Fergie the last of the dinosaurs

patmac

I think Fergie's lost the plot and is the last of the dinosaurs, he keeps falling out with players and is costing Utd money we lost £9m on RVN a player at the top of his form and spend 16m on Carrick a slightly above average midfielder. His hairdryer style of management may have worked with the "kids" back in 95 but certainly isn't going to work with the spoilt feckers these days just look at the listless performance v Benfica, and no-one is keeping him in check. Utd are hamorreging money and when Glazer's accountants to the maths and feck of after Setanta go bust because no-one is going to pay twice for the same product then we will be fecked. I have great respect for Fergie and admired the job he has done at Old Trafford, but like some of his great players Robson, Cantona and Keane he should no when it's time to go.

fade2black

I haven't had a good argument with The Muppet in a while...I think it's time for another one....

super_furry

If he doesn't win either the League or Champions League this season, he's out and as I can't see United doing either........

Little-Devil

This his going to be his last season. We haven't won the league in 4years and we won't be challenging this year either, i think we would be lucky to get fourth spot myself:o

Rollo Tamasi

he should have left about two years ago. I'd say we could make a full team of players he has fallen out with

Bosnich
Keane
RVN
Cantona (?)
Backham
Kanchelskis
Ince
Sharpe
Stam
Yorke
Pallister (?)

wheres me jumpa

Rollo Tamasi wrote:

he should have left about two years ago. I'd say we could make a full team of players he has fallen out with

Bosnich
Keane
RVN
Cantona (?)
Backham
Kanchelskis
Ince
Sharpe
Stam
Yorke
Pallister (?)

When he sold Ince, Kanchelskis and Hughes it proved to be a master stroke. He was proved right with Bosnich, Sharpe and Yorke, none of which went on to better themselves. Stam and Beckham were mistakes.

Im not happy with Ferguson this summer but the fact is he is our manager this season at least so the Fergie should go debate is pointless.

bbbbb

Rollo Tamasi wrote:

he should have left about two years ago. I'd say we could make a full team of players he has fallen out with

Bosnich
Keane
RVN
Cantona (?)
Backham
Kanchelskis
Ince
Sharpe
Stam
Yorke
Pallister (?)

In fairness to Ferguson, he's been a discipline person from day one. Add Norman Whiteside and Paul McGrath to the list.

The Muppet

fade2black wrote:

I haven't had a good argument with The Muppet in a while...I think it's time for another one....

You know you'll lose? It's starting early this year. Let's see how the season pans out before sacking our manager or at the very least let it start.

fade2black

The Muppet wrote:

You know you'll lose?

I'm willing to give Fergie the benefit of the doubt this year. By all accounts he's been trying to bring players in but United are just not the draw they used to be for players. We don't know what goes on behind those closed doors and who was at fault for the various goings on...however, he is a stubborn fecker and I don't think there's anyone left at the club who can give it to him as good as he gives it and that would be a worry. I await this coming season with a lot of aprehension.

The Muppet

fade2black wrote:

I'm willing to give Fergie the benefit of the doubt this year. By all accounts he's been trying to bring players in but United are just not the draw they used to be for players. We don't know what goes on behind those closed doors and who was at fault for the various goings on...however, he is a stubborn fecker and I don't think there's anyone left at the club who can give it to him as good as he gives it and that would be a worry. I await this coming season with a lot of aprehension.

I couldn't argue with that even if I wanted to.

BTW I edited my last post when you were posting that one, sorry about that.

bucks73

bbbbb wrote:

Add Norman Whiteside and Paul McGrath to the list.

Those two boozers were never going to last long with him. You would never have won a league with them no matter how well McGrath played for Ireland.

I am always slow to criticise Ferguson because of what he has done but he does seem to have lost his way a little in the last few seasons. The first one out the door should be Queiroz with his 4-5-1. Bring back 4-4-2.

Also IMO the league is far more important this season and there should be no weakened teams ahead of or after CL games.

el rabitos

i think theres definitely an element of an "old school" style of management when it comes to fergie, that might have worked at a time when players werent getting paid the kind of money they are now.

nowadays a player doesnt perform, gets the hairdrier threatment, shrugs it off with the knowledge he's getting paid 40+ grand a week and goes and plays the next game.

whearas mourinho comes across as the kind of manager that instills a sence of unity within his group of players to the point of where if a player doesnt give 100% he feels like he's let the whole squad down....plus theres the fact that he can be sold and replaced in a week is a bonus

fade2black

el rabitos wrote:

i think theres definitely an element of an "old school" style of management when it comes to fergie, that might have worked at a time when players werent getting paid the kind of money they are now.

nowadays a player doesnt perform, gets the hairdrier threatment, shrugs it off with the knowledge he's getting paid 40+ grand a week and goes and plays the next game.

whearas mourinho comes across as the kind of manager that instills a sence of unity within his group of players to the point of where if a player doesnt give 100% he feels like he's let the whole squad down....plus theres the fact that he can be sold and replaced in a week is a bonus

What a crock of shit.

el rabitos

fade2black wrote:

What a crock of shit.

would you care to elaborate? or are u just going to offer nothing until someone has an arguement with u and gets banned?

jose's motivation skills are obviously working in a more effective manner than fergies right now.

i would compare how both men motivate their players in comparison to benitez and wenger but i havent got a clue how those 2 opperate, they come across as thinker men more than anything, whereas mourinho has always harped on about team unity more than most other aspects of success and fergies hairdrier threatment is pretty legendary

in recent times mourinho's tactics have proved to be the best, unless 2 premierships, a champions league and league title in portugal count as a crock of ****?

sure mourinho has all the cash to work with, but so have other managers at real and milan and other teams and not been able to control the ego's, so i dont think mourinho's achievements can be wrote off completely because of how chelsea are bankrolled

Nalz

I think el rabitos has a slight point, but tbh we dont really know how managers are with the players.

Roy Keane was right in what he said, wrong how, when and where he said it.

Stam - Fergie made a 7m profit on him when he was in his 30s. He was right to go, stooooopid what he did.

Beckham was never going to stay at the club, he always was goin to go somewhere overseas.

He didnt fall out with Pallister, and I think Cantona left for other reasons. Lee Sharpe and Bosnich were muppets.

Ince,Kanchelkis and Hughes as Jumpa stated were master strokes.

Jim Leighton was not producing and needed to go.

McGrath and Whiteside were necessary players that had to go, as was Gordan Strachan.

He's had some bad buys, more so in the last 4 years. but tbh the list above could be doubled with the bargain and class buys he had...and to do what he did in 95 with the youngsters (winning the double, the league following year and the treble 2 years after that) was absolutely fantastic.

United will be closer to Chelsea this year, the only thing is though so will Liverpool

Nalz

If Kenyon had bought Ronaldinho(coughed up that extra 3m or so) in 2003( the season were Beckham and co came back from the dead and beat Arsenal to the title),

I doubt we would be having this conversation/argument

bucks73

Trilla wrote:

United will be closer to Chelsea this year, the only thing is though so will Liverpool

Well if Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs give Chelsea a game home and away then all of them and United will be closer.

Last season United were the only one of the top 5 to take points off Chelsea. If Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs had won their home games versus Chelsea (and all other results stayed the same), Liverpool would have won the league. Thats how close things are. Its up to others to put up more of a fight against them if the title is to go elsewhere.

Nalz

bucks73 wrote:

If Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs had won their home games versus Chelsea (and all other results stayed the same), Liverpool would have won the league. Thats how close things are. Its up to others to put up more of a fight against them if the title is to go elsewhere.

Fair enough, but Chelsea lost 2 or 3 games after retaining title...it will be closer this year regardless of who Chelsea bought

Vokes

No, not really as close as you think. Chelsea lost a couple of games towards the end of the season because they took their foot off the gas since they thought they had the league wrapped up.

Edit: Snap, Trilla!

bucks73

Oh I agree it will be tighter. 18 points out of 18 against Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs is ridiculous though. Even 3 or 4 draws in there make a huge difference.

And some think United will struggle??? At least they beat them last season and looked like the only ones who could challenge.

Nalz

SofaKing wrote:

Edit: Snap, Trilla!

Great minds think a like!

So does anyone else think that there is another one or two signings left in Fergie before big kick off?

bucks73

Trilla wrote:

Great minds think a like!

So does anyone else think that there is another one or two signings left in Fergie before big kick off?

Hope so. If I was David Gill I would be on the plane to South America to sign up Mascherano and then back via Madrid to sign Torres. Spend a good chunk of the yanks dollars.:D

But oh no...hes still on his holliers. How long a holiday does he need?

mike65

Torres is staying at put it seems. I heard Fergie say yesterday that ther might be no more signings (I'm assuming he knew Carrick was in the bag) as he suggested that fans would just be happy to see last seasons walking wounded fit and firing on all cylinders (or words to that effect!). So is he letting the fanbase down gently or merely keeping his powder dry?

Mike.

Chucky the tree

If Torres is going anywhere he is going to AC Milan. Who knows about Mascherano.

Still a very smart move by Fergie to say there will be no more signing. Now the fans wont be expecting any so if a signing does happen it will be a great boost for them.

Necronomicon

bucks73 wrote:

Hope so. If I was David Gill I would be on the plane to South America to sign up Mascherano and then back via Madrid to sign Torres. Spend a good chunk of the yanks dollars.:D

But oh no...hes still on his holliers. How long a holiday does he need?

Alas, all fantasy (don't get me wrong, you'd see me doing naked cart wheels through Old Trafford if it did happen).
I reckon one, maybe two more signings but I wouldn't expect them to be world beaters. Carrick, though costly, is a good start.
Back on topic, I've disagreed with a number of things Fergie has said and done over recent years. Even though I didn't know all of the facts in his bust up with Ruud, I gave the benefit of the doubt to Van Nistelrooy because of Fergie's track record and general stubborness when he disagrees with someone. But now that Ruud is in Madrid colours, my loyalty goes right back to Fergie. As long as he remains at the helm, I'll back him.

aidan24326

patmac wrote:

I think Fergie's lost the plot and is the last of the dinosaurs, he keeps falling out with players and is costing Utd money we lost £9m on RVN a player at the top of his form and spend 16m on Carrick a slightly above average midfielder. His hairdryer style of management may have worked with the "kids" back in 95 but certainly isn't going to work with the spoilt feckers these days just look at the listless performance v Benfica, and no-one is keeping him in check. Utd are hamorreging money and when Glazer's accountants to the maths and feck of after Setanta go bust because no-one is going to pay twice for the same product then we will be fecked. I have great respect for Fergie and admired the job he has done at Old Trafford, but like some of his great players Robson, Cantona and Keane he should no when it's time to go.

Agreed. He should really have called it a day a couple of years ago. And he can take that fool Queiroz with him when he goes.

GuanYin

fade2black wrote:

What a crock of shit.

Lets try keep the level of debate above this sort of thing, ok???

PiE

Been thinking for a while now that Fergie is becoming more and more like a doddering old man.

A few years ago, whenever he gave an interview, he was full of gusto and there was conviction in everything he said. When you see him now he's much more willing to pussyfoot around the hard questions and spout meaningless phrases.

I suppose that gusto and confidence came with being so successful, and it's only natural for him to be a little less cocky these day, but it is kinda saddening to see him just tow the line now.

adox

I`m sticking with Fergie and his style as its been hugely sucessfull over the last 15 years, and although referred to as old school here,still has a place in the game.Its not as if the players have just started earning big money in the last 3-4 years thus making Fergusons style redundent.He`s managed some of the most sucessfull teams right through the most sucessfull period for English football and players alike.

With regards to his big decisions over the last few years well there are very few that I had a problem with.

Beckham had to go and I for one was glad to see the back of him at that stage.His form had dipped dramatically the two previous seasons and his work rate(which was always of a high level)had dropped to barely and effort.
The Beckham media circus was at its height and growing into a real monster that was starting to overshadow everything at Man Utd.He couldnt go quick enough for me.

Keanes time was up to.As a player he was a shadow of himself and team tactics were being compromised to try and accomadate him.It was only a matter of time before he went and perhaps he stayed half a season too long.
Also his big mouth ultimitely caught up with him.His ego and own self importance was out of control.I mean what as he thinking making those remarks?Did he really think it was his place to say it? Ferguson had no choice but to sort him out.

The one I`ve never forgivin Ferguson for was Stam.It was one of the biggest mistakes he made in his time at United.To rub salt into the wounds he never really replaced Stam(The Blanc debacle being the ultimate embarrasment both for the manager and the player).
I still haven really seen a replacement for Staam.I remember when we signed Ferdinand both Thuram and Nesta were sold by their respective clubs and we could have bought both for the price we paid for Rio.

I think Ferguson really did take his eye off the ball completely a couple of years ago with the whole horsey thing.I think a bit of complacency finally set in with him and things started to slide.

Now I think his heart is totally back in it and hes as hungry as ever.I just wonder is it all to late to turn things around?Also factor in the Chelsea money pit,the resurgence of Liverpool under Benitez,the financial situation at United,and on the face of it it looks a very difficult task.The lack of activity in the transfer market is extremely alarming as is the whole Ruud debacle.Real offering £10 million and being turned down.Ferguson insisting that he wont go for less that £15 million and then the next day Ruuds on his way to Madrid for a medical "even though a fee hasnt been agreed":rolleyes: but reports suggest Real increased their offer by £300,000! Perhaps his control within te club has diminshed significantly.On the face of it thats how it appears to me.

If Carrick is the only signing this season then I will be quite pessimistic.I`ll stick with Ferguson for the season and see how things pan out,but its glaringly obvious to me at least that the squad is seriously short in midfield and it needs addressing.Also selling the gold dust that is Ruud and not replacing him is another glaring mistake to my eyes.

Its the most pessimistic I`ve been at the start of a season for a long time,but ultimitely even if there are no more signings I`m willing to give Ferguson the benefit of the doubt and back him completely for the season ahead.For what he has done for the club over the last decade and a half its the least he deserves from any United fan.

The Muppet

^
I have to agree with 99% of that. Fergie is still putting the jigsaw together. Last season was a definite improvement on the season before , if we continue to improve while lowering the age profiles of the team it will indicate that the team is moving in the right direction for the future.

I agree Fergied had taken his eye off teh ball a alittle but Romans arrival at Chelsea has restored the challenge and rekindled Fergies passion for the job.

United fans will have to be realistic in their expectations for the next few seasons. It will be very difficult to bypass Chelsea. As long as united continue to be their main challengers and improve our performances against the rest of the league I will be happy with wherever that leaves us at the end of the season.

KdjaCL

fade2black banned for a week.

kdjac

PHB

Fergie made the current club what it is, and I have full faith in his judgement. I honastly don't believe there is any manager in the world who could do a better job at United of overcoming Mourinho's chelsea