Protests against Israel?

Archeron

http://epetitions.net/julywar/index.php

Just to post this online petition up in case anyone hasnt seen it. This is receiving signatures from all over the world, including Ireland.

philologos

To answer the OP

Irish Palestine Solidarity Campaign wrote:

After the weekend of successful demonstrations throughout the country the IPSC calls on people to take to the streets again tomorrow to commemorate those who were massacred by Israel in Qana.

In Dublin a spontaneous candlelight vigil has been called, by the Irish-Lebanese and Palestinian communities - it will be held from 6.00pm outside the Israeli Embassy

Trocaire has already called for a demonstration in front of the US Embassy at 6.00pm

Please circulate widely, to all lists, to friends and family.

Take to the streets to express outrage at Israeli War Crimes.

thanks,

IPSC

you were too late it was yesterday to answer the OP

HelterSkelter

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/tommcgurk/1098448.html

Philip Boucher Hayes gave details of the Lebanese Orphan appeal. Donations can be arranged through the Bank Of Ireland. The details are as follows:
Main Branch: Bank Of Ireland Baggot Street Dublin
Sort Code: 90-14-90
Account Number: 44999522

Benedict XVI

InFront wrote:

If Hezbollah was a state who exported goods and services, i would boycott them too. But they are not so I cant do anything about that.

Hezbollah is a part of the Lebanon governmnet, so why no boycott goods from Lebanon.

The Saint

Benedict XVI wrote:

Hezbollah is a part of the Lebanon governmnet, so why no boycott goods from Lebanon.

They have two seats in a 25 member government so it would be quite a stretch of the imagination to imply that the Lebanese government represents Hizbollah or vice-versa. The Lebanese army (the militaty force under government control) is not taking part in the military action. I would by all means boycott all produce produced by Hizbollah if that were possible.

Red Alert

Don't use superscan in superquinn - the system is made in Israel.

Watch out for tomatoes and grapefruit.

InFront

Benedict XVI wrote:

Hezbollah is a part of the Lebanon governmnet, so why no boycott goods from Lebanon.

AFAIR Hezbollah makes up around 10% of parliament. If you look at the Lebanese parliamentary system you will understand that they are in no danger of becoming seriously influential under that system.
Nobody boycotts Ireland because one of its politcial parties is the politicial wing of the IRA, Lebanon is the same. Hezbollah just isnt representative enough.

The Saint

InFront wrote:

AFAIR Hezbollah makes up around 10% of parliament. If you look at the Lebanese parliamentary system you will understand that they are in no danger of becoming seriously influential under that system.
Nobody boycotts Ireland because one of its politcial parties is the politicial wing of the IRA, Lebanon is the same. Hezbollah just isnt representative enough.

They have 14 members in a 128 seat parliament with 2 seats in a 25 member government.

Hobbes

Benedict XVI wrote:

Hezbollah is a part of the Lebanon governmnet, so why no boycott goods from Lebanon.

Don't worry Israel has destroyed thier ports and airports as well as over 150 businesses. You won't need to worry about Lebanon products for a while.

The Saint wrote:

They have 14 members in a 128 seat parliament with 2 seats in a 25 member government.

Thats 10% and 8%.

Red Alert

checked the EAN leader: it's 729 is the code for israel.

Mel Gibson

Not a happy camper about the whole thing ...GRRRRRRRR !!! ;-(

jimmycrackcorm

To be brutally fair, whilest I don't agree with what Israel are doing, the fact is they are defending from attack. The reality is that if hezbollah weren't lobbing hundreds of rockets in then the Israelis wouldn't be in Lebanon.

Shouldn't the "don't buy jaffa oranges" protests be directed at Hezbollah instead?

oscarBravo

jimmycrackcorn, there's a 53-page thread on this very board arguing to and fro about whether Israel or Hezbollah are the good guys in this conflict. Leaving aside my personal opinion that there are no good guys in it, this thread is (for better or worse) about protests against Israel.

The Saint

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

To be brutally fair, whilest I don't agree with what Israel are doing, the fact is they are defending from attack. The reality is that if hezbollah weren't lobbing hundreds of rockets in then the Israelis wouldn't be in Lebanon.

Shouldn't the "don't buy jaffa oranges" protests be directed at Hezbollah instead?

Actually the chronology of it is more like:
Hizbollah kidnaps and kills Israeli soldiers.
Israel starts bombing Beirut and south Lebanon.
Hizbollah say stop or they'll start lobbing rockets at Israel.
Israel says piss off.
Hizbollah starts lobbing rockets at Israel.
Hizbollah calls for ceasefire.
Israel says piss off.

We've dealt with the boycotting Hizbollah thing already.

Akrasia

The Saint wrote:

Actually the chronology of it is more like:
Hizbollah kidnaps and kills Israeli soldiers.
Israel starts bombing Beirut and south Lebanon.
Hizbollah say stop or they'll start lobbing rockets at Israel.
Israel says piss off.
Hizbollah starts lobbing rockets at Israel.
Hizbollah calls for ceasefire.
Israel says piss off.

We've dealt with the boycotting Hizbollah thing already.

Actually, the chronology is more like this:
May 26, 2006 a car bombing in Lebanon kills a senior official of Islamic Jihad, a Palestinian group allied with Hezbollah. Israel's culpability was taken as a given. Hezbollah and Israel begin exchanging rockets and air strikes. Gen. Udi Adam, the commander of Israel's northern forces, boasted that "our response was the harshest and most severe since the withdrawal" of Israeli troops from Lebanon in 2000. And why not, you are looking for a war.

June 9, Israel shells a beach in Beit Lahiya killing eight civilians and injuring 32. Then on June 13, Israeli aircraft fired missiles at a van in an attempted assassination. This time nine innocent Palestinians are killed. June 20, Israeli aircraft fired a missile at a car in an attempted assassination. The missile misses, instead killing three Palestinian children and wounded 15. June 24 Israel makes a raid, capturing two Palestinians that it said were members of Hamas. In retaliation, on June 25, an Israeli soldier is seized by Hamas.

July 12, Palestinian Hezbollah fighters launched an "unprovoked" raid into Israel and capture two Israeli soldiers. They demand a prisoner exchange. They get a ****load of bombs instead.

Morlar

The Saint wrote:

Actually the chronology of it is more like:
Hizbollah kidnaps and kills Israeli soldiers.
Israel starts bombing Beirut and south Lebanon.
Hizbollah say stop or they'll start lobbing rockets at Israel.
Israel says piss off.
Hizbollah starts lobbing rockets at Israel.
Hizbollah calls for ceasefire.
Israel says piss off.

We've dealt with the boycotting Hizbollah thing already.

Thats one version - here is another :

http://www.counterpunch.org/lin07252006.html

written by :

Sharat G. Lin writes on global political economy, India, and the Middle East. He lived in Beirut during the Lebanese civil war, and spent time in Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank. Captured by a Palestinian militia in 1973, he has first-hand experience of their internal workings.

BarneyMac

Yeah good point above....or you could go right back to the late 40's and say that Hamas and Hizbollah never even existed until Israel moved in and fvcked all the Palestinians out of their homes and grabbed their land...argument is endless i suppose

The Saint

I was just giving the very basic gist, primarily to point out who started firing rockets. Didn't mean it to be accurate.

The_Conductor

BarneyMac wrote:

Yeah good point above....or you could go right back to the late 40's and say that Hamas and Hizbollah never even existed until Israel moved in and fvcked all the Palestinians out of their homes and grabbed their land...argument is endless i suppose

Yes, it was the British Protectorate of Palestine. The Brits moved out after a number of bomb attacks and shootings by Israelis........ Sooooo- does this mean that the Israeli state was founded on terrorism?

Personally, I think that the Israeli terrorists are going to have to accept that they are not going to destroy the Hizbollah terrorists through brute military force- that the only people suffering are the civilians (and occasional foreigners and peacekeepers) on both sides.

clown bag

Sry for taking so long to get back to this, haven't really been online much for a while.

clown bag wrote:

That’s exactly my point Klaz. The majority of Israelis do think their military is justified in what its doing because they reckon Hezbollah attack indiscriminately so why shouldn't they. It would be only fair to assume that the people of Lebanon who are now on the receiving end will increase their support for anyone willing to fight back, even if that means supporting Hezbollah.

And I'm not diagreeing with you about this. Its a circle, which both sides firing indiscriminately. And as a result of it, more support is thrown to the fighters involved. What I was talking about was:


"the only difference bwteen the two is that Israel has killed more people. They both kill civilians. So why isn't there more outrage about that?"

Why do people feel the need to protest about Israel without acknowledging that the only reason they're protesting is because Israel has killed more people, than Hezbollah. If Hezbollah were more successful in their attacks, would people be marching against them?

I'm not saying I personally support any group that bombs indiscriminately, I'm saying innocent victims of indiscriminate bombings can harden their attitude and support the same tactics when used by their own side. It might not be the right course of action but it is one that many feel obliged to do out of desperation and also revenge. I don't justify the IDF or Hezbollah tactics, I'm saying their victims are likely to support each of them getting a taste of their own medicine.

And I'm not questioning the tactics being used. Thats another thread entirely. Thats another issue entirely.

I'm only questioning the stance of these people that wish to protest about Israel. By only protesting about Israel, aren't these people actually supporting Hezbollah by default?

The attitude of a lot of people caught up in the fighting will be, an eye for an eye........an indiscriminate bombing for an indiscriminate bombing

And it will go on and on and on. Before the bombing, it was some issue in the deep past. Or some religious slight. When people want to fight, they'll find a reason.

Mad Finn

InFront wrote:

Does anybody know if there are any other goods that Israel exports to ireland? Thank you to the earlier poster who mentioned one:)

Oranges
Lemons
Herbs (Basil and coriander in little wilting plastic packages)
Uzi submachine guns (for our Gardai)
Firewall softare (Checkpoint--the firewall of choice for many web sites
Chips (who really knows whether their PC's microprocessor was made in Ireland or Israel? Who cares? Who would be able to find out even if they did care?)
Mud (from their kibbutz --look it up on Wikipedia if you're too young to have worked on one--by the Dead Sea which digs up salty mud and sells it as a beauty product!!)

HelterSkelter

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

To be brutally fair, whilest I don't agree with what Israel are doing, the fact is they are defending from attack. The reality is that if hezbollah weren't lobbing hundreds of rockets in then the Israelis wouldn't be in Lebanon.

Shouldn't the "don't buy jaffa oranges" protests be directed at Hezbollah instead?

Jimmy, Hezbollah are not a state. That's like saying people shouldn't buy IRA/UVF products!

The_Conductor

HelterSkelter wrote:

Jimmy, Hezbollah are not a state. That's like saying people shouldn't buy IRA/UVF products!

Off topic, but a funny little tale nonetheless.
My little brother came to me in confusion a few years back while we at the Gaeltacht and said he never knew the IRA were into selling products to raise funds....... I didn't really think much of it- but asked him later what he meant. The bean an ti apparently had written out a shopping list for him to collect with "MADE IRA" cake on it...... I often have a laugh about those wonderful IRA bakers...... Lol.....

Jimmy, Hezbollah are not a state. That's like saying people shouldn't buy IRA/UVF products!

Perhaps bycott Syria in the hopes that they'll stop supporting them>? In the end you're boycotting the actions of the IDF, which Israel supports. You could do the same to the very countries that support Hezbollah. Even if thats a stretch for ye guys, compare it to the calls to boycott the US over their support of Israel...

Regardless, boycotts even if they work, are like sanctions. They're not going to hurt the military, since the government will raise taxes or reallocate funds to support them, because they're needed (kinda different to a country like Ireland). All you're doing by boycotting is hitting firstly the people that import Israeli goods into ireland, the people that haul the goods, the people export the goods, and the people that produce the goods. I wonder how many "innocents" are affected by a successful boycott? :rolleyes:

HelterSkelter

Deleted User wrote:

Regardless, boycotts even if they work, are like sanctions. They're not going to hurt the military, since the government will raise taxes or reallocate funds to support them, since they're needed. All you're soing by boycotting is hitting firstly the people that import Israeli goods into ireland, the people that haul the goods, the people export the goods, and the people that produce the goods. I wonder how many "innocents" are affected by a successful boycott? :rolleyes:

Hmm, I don't agree with you there. A successful boycott will hurt the economy of the country. If the citizens of the country are feeling the effects of the boycott (exports down) hopefully they will put pressure on the govenment to change their policies.

Or use more aggressive tactics to bring the conflict to a close? The Israeli people are, for the most part, already behind their government on this. If they feel pinched economically, they may just push for far harsher measures to get the war part finished (which would in turn create more civilian deaths, due to worse weapons being used).

Then they could just go back to their usual existance of having hostile neighbours and random attacks, and people abroad would forget (or get bored), and their products get bought again.

I assume you don't feel that applying the same measures to countries that support Hezbollah would have the same chance of succeeding as just targeting Israel?

HelterSkelter

Deleted User wrote:

Or use more aggressive tactics to bring the conflict to a close? The Israeli people are, for the most part, already behind their government on this. If they feel pinched economically, they may just push for far harsher measures to get the war part finished (which would in turn create more civilian deaths, due to worse weapons being used).

Then they could just go back to their usual existance of having hostile neighbours and random attacks, and people abroad would forget (or get bored), and their products get bought again.

I assume you don't feel that applying the same measures to countries that support Hezbollah would have the same chance of succeeding as just targeting Israel?

This thread is to imform people (who think Israel are in the wrong) how they can protest against Israel. There is another thread about the politics behind the situation, you can go over there if you want to debate who is right and who is wrong. If you want to boycott products of countries that support Hezbollah then why don't you start a similar thread?

If you want to boycott products of countries that support Hezbollah then why don't you start a similar thread?

because people seem to believe they're protesting against civilian deaths. If you're going to protest, at least be honest about it and admit that you're protesting against civilian deaths just by Israel.

If people really cared about the deaths of civilians they'd be protesting against all the parties involved. The same goes for the boycotting. All you're doing by targeting one of the combatants is to give unvoiced approval to the other (and a tactical advantage if their economy actually is affected).

I find it curious that so few people are willing to do anything apart from just acknowledging Hezbollah involvement in all this (where they acknowledge Hezbollah and then go back to talking about Israel), whereas you all feel the need to boycott or march against Israel. Why is it that you can't protest against Hezbollah's actions aswell? At least then, I could believe you actually cared about the deaths, and not just for the chance to protest for the sake of it.

I'm not pretending that I'm going to protest or boycott anybody involved in this conflict. But if you are going to commit yourself to such a course, wouldn't it make more sense to be balanced in your criticism.....

Húrin

Bookee wrote:

Morlar wrote:

But I don't think Ireland gets a HUGE Amount of "stuff" from them - US Boycott would be the way to go..... ! But, honestly, I believe that would be too difficult!

Hardly. Not that much stuff is actually made in America.

What would really be difficult is boycotting China. That's a pity, because if any government deserves a boycott, it's China.

InFront

Deleted User wrote:

because people seem to believe they're protesting against civilian deaths. If you're going to protest, at least be honest about it and admit that you're protesting against civilian deaths just by Israel.

If people really cared about the deaths of civilians they'd be protesting against all the parties involved.

Thats a very unfair and presumtuous statement, it makes no sense. Personally, I choose to boycott Israel because I consider there to be essentially only two parties involved in the conflict with the power to end it - Israel and Hezbollah. Hezbollah cannot be boycotted.

Nobody, I presume, would deny that there are links from Hezbollah to Iran and Syria. Noboody can put a value on the extent of the financial support coming from these places (well, the people who brought us the WMD Saga claim they can:rolleyes: , they know everything, after all)
You mention Syria. Nobody would claim that Syria can stop Hezbollah, nor can any other country who supports them. They do not merely rely on state sponsorship.
Syrian industry has no input into governement policy. The people of Syria cannot change their government. The Syrian government cannot stop Hezbollah. Nobody knows what Syria are even supplying. (the same goes for Iran). Then what effect could a boycott have on Syrian people? Antagonise them? That is all.

There are two groups who can stop this war: the Israelis and Hezbollah. Hezbollah cannot be pressurised by a boycott, The Israeli's can.
Boycotting some watered down belligerent back along the line is not going to make progress. In that case, you might as well be boycotting the USUK. I dont see you taking that line.

If you want to boycott Syria or Iran that's fine. If you want to start a thread on the best way of boycotting them, that's your right. But we have the right to think that is not an effective choice to take. It wont achieve anything except misfortune for an innocent people who take no part in this conflict.