Beware Apple updates.

clohamon

Bought a mac mini lately. There was over 450MB of dowloads reguired to get the software/firmware up to date. One of them was 183 MB. By my reckoning that's about €120 in 'pay as you go' dial up costs - less if you're on premium. Worse - the update downloader doesn't seem to have a RESUME, so if there's a disconnection you start again from scratch.

I asked Customer Service to send the downloads to me on a disc as I was in dial-up land. They said 'find a friend with broadband'

Pity, its a great machine.

daveyjoe

Yeah, it sucks. I can't offer you any advice other than what Customer Service gave you (find a friend or a wireless hotspot).

The important downloads are the incremental updates (10.4.7) and any firmware/SMB updates. For the most part, you can leave the security updates and Quicktime/iTunes updates unless you need them for some reason.

The Apple updates do tend to be a bit hefty, which makes them impossible on dial-up.

Urban Weigl

The only updates you really need are security updates (Apple is on their 3rd security update for this year, and the last one was 12MB for Power and 23MB for Intel).

All the other updates mainly add more features. For example, there were updates for iPhoto and iWeb, which added more templates, graphics and so on, that came in at over 100MB, because of the new content/templates. You don't however need them to run your computer securely. It's nice to have the extra templates, though...

What it goes go to show is that you really need broadband to effectively use a computer nowadays, at least if you want to do things on the internet. Before flat rate dialup and broadband became widely available, Apple used to distribute all of their updates on magazine cover CD's. Maybe they should resume this program for Ireland only!

By the way, technically you could get a friend with broadband to download the latest combo update from http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/ for you and burn it to CD. There is no reason you actually need to use the Software Update application to update your system, you can just as well get the updates by some other means and run them.

eircomtribunal

clohamon wrote:

Pity, its a great machine.

You are aware that with the Mac operating system you are in no security danger, unlike with the Windows OS? I am not recommending complacency, but you can take all the time you need to get someone get you the update on a CD.
P.

formatman

alots of the updates cna be downloaded from the apple site in offline mode and burned to a cd , you can do this in any Internet cafe , doesn't have to be on an apple you download them etc

Did you get the updates ?

If you still need them , send some euros via paypal and I'll put them on a cd for you

zuma

Those 450MB of downloads would take roughly 75minutes on the slowest DSL of 1Mbit/s.

Mr Tony O'Reilly (according to Damien ) believes we are perfectly happy with "what we call narrowband" with 450,000 subscribers.

I really dont know what your complaing about....only messing!!!

clohamon

formatman wrote:

alots of the updates cna be downloaded from the apple site in offline mode and burned to a cd , you can do this in any Internet cafe , doesn't have to be on an apple you download them etc

Did you get the updates ?

If you still need them , send some euros via paypal and I'll put them on a cd for you

Yes, thanks. One night in Bewleys, Leopardstown. Free WiFi/Broadband LAN.

Cryos

eircomtribunal wrote:

You are aware that with the Mac operating system you are in no security danger, unlike with the Windows OS? I am not recommending complacency, but you can take all the time you need to get someone get you the update on a CD.
P.

You know that is a big lie ?

The day after apple ran those new cronic mac ads someone had already made one ?

Besides isnt this the wrong forum for this ?

eircomtribunal

Blitz wrote:

Besides isnt this the wrong forum for this ?

I think it is quite relevant under the aspect of highlighting the necessity of broadband to keep a computer running.
About the Apple safety issue (which, in the way you are posting about, is indeed stuff for another forum): get informed.(nobody "made one").

P.

watty

Even the PC, if you have a good separate Firewall (not SW on the PC) and don't open executable attachments and don't use old versions of outlook and few othe r thinks of similar ilk 99.9% of MS security vunribilities don't apply. Most exploits rely on sloppy install and careless users.

And yes never mind Windows, Linux is impossible now without broadband unless you want a box in the corner doing one function. I can install a usuable Windows from CDs for a PC not connected at all or only via good Firewall etc, but Currently Linix seems to need 100s of MB of download to do anything usefull.

(Dons asbestos cloak and runs for hills...)

Solair

I think perhaps the most telling sign about the Irish situation is that Apple's laptops no longer ship with a built in modem! It's assumed that you have broadband access thesedays.

If you want a modem, you have to click on something like www.apple.com/thirdworldandredneckstore and enter your credit card details they'll ship you a USB dongle modem.

The legacy telecommunications system adaptor (aka USB Modem) :

Cryos

eircomtribunal wrote:

I think it is quite relevant under the aspect of highlighting the necessity of broadband to keep a computer running.
About the Apple safety issue (which, in the way you are posting about, is indeed stuff for another forum): get informed.(nobody "made one").

P.

This should be in the mac forum, EircomTribunal i work with a large multinational who works strongly with Symantec; It is you sir who need to get informed or email symantec yourself.

I wont start an argument, i work heavily with IT Security and Prevention so i am in the know.

If you wanted to compair the amount of updates for each os you would be in no doubt that you would most definatly need a broadband connection.

bk

watty wrote:

I can install a usuable Windows from CDs for a PC not connected at all or only via good Firewall etc, but Currently Linix seems to need 100s of MB of download to do anything usefull.

Not really, try Knoppix for a basic desktop that runs straight off the CD or try Suse which comes with nearly every piece of Linux software on it's DVD. Of course you are right, it is a good idea to update these over the web, but if you aren't connecting to the web, you can certainly install a full, operational system without updates.

damien

Dear OS Fanboys,
This is not the forum, take it somewhere else. The original post is relevant however since it's not only Macs who have these issues. It must suck donkeys to be on dialup with Windows XP. AV updates, security patches ans servicepacks now and then. Dialup is dangerous as well as being expensive and slow.

damien

zuma wrote:

Mr Tony O'Reilly (according to Damien )

I couldn't resist saying it on 2fm. :)That's his name in Ireland. It's Sir Tony in the UK when he carries his UK Passport.

eircomtribunal

damien.m wrote:

AV updates, security patches ans servicepacks now and then. Dialup is dangerous as well as being expensive and slow.

And now look at the figures from the latest ComReg Quarterly propaganda sheet to see to what extent incumbent and regulator are endangering Irish computer users:
There are currently 603 000 Narrowband users in Ireland, nearly twice the number of broadband users. We can assume that most of them will be vulnerable to security and other issues (to a varying degree – to leave the OS vulnerability issue at that <but my advice to the initial poster, that with the Mac OS he stands virtually no security risk if he does not update, remains>), as they will inevitably have difficulties keeping their operating system up to date.

Now have a look why this is so: Let the fixed line revenue figures from the different Internet access modes speak for themselves:

From the above ComReg data my calculations say that one narrowband customer (=dial-up customer) brings in a revenue of € 44 per month!
P.

Altreab

damien.m wrote:

I couldn't resist saying it on 2fm. :)That's his name in Ireland. It's Sir Tony in the UK when he carries his UK Passport.

Unless you work in an "Independent" newspaper where you have to call him sir in person and in articles An actual memo was circulated to confirm the "sir Anthony" for all articles

JohnC.

damien.m wrote:

Dear OS Fanboys,
This is not the forum, take it somewhere else. The original post is relevant however since it's not only Macs who have these issues. It must suck donkeys to be on dialup with Windows XP. AV updates, security patches ans servicepacks now and then. Dialup is dangerous as well as being expensive and slow.

I was using XP with dialup until recently. To be honest, I didn't find the updates that bad. They were mostly small. The only one which was a pain was ".net 2.0 framework" or something like that, which was large enough to wait for a weekend to leave the connection open long enough to download it.

The only real problem was the Service Pack, but that came packaged with practically every PC magazine or you could order it from MS on a CD. I've ended up with 3 or 4 copies.

On my list of things where broadband has made a very welcome difference, the updates wouldn't be that high.

cgarvey

For clarification, I've deleted trolls from XJ111, and responses to them. Needless to say, XJ111 is banned.

lucernarian

Actually the windows and antivirus updates have only become possible since I got broadband. Actually that has been the main usage of downloading recently, for me.

Hannibal_12

watty wrote:

Even the PC, if you have a good separate Firewall (not SW on the PC) and don't open executable attachments and don't use old versions of outlook and few othe r thinks of similar ilk 99.9% of MS security vunribilities don't apply. Most exploits rely on sloppy install and careless users.

And yes never mind Windows, Linux is impossible now without broadband unless you want a box in the corner doing one function. I can install a usuable Windows from CDs for a PC not connected at all or only via good Firewall etc, but Currently Linix seems to need 100s of MB of download to do anything usefull.

(Dons asbestos cloak and runs for hills...)

No you're quite right, no need for asbestos suit. I have to laugh at the elitist apple owners that think they're nigh on invulnerable with their oh so stylish white machines while pitying us poor decrepit PC owners.
As you say a good firewall, antivirus scanner and perhaps antispyware application along with automatic updates for windows and aforementioned applications and 99% should be ok.
Every computer I install now I make sure has these and there is nary a problem to be found. As for apple's security, well yes it probably is more secure than windows but then it doesnt have to cater for such a myriad of different hardware/software vendors. When they have much larger marketshare it will be interesting to note if they remain so secure when a legion of hackers and virus writers start to target them.

Urban Weigl

Hannibal_12 wrote:

I have to laugh at the elitist apple owners that think they're nigh on invulnerable with their oh so stylish white machines while pitying us poor decrepit PC owners.

It is definitely possible to secure Windows, however I can tell you from personal experience that most Windows users don't know how. I do have high hopes that Vista will fix Windows security for the average user.

As far as Mac OS X security, I find it telling that since Mac OS X was released 6 years ago, nobody has managed to write a virus for it yet (even Symantec admits this), nor is there any spyware for it. As far as "security through obscurity", there is an educational article on The Register by the former security chief of Network Solutions here:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/12/16/windowsstyle_security_hell_stalks_mac/

But let's get back on topic: any modern OS, whether it's for security updates or service packs/patches, Virus software updates or whatever, you really need broadband to download all of it. Yes, it can be done on dialup, but it's a pain. That's what this thread is really about, so please let's get back on topic.

Finally, no matter what OS you use, do not get complacent: always be sure to install security updates.

cgarvey

Enough.