Why is rail transport from Waterford not being expanded?

Trotter

Here's another of my "wonderings"..

Why on earth is a supposed "gateway city" only serviced with one major direct destination from the railway station?

Can anyone see the day where we could jump on a train and head to Cork, or Galway, without travelling half way around the country first?

For example.. According to Irish rail's website, if I want to go to Galway tomorrow from Waterford, I have to first travel to Dublin, and then change to go to Galway. This makes the journey a completely non viable 6 to 8 hours long.

Equally the trip to Cork is between 4 and 5 hrs roughly.. again, a non starter. Surely one of the main objectives of a national transport plan is to have direct usable links between the gateway cities?

I have a pain in my face from listening to politicians silence on all matters important to Waterford.. and I see this as another one thats ignored.

I hear Mary Roche is running as an independent in the next election? Good. New blood in the Dáil for Waterford (I hope!!).. and well needed.


Edit - According to Google Earth (As the crow flies) Journey from Waterford -> Dublin Heuston -> Galway 196 miles.
Waterford to Galway direct -> 106 miles.


Now I know that the road distances are longer than those direct distances but thats just an estimate of how far out of the way you need to go if you wanted to get a train to another of the gateway areas.

Our man in Havana

There was a lovely train line to Mallow, until CIE killed it, you can see the ruins of it down Kilmac way.

I agree that the whole rail situation in the South east and Waterford is a joke. Maybe things will improve once Cullen moves along to a different dept?

Cabaal

The rail service may be ****e but atleast their's a hourly service to and from Cork from the bus terminal.

road_high

Trotter wrote:

Here's another of my "wonderings"..

Why on earth is a supposed "gateway city" only serviced with one major direct destination from the railway station?

Can anyone see the day where we could jump on a train and head to Cork, or Galway, without travelling half way around the country first?

For example.. According to Irish rail's website, if I want to go to Galway tomorrow from Waterford, I have to first travel to Dublin, and then change to go to Galway. This makes the journey a completely non viable 6 to 8 hours long.

Equally the trip to Cork is between 4 and 5 hrs roughly.. again, a non starter. Surely one of the main objectives of a national transport plan is to have direct usable links between the gateway cities?

I have a pain in my face from listening to politicians silence on all matters important to Waterford.. and I see this as another one thats ignored.

I hear Mary Roche is running as an independent in the next election? Good. New blood in the Dáil for Waterford (I hope!!).. and well needed.


Edit - According to Google Earth (As the crow flies) Journey from Waterford -> Dublin Heuston -> Galway 196 miles.
Waterford to Galway direct -> 106 miles.


Now I know that the road distances are longer than those direct distances but thats just an estimate of how far out of the way you need to go if you wanted to get a train to another of the gateway areas.

The Waterford rail service is actually quite good, and extra services have been added in recent years/months.It is far better than Rosslare, Tralee, Sligo or Westport services.
It is also one of IE's busier lines and presumably more economically viable than others.
The problem of Waterford being unconnected via rail to other gateways and hubs is the fact that our rail infrastructure is one shared by the other gateways too in- the problem being that it is centred on Dublin- something we inherited form the english.
Also the line is only single track, which greatly reduces capacity and constrains the timetable further.

The line provides a good link between KK, Carlow and all the rapidly expanding Kildare towns (=future prime hinterland for college students= South East university!). Therefore, Waterford fares pretty well in terms of rail links, if it had a double track it could be an excellent service.

merlante

The infrastructure is there on our end. We have a tracks going direct to Dublin, Limerick & Rosslare, with a stop off at Limerick junction for Cork. That's a lot better than most Gateways -- but the services need to be there to match it, fair enough.

Also, the English never built a national railroad, we had numerous competing railway companies with train lines going to every little town in Ireland. It was the nationalised CIE that finally reduced the lines to only those going to Dublin plus one going between Waterford and Limerick essentially.

Baby4

This post has been deleted.

road_high

Baby4 wrote:

This post has been deleted.

OK true,the other gateway cities being Cork, Galway, Limerick-I mention those towns because the passenger numbers are more comparable with Waterford. I would love Waterford (and consequently Carlow and Klikenny) to have the same frequency of trains as those cities but I honestly don't think the demand is there at present to support an hourly service like Cork have.I mean how often (and be honest) do people posting here actually use the current rail service??

I regularly use the KK/Heuston service and it's amazing how the train seems to fill up when you get on at Kilkenny station- it being usually sparsely(relatively) used by Waterford passengers, except maybe at real peak times.Maybe if more Waterford city people used it then it might be comparable in frequency to Cork and Limerick services?

Pity there isn't like a commuter service on this line say; Athy-Carlow-Kilkenny-Waterford only in the morning and evenings.

merlante

In fairness, the Waterford line would be a lot busier than the Sligo one. The Rosslare numbers might be high because of the populations in Wicklow and Wexford, I don't know.

The Waterford line is starting to get busier though, according to what IE say.

road_high

merlante wrote:

In fairness, the Waterford line would be a lot busier than the Sligo one. The Rosslare numbers might be high because of the populations in Wicklow and Wexford, I don't know.

The Waterford line is starting to get busier though, according to what IE say.

You're right, I think it carried record passengers last year (over 1 million or something if memory serves me correct). And yes it is far busier than Sligo and especially Rosslare ( 3 services a day only I think between Wex and Dublin if you excule Arklow commuter services).
It is also fortunate in having entirely renewed track and unlike Sligo or Rosslare uses the better Intercity type railcars, rarely those noisy Arrow-type carriages.So things aren't so bad, though there is much room for improvement.

Trotter

You're missing my point.. What if .. shock horror, I dont want to travel to Dublin or Kildare or Athy?

What if.. I want to go to the west of Ireland having seen all the ads for it. My whole point is why on earth name places as gateways when they arent linked!

Im not talking about capacity on the Dublin line at all. Im talking about building a railway from Waterford to Cork that gets me there in less than 3 hours, and a line to Galway that gets me there in less than 4. Thats infrastructural investment.

Just because the British didnt build us a rail system dosnt mean we cant build one ourselves.

Those gateways HAVE to be linked so that we have access to and from them easily.

road_high

Trotter wrote:

You're missing my point.. What if .. shock horror, I dont want to travel to Dublin or Kildare or Athy?

What if.. I want to go to the west of Ireland having seen all the ads for it. My whole point is why on earth name places as gateways when they arent linked!

Im not talking about capacity on the Dublin line at all. Im talking about building a railway from Waterford to Cork that gets me there in less than 3 hours, and a line to Galway that gets me there in less than 4. Thats infrastructural investment.

Just because the British didnt build us a rail system dosnt mean we cant build one ourselves.

Those gateways HAVE to be linked so that we have access to and from them easily.

It essentially comes down to funding and capital return I think; for the relatively few that want to travel to the west via rail, I don't think the huge investment required could be justified, not when funds are so badly needed for roads and the busier rail lines.

While I agree that we need to 'think outside the box' when it comes to infrastructure and investment, the problems we have on current rail (and road) network to be addressed satisfactorily before we contemplate investing in new intercity lines that mightn't have critical mass to support them.

Roen

Most of the railways in Ireland were torn up during the 60's and 70's. You used to be able to buy the sleepers from the rail yard for £1 each. God knows how much one will cost you now.
The line from Waterford to Cork along the suir valley and onwards was considered one of the most scenic railway journeys in Europe back in the day.

Anyone any idea why they were torn up?

Trotter

K.. Heres some out of the box thinking.

Do a ryanair on it and extend the runway in Waterford and tender for a government supported internal flight system that would make it much easier for passengers to use it.

Its really really time someone in power in Waterford spat the dummy live on TV or something and started banging their fists on a table. Do they not realise that it takes one or two ideas like this that will have an effect on daily lives of voters that gets seats in the Dail?

Ollie Wilkinson gets in and all of a sudden sports halls start popping up all over west Waterford! He has the right idea! For the money spent, it creates a massive effect on peoples lives.

Whoever builds a big leisure centre with a pool and indoor football facility on the Dunmore road for example, with some soccer pitches to be rented by the hour, will get a seat or keep his/her seat. Its all about effecting the lives of the people in their day to day living.

Anyway.. my internal flights thing.. Give that a year and watch the whole of Waterford heading to Galway for weekend breaks etc. Maybe Waterford to Cork by plane is a no go but theres where you put a rail system in. Lord though where could we fund such a thing?

How about spending some of the money that they're soaking out of me from car tax, VRT, petrol excise, PAYE, VAT, road tolls, and stamp duty!!

Open your eyes politicians! Build things we can use every day!!!

Bards

Trotter wrote:

How about spending some of the money that they're soaking out of me from car tax, VRT, petrol excise, PAYE, VAT, road tolls, and stamp duty!!

Open your eyes politicians! Build things we can use every day!!!

And spend even more of your tax revenue subsidising the underused new routes due to limited critical mass

kano476

waterford to cork was torn up because it wasnt making money - the bus service and the increased use of the car made it redundant. dublin remained because its our link to the capital. For the moment a train line to galway would be commercailly unviable but it could prove succesful over time if it had a journey time of under 4 hours people would definately opt for the comfort over driving. fact is a lot of people in this country particularly outside of dublin have reluctance to use public transport.

I could be wrong here but isnt there still a train to limerick..?

Trotter

kano476 wrote:

I could be wrong here but isnt there still a train to limerick..?

I think given the popularity of Cork Airport, the case for the railway to Cork could be made.

It would be easy to incorporate a few highly populated spots along the way in order to make a direct service to Galway viable.

I just checked to see if theres a direct train to limerick but the best I can offer you is an "arrow" to Limerick Juntion, with a change for Limerick there. 3hrs 15 mins. Oh thats at 6am by the way.

Theres other services to Limerick Junction there but under service type it says BUS. I dont want a bus! I want to get the train!!!!!

The public sector drives me mad sometimes. Yes... theres a train to Limerick Junction except its a bus. Sorry.

merlante

Dublin people go mad when they hear people from outside looking for more railway, because they have trains bursting with people at rush hour, not enough trams or trains, clogged roads, etc.

However, we should be about a little bit of spatial planning, since a little bit of money goes a long way outside the pale.

My attitude is that if they are going to the bother of persevering with a loss making line between Rosslare and Limerick, why not try to get some value out of it by completing the network from Limerick to Galway, and maybe even Sligo.

That's a well connected network then. Radial lines coming outwards from Dublin to major cities, and major cities connected in an arc, albeit having to take a detour at Limerick junction for Cork.

There is a plan there called the western rail link, but it has been heavily criticised for various reasons. I think the overall idea is good though.