Gardai fork out for seizing and writing off civil servant's car

Rudolph Claus

From todays indo:

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A €38,000 damages claim against gardai who seized and then wrote off a car was settled for an undisclosed sum in the Circuit Civil Court yesterday.

The settlement was announced shortly after Justice Esmond Smyth said that very serious issues arose from the incident. He had asked whether An Garda Siochana had conducted an internal investigation into the matter and was told it had not.

He was shown photographs taken by the car's owner, Joanne McCullagh, of tyre skid-marks at the scene of the crash. Ms McCullagh took the pictures after being told that Gda Fogarty, of Bridewell Garda Station, who was driving the car away at the time, had claimed that the car's brakes had failed.

Ms McCullagh, a civil servant who works in the Motor Taxation Office in Dublin, had claimed that the gardai had wrongly seized her car, driven it violently, crashed it, unlawfully impounded it and failed to return it or compensate her for it.

She told her counsel, David Conlan-Smyth, that a number of gardai at the car pound seemed to find the crash hilarious and had attempted to stop her taking photographs of her smashed car.

Justice Smyth said Ms McCullagh's Honda Integra had been validly insured for her and her partner Robert Semple to drive. It had valid tax, NCT and insurance certificates displayed on the windscreen when it was stopped.

Ms McCullagh, of Balcurris Road, Ballymun, Dublin, said Mr Semple had set off for work in her car at 8am on December 13, 2004. Shortly afterwards, he rang and asked her to bring his driving licence and the insurance certificate for a garda who had stopped him in Queen Street, Dublin.

She said she was there with the documents within 15 minutes, only to find Robert standing alone, with no car and no gardai.

She then found out that the garda had seized the car, claiming that he did not have time to wait, and it had been crashed into a bollard around the corner.

Ms McCullagh said she had bought a camera and taken pictures of the crash scene and her smashed car. At the car pound, gardai in charge had pushed her "out the door" and asked her to leave when she took photographs.

Other gardai had turned up and she felt they were laughing while looking at the car. None of them would talk to her.

She identified Gda Fogarty, who stood up in court, as the garda who had told her partner that the brakes had failed. He had been standing rubbing his back after the accident. Robert had seen skid marks and she had photographed them.

Ms McCullagh said she was not contacted by gardai until about three months after the car crash. A garda had arrived at her front door at 11pm one night. A jacket covered his uniform and the identity numbers on his shoulders. He refused to give his name and she told him to contact her solicitor.

When he left, she had seen a garda squad car partly hidden behind a hoarding around the corner.

The case was settled and struck out, with an order for Ms McCullagh's legal costs. Ms Mc Cullagh had sued the minister for €38,000, including aggravated and exemplary damages.

Rudolph Claus

Absolute disgraceful,,, and they`re the useless dopey cnuts whom half are on provisional licenses telling people how to drive. Pack of useless ****. its a well known fact that half the gardai force are dopes with barely a leaving cert and joined up because they are too useless to do actual work like apprenticeships, too braindead to study for professional jobs and then join the guards thinking its an easy government job. Just goes to show us all what spa`s they really are. Pity the cnut wasnt killed in it!

mike65

*Boggles*

Mike.

Steffano2002

That's an unbelievable story! :eek: My God... No wonder I find it harder and harder to persuade people most Gards are good, professional people (this is my honest opinion - every time I had to deal with the Garda myself everything went well)! I'm hearing so many horror stories such as these lately! I didn't believe them at first but the more I think about it...

Anyway, I'm glad Ms McCullagh got everything sorted!

Steffano2002

Nuttzy wrote:

Absolute disgraceful,,, and they`re the useless dopey cnuts whom half are on provisional licenses telling people how to drive. Pack of useless ****. its a well known fact that half the gardai force are dopes with barely a leaving cert and joined up because they are too useless to do actual work like apprenticeships, too braindead to study for professional jobs and then join the guards thinking its an easy government job. Just goes to show us all what spa`s they really are. Pity the cnut wasnt killed in it!

So I take it you don't like them that much then? Last comment was a little harsh IMO... My local Garda station is in fact the Bridewell station and every time I had to ring them (for alarms going off and people breaking into my flat while I'm in it and braking the door leaving me prisoner!) they were quick to deal with it! I'll say it again, they're not all bad...

RuggieBear

bloody hell.

Vegeta

Steffano2002 wrote:

I'll say it again, they're not all bad...

but there are enough tossers in the garda to ruin it for the honest decent ones

The tax man

Gobshítes.:rolleyes:

rondeco

Nuttzy wrote:

Absolute disgraceful,,, and they`re the useless dopey cnuts whom half are on provisional licenses telling people how to drive. Pack of useless ****. its a well known fact that half the gardai force are dopes with barely a leaving cert and joined up because they are too useless to do actual work like apprenticeships, too braindead to study for professional jobs and then join the guards thinking its an easy government job. Just goes to show us all what spa`s they really are. Pity the cnut wasnt killed in it!

Jeez, crack one out man, it'll relax you a bit.

mike65

I think Nuttzy has "issues".

Just goes to show us all what spa`s they really are. Pity the cnut wasnt killed in it!

And is prone to sweeping statements


Mike

junkyard

I think the idea of the Police policing themselves is not acceptable tbh. There are enough stories of them covering up for themselves as we can see in the papers every day almost. I'm surprised the good cops let this happen as they all get branded when this kind of crap happens. Bottom line is that the taxpayer foots the bill for this not the cop who f**ked up. There should be some kind of fine or penalty imposed on the cop involved, in fairness if it was a Joe Soap who did this he'd be in jail of would have had to pay for the damage himself.

unkel

junkyard wrote:

I think the idea of the Police policing themselves is not acceptable tbh

And in this case it was worse, they didn't even police themselves (no internal investigation). That is not acceptable. Wonder if the judge mentioned this and if not, why not?

Steffano2002

Vegeta wrote:

but there are enough tossers in the garda to ruin it for the honest decent ones

Unfortunately you are right...

Steffano2002

junkyard wrote:

I think the idea of the Police policing themselves is not acceptable tbh. There are enough stories of them covering up for themselves as we can see in the papers every day almost. I'm surprised the good cops let this happen as they all get branded when this kind of crap happens. Bottom line is that the taxpayer foots the bill for this not the cop who f**ked up. There should be some kind of fine or penalty imposed on the cop involved, in fairness if it was a Joe Soap who did this he'd be in jail of would have had to pay for the damage himself.

Couldn't agree more with you there junkyard! If nobody is policing the Police they are in fact, above the law! Scary thought...

the_syco

Nuttzy wrote:

Absolute disgraceful,,, and they`re the useless dopey cnuts whom half are on provisional licenses telling people how to drive. Pack of useless ****. its a well known fact that half the gardai force are dopes with barely a leaving cert and joined up because they are too useless to do actual work like apprenticeships, too braindead to study for professional jobs and then join the guards thinking its an easy government job. Just goes to show us all what spa`s they really are. Pity the cnut wasnt killed in it!

Oh, look, someone who hasn't a clue what a Gardai has to learn, and who proberly thinks that every Gardai should somehow remember every law ever written.

The "good cops" will do their job, and avoid the "bad cops", and avoid cleaning up their mess.

The tax man

I think the idea of the Police policing themselves is not acceptable tbh. There are enough stories of them covering up for themselves as we can see in the papers every day almost. I'm surprised the good cops let this happen as they all get branded when this kind of crap happens. Bottom line is that the taxpayer foots the bill for this not the cop who f**ked up. There should be some kind of fine or penalty imposed on the cop involved, in fairness if it was a Joe Soap who did this he'd be in jail of would have had to pay for the damage himself.

Was thinking the same myself. We,the tax payer will foot the bill and no mention of any action taken against the person at fault. One rule for them and another for us. My respect for the Gardai is slowly disappearing.

Guy:Incognito

Nuttzy wrote:

Justice Smyth said Ms McCullagh's Honda Integra had been validly insured for her and her partner Robert Semple to drive. It had valid tax, NCT and insurance certificates displayed on the windscreen when it was stopped.

Ms McCullagh, of Balcurris Road, Ballymun, Dublin, said Mr Semple had set off for work in her car at 8am on December 13, 2004. Shortly afterwards, he rang and asked her to bring his driving licence and the insurance certificate for a garda who had stopped him in Queen Street, Dublin.

ot but anyone else take this to mean the car is owned and insured by her but permenantly driven by him for cheap insurance?

just me? oh well.



I could understand the gard crashing a siezed car. Everyone is prone to have a crash, unfortunately sometimes it happens when your driving someone elses. The treatment after wasnt on tho.

junkyard wrote:

I think the idea of the Police policing themselves is not acceptable tbh. There are enough stories of them covering up for themselves as we can see in the papers every day almost. I'm surprised the good cops let this happen as they all get branded when this kind of crap happens. Bottom line is that the taxpayer foots the bill for this not the cop who f**ked up. There should be some kind of fine or penalty imposed on the cop involved, in fairness if it was a Joe Soap who did this he'd be in jail of would have had to pay for the damage himself.

What job doesnt have people covering for each other? It's a fact of life that people look out for themselves and their friends when possible,

junkyard

They are Guards you know, I thought they of all people would be above board, i.e. wouldn't tolerate any messing, even among they're own ranks.

Guy:Incognito

junkyard wrote:

They are Guards you know, I thought they of all people would be above board, i.e. wouldn't tolerate any messing, even among they're own ranks.

While they may be guards, they are also normal people. They are the same person they were 5 mins before putting on a uniform. Personnally I've used whatever jobs I've had for any advantages I could get.

Steffano2002

Stekelly wrote:

While they may be guards, they are also normal people. They are the same person they were 5 mins before putting on a uniform. Personnally I've used whatever jobs I've had for any advantages I could get.

And you are proud of that?

You really think it's normal if people in a position of power act this way towards this woman?

And so what if she was insured so that her husband could drive for cheaper? Has it become illegal lately?

A Guard, IMO, should never crash a seized car. Careful now, I said "crash" not "have an accident". Accidents happen... In this particular case the Guard driving that Integra lost control of the vehicle and crashed, probably because he was driving like a miniac. If the story about the brakes was true they wouldn't have settled out of court.

Your attitude towards this issue is quite appalling IMO Stekelly... Thinking it's alright for a Gard to crash a seized car and then thinking it's normal if Gards cover themselves. Purely dishonest. I hope you are not a Guard yourself and that you never find yourself in a position of power...

Hotblack Desiato

Stekelly wrote:

I could understand the gard crashing a siezed car. Everyone is prone to have a crash, unfortunately sometimes it happens when your driving someone elses. The treatment after wasnt on tho.

And seizing the car wasn't on either. Some guard who should have known better either had a rush of blood to the head or fancied a wee joyride in an Integra (probably the latter). He then hit a bollard on moving off, but left the scene of the accident (illegal!) instead of allowing the driver of the car to inspect the damage. He then got his collagues to cover up for him and no proper investigation (never mind consquences) seem to have taken place.

We can all make mistakes, but a decent person admits them and tries to put them right instead of hiding behind a uniform or badge.

An absolute disgrace. In any reputable police force that garda would be out of a job.

Guy:Incognito

Steffano2002 wrote:

And so what if she was insured so that her husband could drive for cheaper? Has it become illegal lately?

Seeing as you bring it up. Your insurance is (at the insurers discretion) void if you lie on your application. The named driver being the main driver is grounds for them refuseing to pay out. It's the same as a 17 year old driving around on a car insured in his mothers name.

Steffano2002

Stekelly wrote:

Seeing as you bring it up. Your insurance is (at the insurers discretion) void if you lie on your application. The named driver being the main driver is grounds for them refuseing to pay out. It's the same as a 17 year old driving around on a car insured in his mothers name.

Do you know for a fact her partner was the main driver of the vehicle? How do you know he was only a named driver?

sullivk

IMO the guards were totally in the wrong. Seizing the car was wrong, crashing the car was wrong and covering up for the guard in question was wrong...Its just not acceptable!! For example, I am a student nurse. we hav it drilled in2 our heads everyday the importance of accountability. If I were to give a patient the wrong medicine accidently I would not expect any1 2 cover 4 me, and nobody would because it is extremely unprofessional! It is my responsibility to ensure my patients are cared for and recieve the correct meds etc... It was the guards responsibility 2 ensure this lady's car did not get damaged, it was in his possession when the damage was done. I find it unbelievable that an investigation was not set up to assertain the reason/cause of the damage.

anyway, im rambling...but u get my point...(i hope!!)

Wishbone Ash

sullivk wrote:

, I am a student nurse. If I were to give a patient the wrong medicine accidently I would not expect any1 2 cover 4 me,

AFAIK You may only administer medication under the supervision of a registered nurse. If you were to give someone the wrong medication, the registered nurse would be held responsible.

Victor

Stekelly wrote:

ot but anyone else take this to mean the car is owned and insured by her but permenantly driven by him for cheap insurance?

No. There is no evidence at all of your suggestion.

I could understand the gard crashing a siezed car. Everyone is prone to have a crash, unfortunately sometimes it happens when your driving someone elses. The treatment after wasnt on tho.

I would have though the usual thing for impounded cars would be to have them towed.

What job doesnt have people covering for each other? It's a fact of life that people look out for themselves and their friends when possible,

Sure for a minor indiscretion - "being naughty". Interfering with evidence for a court case is another matter.

Wishbone Ash wrote:

AFAIK You may only administer medication under the supervision of a registered nurse. If you were to give someone the wrong medication, the registered nurse would be held responsible.

Both would be responsible. the trainee for not following instructions and the supervisor for inadequate supervision.

Rudolph Claus

If the story about the brakes was true they wouldn't have settled out of court.

Surely if therewere skid marks the brakes didnt fail. That was just the guard lying(shock :rolleyes: ) to cover up his unlawful joyriding.

Seeing as you bring it up. Your insurance is (at the insurers discretion) void if you lie on your application. The named driver being the main driver is grounds for them refuseing to pay out. It's the same as a 17 year old driving around on a car insured in his mothers name.

What the fcuk are you talking about. Most wifes and husbands have their insurance policies set-up so that they can drive each others cars. Have you a problem with that? jealous you cant afford a decent car or something? If they`re married i assume they are both over 25 so i doubt he`d be saving much by being a main diver scenario.

The guards are indefensible in this case, if you cant see that your a dope like them. The new batch of guards and young ones have a sneery attitude towards all the public, even genuine decent citizens which we further see from this case where they were laughing at her when she tried to take pictures and see her car. That guard in this case is nothing better than a dirty skangery scumbag that robs cars and crashes them and leaves the scene lauging. like i said, its a pity the cnut wasnt killed or at least pemanently injured. the country doesnt need useless guards like him policing our people.

Wishbone Ash

Victor wrote:

I would have though the usual thing for impounded cars would be to have them towed.

They usually only tow vevicles that are crashed or where they don't have access to a key. Vehicles that are taken from drunk drivers are also usually driven away. Even when they confiscate articulated trucks, they put out a request over the radio for a Garda with a C+E licence.

gyppo

Just been looking through the posts on this thread, and some of the sweeping derogatory statements made about the guards by foul-mouthed morons sicken me. There are good people and bad in all walks of life, and in all professions, and to dismiss 12000 other guards as a "pack of ****" based on the actions of a minority speaks volumes for these posters ability for logical arguement.

Anyone that wishes the death or maiming of another person is a sad sick individual with some serious issues.

Yes, there appears to be little doubt in this incident that the guards involved were wrong. And yes, they royally screwed up in other cases too - Abbeylara, Co. Longford comes to mind. But, many posters in forums such as this forget about all the positive things that they do day in, day out, and very few hears anything about them.

Btw, I do agree with other posts regarding that there should be a police ombudsman service.

Wishbone Ash

gyppo wrote:

to dismiss 12000 other guards as a "pack of ****" based on the actions of a minority speaks volumes for these posters ability for logical arguement.

Anyone that wishes the death or maiming of another person is a sad sick individualwith some serious issues.

Hear, hear. They are so brave hiding behind their anonymity. :rolleyes:

mike65

If any of the dissenters on this thread found a skanger in thier house who would they call I wonder?

Mike.