Waterford; Ireland's Forgotten City

Baby4

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merlante

Yes, the problems is really bad. And our poor profile makes it difficult for us to claim a fair share of public and private investment.

When you get to the heart of it, everything hinges on there being a university in Waterford or not.

Baby4

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Trotter

Baby4 wrote:

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How do you all rate her chances of getting into the Dáil? I dont think her running will give SF enough votes to get in for a start. I think she has new ideas, and that bit of intensity and drive that we really really need. I'd love to see her getting in.

The thing is though, how should she angle her campaign in order to get the numbers she needs?

Baby4

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merlante

Baby4 wrote:

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No, the university issue is different. Get a university and you get radiotherapy, jobs, profile and basically everything; get radiotherapy and you just get radiotherapy.

It doesn't make sense for there to be any other agenda ahead of the university agenda. These days, cities are places where you can go to university, and get a job when you are finished!

decies

Baby4 wrote:

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You make very good points there.
I agree we seemed to be way behind the rest of the country and i dont even think we are the best in the south east.
Anybody ever notice how many on train from dublin get off at kilkenny,a couple of straglers are left to get off at waterford!!
By all accounts a big shop centre is being built at the kilkenny railway station,and i have heard at the weekend that marks and spencers will come to kilkenny and not waterford because of all the delays.
When was the last big factory announced in waterford,even cashel got 400 jobs today.
I do think that are local politicions leave a lot to be desired even when they got a ministers or shadow ministers job they make big cock ups,
Think we need keith barry to front a major and vibrant advertisment campaign,good god even belfast looks attractive now.
Galway has i think 13 days of a art festival on,before seven days of the galway races!!!!!!
We have two and a half days of spraoi,we need to think bigger,better,and longer festivals.
Utiliseing that river would be a start and perhaps the best visual thing in the city the marina!!!!!!
Freguent river trips for tourists and the like.
permanent ferris wheel on north wharf for the kids.
Utilise the park more go karts or something,and not the skate boards please.>>>
More and better street acts all over the city during the summer and not just in red square,these to be licenesed.
Please no more bad sax on the street

kitty_kilkenny

Be careful what you wish for...
I grew up in Dublin and left there in 1993 to go and live in Kilkenny. Over the past 13 years I've seen real greed and bad planning destroy parts of it. At the weekends, it's over run with drunken stags and hens from Dublin and the UK.
I recently bought a house in Waterford (wanted to be near the sea), and it reminds me of Kilkenny when I first went there. It has a lovely atmosphere, with a slower pace of life and it's not over run with tourists. Obviously I wouldn't like to see Waterford left behind in terms of public spending, but nor do I want to see it enter into the all consuming 'shopping mall' way of life I have seen emerging elsewhere.
Waterford clearly has it's own sense of identity and that was really apparent last year during the fantastic Tall Ships festival. Festivals can often be an excuse for the local vintners to try to sell more product - throwing on a couple of gigs in the back of a pub does not make a festival. Tall Ships was a true celebration of the sea and it was one of the reasons I decided to move here.
sorry for ranting on, I'm fed up of the Celtic Tiger eating everything around it, I want a simpler way of life...

Baby4

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deisemum

I like Waterford city (originally from Galway) and as an outsider I can really see how Waterford is overlooked compared to most other cities. I'd love to see it develop a lot more but not end up with the gridlock problems that Galway has.

From a tourism point of view Waterford needs to start highlighting it's hidden gems, they're so well hidden that after nearly 10 years here I don't know of much that's available to visitors apart from Waterford Crystal, Reginald's Tower (that hasn't much in it) Lismore, Tramore and the coastal drive.

It needs more specific places to visit that have more than just scenic views or walks since they're available in most parts of the country.

Here's just one example of what could attract people to the area. If someone/syndicate with money opened a theme park like Oakwood in Waterford I reckon they'd do very well. It would certainly attract people from all parts of Ireland and perhaps Wales. There are lots of people heading to Oakwood every day from Ireland.

No doubt other attractions would attract people if only we had them.

Cosmonaut

I lived in Waterford all my life, and have been part of numerous local groups, from Spraoi, to Waterford Music Network, and even skateboarder groups trying to get a skatepark built.

My house used to be on the outskirts of the city limits, and after 15 years of amazing development, it is now considered to be neerer the city than most.

I dont see what all the fuss is about, who cares if Limerick gets all the spotlight. We are a city that has nearly doubled in size in 20 years, has a much better infrastructure (the Quays, the north Quays, outer ring road) and much bigger college than we did before, and we have bernifited as much, if not more than most cities with the economy boom.

I agree with kitty_killkenny.
We are advancing at exactly the correct speed for safe, controlled expansion.

Oakwood in Waterford -- are u joking? Waterford is not a tourist dependand city, and would like to stay that way for obvious reasons that most cities do.

Tramores problem has nothing to do with development money. Its the hub of most organised crime and coke dealing in the South East and has a huge number of non working non-nationals living there. Its a dead town for 8 months of the years (because of my last point) and makes up for it when half of dublin comes down for a holiday (in the worst beach in the south east).

Tourism is not what we need.
Lets not be greedy, the city is doing absolutley fine, and has benifited from the economy boom more than most cities. Even if "Osbournes; My First World Map" shows Limerick and Galway, and not Waterford.

Baby4

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merlante

The difficulty is that Waterford is not a city in isolation. We can only garner the best resources, including hospitals, roads, universities, etc. if we maintain our place in the Irish urban hierarchy.

Currently Waterford is the fifth largest of 5 cities and regional capital of the south east. This is a reasonable position from which to argue for services. If other cities and towns progress, and Waterford is left behind, then this will change.

I'd hate to thing of Waterford becoming peripheral after almost 1,100 years of being to the fore. The problem is that success is relative. A city of 50,000 people is tiny in most parts of the world. In Ireland it's large, and it's enough to be a regional capital. Our success has to be on par with other Irish cities. That is an unfortunate requirement to be placed on us; in effect we have no choice.

Waterford has doubled in physical size, yes, but not in population terms. It has increased by maybe 25% in 15 years, compared with about 35% in Limerick or 70% in Galway. We are being left behind by other cities and we are being rapidly joined in population terms by large towns -- that is really bad for our future. The largest town is still maybe 15,000 smaller, but are increasing fast: the likes of Dundalk, Drogheda and Bray, etc.

Baby4

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merlante

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It's not that there is no hope, far from it, but people have to realise that there is a world outside Waterford that can't be ignored, and that some battles have to be won.

I would be pretty confident that if WIT were to be upgraded within the next 10 years, Waterford could compete successfully. Otherwise we'll be fighting for every damn thing, like radiotherapy or whatever, and we'll be grouped with places like Sligo, which are a lot smaller than Waterford. That's the worst thing really, that Waterford be seen as a place that is smaller than it is. This is currently the case, unfortunately.

Baby4

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merlante

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Funny how Waterford people just sit and take that isin't it? If any other constituency was being frustrated by not having one single resource and a minister flippantly said, "your grand, you don't need it," there would be all out war. There should have been a protest held in Dublin straight after that announcement.

Waterford asks for things, half expected the answer to be no, and always takes the no. This is a wonderful sort of constituency for the government -- you don't have to give them **** all. If it was Kerry or Kilkenny or one of those uppity counties there'd be demands made, and riots on the streets if those demands weren't met.

Baby4

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Roen

Ahhhhh Waterford people, the silent chorus in a Greek tragedy.

road_high

merlante wrote:

Funny how Waterford people just sit and take that isin't it? If any other constituency was being frustrated by not having one single resource and a minister flippantly said, "your grand, you don't need it," there would be all out war. There should have been a protest held in Dublin straight after that announcement.

Waterford asks for things, half expected the answer to be no, and always takes the no. This is a wonderful sort of constituency for the government -- you don't have to give them **** all. If it was Kerry or Kilkenny or one of those uppity counties there'd be demands made, and riots on the streets if those demands weren't met.

Wtf- Kilkenny an 'uppity' county!!!? We get treated like crap by this govt too you know; the fact they point blank refuse to give the south east/Waterford a university/decent infrastructure/radiotherapy affects us equally too you know.
Kilkenny is only keeping it's head above water thanks to its fairly central location and what locals have done- sweet af to do with what the government has (or more appropriately) hasn't done for this constituency.

Baby4

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Roen

Simply that we are probably the most apolitical people I know of.
I couldn't agree more with most of the points made above, however if anything is to be done about it people will have to get up off their arses and do something.
I think someone on the Waterford forum once stated that you get the government you deserve. That is so very true. As long as us Waterford people live up to our tag of Déise (gentle people) then bugger all will happen. Even if a few progressive thinking people banded together the majority will, as I said above, remain silent.

merlante

Baby4 wrote:

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One high profile mistake, the e-voting machines. Which were already used IN A DAIL ELECTION by his predecessor (Dempsey) is 4 constituencies. I personally believe he was told to quietly take the fall for that one, and this is what he did. (Although he did get himself into trouble in the first place.)

On the back of this one mistake, which was a mistake at least shared with his predecessor, a complete hatchet job was conducted against the Waterford minister to weaken his power base and render him impotent. The e-voting thing was blown out of all proportion -- compare to Michael Martin's already forgotten robbing of pensioners scandal.

Next they speculated on who the man was sleeping with, who he hired, how they were hired, how much they were paid, whether he gave them free holidays or not. Two reports were commissioned to investigate his hiring of one of his staff. One had no complaints, the other advised a couple of changes to the hiring procedures and that was the end of that.

Cullen was severely damaged as a political force after these allegations, unlike in Cork or elsewhere, his own constituency was never likely to support him.

You can say, ah yeah, but the guy is this and that. There's no smoke without fire, etc. etc. The point is that you could make similar allegations against any of them -- the point is why was Cullen targeted? For me, it was a hatchet job, pure and simple.

The result is that while the minister in Kerry can spend millions in Kerry and devote a huge percentage of the national tourism funds there, the minister in Waterford gets hammered for securing funding for park and ride for the Tall Ships.

Says it all really.

Baby4

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merlante

mfitzy wrote:

Wtf- Kilkenny an 'uppity' county!!!? We get treated like crap by this govt too you know; the fact they point blank refuse to give the south east/Waterford a university/decent infrastructure/radiotherapy affects us equally too you know.
Kilkenny is only keeping it's head above water thanks to its fairly central location and what locals have done- sweet af to do with what the government has (or more appropriately) hasn't done for this constituency.

That's because Kilkenny spends too much of its time fighting for things that are going for Waterford, instead of co-operating with Waterford.

Examples of the uppity behaviour I mentioned was trying to get the Waterford Regional Hospital moved to Kilkenny! Causing previous university campaigns to fail by insisting that the university be situated in Kilkenny. And in fairness to ye, and ability to promote yourselves well outside of your county. I mention the first two incidents because it illustrates that even though Kilkenny is only 40% of the size of Waterford, it has often had the same amount of clout.

It takes a fair amount of uppitiness or whatever you call it to play that sort of game. Waterford could do with a bit of it. Also, compare Clonmel to Kilkenny: both towns of more or less the same size, but Kilkenny has a much better reputation and secured hub status in the spatial strategy when Clonmel got no designation. And so on.

merlante

Baby4 wrote:

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Ah sure, Cullen is probably not well liked anywhere, but he's not the worst of them. There's a few dozey ministers there that would lose their life if the media looked at them with half the scrutiny they gave to Cullen. It's the quiet ones that are wasting most of the money I reckon, building rocket ships in Leitrim, etc. I can't think of one real piece of pro-Waterford corruption poor Cullen has been able to pull off.

Ah no harm to bang these ideas about. Just don't blindly repeat everything you hear, because you might have to back it up.

road_high

merlante wrote:

That's because Kilkenny spends too much of its time fighting for things that are going for Waterford, instead of co-operating with Waterford.

Examples of the uppity behaviour I mentioned was trying to get the Waterford Regional Hospital moved to Kilkenny! Causing previous university campaigns to fail by insisting that the university be situated in Kilkenny. And in fairness to ye, and ability to promote yourselves well outside of your county. I mention the first two incidents because it illustrates that even though Kilkenny is only 40% of the size of Waterford, it has often had the same amount of clout.

It takes a fair amount of uppitiness or whatever you call it to play that sort of game. Waterford could do with a bit of it. Also, compare Clonmel to Kilkenny: both towns of more or less the same size, but Kilkenny has a much better reputation and secured hub status in the spatial strategy when Clonmel got no designation. And so on.

Oh god hear we go once again....I have not heard one local politician (apart from one Carlow one) say KK should get a uni over Waterford or made statements like 'move the regional hosp' up to Kilkenny.That's nonsense.I myself have actually signed a Waterford led petition for a university.
Can you please be more specific on the previous university campaigns you say the people of KK blocked???
Here's one local future TD that supports it clearly:
http://www.johnpaulphelan.com/read_press.php?PressID=101

And when exactly have we had the same amount of clout?- it's been a generation since we had a senior minister in Jim Gibbons, and it shows. Lucky for Waterford theyve had Cullen for the last year and I don't begrudge them it one bit- it has to be good for the region in my view to have representation at cabinet level.

Wohoo Hub Status under the NSS, like that means anything in fairness- the NSS is yet another governemnt failure and attempt to hoodwink voters into thinking theyre actaully doing something meaningful for the regions.

KK has a percieved better repuation due to the hard work and commitment of a few in the local civic and business community, certainly not down to favouritism shown to us by government.
When you really look at it clinically, there is in fact little concrete amjor things like a college or regional hosp you can point to in Kilkenny.It is fast becoming another souless outpost of Dublin like every other town in Leinster.

And yes, if we had a senior minister that oversaw one of the biggest wastes of taxpayers money and was embroiled in a controversy involving awarding of lucrative govt PR contracts to close personal friends I would be one of the first to criticise them. It's not because he is from Waterford thew rest of the country dislike/distrust him- it is for the reasons I have just outlined. There is no anti-Waterford conspiracy, singling Cullen out as incompetent- the rest are just as bad too.

Baby4

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merlante

Baby4 wrote:

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Most of them have a skeleton on the closet... Cullen has a thoroughly ransacked closet.

I think maybe there were only something like 2 bidders for the job, so all things being equal she had a 50/50 chance anyway -- not sure about that. In any case, I'd say there were few enough Waterford PR agents hired during the long years when Waterford had no minister... Her career was all but ruined incidentally by the scandal, or at least set back, by all accounts. She's now chairman/woman/person/unit of the chamber of commerce, iirc.

That's not to excuse petty corruption, if that's what it was, but it's rife everywhere in this country... And two reports did back him up after all.

As for Cullen being a crook. That hardly seems fair. What has he stolen for himself?

kano476

Cosmonaut wrote:

Tramores problem has nothing to do with development money. Its the hub of most organised crime and coke dealing in the South East and has a huge number of non working non-nationals living there.

eh? lol first ive heard of this! where the hell did you get that out of!? I honestly cant understand where the town has got this rep from.

leave the tramafricans out of this too, theyre nice people!

kitty_kilkenny

Tell you what, I'd put money on this. When the Motorway from Dublin to Waterford is finished and the new bridge is built, the Dubs will really discover that there is a Waterford beyond Tramore, they'll be down here buying up property and ruining the coastline as they have done to Wexford and Connemara (known as Connemara 4, as it's all owned by the Dublin hoi poloi).
They'll push the price of property up so that locals won't be able to buy in the area they grew up in.
I for one don't want Waterford to become just another holiday destination for weekenders in their SUVs.
And speaking of Tramore, I normally swim in Dunmore East, but for a change went to Tramore beach last week, I had to get out of the water because some idiot started showing off on a jet ski and scaring the swimmers. There doesn't seem to be any safety measures in place there - Whats the story?!
Jet skis are banned in County Clare this year...