IRA's organised crime ended: Hain

LeinsterPar

Interested to see people's views on this. took me ages to find the info as the RTE news site has no mention of it at all. Personally Im glad to hear this (and to hear McDowell agreeing) so maybe the naysayers will give up and we can all move on:

http://u.tv/newsroom/indepth.asp?id=75438&pt=n

IRA's organised crime ended: Hain

The IRA is honouring its pledge to shut down all terrorism and crime at an organisational level, the British and Irish Governments have said.
Even though Northern Ireland Secretary Peter Hain accepted that some current Provos are still involved in illegal operations, he insisted that was not a good enough excuse for political parties to refuse to restore devolution at Stormont by the November 24 deadline.

He said: "There probably is still some localised individual criminality by former and maybe existing Provisional IRA members for their own private gain.

"What there is not, is any organised `from the centre` criminality any more.

"To that extent the IRA are delivering on their commitments made last July, not just in respect of shutting down paramilitary activity but also shutting down criminality."

The Rev Ian Paisley`s Democratic Unionists have been demanding more proof that the IRA has abandoned all violence and racketeering before they will agree to go back to a power-sharing executive in Belfast with Sinn Fein.

London and Dublin have warned the political parties that if they fail to revive a coalition government in time then they will take control of how Northern Ireland is run.

Following talks with Irish Government ministers at Hillsborough Castle, County Down, Mr Hain stressed it was unrealistic to expect the Provisionals to deliver a state of absolute perfection in the time available.

But he added: "If you find individual members of the IRA to be engaged in criminality for personal gain that should not be an obstacle to the restoration of the institution on November 24 when their leadership is stopping it happening."

Michael McDowell, the Irish Justice Minister who has been critical of the Republican movement in the past, backed Mr Hain`s assessment today.

Claiming the IRA had brought a halt to both its paramilitarism and crime, he told how leading members of Sinn Fein had called for the police to investigate a recent vodka robbery in the Irish Republic when it was alleged that two members of the Provisional movement were involved.

Mr McDowell said: "I believe that`s the first time remarks of that kind have been made in relation to a matter of that kind."

Asked if he believed the IRA`s war was now over following its declarations and disarmament last summer, he added: "The Irish Government and British Government are working on that assumption, based on the evidence we have."

Nigel Dodds, DUP MP for North Belfast, accused Mr Hain of trying to bluff the community and its political representatives into sharing power again with Sinn Fein.

"It is well known that this Secretary of State will resort to all manner of underhand tactics to put pressure on Unionists to agree to an inclusive executive," he said.

Mr Dodds insisted a recent Northern Ireland Affairs Select Committee report into organised crime contradicted the Government`s claims on IRA activity.

"Repeatedly this Secretary of State has attempted to put the best possible gloss on the behaviour of Sinn Fein/IRA in the desperate hope that unionists will be prepared to tolerate the continuation of a level of terror and criminality in the same way that he is prepared to do," he said.

"The idea that the Secretary of State can dismiss organised crime and explain it away as the work of individual IRA members and not the leadership is completely unacceptable and a massive distortion of the truth.

"This ploy, designed to set the scene to excuse IRA criminality before the autumn deadline, will not work and it is only when all activity has genuinely ceased and been seen to cease will we be able to move forward on a purely democratic basis."

Villain

Umm McDowell must be under pressure from Bertie to make statements like that. I think this statement is being made to isolate the DUP, they have been using excuse after excuse for not agreeing to powersharing with SF and the British Government are obviously trying to put pressure on the DUP to act before the november deadline.

I think the bigger news story up north at the moment is the number of sectarian attacks this summer up by 20% I believe and reports that Unionists have been celebrating the killing of Micky Bo with snngs and other jestures.

All is not well up North despite what the media may report.

flogen

irish1 wrote:

Umm McDowell must be under pressure from Bertie to make statements like that. I think this statement is being made to isolate the DUP, they have been using excuse after excuse for not agreeing to powersharing with SF and the British Government are obviously trying to put pressure on the DUP to act before the november deadline.

I agree; it must have been hard for him to say anything remotely positive about the IRA and by extension Sinn Fein, it's no secret that he hates the party.
It certainly looks like a way to isolate the DUP, there's even Hain's comment of "If you find individual members of the IRA to be engaged in criminality for personal gain that should not be an obstacle to the restoration of the institution on November 24 when their leadership is stopping it happening.", in other words there's no reason for your complaints... I doubt it will work though; the DUP seem to have a siege mentality and would probably refuse to co-operate now even if they were willing to before just so it didn't look like they were forced by anyone.

I think the bigger news story up north at the moment is the number of sectarian attacks this summer up by 20% I believe and reports that Unionists have been celebrating the killing of Micky Bo with snngs and other jestures.

All is not well up North despite what the media may report.

Perhaps violence died down over the years because most people were willing to give politics a chance and it's failed them miserably so far; I'm not so confident that even with a restored assembly that the DUP or SF will do a good job leading their country; they'll continue to try to score political points, appease their voters and suspect each other of everything.

LeinsterPar

violence hasnt really stopped in the north, and as irish1 said, its getting worse, which will at some stage result in a backlash against loyalism. There isnt much being said about it though, which isnt really all that new. If the report was that the IRA were restocking, it'd be all over the place, but since its something people really dont want to hear, then its kept quiet. Or maybe I just cant seem to find any info on it.

i have a feeling McDowell said what he said because he couldnt say otherwise. If its a fact that the IRA have stopped everything they were at (as an organisation) then mcdowell cant really argue with that.

Sand

If its a fact that the IRA have stopped everything they were at (as an organisation) then mcdowell cant really argue with that.

Even Hain didnt say that. From your post.....

Northern Ireland Secretary Peter Hain accepted that some current Provos are still involved in illegal operations

The general line is to simply pretend that SFIRA are only "somewhat" involved in criminality, hence they are "not involved in criminality at all". This is not surprising from a NI secretary who would probably murder every first born child in Ireland without a second thought if he thought it would help get SFIRA into government.

Hain is discredited so what he believes is meaningless. Hes not interested in securing good government for NI. He simply wants a government, and any old one will do. Standards will be lowered until one can be formed by his line of thinking.

His line of "lets put pressure on the DUP" is also stupid and will simply lead to failure. Think about it. By some mircale, the DUP and SFIRA sign some deal. Theres lots of fancy terms and legal jargon on it. They hold the first few assembly meetings. McGuinness and Donaldson or whoever shake hands, smiling. Great front page photo.

Then somebody robs a bank. Provos are involved. Somebody gets murdered in a pub packed with SFIRA political "activists". SFIRA refuse to deal with the PSNI.

The DUP pull out of the powersharing faster than you can say "Political Suicide Note", the deal collapses, bitter recriminations over whose fault it is. Posionous political atmosphere.

Pretending that SFIRA are "just another political party" when theyre very far from any other political party in terms of morality, membership and activity isnt going to work. Actions prove louder than words. A deal, a lasting deal that will stick, will only come when SFIRA are no more involved in criminality and gangsterism than the SDLP. Because the DUP will not give SFIRA even the slightest hint of the benefit of the doubt.

I disagree

Sand wrote:

Even Hain didnt say that. From your post.....



The general line is to simply pretend that SFIRA are only "somewhat" involved in criminality, hence they are "not involved in criminality at all". This is not surprising from a NI secretary who would probably murder every first born child in Ireland without a second thought if he thought it would help get SFIRA into government.

Hain is discredited so what he believes is meaningless. Hes not interested in securing good government for NI. He simply wants a government, and any old one will do. Standards will be lowered until one can be formed by his line of thinking.

His line of "lets put pressure on the DUP" is also stupid and will simply lead to failure. Think about it. By some mircale, the DUP and SFIRA sign some deal. Theres lots of fancy terms and legal jargon on it. They hold the first few assembly meetings. McGuinness and Donaldson or whoever shake hands, smiling. Great front page photo.

Then somebody robs a bank. Provos are involved. Somebody gets murdered in a pub packed with SFIRA political "activists". SFIRA refuse to deal with the PSNI.

The DUP pull out of the powersharing faster than you can say "Political Suicide Note", the deal collapses, bitter recriminations over whose fault it is. Posionous political atmosphere.

Pretending that SFIRA are "just another political party" when theyre very far from any other political party in terms of morality, membership and activity isnt going to work. Actions prove louder than words. A deal, a lasting deal that will stick, will only come when SFIRA are no more involved in criminality and gangsterism than the SDLP. Because the DUP will not give SFIRA even the slightest hint of the benefit of the doubt.

I believe you mean SF (Sinn Féin) not SFIRA. There is no such thing as SFIRA. Sorry to have to break the news to you.


SF has given the DUP the benefit of the doubt regarding the ties between present members of the DUP with Loyalist paramilitaries during the 70s, 80s and 90s.

On a different note, it is great to see that the IRA is an irrelevance and politics can proceed if allowed.

LeinsterPar

He said: "There probably is still some localised individual criminality by former and maybe existing Provisional IRA members for their own private gain.

"What there is not, is any organised `from the centre` criminality any more.

"To that extent the IRA are delivering on their commitments made last July, not just in respect of shutting down paramilitary activity but also shutting down criminality."
......

But he added: "If you find individual members of the IRA to be engaged in criminality for personal gain that should not be an obstacle to the restoration of the institution on November 24 when their leadership is stopping it happening."

what that says to me is that the IRA no longer function. Ex members may well be involved in criminality (smuggling more than likely which goes with most borders - it isnt something the IRA invented) but the organisation itself isnt

Then somebody robs a bank. Provos are involved.

Fair dues to you if you can find the proof that the RUC and Garda havent found. PLus someone better tell the people from the bank that have been arrested. Otherwise you cant say 'Provos were involved' as that is purely unhelpful and misleading.

i can see where the theory that they are driving the DUP into this comes from but I dont agree. I think the IRA indeed have done what they said they would do, now its up to the unionist community to do what it said it would do, and work alongside everyone in looking for peace. that is what we all want here isnt it? or is it better to forgo the peace just to make sure we can all slag off that mysterious 'SF/IRA' outfit that the unionists keep referring to?

LeinsterPar

amazing lack of interest in this.

I wonder if Hain had said the IRA were in fact still heavily involved in criminality and werent moving ahead would there be massives threads about it? I think there would be.

people are (rightly) concerned about a 30 year old murder but blatently ignoring what is currently happening in the north. that doesnt seem democratic to me, nor does it show a willingness to explore both sides of the divide.

Rock Climber

LeinsterPar wrote:

amazing lack of interest in this.

I wonder if Hain had said the IRA were in fact still heavily involved in criminality and werent moving ahead would there be massives threads about it? I think there would be.

Why would you be expecting oodles of posts on this?They're only doing what they should be doing.Theres something else they should be doing also and thats helping the Gardaí with enquiries regarding "ex IRA" people who think they still have the right to finance themselves illegally.

people are (rightly) concerned about a 30 year old murder but blatently ignoring what is currently happening in the north. that doesnt seem democratic to me, nor does it show a willingness to explore both sides of the divide.

The roads are swept with that mind reading statement of opinion...

LeinsterPar

i would expect "oodles of posts " as so called IRA criminality seems to be a hot topic around here. Well it is when people believe they are criminals - once its out that they have indeed done what they have said they will do then daa naa ... silence. not a peep from the usual suspects who ridicule everything a republican says around here. why is that?

The roads are swept with that mind reading statement of opinion...

are they indeed. whatever you mean, I dont know. Im sure if it were republicans doing the killing and maiming right now there'd be lots of accusations flying. I think thats onesided.

LeinsterPar

so he said it then because he wanted to? thats good enough for me.edit - where did that guys post go to? the one who said mcdowell says what he wahts?