Website for M50 upgrade project - M50.ie

darkman2

mysterious wrote:

Erm. it still wouldn't.

Edit: go look at the redicolous arrangements again, M50 third tier flyover cannot access the luas park and ride.

But the considerone free flow option would. Fianna fail are hiding the extra money that is why the crappy option went ahead. full stop.

The arrangements are not 'rediculous'. You have to remember that just because an image shows a potential alternative dosnt mean that setup is viable in reality. I too would prefer the other setup but this is adequate I think:

mysterious

darkman2 wrote:

The arrangements are not 'rediculous'. You have to remember that just because an image shows a potential alternative dosnt mean that setup is viable in reality. I too would prefer the other setup but this is adequate I think:

It's CHEAPER. That's why. Can you tell me how many luas crossing there is on this picture? M50 from Tallaght onto the redcow meets unessesary lights if one wants to go to the R110 or Naas..
R110 to M50 NB: If one wants to go M50 at this section is stopped with lights, even the free flow slip from R110 towards Tallaght. The traffic lights at the Redcow in will be eliminated if the considered option went ahead. Btw I cannot see the Redcow alternate option being much more expensive than the N4 design. I'm serious on this topic, as when it's done it will be even more complicated in 10 years time to fix or rearrange, unless you were to knock the whole interchange and start again. What is with it in this country when it comes to planners. They come up with a plan and Plan A which is perfect, though they opt for plan B instead, why?

Isolate this point to make it clear. M50 soutbound from Lucan etc will have no access to the luas or outside lanes till past Monastery road junction. The considered option has this access. My question is why could they have not just went ahead with, it's safer, more efficent and more accessible.. It wouldn't cost much more, if someone would realise that the planners will have to come back to this junction and sort out the "mistakes"

darkman2

mysterious wrote:

It's CHEAPER. that's why. can you tell me how many luas crossing there is? M50 from Tallaght meets unessesary lights if one wants to go to the R110. M50 NB : if one wants to go to naas is stopped also. R110 to M50 NB: If one wants to go M50 at this section is stopped with lights, even the free flow slip from R110 towards talllaggt.

Isolate this point to make it clear. M50 soutbound from Lucan etc will have no access to the luas or outside lanes till past Monastery road junction. The considered option has this access. My question is why could they have not just went ahead with, it's safer, more efficent and more accessible.. It wouldn't cost much more, if someone would realise that the planners will have to come back to this junction and sort out the "mistakes"

Its simply because of the Luas. The Luas should not be crossing any slips on the junction as it presently is or at all. Blame the moron who put it on a motorway slip in the first place. It should have been raised. I think now they realise that moving the tracks at this stage would leave trams out of service for months. Its down to the idiot who made that decision and in my view whoever it was should be hung by the b*lls.:mad:

mysterious

darkman2 wrote:

Its simply because of the Luas. The Luas should not be crossing any slips on the junction as it presently is or at all. Blame the moron who put it on a motorway slip in the first place. It should have been raised. I think now they realise that moving the tracks at this stage would leave trams out of service for months. Its down to the idiot who made that decision and in my view whoever it was should be hung by the b*lls.:mad:

Pretty much what I was saying all along. Now even with upgrade it still going to be a prob..

MICKEYG

I like the new design. They could minimize the closure of the LUAS if they did the tie ins at both ends of the new bridge at the very end (maybe during the summer). If the depot was on the town side of the red cow they could run the trams to and from there for the duration. Unfortunately with the depot on the Tallaght side they would have to close the whole line.

My favourite example of bad design is the roundabout over the M1 at the airport. When leaving the airport and you get to the roundabout you hit lights. The only reason for these lights is to deal with people heading south on the M1 who want to do a u-turn. Crazy!!!!!!

By spending a little bit more money they could have separated the Airport to M1 south traffic from the M1 south to Airport traffic and made the whole junction free flow. The u-turners could do their u-turn at the airport roundabout on the old N1. That would have made too much sense though and would have involved the planners looking at what other countries did instead of reinventing things which they like to do.

Speaking of reinventing, those new gantry signs annoy me no end. As mentioned earlier the M50 upgrade will be perfect for them as is the M11/M50 junction north and south (apart from the doubling up of wording!!!!) but everywhere else is crazy (new N7 comes to mind). Why do we let the NRA try out new stuff when proven methods work perfectly elsewhere. Are they trying to justify their salaries?

murphaph

This proposal is class, millions better than the stuff we've seen in the EIS. The apparently pointless loopback from R110 westbound to R110 eastbound could be quite intentional, to preserve the existing ability to access properties on the northern carriageway of the R110 when heading westbound from the junction with the Nangor Road. If you didn't have this loopback then traffic bound for Harris/Coca Cola and some others or indeed traffic headed from the Red Cow Hotel etc. to the city centre would have to travel on to Newlands Cross and U-turn. Of course, maybe they know something about the future layout of the Newlands GSJ and it won't be possible to perform that particular manouvre when it's upgraded, forcing a trip as far as the ORR interchange!

Just a thought. Another thought is that the apparent loop isn't a loop at all and just merges with the N7 westbound. The reason it might do that is to provide access to the interchange from the likes of FIAT.

All inall, I love this solution. Luas completely elevated and routed sensibly. I wonder is this a runner or what?

mysterious

murphaph wrote:

This proposal is class, millions better than the stuff we've seen in the EIS. The apparently pointless loopback from R110 westbound to R110 eastbound could be quite intentional, to preserve the existing ability to access properties on the northern carriageway of the R110 when heading westbound from the junction with the Nangor Road. If you didn't have this loopback then traffic bound for Harris/Coca Cola and some others or indeed traffic headed from the Red Cow Hotel etc. to the city centre would have to travel on to Newlands Cross and U-turn. Of course, maybe they know something about the future layout of the Newlands GSJ and it won't be possible to perform that particular manouvre when it's upgraded, forcing a trip as far as the ORR interchange!

Just a thought. Another thought is that the apparent loop isn't a loop at all and just merges with the N7 westbound. The reason it might do that is to provide access to the interchange from the likes of FIAT.

All inall, I love this solution. Luas completely elevated and routed sensibly. I wonder is this a runner or what?

Yep I'd say your right. also,
the right and left turn just before Fiat too, just to mention. The Eis salution to this section here just before the luas and Fiat, is traffic lights:rolleyes:
The third tier on the existing is too put of place and pointless compared to the proposed where it just glide under the R110 almost exactly on the path of the existing Redcow roundabout so little disruption would occur there I would imagine. We must not forget even with the cauios of the proposed free flow type going ahead with longer disruptions, i.e luas could be temporaily closed etc, but all in all the it will saves millions of hours longterm due to the absense of A. T lights, B. conflicting traffic and C and more safety for both N7 and luas travellers. I serioulsy do hope this is the plan.

Chris_533976

It does look much better than the one Id seen before. I found the page quite easily.

On the site as it stands, there are these pages.

http://www.m50.ie/pages/n4.htm

Clicking "Proposed layout" gives

http://www.m50.ie/pages/n4-after.htm


Going to the N7 interchanges gives ->

http://www.m50.ie/pages/n7.htm

But theres no option to click 'View proposed layout"

So I just edited the n4 url to give

http://www.m50.ie/pages/n7-after.htm

And thats how I did it. So it matches up with the rest of the website.


Dont kill me if its all a bunch of rubbish though

mysterious

Still don't see as to why this would be scrapped for the EIS one? christ what country are we living in. Is it a country awash with money?:rolleyes:

darkman2

MICKEYG wrote:

I like the new design. They could minimize the closure of the LUAS if they did the tie ins at both ends of the new bridge at the very end (maybe during the summer). If the depot was on the town side of the red cow they could run the trams to and from there for the duration. Unfortunately with the depot on the Tallaght side they would have to close the whole line.

My favourite example of bad design is the roundabout over the M1 at the airport. When leaving the airport and you get to the roundabout you hit lights. The only reason for these lights is to deal with people heading south on the M1 who want to do a u-turn. Crazy!!!!!!

By spending a little bit more money they could have separated the Airport to M1 south traffic from the M1 south to Airport traffic and made the whole junction free flow. The u-turners could do their u-turn at the airport roundabout on the old N1. That would have made too much sense though and would have involved the planners looking at what other countries did instead of reinventing things which they like to do.

Speaking of reinventing, those new gantry signs annoy me no end. As mentioned earlier the M50 upgrade will be perfect for them as is the M11/M50 junction north and south (apart from the doubling up of wording!!!!) but everywhere else is crazy (new N7 comes to mind). Why do we let the NRA try out new stuff when proven methods work perfectly elsewhere. Are they trying to justify their salaries?

The M1 interchange is getting a good makeover. 2 flyovers and additional freeflow slips:)

That alternate N7 image is not a runner. The final setup has been decided and is the one we all know at this stage. Whilst not perfect it will definatley be an improvement:)

darkman2

Just one more very important thing ive noticed:


The fact the hotel is built on that photomontage indicates that that image was put together after the EIS was put out so maybe im having second thoughts

mysterious

darkman2 wrote:

Just one more very important thing ive noticed:


The fact the hotel is built on that photomontage indicates that that image was put together after the EIS was put out so maybe im having second thoughts

Well all the plans look newer than the EIS even if the Ballymount and N4 are the same, so it seems to be the final deal, I.e N7 proposed is the final plan? That would be exciting, if it's not I'd say Chris is going to get a lot of grief. I mean why would they post this up on the website as with the rest of the designes.?

Otherwise it would be a perfect April fools joke. Timing is wrong though.

Anyone have more info on this? I've never heard or seen these plans before, there are not on the C.C websites or NRA..

Chris_533976

I dunno why Im doing this as I dont live in Dublin but here we go anyway

I hope the people on the M50 website uploaded the correct picture, or I'll get too much flak to post here anymore

Heres the design off the Dublin Co. Council website. Ripped from a huge PDF document.



Heres the one I found hidden on the M50 website



I have no idea which of these will be built. Hopefully the second, its much better.

Hope this clears up any confusion.

mysterious

I assume the Monastery bridge would not affect the decision. I'm just hoping that the preffered one goes ahead

To clear up the confusion between the the two proposed.

The first one should be called Mad cow and the second one should be called Red cow.:D It causing a lot of confusion I think.

mysterious

Just to make things more confusing, On the Overview section shows that N7
is partial free flow? and the trees are all cut down but not in the pic, lol

mysterious

This is actually to further prove the N7 design just by looking at the pic.. That is indeed the new redcow. Also the new propasal will still have lights on the Monastery road entrance, and the right and left turn before fiats, so it could still mean partial free flow

Chris_533976

Looking closely at that pic shows the old crappy (mad cow) design.

Damn this is all too confusing. I think you'll have to wait about a year and look at what they're building to see if theres one or two loops there

mysterious

Chris_533976 wrote:

Looking closely at that pic shows the old crappy (mad cow) design.

Damn this is all too confusing. I think you'll have to wait about a year and look at what they're building to see if theres one or two loops there

Your wrong, the loop in on R110 mainline bound and loops in from left to right. The Mad cow design loops right to left on a seperate bridge... and the M50 slip that swings over to Naas outbound dosnt go over the loops, in the mad cow it does.

Though it's hard to tell, but I'm right:)

darkman2

I dont think that image is right im afraid.

All you have to do is look at the overview on the same website:

N4 Interchange: This interchange will become a full free flowing interchange. The interchange is grade separated with the M50 mainline passing underneath. Four new road bridges and one new pedestrian / cyclist bridge will be constructed. One existing pedestrian bridge will be reconstructed as a pedestrian / cyclist bridge. (See 'existing' and 'proposed' images.)
N7 Interchange: This interchange will become a partial free flowing interchange. The interchange is grade separated with the M50 mainline passing underneath. The two existing bridges from the roundabout will be used and a further three new road bridges and two pedestrian / cyclist bridges will be constructed. (See 'existing' and 'proposed' images.)

mysterious

Yes the existing bridges are to be used and the other three are the ones added over luas and over the m50soutbound to Naas, and the R110 Loop onto the M50 NB section. The pic might look misleading but it does look like the proposed Redcow mentioned onsite the loops are in the exact aspect. I dear hope it is. It will be road design quite striking in terms of Irish roads and bridges. Its seems sensible to go with this option.

Btw Monastery road and Naas Eastbound will still have lights, I imagine just before Fiats will still have lights for the right and left turn also where traffic from the extra bridge that murphaph mentioned.

Darkman, don't spoil it. It's better believing anything else but the EIS cheap and "stupid" design when clearly it's quite easily poosible to manage and plan an interchange just as easy free flowing.

Andrew Duffy

The hidden page is now a 404.

murphaph

Andrew Duffy wrote:

The hidden page is now a 404.

Too late suckers! Chris_533976 got there in time to save the image

As I mentioned way back, the Monastery Road lights can be eliminated just by closing the road off there and routing traffic other ways towards the city/M50. The FIAT lights can be eliminated simply by forcing traffic to use the M50 s/b as far as Ballymount where it can U-turn to get wherever it needs to go. To be honest, the FIAT lights aren't an issue as traffic heading w/b along the R110 will have travelled through many sets of lights just to get there anyway, one more set won't make a difference! You really want the N7->R110, N7->M50, M50->R110 and M50->N7 all freeflowed and this proposal looks like it can do it. The R110-N7 is not an issue for me.

MICKEYG

darkman2 wrote:

The M1 interchange is getting a good makeover. 2 flyovers and additional freeflow slips:)

I meant the M1/Airport junction, not the M1/M50 junction.

darkman2

MICKEYG wrote:

I meant the M1/Airport junction, not the M1/M50 junction.

Oh rite:)


I think the N7/M50 junction will be the partial freeflow one with the third tier flyover. We will know for sure when they update the proposed junction on the scheme's website:rolleyes:

Iób

The website text says in relation to N4: "Four new road bridges and one new pedestrian / cyclist bridge will be constructed. One existing pedestrian bridge will be reconstructed as a pedestrian / cyclist bridge. (See 'existing' and 'proposed' images.)"

I can't see any pedestrian bridges in either the before or after images.

Also I would expect that the access arrangements for construction would show pedestrian routes at the various stages of construction.

A cycleway in Irish law is a road dedicated to cyclists (with or without pedestrians) so a bridge for cyclists is a road bridge.

mysterious

It would make sense if they went with the free flow option. Is there anyone here would have an idea what the price difference would be, I mean the third tier on the Madcow design is not cheap. IMO if it's going to cost a little bit extra, they might as do a proper job with this interchange and sort out the luas nonsense. it would be well worth it. Note it's the busiest and most important interchange on the M50.

Edt: quote from from Irish times, though its more than two years old.
However, Mr Egan said the planning was to "now go ahead on the basis that the outstanding issues can be agreed". He said the scheme could happen "with the Luas on stilts or on the ground".

I got the figures of both interchanges according to EIS designs, which are just about right. The crappy mad cow luas combination, is 37 million and the Palmerstown interchange is 63 million Euro, hmm why would the Palmerstown by nearly twice the cost, considering the Red cow seems more of a priorty in terms of traffic/design dilemmas with the luas. IIt's fair to say they could of easily went spent a full whack on a redicolous interchange.

mysterious

What is this interchange, it's a pic from the M50 upgrade section on www.arup.ie

To me it looks like another redcow design

and another:D I couldn't help it.

darkman2

First PDF update from website:

http://www.m50.ie/files/m50_traffic_management.pdf

Chris_533976

Hmm no pics of N7 interchange on that. Maybe they're changing their minds and taking the sane, freeflow option?

**fingers crossed**

mysterious

If we did a poll "it would probably the best poll in the world" ie it would be 100% vote for a free flow interchange.

I just read an article on the Gov website. Out of all the interchanges the N7 is the cheapest :eek: That's crazy. The government have no exuse to have the original plan left partially flowing and they have no exuses for the lack of funding. They should at least pur a bit more money into the busiest junction in Ireland. so there is no exuse in the engineering side of things either or the land as that's already sorted. Now with the extra money this year in the exchecqure;) I'm sure (hope)they will put a proper interchange there like the N3 and N4,
and stop faddling and get it right. The N3 alone as it stands, cost more than the other other interchanges combined.

Another 25 million should easily give the N7 a full proper interchange. Still gives an overall price to to the N4 or anytype of interchange to compare too.
Anyway enough of my ramblling. I would like to see a proper interchange, Not nonsense.

darkman2

mysterious wrote:

If we did a poll "it would probably the best poll in the world" ie it would be 100% vote for a free flow interchange.

I just read an article on the Gov website. Out of all the interchanges the N7 is the cheapest :eek: That's crazy. The government have no exuse to have the original plan left partially flowing and they have no exuses for the lack of funding. They should at least pur a bit more money into the busiest junction in Ireland. so there is no exuse in the engineering side of things either or the land as that's already sorted. Now with the extra money this year in the exchecqure;) I'm sure (hope)they will put a proper interchange there like the N3 and N4,
and stop faddling and get it right. The N3 alone as it stands, cost more than the other other interchanges combined.

Another 25 million should easily give the N7 a full proper interchange. Still gives an overall price to to the N4 or anytype of interchange to compare too.
Anyway enough of my ramblling. I would like to see a proper interchange, Not nonsense.

The N3 costs the most because it is the largest of the upgrades and probrably the most complex.

I agree though if they are spending a billion whats an extra 20 million odd??

mysterious

examiner wrote:

Motorists face traffic chaos during M50 upgrade

Plans to widen the country’s busiest road could also disrupt the Luas, as a new stretch of railway may have to be built to convey trams across the Red Cow junction without having to stop for traffic.

The National Roads Authority and South Dublin County Council yesterday confirmed the first stage of the work will begin in the next few weeks on an 8km stretch between the Westlink bridge and Ballymount.

Serious traffic congestion is predicted during peak times for the duration of the

€244 million project, even though two lanes will be kept open in each direction between 6am and 10pm to minimise delays. A 60km speed limit will apply along the route during the construction phase.

Lane restrictions will be in operation outside these hours in order to facilitate construction work, which will last until 2008.

However, traffic disruption on the M50 is set for several more years as the €1 billion project to upgrade a 32km stretch between the M1 interchange and Sandyford will take until 2010 before completion.

Meanwhile, official sources yesterday confirmed there is still no official opening date for the Dublin Port Tunnel. It was scheduled to open early this year but now appears unlikely to be operational before September at the earliest due to ongoing safety tests.

The M50 upgrade will result in a major redesign of key interchanges, including junctions with the N7 at the Red Cow and N4 near Liffey Valley.

The NRA plans to eliminate existing roundabouts and traffic lights at all major intersections by replacing them with “spaghetti junctions” which facilitate traffic to merge without stopping.

Woo, with gas pipellines and Luas problems, it just might well be that an upgraded option is needed;)

Chris_533976

Well that sort-of adds a bit of hope towards the toally freeflow Red Cow option

mike65

Whatever it looks like its gonna freak out the hicks!

Mike.

darkman2

mike65 wrote:

Whatever it looks like its gonna freak out the hicks!

Mike.

'hicks' You mean the 'culties':D They cant use our roads as it is (sorry but im fond of generalisations:D )

sameoldname

Can anyone tell me with reguards the proposed N7 new image, the single lane of traffic crossing the southern-most (left-most in the the image) bridge, what are the chances that it merges with the M50 northbound slip (out of image) perhaps by passing through a tunnel under the Luas tracks and R110 mainline? I dunno, I could be wrong.

darkman2

They seem to have changed the N4 interchange. On the EIS photomontage it had two lanes going east to west on the N4 across the M50. Now it only has one!

mysterious

darkman2 wrote:

The N3 costs the most because it is the largest of the upgrades and probrably the most complex.

I agree though if they are spending a billion whats an extra 20 million odd??

Agree, a figure of 1 billion with an extra 20 million is not extraordinary.

I have being googling old news... I did find some news, but no pics of a free flow set up. What I did find a lot - as I put, gossip = of a free flow interchange at the redcow and plans for luas to run over the Redcow. Like in the plan Chris put up, It was defeniatly on the agenda in the dail whenever the M50 upgrade was brought up. A lot of minister's(mostly opposition parties I'd say) questioned the nature as to why are they not putting a proper free flow arrangement like the N4 for example. They never got a straight answer on that or any other, responses will be just traffic figures justify the current propasal, there are not telling us the future problem to the problems they can solve now. Two years later the luas is getting crowded, the Redcow is still called Madcow and we want a proper interchange now.

The reality is NRA are not interested in spending 40 or 50 million on
the red cow, which is STILL cheaper than either than N4 and N3. Why is this?

Note: the print - It was propose (old news) in 2003 thereabouts before the EIS plans, that 40 or 50 million was efficient to have a free flow arrangement,s with at least luas and road conflicts seperated etc.. Even this seems the impossible.

There is no exuse for this bullSh!T.It will have to be put back to the drawing boards in 5 years time. Who and what are they playing at, lol (lets spend that extra 20 million on private helicopters instead) In 10 years time the Luas will have to be put on silts..

I'd say most would agree if they are going to upgrade the current layout of the messy junction at least Do the bloody thing right, and get rid of the lights. instead of coming up with stupid figures based on 10 years ago. We must not forget they did the exact same mistake when we allowed them to run the luas on the ground level, they got away with that nicely, and they still, don't see the logic to put "luas on silts" The faffyness should stop now, and get a proper free flow arrangement In this current upgrade..


I think the message is clear. It's a half arsed job like before. if the EIS interchange goes ahead(hope it burns to shreds), despite the improvements that is obviously mentioned by the NRA.:rolleyes: I believe it's a Very foolish decision for Ireland's busiest and most notorious interchange.it will be left in 10 years when traffic just cannot cope with the luas conflicts. It will be even more messy to fix it, when they already have a free flow option designed in what 2004-2006. A bit of a relapse to come from this.

The experts, the Ministers and the NRA have not mentioned at anytime, that with the new luas intergration i.e connecting the luas lines and extending it to Citywest will have any impact or effect on the Redcow after the upgrade.
Also it has become obvious especially on the red line that the trams itself need extra carriages and will have to double capactiy, will this affect traffic on the luas? will the extra frequencies and trams to Citywest affect the redcow. Will the M50 slip from Tallaght to both city and Naas be affected by any of this (clearly a busy slip that will not change a bit in the upgrade, just get busier. Did the NRA mention this no.... Con job.:mad:

spockety

Dear Eazy Pass Customer,

As you may be aware, the National Roads Authority (NRA) project to upgrade the M50 to three lanes in each direction and the upgrade of the interchanges has commenced.

Construction will initially focus on the section of the M50 between the N4 Liffey Valley Interchange, immediately south of the West-Link Bridges, and the Ballymount Exit. In addition to adding extra lanes, the Liffey Valley and Red Cow interchanges are to be upgraded to free flow interchanges enabling greater traffic movement on and off the M50.

In order to facilitate this, a construction zone will be created in the middle of the motorway, resulting in the loss of the fast lanes from south of the Ballymount Exits to beyond the N4 Liffey Valley Interchange, and a change of speed limit to 60 kmph. Traffic will be directed on to the left hand lane and the hard shoulder, to ensure that two lanes remain in place.

However, the lane restrictions will extend onto the West-Link Bridges and will affect Eazy Pass users at West-Link. Eazy Pass customers using the southbound dedicated lane will have to taper left after the Toll Plaza, as the right hand lane on the bridge will be closed. The other issue to note going southbound is that currently there are two lanes on the West-Link Bridge for the N4 off ramp. During the upgrade this will be reduced to one lane while two lanes will be maintained for M50 traffic. It will be important for customers needing to exit at the N4 to keep left before the Plaza and use the tollbooths on the left-hand side. Eazy Pass is accepted in all lanes.

Northbound the dedicated Eazy Pass lane will operate as usual, but will commence a little further up the bridge. Eazy Pass customers should exercise caution when entering this dedicated lane as construction vehicles may periodically exit from the construction zone into this lane.

We have been informed by the NRA that the new road lining and guard barriers will be installed in the coming week. Should we receive any additional information in the coming weeks and months regarding the upgrade, we will communicate it to you immediately.

Information on the M50 upgrade is available at www.m50.ie or by calling 1800 24 34 54.

Best regards,

Dermot MacEvilly

Eazy Pass Ltd.
12 Riverwalk
Citywest Business Campus
Dublin 24
Tel: 1890 67 67 68
Tel NI: 00 353 1 4691257

egan007

Their FAQ section

# Q. When will work start on the M50 Upgrade Project N4 to Ballymount?
A. Work will begin this autumn and be completed in two years, in 2008.

LOL - I'm off to the bookies

nordydan

egan007 wrote:

Their FAQ section

# Q. When will work start on the M50 Upgrade Project N4 to Ballymount?
A. Work will begin this autumn and be completed in two years, in 2008.

LOL - I'm off to the bookies

Get odds on the port tunnel while you are there!

darkman2

Any thoughts on the proposed Ballymount upgrade:




I dont use this junction at all really but there does be snarl ups at the roundabouts that enevitably extend back onto the weaving lane on the M50 and also the mainline. I wonder are the crossroads going to be any better Considering they will have lights aswell.

Also and no-one seems to have spotted or answered my query yet as to why there is only one lane from East to West on the N4 across the interchange

mysterious

darkman2 wrote:

Any thoughts on the proposed Ballymount upgrade:




I dont use this junction at all really but there does be snarl ups at the roundabouts that enevitably extend back onto the weaving lane on the M50 and also the mainline. I wonder are the crossroads going to be any better Considering they will have lights aswell.

Also and no-one seems to have spotted or answered my query yet as to why there is only one lane from East to West on the N4 across the interchange

I spotted that, but the N4 is a virtual free flow interchange, with free flow lanes in all directions. the one lane is only just at the bridge. But the reality is there is 3 or four lanes on either side. On top of that it has widened bridges and is wider than the Redcow according to the old EIS. now hopes that the Redcow is changed to free flow arrangements. It's terribly confusiing at this stage. It's actually redicoulous considering they have "started" the construction. No pic of the new red cow is hideous.:rolleyes:

PhilipFromBosco

I'm already trying to come up with a design for the upgrade to the upgrade that will be necessary to make the Redcow interchange full freeflow after it jams up one year after opening in 2008..... Hmm..What flyovers can we add while leaving the legacy elements in place...No there will be objections to flyovers (too American)...OK..How 'bout tunneling underneath. This is what they're doing in Limerick to facilate shipping at Limerick docks (one boat a month) (They're now thinking of selling the remainder of Limerick docks to developers. This contradicts the original reason for the tunnel (80 million euro premium compared to a bridge) Oh! Help me Bosco Hogan.

Do I need to say it...The govenment is too short term thinking.

mysterious

PhilipFromBosco wrote:

I'm already trying to come up with a design for the upgrade to the upgrade that will be necessary to make the Redcow interchange full freeflow after it jams up one year after opening in 2008..... Hmm..What flyovers can we add while leaving the legacy elements in place...No there will be objections to flyovers (too American)...OK..How 'bout tunneling underneath. This is what they're doing in Limerick to facilate shipping at Limerick docks (one boat a month) (They're now thinking of selling the remainder of Limerick docks to developers. This contradicts the original reason for the tunnel (80 million euro premium compared to a bridge) Oh! Help me Bosco Hogan.

Do I need to say it...The govenment is too short term thinking.

"your" coming up with a design.. So which is it then, the EIS going ahead or the luas on silts... as of now?

The government already knew the problems. They won't spend all the money.. they keep the extra money hidden away in a vault, like Charles Haughy did. N7 interchange "costs" very low at 37 million even with the mess of the luas, which was a very stupid stupid decision to put it at grade at a congested junction in the first place. I would safley say if they didn't make that stupid mistake when they were planning the luas, they would have a free flow design today and would have all free flow arrangements including the NB slip coming from Tallaght to city and Naas road.

It's all a big con.

spacetweek

mysterious wrote:

"your" coming up with a design.. So which is it then, the EIS going ahead or the luas on silts... as of now?

The government already knew the problems. They won't spend all the money.. they keep the extra money hidden away in a vault, like Charles Haughy did.

It seems extremely unlikely that they would be penny pinching considering the whole M50 upgrade scheme is costing around a billion (?). Let's hope common sense has prevailed.

We'll know pretty quickly whether they're building the Mad Cow or Red Cow. The Mad Cow design has two new bridges in the middle, the Red Cow doesn't. If we can see something appearing in the middle, then all is lost. Fingers crossed!

mysterious

spacetweek wrote:

It seems extremely unlikely that they would be penny pinching considering the whole M50 upgrade scheme is costing around a billion (?). Let's hope common sense has prevailed.

We'll know pretty quickly whether they're building the Mad Cow or Red Cow. The Mad Cow design has two new bridges in the middle, the Red Cow doesn't. If we can see something appearing in the middle, then all is lost. Fingers crossed!

If they go ahead with Mad cow... Then it's officially second time making the same mistake with the red cow. There's no going back when it's started which is the seriousness of it.

why spend a billion and do half a job right on probably the most traffic snarled section on the M50:rolleyes: I think whoever allowed this cheap luas+trafic at grade, is very stupid.

mysterious

Everybody seems to be quiet about this interchange with regardes to the upgrade, even the website? why did they go the bother of putting a free flow interchange photomontage and take it down again.
Seriously looked at the map again... I have no explanation as to why they wouldn't go with this free flow option. It's shocking.

It will have three new bridges like the other "EIS" with an underpass for the luas. I'm a bit dumbfounded as to what's going ahead? Have they even started the Red cow. I mean have they actually started the construction of the section, ie contactors in there putting in the foundations for the proposed bridges. I just pray to god it's not Madcow a la luas.

The luas will finally be able to glide through on silts like it should if the other is preferred. Eho knows.
The RPA are announcing the extensions to the Tallaght line which will undoubtley affect traffic on the improved EIS mad cow design if it goes ahead. More people and more trams - will not help this junction...

Chris_533976

Well the freeflow version that I found was on a hidden page, with no links to it. It was only by sleuthing that I found it. Presumably when they saw that people had accessed it, they pulled it down.

spacetweek

Chris_533976 wrote:

Well the freeflow version that I found was on a hidden page, with no links to it. It was only by sleuthing that I found it. Presumably when they saw that people had accessed it, they pulled it down.

I can only imagine that the webmaster is unsure which N7 junction they're going for too, and is trying to get an answer.

Seems amazing though, considering they've actually started construction. Maybe one of should go down and ask the builders???