Is Carlos Tevez coming to europe?

Rikand

confirmed on BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/5235160.stm

and here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/w/west_ham_utd/5301068.stm

galwaydude

They have signed on permanent deals.Wow how the hell can WH afford them. There is definately something fishy to stop them from signing for Man Utd and Arsenal.

In saying that will these two now mean west ham can dream of champions league football next season. I seriously believe they can now.

My bro will be delighted as he is a west ham fan. Only west ham i know haha.

leninbenjamin

this is one of the most bizarre things to have happened in the modern game methinks.

now where's Charlie Bird when you need him?

Bounty Hunter

teletext says its a done deal and permanent which makes nosense unless that company that owntheir contract now owns WHU or something equally crazy happened

JPA

It's something to do with Kia Joorbachian that's for sure. He wants to buy West Ham, trying to butter them up the right way. Dodgy out anyway.

Cutie18Ireland

Can't wait to see what price they got them for or where they got the money for it.

Paul Tergat

v v v v dodgy deals, bet they get them on the cheap and move em on in 2 years at huge price! New owners of West Ham (a certain MSI) will probably be in place soon...cue some sort of FIFA investigation

~Rebel~

---

Carroll/Green

Paintsil---Ferdinand--Gabbidon---Konchesky

Benayoun--Reo Coker--Mascherano--Bowyer/Etherington/Mullins

---

Tevez---Ashton/Harewood/Zamora/Cole

That team is potentially good enough to beat anyone in the premiership!

JPA

Cutie18Ireland wrote:

Can't wait to see what price they got them for or where they got the money for it.

They didn't get the money for them. They were signed for West Ham but not by West Ham. IMO anyway.

~Rebel~

Come to think of it this is basically the same as what MSI did for Corinthians. Came to a club with little or no money and said we'll sort you out, dont ask questions and brought all the south american talent to them.

http://stateofthegame.co.uk/2006/01/20/the-long-arm-of-the-lawless


An interesteding few weeks ahead id say..

event

MSI technically own the players

so they sell them to WH for say, 5 million

then, in a few years if/when the players are sold, MSI take 90% of the transfer fee of something like that

thats how i understand how it works

iregk

This has got to be the most f**ked up transfer ever and I say that as a Chelsea fan!!!!

What the hell is going on here. Ok loan deals I could cope with and understand but permanent deals. There is deff something rotten in the state of denmark here!

Andrew 83

Let's not forget that with these two players Corinthians are bottom of the Brazilian league. They're class but won't make a team.

Chucky the tree

MSI will probaly be using this as a way to buy west ham.

LegacyUser

What in the name of **** is going on?

BossArky

BBC radio 5 live are currently interviewing a guy from MSI, log on and listen quickly. Google the website where you can listen.

This is a deadly bit of excitement by the way! West Ham for the league!

mike65

MSI chap denies they 'own' the players. They turned down 30 mill offers he says, the players will be sold-on at some point for a profit to a CL club reckons the Five Live pundit.

Mike.

ButcherOfNog

Fair play to West Ham, however it came about. Should make for a more interesting season, glad pool have already beaten them in the league

Cyrus

some people think chelsea are involved, get them settled in london, season experience and then move to chelsea

its a bad state of affairs when a company owns players tho

Chucky the tree

why wouldnt chelsea just buy them now and the long out for a season if thats the plan?

MSI are doing this to smooth over a deal to buy the club.

Marcais

Very bizzare but a lot of these top names on one season loans don't produce.

Dr Galen

one only has to look at Veron and Crespo to see players who didn't work out in EPL. Saying that thought all the best to West Ham, I've always had a soft spot for them so hopefully they'll do ok this year with 2 world class players added.

As for the Chelsea influence, I'm not so sure. Roman has money etc but looking at Italy and the scandal there, its only too obvious that any wrong doing will be found out and punished. I'd say the EPL won't be as longwinded and lenient in their investigations as Serie A etc. I'd say its all MSI's doing. I'd agree a bid for WHU will be forthcoming in the next while, didn't they bid last year? As they own the players rights, doesn't that mean that WHU could have paid nothing for the 2 of them and had them "gifted" to the team? Mut check FIFA regulations for this and its legality..........

iregk

I have to agree with chucky here. If Chelsea were involved they would have just bought them and loaned them out for a season!

It makes no sence to me this whole thing and is very bizarre. What amazes me is the way the media is so quick to point the finger at Chelsea and Roman even though it appears they have nothing what so ever to do with it!

LegacyUser

Marcais wrote:

Very bizzare but a lot of these top names on one season loans don't produce.

West Ham have signed them on permanent deals...they all thought it was one year loan but it isn't.

~Rebel~

iregk wrote:

I have to agree with chucky here. If Chelsea were involved they would have just bought them and loaned them out for a season!

Was thinkin about this, and what i was thinkin is, if chelsea bought them now and loaned them and they werent a success then thats a huge amount of money wasted ( i know they're not to afraid of that but there still has to be some business sense going on).

If MSI/west ham own them and they flop, chelsea dont lose a penny. Why would MSI do this? Maybe its a gamble that if they are a success Chelsea will give 60 or 80million or something instead of the 40 or so they'd get from any other club.

Maybe.

Revelation Joe

According to Pardew, the chairman told him there was an opportunity to
sign Tevez & Mascherano, which implies they were offered to WH rather
than the club made an inquiry.

We've all heard the Chelsea/Abramovich rumour...personally, I think if
Chelsea wanted them, they'd have bought them and if necessary, loaned
them out to give them experience in the PL

Maybe offers came to them from Chelsea and United. They felt either
weren't ready to play for one of the biggest clubs in Europe
(Ronaldinho went to PSG before the goldfish bowl of the Nou Camp), they
felt they might just be bench warmers (unlikley I know!) or they saw
what happened to Crespo, Kleberson, Veron etc...

But I think we have to go with the idea that it's all linked to a deal
for MSI to take over the club. Whether this is a good or bad thing, who
knows? But I *do* know that I cannot wait to see these two in our
(West Ham) kit at our ground, and even if turns out to be just for a season,
if they perform as we know they can, it'll be fantastic for all Hammers fans.

This has just appeared on the official website:
http://www.whufc.com/articles/article.php?page_id=8250

Del

therecklessone

mike65 wrote:

MSI chap denies they 'own' the players. They turned down 30 mill offers he says, the players will be sold-on at some point for a profit to a CL club reckons the Five Live pundit.

Mike.

I don't get this...

They turned down £30m offers, and let them go to West Ham?

West Ham either paid £30m+ for them, paid a lot less with a huge sell on clause added to the contract, or have agreed some form of shared ownership of the players with MSI.

I just don't see how MSI can make more money unless they've an interest in the resale of the players, and have agreed conditions under which the players will be sold. Which means the Bingo Club could be up a creek without a paddle come next Summer if MSI seek to profit from their assets.

TheMonster

therecklessone wrote:

I don't get this...

They turned down £30m offers, and let them go to West Ham?

West Ham either paid £30m+ for them, paid a lot less with a huge sell on clause added to the contract, or have agreed some form of shared ownership of the players with MSI.

I just don't see how MSI can make more money unless they've an interest in the resale of the players, and have agreed conditions under which the players will be sold. Which means the Bingo Club could be up a creek without a paddle come next Summer if MSI seek to profit from their assets.

So do West Ham decide what happens them or not? Doubt it!! I am sure the truth will come out but don't be surprised to see them at CSKA London next year, if they do well of course

TheMonster

From UnitedRant website -

What's that stink? After 15 pints of Old Fukelbrau it might do a man good to cut loose but for once it's not the vomit-stained Uncle RANT, passed out in the corner of the bunker, who is making us wretch. This time it's the smell of death that hangs in the air - football 1863 - 2006 RIP, we salute you. A vile stench brought to bare by the 'signings' of Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascherano, not by one of the glamour clubs of Europe but by lowly West Ham United. The pair, who both had excellent World Cups and are two of the brightest South American talents in world football, should have commanded a combined fee of more than £45m. Yet West Ham, millions of pounds in debt, and with little chance of challenging for any honours have apparently pulled off a coup and signed the pair on "permanent" contracts.

The truth of course is that the pair have done nothing of the sort. In fact West Ham has pimped itself out, becoming one more in a long line of CSKA London whores, taking the rouble firmly from the rear. The pair's contracts have been owned since 2004 by Media Sports International, a shadowy organisation headed by their mysterious President, Kai Koobichan. MSI has become the very public backers of bankrupt Brazilian outfit Corinthians, who went on a $100m spending spree including the aforementioned Argentineans and a raft of other stars.

The investment for that lavish spending comes, of course, from Roman Abramovich, as RANT reported 18 months ago. Although the evidence for that link is strong, it is likely to only ever be anecdotal with a web of companies and paper hiding the truth. While FIFA regulations prevent the majority ownership of two clubs by one individual or company CSKA London has gone about buying influence and pooling talent in a secretive but far more dangerous way. Let there be no doubt that should Tevez and Mascherano's stints at West Ham be successful that they will be crossing London for pastures Blue in the not too distant future.

It's the logical extension of the policy already adopted by the West London outfit. Namely recruiting feeder clubs around the globe and dumping young players at those clubs until they reach the required standard or attain the appropriate number of caps to receive a British work permit. Abromovich's former company SIBFNET even 'sponsored' CSKA Moscow to the tune of £30m per season; a king's ransom in Russia. Chelsea then 'bought' Czech international Jiri Jarosik from the club shortly afterwards... and Wagner Love joined Corinthians. Where there's ****, there's a pretty bad smell.

Further evidence for what is in store for the two Argentineans, should it really be needed, comes from the laughable 'unveiling' of the players in a statement from Hammers spokesperson Phil Hall. In the same breath as lauding their signings Hall went on to claim that: "There is no way West Ham would act as a feeder club for others," forgetting that the Hammers have already sold Lampard, Cole and Johnson to CSKA Moscow in recent times. "These are exciting signings for us but, of course, if we were offered major fees for the players we would have to consider it," Hall bleated. A purchase and a sale in one sentence - nice work Phil.

In reality of course the pair will leave West Ham as soon as it is convenient for their suitors across town in West London to take them - possibly as early as summer 2007. Or are we to believe that West Ham have lured two of the world's greatest talents to their club ahead of United, Barcelona, Real Madrid and A.C. Milan? Yeah, right.

The 'purchases' will finally put to bed the tiresome speculation surrounding the players possible transfer to United. It was never on the cards. CSKA London was never likely to allow their sale to Old Trafford. Indeed, the only surprise is that the destination of choice for the next year is West Ham rather than any of the other satellites of Stamford Bridge including PSV Eindhoven and CSKA Moscow. Acclimatisation to the Premiership should be the buzzword of choice.

But the really pain in all of this ought not to be felt by the players' other suitors but by the football community generally. The dynamic in football has changed dramatically, whereby CSKA London is able not only to buy whomever they like for their immediate needs with large sums of Russian laundered cash but for the future too. Pooling young players until their talent comes to fruition so that they cannot be claimed by rivals.

If the club's actions surrounding the transfer of John Obi Mikel were immoral, bordering on the illegal, then their probable involvement in the transfer of Mascherano and Tevez to West Ham signals the death of football. For without competition on or off the pitch what is left but a fantasy football fan's wet dream?

Jivin Turkey

TheMonster how can you even read that one-eyed garbage?

To sum it all up I'll quote one bit -

"Although the evidence for that link is strong, it is likely to only ever be anecdotal with a web of companies and paper hiding the truth."

JPA

So basically MSI own the players.
They wanted £25 million/€35 million/$40 million, whatever.
No club would offer this and MSI thought that is probably because their profile is not high enough.
They've only ever been seen playing for Argentina and very little for Corinthians.
So MSI need to raise the players profile somehow.
They sell them/give them to West Ham.
One or two seasons later after performing outstandingly in the Premiership, some team, perhaps Chelsea will bid for them and MSI get the money they wanted.
West Ham win and MSI win. I don't believe Abramovich is as involved as people think. Kia Joorbachian is a rich man in his own right.

iregk

I cannot believe The Monster posted that. Such vile, putred crap that can only stem from that site. Even the united fans in here don't read the rubbish thats on there.

CSKA London, how 2004 of them! I take it they graduated there from using Chelski?

~Rebel~

but as it is they've turned down moves of 30+ million

Revelation Joe

TheMonster wrote:

From UnitedRant website -In the same breath as lauding their signings Hall went on to claim that: "There is no way West Ham would act as a feeder club for others," forgetting that the Hammers have already sold Lampard, Cole and Johnson to CSKA Moscow in recent times. "These are exciting signings for us but, of course, if we were offered major fees for the players we would have to consider it," Hall bleated. A purchase and a sale in one sentence - nice work Phil.

What a load of cobblers!
Lampard left after his Dad and his Uncle had been sacked. Cole and Johnson left after the club had been relegated to the Championship. All three were products of the WHU youth scheme and were not bought to sell on, which is what is being implied with the Mascherano & Tevez signings.
West Ham have *always* had to sell to buy. A lot of players have come through the ranks at UP and have gone to pastures new and a lot of players have been bought by WHU and then sold on. We sold Bobby Moore to Fulham in 1975, were we a feeder club for them? We sold Sinclair & Wanchope to Man. City, were we a feeder club for them? Transfers happen in football!

Del

JPA

~Rebel~ wrote:

but as it is they've turned down moves of 30+ million

Well I just plucked my figures from thin air. MSI probably beleive that these players will become two of the best in the world and are looking for some insane fees for them. Added to this the fact that they probably control all the image rights for these 2 players and they're going to make some serious profit.

Revelation Joe

A vile stench brought to bare by the 'signings' of Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascherano, not by one of the glamour clubs of Europe but by lowly West Ham United. The pair, who both had excellent World Cups and are two of the brightest South American talents in world football, should have commanded a combined fee of more than £45m. Yet West Ham, millions of pounds in debt, and with little chance of challenging for any honours have apparently pulled off a coup and signed the pair on "permanent" contracts

I'll just say:
Tottenham Hotpsur, 1978, World Cup winners Ricardo Villa and Osvaldo Ardiles and Spurs were either in Div 2 or just promoted to Div 1 at the time!

Del

eirebhoy

nurse_baz wrote:

one only has to look at Veron and Crespo to see players who didn't work out in EPL. Saying that thought all the best to West Ham, I've always had a soft spot for them so hopefully they'll do ok this year with 2 world class players added.

Crespo did well in the premiership but Veron is a different type of player to Mascherano or Tevez. He didn't get stuck in and was a bit of a luxury. Tevez is a striker and runs after every ball and likes to get stuck in. I've no doubt Tevez will suit the premiership.

dannyd20

some of the comments in this thread are absolutely ludicrous - here's an article which shows the range of speculation regarding these transfers.

www.squarefootball.net wrote:

There is an element of jealousy in much of the reporting on the transfers of Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascherano from Conrinthians to West Ham United. Supporters of the 'elite' clubs cannot believe that players of this quality can have signed for mid-table West Ham. Obviously the fear for many of these fans is that West Ham will suddenly become a top four club - with Arsenal currently the most vulnerable of the four.

Alan Pardew has said that the first that he knew about the deals was when his Chairman, Terry Brown, told him that the players were available to West Ham on Monday 28 August - when most of the media first found out that the players were being touted around, and then simply guessed at the obvious big name clubs. It seems that West Ham was the first choice all along.

The Guardian (01.09.06) report that the deal involves little outlay by West Ham, but that both players are available for £35m and the majority of any transfer fee would subsequently return to Media Sports Investments (MSI) as a 'sell-on' fee. So the biggest downside that anyone can find is that two world class players will play for West Ham unless they prove to be so good that clubs are forced to pay more money for either of the players than Rooney, Shevchenko or Ronaldinho were recently worth. And into the bargain West Ham will pick up a few million.

Wow, what a downside for West Ham - brilliant players for now and millions in compensation later if someone covers the vast transfer fees.

Conspiracy Theory 1: Chelsea are behind this

The easiest accusation that can be levelled is that the pair are not ready for Chelsea - but Chelsea cannot afford them to go to Liverpool, Manchester United or Arsenal. Given that there were reported talks between the players' representatives and both United and Arsenal only adds fuel to the fire. Were Chelsea worried about rivals recruiting and wanted to 'pay back' Arsenal over the Cole squabbling?

This morning Chelsea fans can console themselves with the theory that the players have been 'parked' at West Ham and available for transfer at £35m each. The kind of price that only Chelsea can afford in world football means that the players can improve elsewhere until they can improve Chelsea.

Conspiracy Theory 2: MSI are about to buy West Ham

Kia Joorabchian who runs MSI last year tabled a £90m bid to buy West Ham, which was rejected. But it is interesting that a club that was forced to sell its best players and was mired in debt three or four years ago, has been able to recruit quite freely since MSI's bid. Late last night West Ham also tried to sign Brazilian international full-back, Cicinho - but were rebuffed by Real Madrid.

According to The Independent (01.09.06) 'West Ham are now set for a takeover bid from Iranian investor Kia Joorabchian, the president of MSI', so there could be big money backing West Ham and as Chelsea have proved big money and a good manager gets you the title. West Ham for the title - is it really more unlikely than Blackburn Rovers winning the league ten years ago?

Conspiracy Theory 3: MSI will dictate when they play

Many people have been quick to suggest that the pair won't play against Chelsea, or they won't play in the UEFA Cup - because this may (in some way) damage their marketability. The theory being that the pair are being lined up for the January sales already. This seems a bit silly because for any team to pay £35m for either of them in January they will have had to shown world beating form against the top teams ie in Europe and against Chelsea, Manchester United etc.

This one is easily solved. West Ham play Palermo on 14 September (which might be a bit soon), and on the 28th, as well as Chelsea on 18 November. If the pair play in these games then MSI are clearly taking a back seat.

Conspiracy Theory 4: Boris Berezovsky is playing games

Berezovsky is another Russian Billionaire who was reputedly a business partner to many of the potential players here at different time - Roman Abramovich and Kia Joorabchian specifically. But some theories suggest that Berezovsky controls MSI and has fallen out with Abramovich - fallen out to such an extent that he is prepared to lavish tens of millions on getting back at the Chelsea owner.

Perhaps this is similar, but on a different scale, to when Sir Alex Ferguson fell out with 'The Coolmore Mafia' over Rock of Gibraltar - hell hath no fury than a rich man after falling out over money?

As conspiracies go it is fairly weak, how many rich men throw away cash to hurt other rich men? Most rich men appear to be more concerned with becoming increasingly rich than they are with squandering money on petty rivalries.

Choose your conspiracy theories well because they will be overtaken by events. None of the four clubs who expect to challenge for the title (who can use the expression 'big four' with any certainty now) can feel comfortable with a club newly arrived in the elite. For much of the 1990s Arsenal and Manchester United were on top, then Liverpool and Chelsea found the money to challenge them. Now Spurs (despite a couple of hiccups) are threatening to move in. If West Ham through contacts or ownership can get the kind of players that would stroll into every club side in the world then they really are a player. This season is too early for a title tilt, but as the theories fade will we be left with a new force in English football? That really will be good for football fans tired of the domination by the same old teams.

thebaz

West Ham are now in takeover talks , must be with MSI , who tried to buy them before , and also owned Tevez and Javier Mascherano -- its begining to come together -- anyway wish the Hammers well .

Bounty Hunter

has anyone heard any reaction from Corintians and there usually quite vocal support? surely they must be extremly annoyed that their two best players were given to a club that would usually not be able to afford one of them,yet there is nothing about the Brazillian reaction in any of the numorous stories on this. This is esp surprising as MSI are reported as being in talks to takeover WHU,the team they gave Tevesand Maschereno to seeming with nothing as compensation for Corinthians.

Personally i think if we find out the exact nature of MSI's deal with Corinthians we will know what they may be intending for WHU.

MrJoeSoap

My take on the whole situation is that West Ham are a shop window. MSI owns the players contracts, and gave the players to West Ham for a certain period of time (I doubt it will be more than a season) for free, but will take a vast majority or all of the transfer fee they command after that spell.

I don't think there is any immediate connection with another club, but obviously Chelsea/a.n.other big club will be interested if the two players do well.

Revelation Joe

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/w/west_ham_utd/5311618.stm

Reports claim that Tevez and Mascherano were offered to Chelsea, Arsenal, Sevilla and Roma but they baulked at the asking price.
Portsmouth were also said to have been given the opportunity of a similar deal to West Ham but declined.
It was also revealed on Sunday that Manchester United had been offered the pair but were not interested

So one in the eye for UnitedRant

From the same article:

Reports claim the Hammers are contractually obliged to start with the pair, who signed from Brazilian club Corinthians last week, if they are fit.
"That is categorically untrue," Hammers spokesman Phil Hall told BBC Sport.
"And it is completely manager Alan Pardew's shout as to whether he picks these two players."
Businessman Kia Joorabchian, who engineered the transfers of both players from Corinthians, was quoted in the Guardian as saying: "There is no clause for them to play or not to play.
"That is totally the manager's choice. If Alan doesn't think they are good enough to play any game, or for tactical reasons, then that is his choice."

And from Tevez himself:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/w/west_ham_utd/5308600.stm

Del