Why do people allow landlords to get away with it?

Dudess

Ok, I'm in the process of looking for a house-share/flat-share and have visited a number of places that aren't super-expensive but not cheap either. Every one of them is an absolute ****hole - not just in the sense that they're dirty, but they are in a bad state of repair and absolutely ancient. And the landlords are usually unregistered.
The tenants aren't students either - they're working. My question is, why do people accept such conditions? As long as they do, landlords will get away with such negligence, so I think such people are partially to blame for dodgy landlordism. Opinions?

Cantab.

Dudess wrote:

Ok, I'm in the process of looking for a house-share/flat-share and have visited a number of places that aren't super-expensive but not cheap either. Every one of them is an absolute ****hole - not just in the sense that they're dirty, but they are in a bad state of repair and absolutely ancient. And the landlords are usually unregistered.
The tenants aren't students either - they're working. My question is, why do people accept such conditions? As long as they do, landlords will get away with such negligence, so I think such people are partially to blame for dodgy landlordism. Opinions?

You get what you pay for. You must be looking for a double room in a penthouse with a view of the Liffey for €400 or something? There are loads of rental properties available and you can pick and choose to your hearts content.

Dudess

That's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is that certain properties are ****holes, yet tenants still take them. As long as this continues, landlords will continue to get away with leaving their properties go to ****. I'm looking for something between €400 and €500. Everything so far is a disgrace. But tenants are quite happy to live in such conditions so the landlord is laughing all the way to the bank. If people had standards then lazy, greedy landlords might actually take care of their properties. Where on earth did you get the idea that I'm looking for a "double room in a penthouse with a view of the Liffey"? Read my post again. I said absolutely nothing of the sort. I'm looking for a place that's clean and in good repair with all the essential facilities - not a place with cracked plaster in the walls, a bed with a mattress from the 70s with broken springs, carpets from the 70s (at the latest) that would cause allergies in the most resilient person, a kitchen that you'd be afraid to eat in, a bathroom that is a health hazard etc.

tazdustdevil

I agree with you that the standards of many flats landlords are renting are absoutely awful in this country. I lived in Scotland for 10 years and i never once had to rent a property as dilapidated, poorly decorated and furnished and downright expensive as some of the places I and some of my friends had stayed before and after that. I love this country but too many people have got away with shoddy standards for far too long in the face of property prices increasing by huge amounts over the last 15 years. While I was away, I was coming back visiting friends flats that hadnt been decorated since the 1960's. Of course its not true of all landlords and many are providing good quality accommodation. People need to start reporting landlords to threshold, CAB or PRTB......

Dudess

And this phrase "you get what you pay for" really irks me. It means "if it's cheap than you have to expect it to be ****". No you don't! No matter how cheap it is, it shouldn't be of a low standard. It can be basic, fair enough. But not filthy and unmaintained and with a landlord who doesn't go near the place except to collect their rent (and they're not happy with a standing order arrangement - hmmm. Wonder why that is). Even if it's only €300 a month, that's still a lot of money when your needs aren't being met. In any other sphere, the person who pays money is a customer/client and is treated with respect. Yet, when it comes to property renting, it seems that the landlord is licked up to (obviously not all) and the tenant is just a piece of ****. And this seems to be accepted as the way things are supposed to be. Mind-boggling.

tazdustdevil

Its crazy really. I lived in a bedsit in Dunville ave, Ranelagh way back (!) in 1993. Rent was 25 old punts a week and it was literally 8ft X 4 ft. The 1 ring hob and the tiniest fridge I have ever seen was at the end of the bed!!! I cant believe I lived there but I was trying to be thrifty. The landlord had four other properties in the local d4- d6 area each with 6 or 8 flats in them. That was before the celtic tiger. He must be a multi-multi millionaire now. However it still annoys me that the place was such a kip. I had no alternative at the time. I would almost bet 100 euros now that that flat might still be the same even though its now surrounded by designer boutiques and on the luas line. Now there was no economic boom then so there was sympathy for landlords but the uber investors that have lots of properties now have no excuse for not decorating since the 60's and providing shoddy accommodation with damp, rot, carpets smelling of pee and poor electrical wiring...

FillSpectre

Dudess wrote:

And this phrase "you get what you pay for" really irks me. It means "if it's cheap than you have to expect it to be ****". No you don't! No matter how cheap it is, it shouldn't be of a low standard.

Actually cheap means low quality to many people. You want cheap and basic but that is not what the retnal stock provides as they can get just as much money with less hassle by provding cheap and low quality. If it does adhere to regs than what is the problem? If it doesn't report them

Anyway the short answer is most things can be rented out at a low standard as many landlords won't take social welfare cheques for rent. The ones that will tend to have lower quality and cheap interiors.
So the the 3 bad things mentioned are
1) Dirt
This can be cleaned. For cheap rent would you not just clean it?
2) Bad repair
If something is broken you can simply ask to get it fixed properly
3) Ancient
So what if it works?
So the actual complaint really comes down to wanting better for less money. The only actual problem if something is broken which they have to fix. No body is building cheap property so new rental property is all expensivve rental. Old property is all that is left for cheaper rental yet it sounds like people here are expecting new property standards. Give it 5 years and you will see the newr place will look just as bad.

Dudess

FillSpectre wrote:

So the actual complaint really comes down to wanting better for less money

Jebus! NO IT DOESN'T!!!! Sorry to shout, but I can't understand why I'm not being understood! A property shouldn't be in a ****ty condition - end of story. As I said, I'm looking for something anywhere between €400 and €500 - anything I've looked at is appalling.

Firewalkwithme

As I am a small scale landlord I can see things from a different perspective than yourself Dudess. I can't imagine what it is exactly that you are expecting to get for just €400 - €500 pm. The fact is you are going to have to pay a hell of a lot more than that to get somewhere you consider nice. Believe it or not, it's not all that easy to make a lot of money renting property evan at the rates being charged today. What you have to take into account is that the landlord is not in the business of losing money. That means that the rent received should cover the cost of any potential mortgage on the property and also the insurance, decorating, furnishing and maintenance costs of the property. When a tenant moves out, the landlord is often left with a lot wear and tear (and sometimes in my own experience, plain vandalisim). You are then left with the option of either renting the property at a reduced price (i.e. somewhere in your price range) or investing in repairs and improvements in order to keep the rental income level at about the same level or higher.

You seem to want to have you cake and eat it I'm afraid but it doesn't work like that. Think about how much a mortgage along with structural and life insurance cover would cost if you were to buy a property yourself. Remember also that doesn't include any of your furnishings or decorations.

Like I said, I'm a landlord myself and I do my best the keep the property in good condition despite my tenants best efforts to the contrary at times. The rental income I receive just about covers the running cost of the property which means that the only potential profit I am likely to receive will be in capital appreciation when I sell the property at some time in the future. Even then, I believe I wil be liable for Capital Gains Tax of 20% off my profit and that's assuming that house prices continue to rise in the meantime.

FillSpectre

Dudess wrote:

Jebus! NO IT DOESN'T!!!! Sorry to shout, but I can't understand why I'm not being understood! A property shouldn't be in a ****ty condition - end of story. As I said, I'm looking for something anywhere between €400 and €500 - anything I've looked at is appalling.

I understand completely it is you who don't understand. I tell you the reality and you tell me you want something different. So let me explain that in terms you mighat actually get, you can't always get what you want but you might just find you get what you need.

As you have noticed there isn't property the type of which you want for your price so the only truth that can be derived is you are looking for something better than then money you are willing to pay. It is fact not a point of view. You asked why and it has been explained why don't you understand?

If it is a single place you are looking for at that money your problem is worse due to planning laws

CiaranC

Dudess wrote:

As I said, I'm looking for something anywhere between €400 and €500 - anything I've looked at is appalling.

What exactly are you looking for for that price?

You seem to intimate that you want a nice 1 bed property. The mortgage on same would run the landlord at least 1000 euro. Simple economics says that he is not going to rent you an apartment for 500 euro a month loss, no?

Dudess

As I said before, I want a place that's clean, well-maintained and has all the necessary facilities. Where you're all getting the notion that I'm looking for a palace is beyond me. €400 to €500 should cover what I'm looking for. And I don't think it's unreasonable to expect there NOT to be ancient, dust-filled carpets and mattresses, cracked plaster in the walls, gross bathroom, gross kitchen - I've said all this. Why on earth should I have to clean the place when I move in? By the way, I own a property myself in Cork (so I know not all landlords are assholes) and mere pride and decency would prevent me from letting it to someone in the same condition as some of the places I have seen in Dublin. Honestly, I don't know how some landlords sleep at night. By the way, CiaranC, again where the hell did you get the idea that I want a one-bedroom property?

CiaranC

My bad, I should learn to read. Im stumped as to why you cant find a nice property for that price range. My brother is looking at some beautiful apartments with 2 friends for less than that.

FillSpectre

Dudess wrote:

As I said before, I want a place that's clean, well-maintained and has all the necessary facilities. Where you're all getting the notion that I'm looking for a palace is beyond me. €400 to €500 should cover what I'm looking for. And I don't think it's unreasonable to expect there NOT to be ancient, dust-filled carpets and mattresses, cracked plaster in the walls, gross bathroom, gross kitchen - I've said all this. Why on earth should I have to clean the place when I move in? By the way, I own a property myself in Cork (so I know not all landlords are assholes) and mere pride and decency would prevent me from letting it to someone in the same condition as some of the places I have seen in Dublin. Honestly, I don't know how some landlords sleep at night. By the way, CiaranC, again where the hell did you get the idea that I want a one-bedroom property?

Let me explain again if you want better than there is on the market for your price it is you who is unreasonable. Do you understand? Your expectations are too high plain and simple. The resaons why have been explained.

You are being extremely rude to people asking questions. Why don't you explain more of yourself like you want to share in a house etc... So you know a 3 bed house for €1200 will be generally low market and €1500 won't be much better.

Dudess

CiaranC, you're cool.

FillSpectre wrote:

I understand completely it is you who don't understand.

Nope. You don't understand. I've made it clear that I'm looking for somewhere clean, well-maintained, relatively modern (not with so much dust that I'd develop asthma) and with the essential basic facilities (and I'm not talking about a flatscreen TV or a power shower - though I'm sure you'll make up your mind that I am). That is certainly not too much to ask. In fact, I'm sure if you ask Threshold they'd say that it's standard. And €400 to €500 would surely meet my requirements. My original point, though, is that tenants who are willing to live in **** conditions are totally aiding and abetting dodgy landlords.
Just saw your last post: My expectations are too high? Will you please read my posts properly. And also, seeing as you've recommended I explain my situation in more detail, the very first line of this thread is "I'm in the process of looking for a house-share/flat-share.

FillSpectre

Dudess wrote:

Nope. You don't understand.

You want a clean place with new appliance and nothing ia any disrepair for 400-500. You can't find it. Am I understanding this correctly?

AS you can't find a property to the standards you want you must therfore derive you are looking for something not avilable to your standard at that price therfore you are expecting too much in the current market conditions. Do you understand that as a statement? It is obvious you don't agree

Whether you agree or not simply put your standards are too high. As your question was why do people put up with it it has been explained.

There are minimum standrads of accomadation which registered landlords must abide by. In Dublin city council they inspect them pretty regulalary, that is the standard so if you know the landlord is registered and still not happy then guess who has too high a standard.

I suggest you look at a high budget to see if that is athe standard you expect or lower to see how much worse it can be.

AS I have asked you many questions you ignored why don't you re-read my posts and understand what is being said. I know what you want and I can see that you have an issue with things being new which you probably aren't even aware of.

To sum it up if you want better than your money will provide in current market rates you need to pay more to get a higher standard. You can dislike it all you like but you seem to mis the difference between agreeing and understanding. Of course for all I know is you are an idiot who doesn't know dublin very well and are looking in the worst areas.

WHy not post a daft ad you don't like after you see the place so we know your standard

Dudess

FillSpectre wrote:

I know what you want and I can see that you have an issue with things being new which you probably aren't even aware of.

Not wanting carpets, wallpaper etc to be 30 years old is not the same as wanting stuff to be new.
And my standards aren't too high because nobody should want to live in the type of places I mentioned. Also, I do think I'll find somewhere decent between €400 and €500 but I'm just appalled at the considerable number of crap I've seen so far. But this is straying from the point, as my original one was that people are willing to live in crap conditions while the landlord is having a laugh at their low standards. And if people had higher standards, maybe sub-standard accommodation wouldn't be such a problem.

I'm agreeing with Dudess. The point at least since I haven't had the joy of searching for a Dublin flat yet. I am rather shocked that people seem to think a dump is normal for "only" 400-500 euro, which to me is a hell of a lot of money. I don't have very high standards but for that price I'd bloody expect the kitchen to be clean and decently fitted, the bathroom the same, decent carpets and appliances and a mattress which can be slept on. What excuse can a landlord have for not meeting the basic requirements? I had a crappy flat in Spain, but at least it was dirt cheap. I don't want to pay 500 euro a month for something like that. The microwave worked but had no spinning plate thing inside and made a horrendous noise which woke everyone up in the morning, we thought it was about to blow up. Why is that deemed acceptable? Just because it's "working"? If flats are in a state when you rent them, people will treat them like crap. Why would you not make a bit of effort to replace ancient appliances and give the walls a lick of paint every few years?

FillSpectre

Dudess wrote:

Not wanting carpets, wallpaper etc to be 30 years old is not the same as wanting stuff to be new.
And my standards aren't too high because nobody should want to live in the type of places I mentioned. Also, I do think I'll find somewhere decent between €400 and €500 but I'm just appalled at the considerable number of crap I've seen so far. But this is straying from the point, as my original one was that people are willing to live in crap conditions while the landlord is having a laugh at their low standards. And if people had higher standards, maybe sub-standard accommodation wouldn't be such a problem.

The point remains people rent out such property becasue it is cheaper and landlords of such property are less fussy about who they take.

You want to rent at this rate yiuare renting at this standard so your options are lower your standards or pay more. You don't have a choice and moaning about it and get thick when it is pointed out is your issue.

You have repeatedly refered to new and now refer to 30 years I don't beleive that is the degree of difference and think it is your personal view that is the issue. You simply sound fuzzy and have expectation beyond the market. Do you want to take any personal responsibility for the issue or blame the entire rental population and all the landlords in Dublin?

The_Conductor

Before this degenerates into a slagging match a few points.

Landlords are perfectly within their rights to charge market value for their properties to tenants.

Link- The Residential Tenancies Act of 2004

Landlords are legally obliged to register with the PTRB (if they are not registered- report them).

Link to Landlords rights and obligations

Properties should comply with regulations and be maintained to at least certain minimum standards. If they are not- report them.

Here is a link to what can be expected as physical minimum standards in rental accomodation


OP- have a look on www.let.ie and www.daft.ie and you will figure what the going rate for different types of property are, in different areas. You may very well have unreasonable expectations- its not clear however where you are looking for a houseshare/flatshare, the lease you are willing to sign up to (obviously you will get much better value if you are willing to sign a much longer lease), the actual types of property you are going for etc.

Eg. a bedsit in Rathmines could well cost 500-600 per month- a houseshare may cost 2000-2500......

Have a look at property websites and have reasonable expectations.

Dudess

FillSpectre wrote:

The point remains people rent out such property becasue it is cheaper and landlords of such property are less fussy about who they take.

You want to rent at this rate yiuare renting at this standard so your options are lower your standards or pay more. You don't have a choice and moaning about it and get thick when it is pointed out is your issue.

You have repeatedly refered to new and now refer to 30 years I don't beleive that is the degree of difference and think it is your personal view that is the issue. You simply sound fuzzy and have expectation beyond the market. Do you want to take any personal responsibility for the issue or blame the entire rental population and all the landlords in Dublin?

*sighs in exhaustion*. My original point was that people are willing to take accommodation that's sub-standard, thereby aiding dodgy landlords. You interpreted this as me being too fussy. Too fussy because I'd seen a number of dumps for between €400 and €500 and didn't want to live in them. I know there are bound to be decent places for that but there shouldn't be ****holes in the first place. And I'm looking for somewhere pretty basic to be honest - nothing fancy bla bla bla. But you're just going to keep on arguing. So I give up.

crybaby

i would expect anywhere that was being rented out to be clean and all of the facilities in the property to function correctly, im pretty sure this is all the thread starter is saying and it is a fair point.

irlirishkev

I once went to look at a place in the city centre. €450 the landlord was looking for. It was for a room in a small 2 bed apartment. The room I looked at was small. I told the landlord I'd take it if he fixed the curtains (they were ripped and the rail was falling off the wall), and if he replaced the mattress (it was badly stained and actually smelled).

Never heard back from him. I'm assuming because he found someone else who was willing to live in those conditions.

So I understand what the original poster is saying aswell.

K.

CodeMonkey

irlirishkev wrote:

I once went to look at a place in the city centre. €450 the landlord was looking for. It was for a room in a small 2 bed apartment. The room I looked at was small. I told the landlord I'd take it if he fixed the curtains (they were ripped and the rail was falling off the wall), and if he replaced the mattress (it was badly stained and actually smelled).

Never heard back from him. I'm assuming because he found someone else who was willing to live in those conditions.

So I understand what the original poster is saying aswell.

K.

Look at it from the landlords point of view. They fix the apartment, keep it in good repair and the next tenant that moves in soils the mattress, rips the curtains, spills all kinds of booze on the carpet, never clean the place etc. A lot of people have no respect for the property they are renting. It costs landlord money to repair it everytime someone moves out. So they don't bother and just charge less. You'll find that a lot of the places you guys been looking at will go for a lot more if they are in great condition.

Dudess

But that's what deposits are for. If the tenant makes **** of the place, they don't get their deposit back, and the landlord can use that money to do a few repairs and a clean-up.

irlirishkev

Dudess wrote:

But that's what deposits are for. If the tenant makes **** of the place, they don't get their deposit back, and the landlord can use that money to do a few repairs and a clean-up.

Aye, and references. And the knowledge that if you're willing to rent somewhere out, you run the risk of renting to a*sholes..