Waterford; Ireland's Forgotten City

Trotter

I think I'll be voting for Mary Roche.. She's new, plenty of ideas, a good track record, and hasnt got a party whip behind her.

Maybe... Just Maybe.. our prayers for a hung Dáil will be answered and the independents will hold the key. Then I think we are in business.

merlante

All interesting points. I like the 'holding the politicians to the things they promised' bit, although very often party whips will compel a politician to 'relax' certain goals, and they might have to pick their battles.

Mary Roche sounds like a good alternative, although I know nothing about her except that she has no party and is a woman: but even that is innovative for Waterford these days. But that's the thing, without a hung Dail independents are about as useless as two right shoes!

Of the TDs were have, I'd stick with Cullen, I'd like to stick with O'Shea, because he's a tireless fighter for Waterford and an excellent TD, although is not in the running for a cabinet seat with Labour so is unlikely to get the platform he needs to do anything other than complain and 'highlight'. I had great hopes for Deasy, but I believe that he will never make it. I could be wrong, but I think he's too much of an eejit. The 'new' FG guy from the city, whose name escapes me, might be decent, and one FGer will get in. Wilkinson is a complete waste of space. Cullinane might be good enough, but I'd rather if Waterford didn't look like a total shinner town. At least he'd have a good profile, and is very ambitious.

So maybe Cullen and any 3 from the following 4: Roche, Cullinane, O'Shea and the city FG candidate. It will be interesting to see where the socialist vote goes. Very hard to see Roche getting elected unless everything is turned on its head this time.

Baby4

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Trotter

Baby4 wrote:

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She'll do more for the city than Ollie Wilkinson did. Her objective should be to shout and scream and make noise about Waterfords needs, which would put pressure on the other 3 party TD's to work harder. This is vital and I really really hope we dont miss out on the opportunity to adjust our representation.

merlante wrote:

Cullinane might be good enough, but I'd rather if Waterford didn't look like a total shinner town. At least he'd have a good profile, and is very ambitious.

Forget Cullinane.. if he got elected, he'd be a Sinn Fein puppet with no flexibility to do anything except follow HQ instructions.

Bards

Trotter wrote:

She'll do more for the city than Ollie Wilkinson did. Her objective should be to shout and scream and make noise about Waterfords needs, which would put pressure on the other 3 party TD's to work harder. This is vital and I really really hope we dont miss out on the opportunity to adjust our representation.



Forget Cullinane.. if he got elected, he'd be a Sinn Fein puppet with no flexibility to do anything except follow HQ instructions.

Even though I am not a SF supporter.. I would like to see anything other than 2 x FF, 1 x FG and 1 Labour seats.... As it has been this way for years and years....and a bit less of the status quo would be nice

galwayrush

whatever way you vote next time, please don't inflict clueless Cullen on us again,

Trotter

Bards wrote:

Even though I am not a SF supporter.. I would like to see anything other than 2 x FF, 1 x FG and 1 Labour seats.... As it has been this way for years and years....and a bit less of the status quo would be nice

Well the only way to sort that is to vote that way. I cant see why anyone would vote SF, they make every economist in Ireland throw up. Mary Roche is the only "new" option in my opinion.

Bards

galwayrush wrote:

whatever way you vote next time, please don't inflict clueless Cullen on us again,

Just because you don't like Govt Money going to the S.E ... then yes I will be voting Cullen no.1

Better than all the cluless politicians that we had to put up with coming from the West for years

merlante

Bards wrote:

Just because you don't like Govt Money going to the S.E ... then yes I will be voting Cullen no.1

Better than all the cluless politicians that we had to put up with coming from the West for years

Could you imagine Michael D. in Transport. Half the budget would go to Africa to combat aids or something.

Bards

merlante wrote:

Could you imagine Michael D. in Transport. Half the budget would go to Africa to combat aids or something.

LOL....:D

Star*

I Competely agree with the post by madman about steps that we as waterford people have to take to get this city back on the map.

And to be honest we do

Firstly, our representatvies in the government are something which we need to get right this time. We can't let the same lot get through again. It is not fair. we need a politican in the dail that will stand up and be counted and not afraid of the aftermath. If they need to stand up and shout louder than any other politican then so be it.

When was the last time we had major job investment in waterford. I currently work for a large company in waterford and the prospect of it closing may happen one day - if it does what is there for me out there ? very few places to go. I may end up leaving waterford entirley and not what i want to do. I want to stay here but there are currently no job opportunites with expansion and career development in waterford. With people of my age (30ish) it is seen as a given if you want to have a career that you may need to leave waterford. I don't want that and either do my friends. But get those larger companies in and not just to the larger cities and we will see growth and we will see that university that we need and possibly the radiotherapy unit. All things that I want but i can't see happening until the government remembers that we are here and exist.

I agree that we do need to market waterford - we need to get out there and get an advertisement on the tvs that appeals to all, appeals to families those looking for a quite weekend or a mad weekend away. does it matter if initally it will raise the profile of waterford in a good light.

I agree that we should market our quays areas more, however i can't see the carparks going but we do have the other side of the quay that we should start building on and capitalising on. Utlizing the river more would be fantastic and something which really needs to be done.

as for point 12 in mad mans post - i am completely shocked at what i read in that forum, and may be ridding waterford of those attitudes may help a little. Wow with attitudes like that i think we can see why people in dublin would think of those poor country folk down in waterford - the attitude of which annoys me - but if waterford people are posting that can we blame the dublin people ?


John Deasy did make a show of himself but not apolozing over the smoking debacle but to be honest who did he think he was ? someone above the law, that is not who he is. Laws are made and even if he is a politican he has to abide by them. I think he can build a career for himself but he needs to market himself in a county camp not just in one part of the county.

One question I think we should all ask ourselves is why do we have a mayor and a city council - surely they should be doing something. I can't remember the last time i heard the city council vote for anything worthy - Why can't we cha involved in a major pr drive for the county- get him out there instead of greeting the old ladies which Cha does with considerable charm, but maybe it is time that we used the mayor that we have for pr purposes stand up and be counted.

as for the next election - I can't see myself voting for Cullinane I think if he was an independent he would stand a better chance but as someone said above he really would be a puppet for gerry adams he is his right hand man so i thik that would do us more harm than good.

I have yet to form an opinion on Mary Roche, I think if she can run a good campaign i would definetly vote for her over a ff candidate. FF over the last few years have done nothing for waterford and have forgotten the city entirley, i thik mary roche could stand up and be counted and could do some good for waterford. but lets see what her manifesto says.

All in all - i think the main message is as waterford people we need to shout more - we need to tell our policitans what we want and what we need. and not just sit back and take it like we have done for many years.

the questions as waterford people we need to ask ourselves is ... what has Martin Cullen done for us lately ?

merlante

Just one thing, you mention the 'larger cities'. Limerick and Galway are not much bigger than Waterford. But they do get these jobs. They don't get them because they are larger, they get them because they get them. They make themselves heard and so they seem like much larger places than Waterford.

The establishment of a university in Waterford alone would increase the population straight away, and similarly with the job prospects that come with it. These cities are only growing ahead of Waterford because they have been given an infrastructural advantage. The NUIG site says that 15% of the city's population during term time is students. That may or may not include GMIT students! While WIT no doubt makes a contribution to Waterford's population, its 6,000 full-time students pales in comparison to Galway's 10,000 (NUIG) plus a portion of 4,000 (GMIT) full-time students. Think also of the additional investment, jobs and follow on and peripheral employment that we are missing out on. Think of the construction alone that has gone on in universities around Ireland.

Any of the three cities, Limerick, Galway or Waterford could overtake each other over the next century depending on many factors. The status quo being maintained will ensure that Waterford remains and moves further behind. (Waterford was larger than Galway 20 years ago.)

galwayrush

Bards wrote:

Just because you don't like Govt Money going to the S.E ... then yes I will be voting Cullen no.1

Better than all the cluless politicians that we had to put up with coming from the West for years

i have nothing against money going to the south east, as a minister, he must be one of the worst ever in our history.

galwayrush

merlante wrote:

Galway's 10,000 (NUIG) plus a portion of 4,000 (GMIT) full-time students. .)

NUIG 15,000 full time students
GMIT 6,500 students.
that is an incredible amount of money being spent in the city each year. university status would definately help develop Waterford.
70 percent of those students are from outside the county, and were not included in the census figures because of the time of the year.
the same obviously goes for all other colleges around the country.

merlante

galwayrush wrote:

NUIG 15,000 full time students
GMIT 6,500 students.
that is an incredible amount of money being spent in the city each year. university status would definately help develop Waterford.
70 percent of those students are from outside the county, and were not included in the census figures because of the time of the year.
the same obviously goes for all other colleges around the country.

Okay, 10,000 full-time here, link, with 15,000 quoted on the NUIG wikipedia page, which I assume includes part timers. Saw 4,000 full-time for GMIT: it definitely ain't larger than WIT anyway, which has 6,000 full-time, that I am positive of. WIT has 10,000 when part timers are included.

In any case, Galway has a lot more students than Waterford. At least 12,000 full-time versus Waterford's 6,000. Only 2,500 of which are straight degree students. Plus our students can only do technical degrees.

merlante

galwayrush wrote:

i have nothing against money going to the south east, as a minister, he must be one of the worst ever in our history.

FFS. Why, because he bought some electronic voting machines that were used in an election by Dempsey? Come on! We can all read the media line for ourselves without having to hear that propaganda on here.

What about Michael Martin ripping off the pensioners for a billion? There was as much money spend on guards protecting Bertie's Ex than there was spent on e-voting machines. (Which can still be sold to countries that use them.)

He is far, far from the worst that is there now, not to mind in history. (Dempsey is way worse for a start...)

Trotter

This mistrust and dislike of Cullen is because he isnt homegrown FF. He jumped from the PDs, and the rest of the country thinks he's useless because thats what Bertie wants the media machine to feed to them. Dont think this government arent masters of media manipulation because they certainly are.

How many newspapers printed the fact that there were only 2 submissions for that contract during "monicagate"? None.. because that wouldnt serve the purpose.

PPARS.. Stealing money from pensioners.. the M50 toll bridge.. Need I go on??

Bards

If we don't re-elect Cullen (A sitting minister) what hope have we of getting a senior minister again!!!!... FF will think twice about appointing one again when all we do is give out about it (we complained for years about not having one in the first instance)....

Without Cullen we would be a hell of a lot worse off than we are now. Don't forget he fast tracked the Motorway to Dublin.. this wasn't planned until late 2007/early 2008..When in fact it has already started (Carlow bypass).

Imagine if he became Minister for Education next.. We would have university Status in the morning....

mad man

OK Guys.

Firstly I don't wish to turn this into a personality clash with anyone.As stated by Roanmore I am not blatently electioneering for Cullen FF or anyone else. I brought up the issue of the next election and politics because it will decide on whether Waterford will have a cabinet minister or not. The undisputable fact of the matter is that most of the state investment goes to the constituencies that have cabinet representation. Unfortunately honesty is not a virtue when it comes to this.Otherwise I would say vote for Brian O'Shea and Mary Roche.

However the fact is that that during the rainbow coalition 94-97 state investment in Waterford was absolutely dismal. If the FF/PD coalition loses the next election we may will have a similar government to 94-97. I will give you the following examples.During the period prior and during the rainbow government Waterford people attended and spent more on arts events than any town, city or county in Ireland. Yet in this period 40% of the state budget on Arts was spent in Galway.Why?because Michael D.Higgins (from Galway) was minister for Arts,Heritage and the Gaeltacht. During this period Brendan Howlin as minister for Health created an ambulance centre for the South East largely consolidating ambulance facilities in this centre.Where was it located?In Wexford.Is it a coincidence that it was in hisconstituency.During the same period the Garda Divisional Headquarters was moved to Kilkenny City an area with 50% of population of Waterford and among this population a much lower crime rate. There are many mor examples.

When Cullen became a junior minister the government buildings in the glen were upgraded at a cost of 28million punts.60 million punts was set aside for the North Quays but this ship may now have sailed due to the amount of time it has taken.As minister for the environment for three consecutive years the amount of money allocated for roads in Waterford City has exceeded Galway and Cork and has been approx 40-50% of that allocated to Dublin a city with 10 times the population of Waterford.Investment in the Airport has increased the M9 Motorway has been kept on the agenda.The southern sections are soon starting and the mid section has already started.The Bypass has statred.The government did backtrack somewhat on radiotherapy.Not to mention funding for rfurbishment of the City Walls.

Despite what has been said Cullen has delivered in the Areas he has had a portfolio.I am not electioneering for anyone.I am just stating the bleeding obvious.Do you honestly believe that an alternative government would have done all this? Or if this would have happened without cabinet representation?
As I said previously the media has hyped up Cullens tribulations.They may and probably are wrong?They speculated he would lose his portfolio after the last reshuffle.What happened?He was given Transport which is one of the best portfolios there is.The fact is if Cullen gets the votes for FF(unforunately this may include Wilkinson) and the Government are returened then there is a good chance Cullen can hold his position. He may actually be in a greater position of power due to FFs weakend position.It may be possible that that he could receive the Education portfolio and therfore being in a position to win the University.All Independents can really hope to acheive is some Hot potatoe issue like retaining a hospital and in Waterford that issue is radiotherapy.

I said this would be a bitter pill for some to swallow. Especially if you don't like Cullen or FF.With no offence to Galway Rush or anyone from Galway we wouldn't have to vote for Cullen if we didn't have to fight for what Galway gets on a Silver Platter.I don't expect either that anyone swallow this Hook Line and Sinker,but if anyone can tell me an alternative rather than accuse me of electioneering please do because for the life of me,I can't.

Trotter

My ideal lineup would be Cullen, Roche, Deasy and O'Shea. I think we'd have cabinet representation if FF stay in, and Mary Roche to look after the local agenda. She'd push the others like we realise now they need to be pushed.

Bards

Agree 100% Mad Man... My lineup would be Cullen, Roche, O'shea & Cullinane... SF may hold the balance of power in the next Dail.. FF will go into govt with them if the numbers add up

Trotter

Bards wrote:

SF may hold the balance of power in the next Dail

And the world will officially have gone mad. Gerry Adams... Minister for Defence. :eek:

merlante

Trotter wrote:

And the world will officially have gone mad. Gerry Adams... Minister for Defence. :eek:

The thing is they could actually get him in there to, via the senate.

Trotter

merlante wrote:

The thing is they could actually get him in there to, via the senate.

How dya mean!?

merlante

Trotter wrote:

How dya mean!?

Okay, I don't know what the story is with people from the north getting Irish citizenship -- maybe they can after the good friday agreement, I can't remember...

But... if Gerry couldn't get irish citizenship, he could still, iirc., get appointed to the Irish senate. A maximum of 3 of the 15 cabinet seats, again iirc., can be given to members of the senate, rather than TDs. So in this case Adams could be minister for justice or whatever despite not being an irish citizen or having received any votes in Ireland.

I leave it as an exercise for the reader to investigate all of this.

galwayrush

no offence meant regarding Cullen, maybe we read too much media bull****.
true, michael D Higgins did spend a lot of money here in he west, but that only attracted way too many Crusties.:eek: we have extremely ineffective politicans here at the moment,i think both Cities could do with some fresh blood,

merlante

galwayrush wrote:

no offence meant regarding Cullen, maybe we read too much media bull****.
true, michael D Higgins did spend a lot of money here in he west, but that only attracted way too many Crusties.:eek: we have extremely ineffective politicans here at the moment,i think both Cities could do with some fresh blood,

I don't really believe that. In every country I've ever spent time in the people have considered their politicians to be inept. Ireland is remarkable only in that it has the savviest politicians, running the wealthiest economy, who are nonetheless hated the most. People don't even remember why they hate them. The only thing wrong with Ireland is that maybe people have too much money for their own good... (That and the fact that Waterford gets shafted, but that's another story.)

And yeah, too many people take the media at their word. People are like parrots, forever repeating the same 'factoid' again and again until the media gives the signal for the next topic. Road deaths are being rammed down our throats for the last few years; suicides, which claims twice the number of victims are ignored. The media implanted the total red herring of 'electronic voting' in people's minds, while other, more expensive mistakes remain unnoticed by the sheep-like masses. If only there was a code word that could make people snap out of the trance.

Bards

Exactly... and everyone still believes it was Cullen's idea and Dempsey was blameless, even though all party's voted it a success in the two previous pilot projects.