Plumbing

billsteersnose

Hey everyone,

I'm organising to get someone in to give the central heating system an overhaul and I wanted to see if anyone knew if I was getting quoted a good price...

Here's what I'm getting done:
1. the gas boiler moved out to the garage
2. a new water tank into the attic
3. thermostats on all the radiators
4. a new switch in the immersion system to heat the water without heating the rads

I've gotten quoted 4,200 euro. Am I getting reamed?

mjffey

Depends ofcourse on how far out your garage is, the lenght of the new pipes back to the house, how many themostats etc.
I would ask for more quotes anyway. never rely on only one. Get as many in as possible and then compaire what they all offer.

BaZmO*

Well as seen as my job is to price plumbing installations I'll tell you what you should be paying.

1. the gas boiler moved out to the garage
As said, depends how far it has to go and how much pipework is needed.
But worst case scenario is a days work @ €50 per hour & €100 materials.
=> €500 max.

2. a new water tank into the attic
Depends on size of tank, location, pipework, etc.
But worst case scenario is a days work @ €50 per hour & €250 materials which includes for a standard domestic tank.
=> €700 max.


3. thermostats on all the radiators
Depends on size of amount or rads and the type of valves he's using.
But you're looking at €20 per pair of valves and €25 labour to install each one.
10 rads?? €450

4. a new switch in the immersion system to heat the water without heating the rads
€200 all in max.

So that's €500 + €700 + €450 + €250 = €1,900

Of course, I haven't seen the job so I'm not going to be a 100% accurate. But even if you allow €500 for what I might have missed it's still way cheaper.

Ask him how many days it'll take to do and then ask him to give you a labour and materials breakdown. You'll know then if he's taken the p1ss.

billsteersnose

Thanks very much for that! Its actually my folks who are getting the work done and when I heard the cost of it last night, I thought it sounded a bit excessive to say the least.

Thanks again!

311

It's absolute nonsense to go by what someone says over the net for a job like that. Where is the boiler at the moment ??
The most a new water tank in an attic would be is about 320. and thats the base for the tank included along with all fittings.
get your folks to ask around .

To install thermostatic rad valves ,20 euro valve and probably add 100 euro on top of the amount.

Endymion

_Brian_ wrote:

It's absolute nonsense to go by what someone says over the net for a job like that. Where is the boiler at the moment ??
The most a new water tank in an attic would be is about 320. and thats the base for the tank included along with all fittings.
get your folks to ask around .

To install thermostatic rad valves ,20 euro valve and probably add 100 euro on top of the amount.

I agree. BaZmO* you may be able to price the matierials, but you've no idea whats involved in moving that boiler. Much more then just laying pipes. Floor boards might have to come up, walls chased out. electrics rewired in the garage. Yes if it's nice and handy you can do it in a day, provided everything is laid on for you and all you have to do is drop the pipes into ready made channels. But at the same time it might take a week.

To the Op. If you want to know if the guy is takign the piss, get at least two more quotes for the same job, with the same matierials in the same timeframe. That will tell you quickly enough.

Sonnenblumen

Comparing costs on materials and labour is easy slide rule way but not the full picture. I've seen plumbers work on-site and I wouldn't let them move a garden tap never mind any interior work. Like all trades there are good and there are bad examples. Best price is not necessarily best value.

Before you commission any work be sure to see at least 2 previous projects (one of which should be within previous 30 days).

TIP: Never let anybody work in your house without first seeing Proof of his/her PUBLIC (and Employer if they have staff) LIABILITY INSURANCE.

311

Forget about asking a chap to show you his personal business stuff and previous jobs ,any decent tradesman wouldn't lower themself to that level.
If you get a gangster they are the ones who would have all that stuff ready for you to see.

There are plumbers who give good prices and do good work ,but they're the ones you have to hunt for. I personally don't trust places that need to advertise everywhere ,golden pages and the dublin directory should be enough.

Sonnenblumen

_Brian_ wrote:

Forget about asking a chap to show you his personal business stuff and previous jobs ,any decent tradesman wouldn't lower themself to that level.
If you get a gangster they are the ones who would have all that stuff ready for you to see.

There are plumbers who give good prices and do good work ,but they're the ones you have to hunt for. I personally don't trust places that need to advertise everywhere ,golden pages and the dublin directory should be enough.

This is ridiculous and peculiar, if as you suggest " the decent tradesman" treats everything personal and doesn't have "all that stuff ready" to me sounds like a poor way to run a business, not professional and probably closer to cowboy speak.

But I partly agree with the general view that the bigger the ad the bigger the cowboy, but do you suggest clients find the decent tradesmen, trawl the bookies and/or local bars?

No decent site (especially one-off house sites/major refurbs) would allow any self employed tradesman without valid public/employer insurance to enter never mind work on site.

To the OP you can make up your own mind on your selection, but anyone contemplating spending excess € 4k without checking bona fides/credentials is taking unneccessary risks. If things go wrong, and of course they do, you will need the comfort of indemnity for you and/or neighbours.

Trades are plagued by rogue dealers, shoddy workmanship etc etc "no name vans", little or no 'bona fides', no insurances etc etc. I blame customers who focus exclusively on price for not doing adequate pre-checks. There are pros out there, you may have to search them out, even wait, but they do top work an dproud to show/discuss details.

Do-more

Sonnenblumen wrote:

but do you suggest clients find the decent tradesmen, trawl the bookies and/or local bars?

Round my way, it would be a great place to start, all the best plumbers are Alco's. Most are also raving lunatics, I put it down to breathing in fumes from the flux myself. I thought it was the same all over!

Sonnenblumen wrote:

"no name vans"

Similarly, the best plumbers around my area have no sign-writing on their vans. A sign-written van to me indicates a "Johnny come lately" who isn't overrun with work on word of mouth alone....

Endymion

Sonnenblumen wrote:

This is ridiculous and peculiar, if as you suggest " the decent tradesman" treats everything personal and doesn't have "all that stuff ready" to me sounds like a poor way to run a business, not professional and probably closer to cowboy speak.

But I partly agree with the general view that the bigger the ad the bigger the cowboy, but do you suggest clients find the decent tradesmen, trawl the bookies and/or local bars?

No decent site (especially one-off house sites/major refurbs) would allow any self employed tradesman without valid public/employer insurance to enter never mind work on site.

To the OP you can make up your own mind on your selection, but anyone contemplating spending excess € 4k without checking bona fides/credentials is taking unneccessary risks. If things go wrong, and of course they do, you will need the comfort of indemnity for you and/or neighbours.

Trades are plagued by rogue dealers, shoddy workmanship etc etc "no name vans", little or no 'bona fides', no insurances etc etc. I blame customers who focus exclusively on price for not doing adequate pre-checks. There are pros out there, you may have to search them out, even wait, but they do top work an dproud to show/discuss details.

Hmm, most trades men work by reputation alone, and as such couldn't be arsed with stuff like providing copies of their insurances records (though I still faill to see how insurance = decent plumber) . My brother has insurance, he also works 6 days a week are wouldn't be arsed coming back to someone who asked for his insurance details. It would be taken as the thin eadge or a rather large wedge and an unneeded head ache.

Do-more, I've more with plenty of alco, I can safetly say your complete wrong about them beign the best tradesmen. Dangerous and sloppy spring to mind. As well as thiefing and lazy.

Sonnenblumen

Is it no wonder many Irish tradesmen will never compare to other countries, a good one is very much an exception rather than the rule. I mean if their attitude is halfway up their arse what do you imagine their work is like!

If you want a really great tradesman pick a East European but best are German but not many here.

Always easy to spot an asshole, he's usually the one with the dirtiest clothing (rarely workwear and wearing sneakers) one advertsing sloppy workmanship!!

BTW If you cannot make the link between Insurance and good plumber, then how do you know what a good one is?

Alun

Although it might be true that (in Ireland at least) reputation is everything, that doesn't make it easy for a lot of people to find a half decent tradesman, especially if they're new to an area, a city or in my case, new to the country. What am I supposed to do ... ring on the front door of every house in the neighbourhood on the off-chance that they might have had a central heating job or whatever done in the last 12 months? Not very practical, I think you'll agree.

As Sonnenblumen says, on the continent, although there is the odd cowboy, you can pretty much pick a random name out of the yellow pages and be guaranteed of a good'un. And if they're members of whatever trade organisation they should belong to, even if they do mess up, you're covered, since these organisations actually have teeth and will act, unlike the excuses for such organisations here.

311

Theres no given to a good tradesman ,some like a pint after work ,some don't get home till 10. You can't pigeon hole good tradesmen by the way they lead their lives .
If someone asked me for insurance details ,I'd ask them for their badge number.

You'll find if you disrespect a person ,they'll do the same to you.

Endymion

Sonnenblumen wrote:

Is it no wonder many Irish tradesmen will never compare to other countries, a good one is very much an exception rather than the rule. I mean if their attitude is halfway up their arse what do you imagine their work is like!

supply and demand. Their in demand, which means they don't need to take ****. People have this attitude that tradesmen should eat **** sandwiches for breakfast lunch and dinner, and be grateful. A highly qualified highly paid professional, with more work on then their are enough hours in the day, is not going to bend over and take it.

If you want a really great tradesman pick a East European but best are German but not many here.

When people have been unemployed for years or have grown up in a situation where employment is difficult to find and keep, they tend to look at work as an opportunity rather then take it for granted, which we all do btw. Give it a few years. see how your "east Europeans" fair, once they realise they can charge allot more and do allot less.

Always easy to spot an asshole, he's usually the one with the dirtiest clothing (rarely workwear and wearing sneakers) one advertsing sloppy workmanship!!

Jesus. talk about judging a book by its cover. This mentality does my head in. People he think a nice clean uniform will result in a better job. It's clothing, it doesn't demonstrate skill. Usually in my experience the lads in the spotless uniforms, where the work shy bastards.

If you cannot make the link between Insurance and good plumber, then how do you know what a good one is?

The first part of your sentence doesn't seem to relate to the other. Someone having insurance merely means they have insurance. It's doesn't automatically mean their going to do the best and cheapest job. It doesn't mean they won't either. It just the arbitrary thing you've decided to latch onto. The insurance broker doesn't examine the quality of the tradesman work before issuing a policy, so why would you use it as a measure of how good he is. It really baffles my mind.

Btw there is a huge difference between asking someone if they are insured (that fair enough) and asking someone for proof they are insured. The later says, I don't trust you. There needs to be trust between the trademan and hte person getting the job done, otherwise it will just be a pain in the arse. It's not very nice working for someone whose first and last thoughts are that you trying to do them.

Alun, That what people do. They see someone getting work done and they go over and have a look and ask what he was like and so on and so forth. I've often been on a job, only to end up working next door, or down the street afew weeks later.

Alun

Carnivore wrote:

Alun, That what people do. They see someone getting work done and they go over and have a look and ask what he was like and so on and so forth. I've often been on a job, only to end up working next door, or down the street afew weeks later.

Fair enough, IF you just happen to spot one just before you happen to need a similar job done yourself. We had the outside of our house painted after seeing someone do what appeared to be a good job over the road from us. But it's not a terribly useful strategy if you need a job doing in a relative hurry and you don't happen to have seen a plumber / tiler / brickie / whatever active in your area in recent times.

Endymion

family friends and the yellow pages tbh.

311

I've noticed in this thread and other threads that it seems to be a given that eastern european workers are better than irish ones .
I've seen a great job done by a polish lad on a bathroom suite ,he tiled and plumbed the bathroom with an immaculate finish.
I've also seem some of the most unprofessional work done in other areas by other lads from the same parts. So it's really just the same as here ,you might get a chap who knows what they are doing ,but you might not.

They might be faster ,but if the job is not done right ,you won't know it's not done right ,:o if it's done too fast.

Sonnenblumen

Carnivore wrote:

supply and demand. Their in demand, which means they don't need to take ****. People have this attitude that tradesmen should eat **** sandwiches for breakfast lunch and dinner, and be grateful. A highly qualified highly paid professional, with more work on then their are enough hours in the day, is not going to bend over and take it.

Jesus. talk about judging a book by its cover. This mentality does my head in. People he think a nice clean uniform will result in a better job. It's clothing, it doesn't demonstrate skill. Usually in my experience the lads in the spotless uniforms, where the work shy bastards.

The first part of your sentence doesn't seem to relate to the other. Someone having insurance merely means they have insurance. It's doesn't automatically mean their going to do the best and cheapest job. It doesn't mean they won't either. It just the arbitrary thing you've decided to latch onto. The insurance broker doesn't examine the quality of the tradesman work before issuing a policy, so why would you use it as a measure of how good he is. It really baffles my mind.

Btw there is a huge difference between asking someone if they are insured (that fair enough) and asking someone for proof they are insured. The later says, I don't trust you. There needs to be trust between the trademan and hte person getting the job done, otherwise it will just be a pain in the arse. It's not very nice working for someone whose first and last thoughts are that you trying to do them.

Your sentiments would remind me of the TV rogue traders who mostly haven't got an iota of understanding of what is to be professional. IMO most Irish tradesmen are sub-standard, their presentation generally lacking or non existant, but really clueless when it come to professionalism, always suffer siege mentality everytime soimeone asks an honest but searching question, reactions are typically "get out of here quick".

What's wrong asking someone if they have insurance? Do you mistrust the Gardai when they enquire about your car insurance? If you're a professional, why would it bother you so much for a propsective customer to enquire if you've got public liability? If you want to build trust you offer the information, the professional would be able to anticipate clients needs/concerns. But hey, I don't want to lecture you. It's got nothing whatsoever to do with trust, its all about weeding out amateurs. Asking about insurance is a foolproof starting point!

Endymion

Sonnenblumen wrote:

Your sentiments would remind me of the TV rogue traders who mostly haven't got an iota of understanding of what is to be professional. IMO most Irish tradesmen are sub-standard, their presentation generally lacking or non existant, but really clueless when it come to professionalism, always suffer siege mentality everytime soimeone asks an honest but searching question, reactions are typically "get out of here quick".

What's wrong asking someone if they have insurance? Do you mistrust the Gardai when they enquire about your car insurance? If you're a professional, why would it bother you so much for a propsective customer to enquire if you've got public liability? If you want to build trust you offer the information, the professional would be able to anticipate clients needs/concerns. But hey, I don't want to lecture you. It's got nothing whatsoever to do with trust, its all about weeding out amateurs. Asking about insurance is a foolproof starting point!

meh, I said there nothing wrong with asking, the problem is your demanding proof. What do you do for a living btw, that you can critise me and call me unprofessional. I'm a final year electronics engineer.

BaZmO*

_Brian_ wrote:

It's absolute nonsense to go by what someone says over the net for a job like that.

You say that and then go on to give someone an estimate of how much the work will cost? :rolleyes:

Carnivore wrote:

BaZmO* you may be able to price the matierials, but you've no idea whats involved in moving that boiler. Much more then just laying pipes. Floor boards might have to come up, walls chased out. electrics rewired in the garage. Yes if it's nice and handy you can do it in a day, provided everything is laid on for you and all you have to do is drop the pipes into ready made channels. But at the same time it might take a week.

As I've said several times in my post, of course it depends on what's involved but I was giving him a general estimate of the cost for materials and labour. All jobs will differ but as I've been working in the trade for over 10 years now I think I'm fairly qualified to give him a general guide as to what he may need to pay to get the work done.

As for all the arguments about insurances and the way someone looks (WTF?? that one has to be a p1sstake). :rolleyes:
If you're getting a fairly big job done and you get the company from the yellow pages, well then sure ask them to provide proof of insurance. More than likely they'll have it and once they're FAS registered you should be fine.
However, if you're getting the job done as a nixer (as is the way of a lot of work) chances are the guy won't be insured.

mariasnow0

I think these systems are great. I think people will give money as per your requirements. These systems are used in heating.

Gary Busey

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

This is ridiculous and peculiar, if as you suggest " the decent tradesman" treats everything personal and doesn't have "all that stuff ready" to me sounds like a poor way to run a business, not professional and probably closer to cowboy speak.

But I partly agree with the general view that the bigger the ad the bigger the cowboy, but do you suggest clients find the decent tradesmen, trawl the bookies and/or local bars?

No decent site (especially one-off house sites/major refurbs) would allow any self employed tradesman without valid public/employer insurance to enter never mind work on site.

To the OP you can make up your own mind on your selection, but anyone contemplating spending excess € 4k without checking bona fides/credentials is taking unneccessary risks. If things go wrong, and of course they do, you will need the comfort of indemnity for you and/or neighbours.

Trades are plagued by rogue dealers, shoddy workmanship etc etc "no name vans", little or no 'bona fides', no insurances etc etc. I blame customers who focus exclusively on price for not doing adequate pre-checks. There are pros out there, you may have to search them out, even wait, but they do top work an dproud to show/discuss details.

I have a no name van and have never been asked for a reference to previous work:eek: Does that make me a cowboy??

You seem to be on a witch hunt mate. I have insurance etc and would be taken back if someone asked me to bring them into a clients premisis to view my work!

And for the record, I do know the type of tradesman your preaching about and il admit there are some who have no conscience but dont tar use all wsith the same brush.

I have never........ever ripped anyone off or tried to pull the wool over there eyes. In fact my work is so consistantly to high standard that I dont advertise all. But I guess I may aswell come up with a company name and print it on my van because thats what make me a good tradesman yes?:rolleyes:

Out of curiosity what exactly is your profession?

Gary Busey

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Always easy to spot an asshole

yes, yes it is!:rolleyes:

what is your profession so we can all learn from the mighty guru.

If i came to your house to do work and you gave me that attitude i would walk away. People like you usually get the crap tradesmen because the good one wouldnt put up with the how disrespectful you are.

I hope whatever tradesman that did work for you did a really bad job. I also hope it cost you thousands because it sounds like you desearve it TBH

red sean

Thread is 6 years old !!!!!

Gary Busey

BaZmO* wrote: »

As I've said several times in my post, of course it depends on what's involved but I was giving him a general estimate of the cost for materials and labour. All jobs will differ but as I've been working in the trade for over 10 years now I think I'm fairly qualified to give him a general guide as to what he may need to pay to get the work done.

First of there is only qualified or not qualified(are you?)
I think the point is you havnt seen the job and whats involved so you shouldnt give an estimate. You should probably ask for a few photos before you lose a lad work. Im not having a go or trying to criticize you, Im just saying ten years in the trade does not make you phychic. No 2 jobs are the same so if you have been pricing jobs like you just did there then your just pulling figures out of the sky (or crystal ball by the sounds of it). The only way you can coment on the price is if you see the job. 10 years in the trade should have thought you that.

Gary Busey

red sean wrote: »

Thread is 6 years old !!!!!

wow, how did that happen??

Sorry:o:o:o

red sean

No problem
Was just letting you know as you may not get a response after that length of time.

BaZmO*

Gary Busey wrote: »

First of there is only qualified or not qualified(are you?)
I think the point is you havnt seen the job and whats involved so you shouldnt give an estimate. You should probably ask for a few photos before you lose a lad work. Im not having a go or trying to criticize you, Im just saying ten years in the trade does not make you phychic. No 2 jobs are the same so if you have been pricing jobs like you just did there then your just pulling figures out of the sky (or crystal ball by the sounds of it). The only way you can coment on the price is if you see the job. 10 years in the trade should have thought you that.

Jesus Christ, the thread is 6 years old! Plus, I'd said in my original post "and" the post that you quoted that all jobs differ, and of course it will depend on the specifics of the job. I even went as far as to give a breakdown of what I had included for so the OP could make an educated guess as to what the up and over works would cost.

I'd also hazard a guess that if the same job was being priced today that the quote would be significantly lower.

Gary Busey

BaZmO* wrote: »

Jesus Christ, the thread is 6 years old! Plus, I'd said in my original post "and" the post that you quoted that all jobs differ, and of course it will depend on the specifics of the job. I even went as far as to give a breakdown of what I had included for so the OP could make an educated guess as to what the up and over works would cost.

I'd also hazard a guess that if the same job was being priced today that the quote would be significantly lower.

I have already appoligised for posting here, I didnt search it....someone else dug it up and I didnt realise. And yes it might be lower but the point I was trying to get across is you cant give a price on something you can see.

Oh and before we get into a debate on he said she said, I got my back up over the poster being disrespecfull towards irish people. Made my blood boil so when i got to replying to your post i was fairly pissed. I can honestly say I have never heard more crap in my life that what Sonnenblumen was spouting which is where my attitude started.

So again I appoligise for posting on the thread and to yourself:o