Vrt - will anything be done in 2006 budget?

Kersh

Whats the opinions on this.
Will the government do anything about Vrt in the 2006 budget. Or will they let it roll for as long as possible til the EU kick them into touch like they did today with the 21% bin levy etc...

Tipsy Mac

The only way we will ever see an end to VRT will be from similar firm instruction of the EU. I believe the only way this can be achieved is at the next referendum on anything EU related all motorists vote no in protest as we seem to be getting a 3rd World europe where borders are not free for trade in cars.

Alun

A similar thing happened in the Netherlands a few years back when the Dutch government were forced by the EU to remove a similar tax. So what did they do? The very next day they reintroduced virtually the same tax under a new name and the whole process started from scratch. They still have it to this day, it's called BPM, so I wouldn't hold your breath.

Henry Ford III

They'll do nothing.

Why would they? After all it's pretty watertight and bring in € Billions...

p.s. it's illegal but what the hell?

Moanin

The only fair way to get rid of it is to phase it out over a few years.If the Govt drops it straight away then the *rse will fall out of the price of second hands and me for one would suffer.

I'm totally against VRT but what other way will it work to get rid of it!

kluivert

I agree with Henry, they wil do nothing and why should they.

Its going to be a give away budget this year with an election coming up.

VRT will always remain, useless some smart people car read EU law which overwrites Irish law and avoid payign VRT altogether.

Tipsy Mac

Moanin wrote:

The only fair way to get rid of it is to phase it out over a few years.If the Govt drops it straight away then the *rse will fall out of the price of second hands and me for one would suffer.

I'm totally against VRT but what other way will it work to get rid of it!

What difference will it make to you selling your 2nd hand car if it depreciates 20% or more, the car you will be buying afterwards will be 20% or more cheaper in which case you will save money as most people buy a better car then they have. FG use this whenever they are asked to lobby the government on the issue. The only people who would lose out are people retiring from driving and the government, everyone else would gain including safety on the road as newer cars have better safetly features.

Tipsy Mac

kluivert wrote:

VRT will always remain, useless some smart people car read EU law which overwrites Irish law and avoid payign VRT altogether.

Current situation suits SIMI as they set the set the prices that revenue base VRT on 2nd hand cars and thus they then controls prices which people can import cars and so make it less worthwhile as possible.

gyppo

If VRT is ever removed from Ireland, it will only be from pressure from the EU.
Which will leave the government with a shortfall in revenue. So, it will be re-introduced in another guise, eg, some form of emissions tax, or other form of excuse.

green-blood

eventually it'll go and your annual road tax will go up 4 fold.... get over it, we'll still be paying out the same if not more no matter what the EU say

Moanin

Tipsy Mac wrote:

What difference will it make to you selling your 2nd hand car if it depreciates 20% or more, the car you will be buying afterwards will be 20% or more cheaper in which case you will save money as most people buy a better car then they have. FG use this whenever they are asked to lobby the government on the issue. The only people who would lose out are people retiring from driving and the government, everyone else would gain including safety on the road as newer cars have better safetly features.

I wouldn't hope that my car would depreciate 20% in one year €8k Pa on an Audi A4 1.9tdi.Dont think so.

Anan1

Moanin wrote:

I wouldn't hope that my car would depreciate 20% in one year €8k Pa on an Audi A4 1.9tdi.Dont think so.

Most cars will drop at least 20% in the first year. I'd be very surprised if an 05 A4 TDI couldn't be got for 80% of the cost of a new one.

Tipsy Mac

Moanin wrote:

I wouldn't hope that my car would depreciate 20% in one year €8k Pa on an Audi A4 1.9tdi.Dont think so.

So when are you planning to retire from driving and sell the car then?

padraigmyers

Tipsy Mac wrote:

What difference will it make to you selling your 2nd hand car if it depreciates 20% or more, the car you will be buying afterwards will be 20% or more cheaper in which case you will save money as most people buy a better car then they have. FG use this whenever they are asked to lobby the government on the issue. The only people who would lose out are people retiring from driving and the government, everyone else would gain including safety on the road as newer cars have better safetly features.

There is no way it can be eliminated in one go, its will have to be phased out if it is to be got rid of. How about 2nd hand car dealers, they will have a bunch of stock that will suddenly be worth 25-30% less then it was before, probably lead to most of them going out of business, there is no way a government can sanction this.
By the way, I'm in favour of getting rid of VRT, just being realistic.

Ice_Box

They should at least remove VRT from safty options such as ESP, extra air bags and active seats. Why are air bags taxed as a luxury?

ismynametoolong

VRT will be phased out over a 5 year period and replaced
with a CO2 based tax system . Discussions are already taking place within
the relevant depts. Based on Kyoto protocols and Eu direction we must move to a polluter pays principal of cyclical tax collection. Not too sure the Gov will want to try implementing it in this budget 06 as it will mean a massive road tax increase proportional to the loss of VRT revenue but it is coming !!!!

ninty9er

Henry Ford III wrote:

They'll do nothing.

Why would they? After all it's pretty watertight and bring in € Billions...

p.s. it's illegal but what the hell?

Plus there's an SSIA windfall to be had next year.

Also the legality depends on what your view of the EU is. Although we're signed up does the EU have the right to force laws, bad or good, upon us (as they do) just because we make up less than 5% of the population

ninty9er

Tipsy Mac wrote:

What difference will it make to you selling your 2nd hand car if it depreciates 20% or more, the car you will be buying afterwards will be 20% or more cheaper in which case you will save money as most people buy a better car then they have. FG use this whenever they are asked to lobby the government on the issue. The only people who would lose out are people retiring from driving and the government, everyone else would gain including safety on the road as newer cars have better safetly features.

Strange. FG intorduced it AFAIK, eevryone else just realised it was their one good idea for the century

Tipsy Mac

padraigmyers wrote:

There is no way it can be eliminated in one go, its will have to be phased out if it is to be got rid of. How about 2nd hand car dealers, they will have a bunch of stock that will suddenly be worth 25-30% less then it was before, probably lead to most of them going out of business, there is no way a government can sanction this.
By the way, I'm in favour of getting rid of VRT, just being realistic.

Yes fair point, didn't really think of it from a 2nd hand car dealer point of view but then again it should never be there in the first place.

I think once the majority of motorists actually knows that they are paying illegal importation taxes on their cars to the government the sooner it will become an election issue. Why no political party tries to side with the motorist is beyond me, it's a massive group of people where votes can be obtained for simply creating a fairer system.

I find it quite strange the way the government say it's not an importation tax it's a vehicle registration tax to obtain a number plate yet someone from say the UK who has owned a car for 6 months can bring it in free. Why then do they get a free reg and Irish people don't if it's a registration tax?

ismynametoolong

ninty9er wrote:

Plus there's an SSIA windfall to be had next year.

Also the legality depends on what your view of the EU is. Although we're signed up does the EU have the right to force laws, bad or good, upon us (as they do) just because we make up less than 5% of the population

All Eu directives must be transcribed into each member states law within the directives prescribed time or else the Gov faces a daily fine of aprox € 10,000
after all extensions and derogrations have been exhausted .The only directive i have ever seen implemented with great gutso and on time was the VAT on tolls . I wonder why.