Marriage and conversion to Islam

HelterSkelter

I am just wondering about the reasons why a Christian/Jewish man has to convert to Islam in order to marry Muslim woman, yet a Christian/Jewish woman does not have to convert in order to marry a Muslim man.

From various articles I have read on this issue it seems that this is because the man is the leader of the family and it is his responsibility to raise the children as Muslims (please correct me if I am wrong). However in everyday life, at least in the western world, it is always the mother who has more of a say in raising the children and has a bigger impact on their lives and their religious beliefs. Surely it would be better for them to have a Muslim mother and a non-Muslim father rather than the other way around.

I'd like to hear your opinions on this.

Thanks.

the_new_mr

Hi HelterSkelter. Sorry for the large delay. Real-life been pretty busy this weather

Anyway, I'm not sure if I can give you a satisfactory answer but I shall try my best God willing.

The children factor you mentioned is one reason but, as you mentioned, it can go the other way. I wouldn't say that the mother has more influence on such things as I've seen plently of real-life examples including one family where 3 brothers and 1 sister had different faiths. The brothers going with the father's faith of Islam and the sister going with the mother's faith of Christianity. The father felt quite cheated actually since that wasn't the agreement before the marriage but that's what happened anyway.

Anyway, one main reason why is because in a hypothetical inter-faith marriage with a Jew or Christian man, the man's faith would require certain things of the wife since he is seen in the Torah and Bible as the leader of the family which may be incompatible with her faith of Islam. When going the other way though, the Chrisitan or Jewish wife's beliefs would be compatible.

The Imam or whoever would also have no right to intervene and stop the woman from taking the husband's family name etc.

And God knows best.

Hope this answers your question

Rev Hellfire

the_new_mr wrote:

Anyway, one main reason why is because in a hypothetical inter-faith marriage with a Jew or Christian man, the man's faith would require certain things of the wife since he is seen in the Torah and Bible as the leader of the family which may be incompatible with her faith of Islam. When going the other way though, the Chrisitan or Jewish wife's beliefs would be compatible.

I'm not sure I understand your last sentence in this matter (I bolded it). Surely for a Christian mother it is her duty to propagate the faith (it is in Catholicism at the very least) while for a Jewish mother it would be no less added to the fact the (and I may be wrong on this) Jewish ness comes from the mother's side. So how can you determine that their faiths would be compatible?

the_new_mr

Well, in the sense that Islam sees Judaism and Christianity as messages up to and including the Prophets Moses and Jesus respectively (peace be upon them) which are both common to the religion of Islam, this means that the laws of marriage are compatible when a Muslim man marries a Christian or Jewish woman. This is not so the other way around where a woman in a Christian marriage that is approved by the laws of the Church would have to take her husband's name, turn her possesions over to her husband, etc. Then there are certain other rules like the rule of divorce or things like that. So, it's really a protection of the rights of women in Islam rather than an infringement as some people say.

In Christianity and Judaism, the husband is given leadership of the family and so the local Mosque or whatever would have no authority over the marriage and would not be able to step in and intervene if the woman in the marriage had some problems.

As for your point about the children, if the Cathloic woman is prepared to bring the children up as Muslims, then everything else she wants to do in her religion is fine. This is not the case when the other way around. If, on the other hand, the Christian or Jewish woman is not okay with the children being brought up as Muslims then, of course, the decision is her's in the first place not to get married.

I hope I've clarified the situation a bit more now.

Rev Hellfire

I can certainly accept your point on the rights which Islam as a religion may have traditionally granted to women are superior to those that where perhaps granted her non-contemporary Christian counterpart, but would I say that is certainly not the case today.
You stated divorce is one example where Islam may be seen as ahead of say the Catholic Church (assuming if we ignore annulments), but that is a matter of catholic dogma(noone can divorce so its not really relevent), but certainly a woman can initiate divorce in other Christian denominations. But a jewish woman is if we follow the letter of the law certainly in a better possition than either her christian or islamic counterpart since the very act of marriage in that faith included a siplulation(contract) as to the finanical obligations the husband would have in the event of a divorce.

I'm surprised at your statement that in the male has been traditionally the head of the household in both Christian and Judaism but that is not the case in Islam? I was under the impression it was also the case or are you saying that the imam/mosque can intervene. If so how? Can they annul the marriage or intervene in some other manner and under what authority can they do so?

I certainly agree with your view that a practicing catholic would not be compatible in marriage with a practicing Muslim since both religions would demand that offspring are raised in their respective faiths. And that would true also of other christian demoninations.

On a side note and maybe I’m reading something which isn’t the case, but you say that ignoring the above point that a spouse from one of the Abramic religions would be compatible in marriage, but that a spouse of a non-Abramic religion would not be. Ie a buddist? Why would this be case.

the_new_mr

Well, I was stating divorce as one example and probably only really in conflict with the Catholic church. It was simply something that came to mind.

Rev Hellfire wrote:

But a jewish woman is if we follow the letter of the law certainly in a better possition than either her christian or islamic counterpart since the very act of marriage in that faith included a siplulation(contract) as to the finanical obligations the husband would have in the event of a divorce.

Well, I didn't know that about Judaism. Learn something new everyday I guess. Same in Islam actually. Islam views marriage as a partnership between a loving man and a loving woman and a contract is part of that partnership to be agreed upon by both parties before the marriage itself.

I was under the impression it was also the case or are you saying that the imam/mosque can intervene.

Yes, I'm saying the imam/mosque can intevene.

Can they annul the marriage or intervene in some other manner and under what authority can they do so?

Court in an Islamic country and, I guess, community pressure in a non-Islamic country. But actually when I said authority I meant in the case of telling what he can and can't do, should and shouldn't do etc.

On a side note and maybe I’m reading something which isn’t the case, but you say that ignoring the above point that a spouse from one of the Abramic religions would be compatible in marriage, but that a spouse of a non-Abramic religion would not be. Ie a buddist? Why would this be case.

Well, as already said, women are only allowed to marry Muslim men. Muslim men are allowed to marry Muslim women or women from People of the Book (Jews, Christians). Anyone else is not okay.

The verses in question detailing this.

Al-Ma'idah:5
This day are (all) good things made lawful for you. The food of those who have received the Scripture is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them. And so are the virtuous women of the believers and the virtuous women of those who received the Scripture before you (lawful for you) when ye give them their marriage portions and live with them in honor, not in fornication, nor taking them as secret concubines. Whoso denieth the faith, his work is vain and he will be among the losers in the Hereafter."

As for why, that is a matter with God. We don't always know why and we don't always have to know why. Maybe it's because the belief of a Muslim and a Buddhist would be too far apart from an any way stable marriage but that's just conjecture on my part. God knows best.

Rev Hellfire

Thanks for the quick answers.

One last one I promise. Looking at the verse you quoted I can see how the restriction to Abramic religions could be taken from it, but where does the stipulation that a Muslim women can only marry a fellow Muslim, but that for a male this is not the case. I'm assuming it not implied in that verse or am I simply missing it.

the_new_mr

You're welcome for the answers. It's a pleasure to answer them. Sorry that this one is late

Verse number 5 from Al-Ma'ida states that the virtuous women from believers and People of the Book are okay. There is no mention of it being okay the other way around. This was one of the last verses to be revealed in the Quran.

In another verse in the Quran, God states:
Al-Baqara:221
"Wed not idolatresses till they believe; for lo! a believing bondwoman is better than an idolatress though she please you; and give not your daughters in marriage to idolaters till they believe, for lo! a believing slave is better than an idolater though he please you. These invite unto the Fire, and Allah inviteth unto the Garden, and unto forgiveness by His grace, and expoundeth thus His revelations to mankind that haply they may remember."

This verse clearly expresses individually the situation for a man and the situation for a women. So, it is my humble understanding that the fact that both were addressed in verse 221 of Al-Baqara but only the situation for men in verse number 5 of Al-Ma'ida is the reason. I could be completely wrong though. Only God knows.

The Volt

Awfully sorry to dig up an ancient relic of a thread but on searching for my problem this was all I could find. Finally got the courage to talk to and try to get to know a girl in college that I've been obsessing about for a long time. She's Muslim it's already come up that nothing could happen with me willingly converting to Islam. I strongly get the impression she likes me too and we've gotten close enough that we've spoken about each other's past. She had a pretty serious relationship that had broken down because the guy wouldn't convert.

I'm finding out more and more about her every day and I'm wondering if I should try cut her loose for my own good as it seems nothing can ever happen.

Apologies if my ignorance offends anyone.

Jaafa

Voltwad wrote: »

Awfully sorry to dig up an ancient relic of a thread but on searching for my problem this was all I could find. Finally got the courage to talk to and try to get to know a girl in college that I've been obsessing about for a long time. She's Muslim it's already come up that nothing could happen with me willingly converting to Islam. I strongly get the impression she likes me too and we've gotten close enough that we've spoken about each other's past. She had a pretty serious relationship that had broken down because the guy wouldn't convert.

I'm finding out more and more about her every day and I'm wondering if I should try cut her loose for my own good as it seems nothing can ever happen.

Apologies if my ignorance offends anyone.

Do you want to convert?

The Volt

Jaafa wrote: »

Do you want to convert?

I'd consider myself Atheist/Agnostic. Religion hasn't played a significant role in my life for years now and I've been impressed with readings in existentialism.

I've started to read up about Islam and the Quran and I'm intrigued but not yet sure what to make of any of it. I'm only 21 and all I'd really like is a chance to get to know this girl a lot better than I do now but I don't know if I'll be afforded the time to do so. All I can say is I wouldn't rule out converting but I've only just broken the seal on Islamic readings.

I've always been very socially liberal in my political beliefs as well which is another deterrent for me but as I said, I wouldn't stroke a line through it yet.

Jaafa

Voltwad wrote: »

I'd consider myself Atheist/Agnostic. Religion hasn't played a significant role in my life for years now and I've been impressed with readings in existentialism.

I've started to read up about Islam and the Quran and I'm intrigued but not yet sure what to make of any of it. I'm only 21 and all I'd really like is a chance to get to know this girl a lot better than I do now but I don't know if I'll be afforded the time to do so. All I can say is I wouldn't rule out converting but I've only just broken the seal on Islamic readings.

I've always been very socially liberal in my political beliefs as well which is another deterrent for me but as I said, I wouldn't stroke a line through it yet.

I see so you fear if and when you ever decided to convert she'll have already gone off with someone else. Its a tricky one alright...

I would say if your serious about her, make it known that you are looking into Islam just so she has that in her head. Perhaps it will buy you more time with her if as you say she likes you too.

Ultimately though it sounds like she isn't gona budge on the conversion thing so it seems that will have to be the end result if you want something to happen.

Like I say though let her know you are learning about Islam. Study it carefully and get both sides of the story as they say. I will say one thing though and you will have probably heard this before but I feel Islam is a way of life.

It teaches a certain self respect and respect for others. Perhaps this is in part what attracted you to her in the first place. And as a way of a life and guide,you can begin to practice some of its traditions without necessarily believing in God. (That feels weird to say as a Muslim :P)

What I'm trying to say is that if you decided to take this step, see prayer as meditation. See reading the quran as scholarly learning. See fasting as a tool to achieve modesty, see not drinking as a health benefit etc. And then perhaps later on you will develop a relationship with God.

Its one option maybe not the best but I hope it helps.

Oh and I'm not sure what her political views have to do with it. Is their something specific you disagree with?

The Volt

Thanks for your thoughts. I wasn't talking about her political views, rather how my own sort of clash with Islam. For example, I'd be very pro-equality in terms of women's rights and LGBT issues.

Jaafa

Voltwad wrote: »

Thanks for your thoughts. I wasn't talking about her political views, rather how my own sort of clash with Islam. For example, I'd be very pro-equality in terms of women's rights and LGBT issues.

Well I don't think she'd have a problem with womens rights. Also there are some pro LGBT groups in Islam. Small but there. Theres a thread or too on this forum about them.

The Volt

The big issue seems to be with her parents. It must be difficult for her being brought up in a Western society

Jaafa

Voltwad wrote: »

The big issue seems to be with her parents. It must be difficult for her being brought up in a Western society

Where is she from?

The Volt

Jaafa wrote: »

Where is she from?

Pakistan. Karachi if I'm not mistaken.

Jaafa

Voltwad wrote: »

Pakistan. Karachi if I'm not mistaken.

That would explain that then. Well listen I've given my advice and I don't want to interfere any more so good luck with her and hope it works out for you.

The Volt

Jaafa wrote: »

That would explain that then. Well listen I've given my advice and I don't want to interfere any more so good luck with her and hope it works out for you.

You're not interfering

Jaafa

Voltwad wrote: »

You're not interfering

Ah I just like to be cautious when giving advice. It can very quickly turn to interference.

If you like you can PM me if you need anything else.

irishconvert

Voltwad wrote: »

Awfully sorry to dig up an ancient relic of a thread but on searching for my problem this was all I could find. Finally got the courage to talk to and try to get to know a girl in college that I've been obsessing about for a long time. She's Muslim it's already come up that nothing could happen with me willingly converting to Islam. I strongly get the impression she likes me too and we've gotten close enough that we've spoken about each other's past. She had a pretty serious relationship that had broken down because the guy wouldn't convert.

I'm finding out more and more about her every day and I'm wondering if I should try cut her loose for my own good as it seems nothing can ever happen.

Apologies if my ignorance offends anyone.

Try reading the Qur'an and speaking to someone who has knowledge in it in order to explain it to you. Otherwise you may get the wrong meaning from some parts of it. You can go into a mosque anyday and the brothers there would be very happy to help you and answer any questions. Don't worry, you won't be forced to convert or anything!

As for the girl, well I don't know if there is much hope. She said you need to willingly convert, and to be honest, even if you are enthuastic about Islam, it could take a long time before you are ready to convert. It is a very different way of life from the Irish way. Would she be willing to wait until you are ready to accept Islam, if you ever are.

BTW, I am an Irish convert and was in a very similar situation to you. I ended up converting after 3 years of research and am now married to the girl!!

One more thing, you said you are very pro women's rights, etc. If you are serious about Islam you need to throw away all the negative propaganda we are fed in the west and learn about the real Islam. You will be surprised that it is very different to what you think it is.

Mark Hamill

Voltwad wrote: »

Awfully sorry to dig up an ancient relic of a thread but on searching for my problem this was all I could find. Finally got the courage to talk to and try to get to know a girl in college that I've been obsessing about for a long time. She's Muslim it's already come up that nothing could happen with me willingly converting to Islam. I strongly get the impression she likes me too and we've gotten close enough that we've spoken about each other's past. She had a pretty serious relationship that had broken down because the guy wouldn't convert.

I'm finding out more and more about her every day and I'm wondering if I should try cut her loose for my own good as it seems nothing can ever happen.

Apologies if my ignorance offends anyone.

Even if you convert and then get close to her, how can you not have in the back of your head that the only reason she is with you is because you are a muslim? That you relationship is not based on love or mutual respect, but on satisfying a rule designed purely to ensure that your kids become muslim?

irishconvert

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Even if you convert and then get close to her, how can you not have in the back of your head that the only reason she is with you is because you are a muslim? That you relationship is not based on love or mutual respect, but on satisfying a rule designed purely to ensure that your kids become muslim?

It would not be the ONLY reason. It is probably one of many reasons.

oceanclub

Voltwad wrote: »

The big issue seems to be with her parents. It must be difficult for her being brought up in a Western society

Is it a case she wants you to "convert" for appearance's sake? That is, just pretend to be a Muslim to please her parents? Or is she observant/a believer and would expect you to be observant/believer too? At least with the former, I guess you could cross your fingers.

You say you're an atheist, which I presume means that you don't believe in the concept of any god. It's going to be a big leap to get from that to )_genuinely_ believing in a particular god, whose prophet was a man called Muhammed born in 570.

And all patriarchial religions have retrograde views on women and gay rights; some less than others.

It just seems a strange step to entirely change your beliefs at 21 for a girl who hasn't really shown that much interest in you; I mean, has she said she loves you? Shown any indication she has?

P.

MagicMarker

I'm sorry, converting for the purposes of marriage is one thing. Converting at 21 because you like a girl and would like to start seeing her romantically is utterly ridiculous.

wes

Trying not to hurt anyones feelings, but its certainly possible that the Woman in question is using Religion as a way to let you down lightly. Now I could be wrong here, but you wouldn't be the first guy to misread signals.

rambutman

Her parents (probably) have a lot to do with this.

Think very carefully about this before you make any choices. Also look into the consequences of what happens if this does not work out and you want to convert back again.

You also need to think about children in the future. While you may be happy to convert yourself - consider how you feel about your children being raised as muslims..................there are issues such as circumcision that need to be addressed. What about Xmas - when you're family are celebrating Xmas and your potential wife has problems with your children celebrating Xmas with their grandparents (your children)...........all this sort of stuff.

I converted in 2003 (got circumcised as well at the age of 30) and my marriage has not worked out...........all these issues above have factored in my life. I have had arguments when my little girl was born about not wanting her circumcised (i got my way here). I have constant arguments and worries when my ex wife brings my 7 year old son back to her home country about circumcision.

It's a big decision and while you may be able to deal with the consequences of your own conversion, keep in mind the consequences for others too.

Interracial (and especially with religion involved) marriages can be tough........make sure you consider all the aspects of it.

whydoc

I want to add that if you are willing to marry her, you are not the first one to do so ( revert ) , this may be a chance God is giving you to return to him and know him truely. The ideology of atheism and denying the creator are no longer acceptible while you are seeing thouthands of God's signs around you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YIhFWWMppM
You can read some stories about more reverts from atheism here ( at the bottom ), and ask God to guide you to what's better for you.

Penn

I think it's important to note that you're currently an atheist. Now obviously, people have gone from being atheists to being a Christian/Muslim/Jew etc, so this doesn't go for everyone, but do you think that you could convert to Islam? I'm an atheist myself so can only speak from my own viewpoint, but I don't think I could go from not believing in God, to believing in God. I can't choose what to believe in, I either believe it or I don't.

You shouldn't convert if you can't fully embrace the religion. I know people here have suggested researching the religion more, but if you're an atheist now and became an atheist of your own free will and probably naturally, do you think you can change that? If not, this more than likely isn't going to work

seeing_ie

Hi Rambutman,

Yours sounds an interesting experience. You give good advice too it seems to me.

What religion were you (if any) before you converted?

Did you convert back when your marriage ended?

rambutman wrote: »

Her parents (probably) have a lot to do with this.

Think very carefully about this before you make any choices. Also look into the consequences of what happens if this does not work out and you want to convert back again.

You also need to think about children in the future. While you may be happy to convert yourself - consider how you feel about your children being raised as muslims..................there are issues such as circumcision that need to be addressed. What about Xmas - when you're family are celebrating Xmas and your potential wife has problems with your children celebrating Xmas with their grandparents (your children)...........all this sort of stuff.

I converted in 2003 (got circumcised as well at the age of 30) and my marriage has not worked out...........all these issues above have factored in my life. I have had arguments when my little girl was born about not wanting her circumcised (i got my way here). I have constant arguments and worries when my ex wife brings my 7 year old son back to her home country about circumcision.

It's a big decision and while you may be able to deal with the consequences of your own conversion, keep in mind the consequences for others too.

Interracial (and especially with religion involved) marriages can be tough........make sure you consider all the aspects of it.

rambutman

seeing_ie wrote: »

Hi Rambutman,

Yours sounds an interesting experience. You give good advice too it seems to me.

What religion were you (if any) before you converted?

Did you convert back when your marriage ended?

I was brought up as a catholic..............went to a catholic school, would have been practising up to about the age of 15 - would have gone through the motions for a few years and then levelled out as an atheist. I'm a scientist (by education) and the whole heaven business etc makes no sense to my logical mind. I do believe though that just because you can't explain something at this point in time doesn't mean there isn't something going on that we may be able to explain at some point in the future - the optimistic part of me veers towards spiritualism whereas the realist (some would say pessimist) in me veers towards the big sleep in a hole in the ground. I do believe in Karma however. The reason I'm giving this detail is to highlight the fact that conversion to any religion was easy for me because I was just going through the motions at the time - my take on it was "OK so...........i'm with this girl, she's pregnant with my child and if i don't do the right thing here and marry her, she'll not be allowed with me and i'll not see my kid". So i was like........."OK what do I have to do".................get circumcised and repeat this prayer and learn a bit about islam.....easy!!! A small price to pay for a part in my childs life.

I was very clear to my soon to be wife (now ex) about the way I wanted my children brought up though.....teach them about all religions and let them choose which one they want to be when they are old enough to make the choice. Religion to me is about geography - you are generally of the religion of your locality so if born Ireland, you're most likely a Christian, if born in Pakistan you're most likely a muslim..........how one religion can say all people of the other are not going to heaven, are loved by god less, etc, is just ridiculous - you're damning whole continents!!! Anyway I lived in a muslim country for a bit and whilst there tried to learn about Islam as much as possible....................BUT after i had officially converted!! (wrong way around I know) and TBH personally so much of it doesn't sit with me..................90% of it is great (as it is with most religions) but that other 10% - issues with women, male dominated society, unquestioning devotion to its teachings, male and female genital mutilation, acceptance of violence, the world eventually being made up entirely of muslims with the black flag flying - the bit of it that incites (i don't know if its the right word) hatred/disrespect towards people of other religions just doesn't seem right to me. I read an English version of the Koran (aptly titled "An English Interpretation") and i think the fact that it was "an interpretation" didn't do it justice........it was filled with hatred towards what it called "the Israelis" however, how it could refer to them as that when the Koran is almost 1500 years old is beyond me!! Religion for me should be about tolerance, respect and love towards other people and about doing the right thing because it is the right thing to do not because you're scared of the implications it has on you or your perceived fate.
Anyway I have found myself over time disillusioned by Islam a lot and have grown distant from it............regarding my children, the bit about being able to bring them up with an open mind was crap - the ex-wife was plamassing me at the time and was never going to consent to that - no muslim ever would and I should have been smart enough to spot it.
I must add though that maybe if I was still living in an Islamic country I may feel differently about all this as I would be surrounded by it and my doubts could possibly be put to bed by talking to those around me......................being Muslim on this side of the world in a place like Ireland is very different.

Right now I don't have any religion, I class Islam as my last religion.........will i have another? I'm not sure............from my readings the only religion that makes any sense to me is Buddhism (its promotion of tolerance, love and respect) and its really more a way of life than a religion me thinks.

Apologies for the rant................suppose in some ways needed to get some of this stuff off my chest

oceanclub

rambutman wrote: »

I have had arguments when my little girl was born about not wanting her circumcised (i got my way here).

Can I ask where your wife was from, and did she intend to have the FGM performed here or abroad?

P.

rambutman

She was from Sumatra.

They perform clitoral FGM over there (i think its called sunni FGM?)

She had planned to have it done on our baby daughter over there when she brought her home with her during her first months. There was no way that was going to happen on my watch. My wife had this done when she was a baby and it (as far as I am concerned in a lot of ways) destroyed our sex life. I think an important point in my basically conceding to not having it done on my daugther was researching it thoroughly and bascally proving to her that it is not in fact a religious practice but a cultural one adopted by religious leaders and sold back to the followers as part of the religion. Islam never put forward FGM as a practice for its followers. The only reference (AFAIK) in the Koran is where Mohammed met some man taking his daughter off to get done and he said "IF YOU MUST DO IT JUST TAKE A LITTLE"...................it is purely a cultural practise. Something i think muslims in these areas are not made aware of. Where i was in Sumatra the majority of the people had not actually read the Koran, they had been taught it by the local Imam who had embellished the teachings with his own beliefs and interpretations.

Now that my daughter has moved past the stage in her life where they perform this in Indonesia (only on young baby girls) i can relax about this being performed on her. My 7 year old son being put to the blade when he goes back is my next worry. I am insistent that the only time this will happen to him is when he is old enough to permit it himself and to understand the consequences of what he is doing....................i'll have a fight on my hands though!

hivizman

There's nothing in the Qur'an requiring circumcision - the authority for male circumcision comes from hadith. Similarly, any authority for female circumcision is grounded in hadith - there are fewer hadith relating to female circumcision than to male circumcision, and they do not appear in the primary hadith collections of Bukhari and Muslim

Rambutman may be recalling a hadith reported by Abu Dawud:

"A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (peace be upon him) said to her: 'Do not cut severely because that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband'."

Abu Dawud, however, considers the transmission of this hadith to be suspect and hence regards the hadith as weak. Other hadith evidence suggests that some form of clitoral cutting was common at the time of Muhammad, and that Muhammad, while not forbidding the practice outright, endorsed symbolic cutting rather than complete excision of the clitoris.

Subsequently, the jurists took different lines. The Hanafis did not particularly encourage the practice, while the Hanbalis regarded symbolic cutting as desirable but not obligatory. The Shafi'is considered reduction (but not excision) of the clitoris as obligatory. This school had considerable influence in South East Asia, where apparently the practice of female circumcision was unknown before the coming of Islam.

To sum up, I am not aware of any Qur'anic or Prophetic authority that makes female genital mutilation obligatory, and the evidence that Muhammad supported the practice is weak.

seeing_ie

Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences Rambutman.

Of all the practices, in all religions, surely FGM is the most hateful.

Clearly a mechanism to control women and enhance men's peace of mind.

Remove the clitoris, thereby removing a lot of the pleasure from sex, therefore a woman is less likely to have sex and a husband can have increased confidence that offspring are indeed his genetic material.

Akin to the christian chastity belt imo.

On a lighter note, and without being innappropriate, no doubt your daughter will be grateful for your intervention in years to come, and all going well you'll hear nothing about it;).

rambutman

give me half a chance and i'd have my foreskin back too.............no doubt about that!!!

irishconvert

rambutman wrote: »

Islam never put forward FGM as a practice for its followers. The only reference (AFAIK) in the Koran is where Mohammed met some man taking his daughter off to get done and he said "IF YOU MUST DO IT JUST TAKE A LITTLE"...................it is purely a cultural practise. Something i think muslims in these areas are not made aware of. Where i was in Sumatra the majority of the people had not actually read the Koran, they had been taught it by the local Imam who had embellished the teachings with his own beliefs and interpretations.

Actually there is nothing in the Qur'an about it, the reference you give is from a hadith.

Irishrevert

mashallah. Its an adventure every step of the way and tests come and go. How is it living in Ireland?I am Irish and Muslim and married and the culture and differences is a test at times.