong with its planning and touches upon many of the issues talked about in this thread:

Let's try the Finnish formula for contemporary living
Edward Walsh

After returning from my first visit to Finland, my wife thought it was most disloyal to declare I wanted to become a Finn. Why? Because it appeared to me that the Finns I met had come close to finding the ideal formula for contemporary living.

While most are city dwellers, they have humble retreats in the countryside also. A compact but excellently-designed apartment is complemented by a rustic cabin hidden in the trees on some small island in the Baltic or by a rural lake.

The simplicity of the cabin contrasted with the sophistication of the apartment. Finns seem to lead parallel lives: the urban one produces world-beating advanced technology and the rural one reverts to simple living. The cabins are mostly hidden in the trees, constructed using local materials, respecting vernacular architecture. Some have running water, many still have dry toilets.

The need for showers and baths is circumvented by the daily stint in the wood-fired sauna followed by a plunge in the Baltic or the lake.

By accident or design, most likely the latter, the Finns have created conditions for modern living that appear idyllic to Irish commuters or those who despair as ribbon development slices through fragile countryside. Ireland could learn from the Finns. Finnish cities work.

Helsinki, a city of only half a million, has an interlinking street-car, bus and subway network that makes getting to work a swift and simple matter. Streams of commuter trains shuttle between the surrounding municipalities and the city.

Clean Baltic waters lap the shore as yachts tack between the islands.

Buses are operated by independent companies. Bus routes and timetables are determined by the city. Contracts for routes are allocated on a competitive basis.

Well-designed apartment buildings cluster about landscaped parks close to the city centre. The living is easy in Finnish cities and the countryside still retains its charm.

By contrast Irish cities have become sprawling, frustrating places in which to work or live. In the fragile countryside, towns and villages have been deformed by careless, incoherent development.

Recent census data highlight the problems of Ireland's regional cities. Suburbs are sprawling outwards into open countryside, while the inner cities of Cork, Limerick and Waterford are in decline. This is more than a matter of passing statistical interest: it concerns the future prospects of Ireland's regions.

In the evolving knowledge economy attractive, well-managed cities of scale and vision are the key drivers of regional development. European regions with such cities are likely to prosper; others to decline. The drivers of the knowledge economy are mobile and choose to live and invest in places where the quality of life is attractive. The lifestyles of many trapped in the commuter belts about Irish cities offer a dismal scenario to those contemplating investing here.

Ireland lacks an overall vision for the development of its cities and countryside. Most regional urban areas have long outgrown their city boundaries.

As a result, county councils, rather than city councils, have responsibility for planning the outward growth of the cities by default. The city authorities are frustrated in their attempts to devise coherent plans for the development of urban areas, while the county authorities are distracted from their prime task: planning and managing the development of rural towns, villages and countryside.

Politically the matter is challenging because each county resists the expansion of the city. Local energies and emotions are dissipated rather than united in planning good futures and attracting investment to the cities and their hinterland. As a result, regional investment has slowed. The hearts of Irish cities are in decline, while their suburbs sprawl into countryside over which city authorities have no control.

Only central Government can ensure that there are rational governance structures at local level. But given the nature of the Irish electoral system, successive governments have ducked the issue and over the years have done no more than urge the local authorities to collaborate and find solutions.

The outcomes have been as fruitless as the urgings are cynical.

The Local Government Act 2001 was seen as a hopeful development. It made provision for a permanent Local Government Commission to deal with a wide range of local government issues, including local authority boundaries.

The new commission could help provide the framework within which cases for boundary extensions could be objectively examined.

However, the intentions of the Oireachtas and the wishes of the cities have been frustrated during the past five years: the necessary ministerial action to establish the commission has not been taken.

There is still hope that Minister Dick Roche will have the courage to establish the commission and permit the objective examination of the urban boundary proposals from the growing queue of regional cities to proceed. Until this happens, Ireland's urban areas will continue to grow without coherent planning or governance . . . and be bypassed by knowledge-economy investment that gravitates to vibrant cities with vision and effective governance.

Dr Edward Walsh is the founding president of the University of Limerick

1huge1

it seems some little rogue is having fun making it clear that galway is the third city in ireland

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=128.101.187.94

ill change the limerick city to say that this is only according to the 2006 census and the border thing (ill do it later)

galwayrush

1huge1 wrote:

it seems some little rogue is having fun making it clear that galway is the third city in ireland

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=128.101.187.94

ill change the limerick city to say that this is only according to the 2006 census and the border thing (ill do it later)

does it really matter?
the last census showed the Oranmore council area, the area immediately around Galway City had a population of about 27,000 people.in the 2006 census, many areas have shown major increases from the 2002 figures.
looks like both Cities and surrounds are fairly similar in size, who cares which is actually bigger?

1huge1

true but wikipedia is about facts dont want people to get tyhe wrong idea like

Amazotheamazing

galwayrush wrote:

does it really matter?
the last census showed the Oranmore council area, the area immediately around Galway City had a population of about 27,000 people.in the 2006 census, many areas have shown major increases from the 2002 figures.
looks like both Cities and surrounds are fairly similar in size, who cares which is actually bigger?

To be fair, if you're going to start including 27,000 for Oranmore (presumably Oranmore to beyond Clarenbridge?) Limerick may as well start including Ahane/CastelConnell/Oola/etc. Very few large areas of Galway's immediate suburbs (as opposed to outlying towns like Barna which are effectively suburbs) aren't included in Galway's census figures, whereas in Limerick, anywhere from 40,000 - 60,000 (depending on how far you extend the boundary) people aren't included in the pop of the city, despite being defacto part of the city.

The whole 3rd city/4th city thing isn't what bothers me, after all, does a tourist/investor really think "ohh 3rd city, got to see that" and then think "4th city, probably a slum, I'd better avoid it", not really. What bothers me is the funding (gov etc) Limerick gets is based on it's population, and it's only getting the funding for 50,000 when in reality the city is some closer to 100,000.

However, Limerick (city and county) is responsible for many of these problems, and it's pointless getting into a compare and contrast with Galway (or anywhere else) about it. Limerick people have to make the step from complaining to changing things. Too often it seems we're waiting for someone else to come in and fix our problems.

The funny thing is, most Limerick people are fiercely proud of being from Limerick but are reluctant to stand up and be counted in helping it.

galwayrush

i can't understand why Limerick county council and City council can't come to some agreement regarding the boundary issue.easy to understand county Clare's opposition, but surely if funding is the only important issue they should make some sort of deal.

Amazotheamazing

galwayrush wrote:

i can't understand why Limerick county council and City council can't come to some agreement regarding the boundary issue.easy to understand county Clare's opposition, but surely if funding is the only important issue they should make some sort of deal.

I don't really see why we need 2 separate authourities anyway? Limerick is a pretty small county compared to Cork, Galway or Donegal for example, how do we benefit by having two local authourities?

There's a lot of money, and also a lot of ego, on the line in the boundary issue. Limerick's industrial estates rates bring a lot of money into county Limerick, and obviously the county is reluctant to give up that source of revenue, not to mention the rates from the various shopping centres etc.

Twinkle-star15

But why should the County Council have to lose anything? I think it's the City Council we need to get rid of- look at Cork: it's the biggest county in Ireland, with a decent-sized city (much bigger than Limerick), but it only has a County Council. Why do we need it when they apparently don't? And the borders, as you say, are ridiculous anyway. People living little over a mile outside the city are apparently not in the suburbs, but in the county. :rolleyes: .

Amazotheamazing

I'm not suggestting disband either council but rather integrate both. The real issue wold be with county managers and city managers.

mysterious

The Census figures for Limerick just dosen't seem logical..

If you look back... yes as little as far back as the last issued census - 2002. The figures for the city alone jumped just under 2,000. There are many factors for this, yet in 2006 not only did we see a decrease we see a drop of more than 2,000.

Suburbs such as Mungret and Clarina and Cratloe have only just begun to develop? have all seen sleepy growth rates. these towns are only a mile or two outside a large urban centre(in terms of Irish standards) still have huge infastructure problems and still rural in charactor. Galway and Cork are getting the investments, Hospital funding, Radiotherapy, Motorways and other funding etc etc... On top of this Limerick cannot even support or stand up for it's self. That is why there is confusion over the recent Census results and the likes. A major factor to affect the results I believe, is the Munster Match. It's funny, that the Census crew refuse to recount to dissprove this. The figures just don't make sense.

The co operation amongst the councils in the Midwest is hideos. Fair enough Limerick is not getting much attention/support as a city from the state compared to it's rival cities of Galway and Cork. But at least those cities have a plan and are able to think it through and make things happen. In Limerick it's just madness. The Midwest cannot even come together to make a uniform city. There has being progress in city centre developments and this is mostly happening because of private investors etc. Good job to them.

What can be done? willie o dear is utterly a waste of space.:mad: I mean where is he? What has he done about the Boundary extension? It just goes to show he actually is not concerned as a limerickman for his homeland.


North Tipp actually grew faster than the national average, which is surprising though.

Amazotheamazing

I dunno Mysterious, some of Galway's growth is becuase it sucks people down from the Northwest, some is due to better TD's, some is due to being in the right place at the right time and alot is due to the fact that Galway made a concious attempt to improve itself 20 years ago. Limerick city has been cursed by many factors of our own making. We have elected no hoper TD's for generations, from Kemmy to O'Dea (I'm still waiting for anyone to tell me one positive thing Kemmy really achieved for this city, despite the high regard in which he is held).

I agree about the co-operation between amongst councils, but this is slowly starting to change, simply becuase it has had to.

mysterious

Amazotheamazing wrote:

I dunno Mysterious, some of Galway's growth is becuase it sucks people down from the Northwest, some is due to better TD's, some is due to being in the right place at the right time and alot is due to the fact that Galway made a concious attempt to improve itself 20 years ago. Limerick city has been cursed by many factors of our own making. We have elected no hoper TD's for generations, from Kemmy to O'Dea (I'm still waiting for anyone to tell me one positive thing Kemmy really achieved for this city, despite the high regard in which he is held).

I agree about the co-operation between amongst councils, but this is slowly starting to change, simply becuase it has had to.

whos kemmy??? that tells a lot, if I don't know?:D