Forgiveness in Islam

Medina

The following verse has me wondering, if you commit a particular sin again and again (and lets face it most of us do) , then will Allah not forgive it because you weren't ignorant of the evil you were doing?

[4.17] Repentance with Allah is only for those who do evil in ignorance, then turn (to Allah) soon, so these it is to whom Allah turns (mercifully), and Allah is ever Knowing, Wise.

babyvaio

Medina wrote:

The following verse has me wondering, if you commit a particular sin again and again (and lets face it most of us do) , then will Allah not forgive it because you weren't ignorant of the evil you were doing?

[4.17] Repentance with Allah is only for those who do evil in ignorance, then turn (to Allah) soon, so these it is to whom Allah turns (mercifully), and Allah is ever Knowing, Wise.

Allah, The Most High, has said in the very next verse this:


4:18
The forgiveness is not for those who do ill deeds until, when death attendeth upon one of them, he saith: Lo! I repent now; nor yet for those who die while they are disbelievers. For such We have prepared a painful doom.

First of all, Allah swt knows best what will His servants do. This verse is talking about those who constantly sin without even having an intention to ask for forgiveness until just before they die. In other words, they are trying to deceive Allah swt with this. They are not being honest with Him.

See, Allah swt mentioned that they ask for forgiveness (once?) just before they die - this exactly happened to the Pharaoh when we was dying, then he repented but it was too late according to this verse - so they think they will get away with this, but obviously they are being dishonest and they even try to fool Allah swt, but they only fool themselves.

Allah swt mentiones that repentance is with those who - eventhough the sin they commit is repeated times and times - that they are very quick in asking for forgiveness.

Medina wrote:

... then will Allah not forgive it because you weren't ignorant of the evil you were doing?

Allah swt does what He wills. If one were not ignorant of the evil, but knowingly commits a sin, one still can get it forgiven. But there are rules on how a sin is forgiven - that the sinner will do his/her best not do to it again, etc.

There are countless verse talking about forgiveness, here is a very good example of it.
The people that verse talks about are - among other qualities they have - also very sincere and honest towards Allah swt. One who sins all his life and then, just because he knows he's about to die, tries to get rid of all sins by asking for forgiveness - but not sincerely, but trying to deceive Allah swt. That would be explanation by my knowledge and Allah swt knows best.


(The Noble Qur'an: Surah/Chapter 033 - Al*Ahzâb. Verse 35.)
Lo! men who surrender unto Allah, and women who surrender, and men who believe and women who believe, and men who obey and women who obey, and men who speak the truth and women who speak the truth, and men who persevere (in righteousness) and women who persevere, and men who are humble and women who are humble, and men who give alms and women who give alms, and men who fast and women who fast, and men who guard their modesty and women who guard (their modesty), and men who remember Allah much and women who remember Allah hath prepared for them forgiveness and a vast reward.

Medina

Thanks for clearing that up Babyvaio..it seems that context is everything.

I thought 'Repentence with Allah is only for those who do evil in ignorance..' was one statement and even though the next was interlinked with it, it was just an example of someone not repenting.


So if I go out and kill someone and ask forgiveness, really meaning it sincerely I will be forgiven?

And then if I , in a fit of rage, kill someone else, and feel doubly sorry and ashamed and ask forgiveness really meaning it, I will be forgiven a second time?

Hobbes

Probably a question more for Allah, as everything else would be interpretation.

babyvaio

Medina wrote:

Thanks for clearing that up Babyvaio..it seems that context is everything.

I thought 'Repentence with Allah is only for those who do evil in ignorance..' was one statement and even though the next was interlinked with it, it was just an example of someone not repenting.


So if I go out and kill someone and ask forgiveness, really meaning it sincerely I will be forgiven?

And then if I , in a fit of rage, kill someone else, and feel doubly sorry and ashamed and ask forgiveness really meaning it, I will be forgiven a second time?

Surah/Chapter 039 - Az-Zumar. Verse 53.

(The Noble Qur'an)
Say: My slaves who have been prodigal to their own hurt! Despair not of the mercy of Allah, Who forgiveth ALL SINS. Lo! He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.

Allahu Te'ala knows best.

Medina

One might say then 'Where's the justice?'.

Where's the justice for the family whose member has been murdered?

babyvaio

Medina wrote:

One might say then 'Where's the justice?'.

Where's the justice for the family whose member has been murdered?

I think I said that sins towards Allah swt can be forgiven by Allah swt anytime and as He swt wills.

The sins against other people are different and Allah swt will not forgive them just like that but - a murderer has to ask for forgiveness that particular family (let's say he killed one member of a family), however this family has two options:

1. Either to ask for his execution (an eye for an eye, etc.). BTW Allah swt mentiones that that is their right however He also says that it is better to let go, to forgive.


Surah/Chapter 002 - Al-Baqarah. Verses 176-178.
(The Noble Qur'an)
2:176


It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the Prophets; and giveth his wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor due. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the God fearing.

2:177


O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered; the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. And for him who is forgiven somewhat by his (injured) brother, prosecution according to usage and payment unto him in kindness. This is an alleviation and a mercy from your Lord. He who transgresseth after this will have a painful doom.

2:178


And there is life for you in retaliation, O men of understanding, that ye may ward off (evil).

2. Or to let go, to "forgive him"

If event 1 happens (so the family does not forgive) then they will get their justice on The Judgement Day - in other words the murdered one will punish his/her murdered.

If event 2 happens then the murdered has to ask The Lord of The Heavens and The Earth to forgive him literally. Then you can apply the verse I quoted.

And the verse is always applicable if one commited a sin against Allah swt directly.

I hope this makes things clear now.

And Allah swt knows best.

Medina

babyvaio wrote:

If event 1 happens (so the family does not forgive) then they will get their justice on The Judgement Day - in other words the murdered one will punish his/her murdered.

So let me get this right, if someone murders me and my family forgive him, then I don't get to punish him at all in the afterlife? So the punishment is taken out of my hands?

Wibbs

Medina wrote:

So let me get this right, if someone murders me and my family forgive him, then I don't get to punish him at all in the afterlife? So the punishment is taken out of my hands?

Hang on. Surely if you have actually forgiven them you would not seek punishment after that, in this life or the next? What is your understanding of forgiveness in that case? The fact is that if you still seek punishment you have not truly forgiven them. The last line of the verse quoted "He who transgresseth after this will have a painful doom" seems to sum that up well enough.

Medina

No Wibbs you got me wrong.

If the murdered person hasn't had the chance to forgive, but his family forgives him, then does the murdered person get to punish the murderer?

Wibbs

Riiiight. Sorry. Got you. Interesting theological point. Maybe the way out would be to say that if the murdered person is with God in an afterlife they would naturally forgive in the prescence of same?

babyvaio

Medina wrote:

So let me get this right, if someone murders me and my family forgive him, then I don't get to punish him at all in the afterlife? So the punishment is taken out of my hands?

You have to ask someone with more knowledge that me on this one.
However, maybe you as the murdered one get immense reward? Or huge load of your sins is taken off you?

Honestly, I do not know. There are many Islamic sites where you can ask this question and insha'Allah you will get the answer you want.

But what I do know is that Allah swt is perfect also in His Justice.

babyvaio

Wibbs wrote:

Hang on. Surely if you have actually forgiven them you would not seek punishment after that, in this life or the next? What is your understanding of forgiveness in that case? The fact is that if you still seek punishment you have not truly forgiven them. The last line of the verse quoted "He who transgresseth after this will have a painful doom" seems to sum that up well enough.

I agree with Wibbs here. I one forgives then one is not suppose to ask for punishment, or else ones forgiveness was not sincere, but merely a misleading joke.

I think however that Medina asked - since the murdered person cannot influence on his/her family decision on this - what happens if the family forgives, however the murdered person is not happy with their decision?

Medina

babyvaio wrote:

But what I do know is that Allah swt is perfect also in His Justice.

As a Christian I agree

Wibbs

babyvaio wrote:

2:177

O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered; the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female.

Just read this bit more thoroughly. I'm confused(no change there). Now fair enough if a freeman kills a freeman etc. What if a freeman kills a slave? Or a slave kills a woman? How is the retaliation judged?

Medina

Wibbs wrote:

I'm confused(no change there).

Same here:rolleyes:

babyvaio

Medina wrote:

Same here:rolleyes:

It's a good question, fair enough. I honestly do not have knowledge about that, except for what I've said.
But I can recommend to you asking Muslim scholars who will be more than glad to help you - if you really want to know?

BTW

Now, just because you guys are slightly confused about the verse, that does not mean in any way, that the rule is not universal. Every single rule from The Qur'an and The Sunnah (The Way of The Prophet saws) is universal and can be applied anywhere/anytime.

The Qur'an is valid the same as it was valid in the time of Revelation and will remain as such until The Judgement Day. It's the last code/book revealed from Allah swt, after Torah, Zabur, ..., Injeel (The Gospel).

the_new_mr

Masha Allah (it is as God wills it). I see that babyvaio has already given a very comprehensive answer Nice to have yet another person on the forum who gives good answers. May Allah reward him and us for that.

Anyway, I have heard before that there are two types of sins. Sins against God alone and sins against other humans. Apparently, God can forgive a sin against Him (not praying, drinking alcohol, etc) but if a sin is committed against someone else (theft, unlawful violence, etc), then that person also has to forgive you on the day of judgement. Makes you want to be all that more careful really

So, I guess the forgiveness for murdering someone comes under this.

As babyvaio said, true seeking of forgiveness has to be done sincerely. So, that means that someone has to repent with a true intention not to do whatever act again. Then, if they do the same sin again later then they should truly repent again but repentance is only valid if someone has truly decided not to do it again and not just say "I won't do it again... or at least until the next time I do it" God knows what's in peoples' hearts anyway.

And really, Hobbes made a very good point with:

Hobbes wrote:

Probably a question more for Allah, as everything else would be interpretation.

True forgiveness is between each individual and God.