Virgin at 28 - help!

Spitfire666

I'll most likely get flammed for this but so what, you shouldnt be worried about what some guy will think because although imo guys dont think its a "gift", i do think alot would be happy with it because they won't be woundering how many guys you have been with or wont be worried about how good they are compared to other guys youve been with.

And as you dont seem to be of the "sex is a special gift to be honoured" variety (which i think is good), maybe you should just hook up discreatly with somebody and "practice". bad word to use but you get the point i'm making. and as has been said before, plenty of people on boards or anywhere would be only to happy to help.

turbot

Old_Maid,

From your language, you are obviously smart. You also think *way* too much, and I don't think you are telling us the whole truth.

Do you really think that all teenage girls, who were all at one point virgins, didn't face the same emotional questions you do over closeness and sex?

You make excuses about being picked up in a bar as not being safe, yet you are prepared to risk hiring a male escort? I have a word for this: bull****. If you go home with a guy, what might happen; he might seduce you, or even be aggressively sexual with you. Isn't that what you want?

Whether or not you like to admit it, you've become so obsessed with this idea of you being a virgin, that you use it as a crutch to avoid facing all the emotional risks associated with relationships.

This quality makes you fundamentally unattractive, not the fact you were a virgin.

How would it be possible to have fun with someone in bed, if they were so self-obsessed that they avoided learning about people until their mid 30's?
Even most people with serious physical disabilities have done more than you by your age.

To behave as you do requires that you are selfish and you have all kinds of issues and you care little for other people. There is nothing sexy about cowardice. If you want to get laid, start by making the most of yourself.

You describe that you are dishonest with your friends (meaning you fundamentally disrespect them and imply they are not good friends of any worthy quality) and that guys who honour you enough to express interest you brush off with lies.

Don't you realise it's really rude and arrogant to assume you know better to make their choices for them?

Do you really think people care about your world that much?

Maybe they'd discuss your virginity for for five minutes. But you, you think you're so important it would dominate their conversation and their minds because you're so egotistical.

Do you imagine they'll have the fact your a virgin announced on the news?

Even if they heard you were a Virgin, do you think they'll even believe you? BULL****.

What makes you unattractive is you care more about your reputation in the eyes of the people around you (and your idea of these people in your head), than using the opportunity to treat decent people, who come along well.

I don't think you really even want to resolve this, you might say you do, but it's so emotionally challenging for you, you prefer to be a victim.

Are you really so special (introverted), you haven't paid attention to other peoples needs, or do you only care about your own?

In terms of knowing what to do, you can get quite far by watching porn, and reading books on sex, but you already know this. You don't need a bunch of decent people on a discussion board to tell you. You're just feeding your victim mentality.

Anyone will tell you if you get stoned or drunk you'll be more chilled out. Anyone who's significantly sexual will tell you that it's your attitude that makes you a good lover in the long run. People are different and so some guys like vulernable nervous women because it turns them on. Others might prefer to masturbate with your toes in their mouth. If you live in your head you never get to discover these things for yourself.

Being a virgin is just different. From a guys perspective, he doesn't have any standards to live up to. If he orgasms too soon, you've no reference point. That makes it easy, not difficult. And where on earth do you have the notion that all his other choices are pornstar lovers? Some girls are religious and others simply have their own issues over sex.

There are so many good books, like "Sex, Drugs and Magick" by Robert Anton Wilson and books by Nancy Friday on sexual fantasies, and lots of easily available books on how to be better in bed. I imagine you've read lots of Mills and Boon Novels.

If you are not prepared to do what it takes to become amazing in bed, and go to dance classes and set out to become wilder than most porn stars, then you have one obvious option.

If you are not prepared to get your act together, have faith in people, maybe you should become religious and become a nun. You'll never have to face the emotions you've been hiding from, and you may even have a support structure of other women who are also virgins.

Aard

As far as "not knowing what to do down there", there are some 18 yo who know exactly what to do, and some 30 yo who know next to nothing, and vice-versa, both guys and girls. This isn't from experience (mostly) but I've heard countless stories of men not knowing how to do things.

I think you should just get out there. If you don't take the bull by the horns now, you'll regret it later on. You certainly HAVE missed out on a lot of teenage/college years stuff, so make the most of the last two years before you hit 30. Just decide to go out some weekend (soon) with your friends with the only intention of kissing somebody. It's not that hard. And it's not slutty. And it's ok if you need to have a drink or two before you have the confidence. The only thing that's stopping you is yourself, and it's not going to be any easier to start in 5 years time than it is now. And frankly, I think if you're still a virgin at 40 that it's not only weird, but not normal or natural.

Just my 2c.

Kell

Bravo Turbot.

K-

LegacyUser

Turbot - woah man, why so aggressive and angry? I don't think anything I've said has warranted such a visceral and, frankly, vindictive response.

turbot wrote:

Do you really think that all teenage girls, who were all at one point virgins, didn't face the same emotional questions you do over closeness and sex?

Well I was a teenage girl too and of course I know they did. Unfortunately whereas many of them managed to stumbled and fumble their way through those difficulties with the help of drink and eager teenage boys, I didn't. I just missed it. Sorry if this makes you angry?

turbot wrote:

You make excuses about being picked up in a bar as not being safe, yet you are prepared to risk hiring a male escort? I have a word for this: bull****. If you go home with a guy, what might happen; he might seduce you, or even be aggressively sexual with you. Isn't that what you want?

What? I don't really understand what you're saying here. I have thought about hiring an escort while I have never thought about going home with someone I met in a club or pub. I do think an escort would be safer to be brutally honest. I'm not talking about some randomer you might find on gumtree, haha, I mean someone you get from a "proper" agency. (I do think these are difficult to find however.)

turbot wrote:

How would it be possible to have fun with someone in bed, if they were so self-obsessed that they avoided learning about people until their mid 30's?

Well I think it's kind of sad that you equate "learning about people" with "having sex" with them. I have many friends and I am a very compassionate, well liked person. I'm not emotionally retarded or self obsessed. In many ways it's my lack of vanity that is the problem because it never occurs to me that someone may like me.

turbot wrote:

To behave as you do requires that you are selfish and you have all kinds of issues and you care little for other people.

What? Not having had sex with anyone is intrinsically selfish? What on earth are you talking about?

turbot wrote:

Do you really think people care about your world that much? Maybe they'd discuss your virginity for for five minutes. But you, you think you're so important it would dominate their conversation and their minds because you're so egotistical.

No I don't think this at all. Moreover I don't think they would react in such an aggressive and incomprehending way as you, who seems to think my lack of sexual experience is grounds to attack me and call me egotistical.

turbot wrote:

What makes you unattractive is you care more about your reputation in the eyes of the people around you (and your idea of these people in your head), than using the opportunity to treat decent people, who come along well.

How have you managed to extrapolate from anything that I've said that I don't treat people well? Your level of assumption and criticism is so out of proportion.

turbot wrote:

Are you really so special (introverted), you haven't paid attention to other peoples needs, or do you only care about your own?

Other people's needs? What needs are they? Their needs to have sex with me? What are you on about?

turbot wrote:

Being a virgin is just different. From a guys perspective, he doesn't have any standards to live up to. If he orgasms too soon, you've no reference point. That makes it easy, not difficult.

Ok. Thank you for the first helpful insight that you've given me. I posted this problem to survey mainly male opinions and I've received some heartening reactions which would lessen my fears in future. I also expected some "yeah that is a bit weird and it would put me off" responses. I didn't expect a bizarro "you're selfish and don't treat people decently" post. It's been interesting!

turbot wrote:

I imagine you've read lots of Mills and Boon Novels.

Ahahahahaha! Whatever!

turbot wrote:

If you are not prepared to get your act together, have faith in people, maybe you should become religious and become a nun.

Well along with the escort this is something else I have considered, haha. Unfortunately I'm an atheist and I think the nuns would drive me nuts

turbot

Old_Maid,

Turbot - woah man, why so aggressive and angry? I don't think anything I've said has warranted such a visceral and, frankly, vindictive response.

You wanted feedback.

Based upon what you've said, this is how I make sense of you.

The post is for your benefit.

I'm neither aggressive or angry with you. You're an anonymous female who hasn't had any, and is distraught. Has it ever occured to you that a good sex life would make you feel so much better you'd overcome much of your depression. Most women enjoy their day after a really good seeing to.

Before this, to get what you want, you've got to see through your own bull****. If you don't, you get to live as a nun. If you do, you get rewarded with orgasms and intimacy.

Well I was a teenage girl too and of course I know they did. Unfortunately whereas many of them managed to stumbled and fumble their way through those difficulties with the help of drink and eager teenage boys, I didn't. I just missed it. Sorry if this makes you angry?

You didn't miss it. You avoided it.

You chose not to participate in these rites of passage when most other people did.

This didn't just happen to you. You chose not to go to those bars or parties, or get invited even, or socially participate. You decided to miss it. Either you take responsibility for your life, or you avoid harnessing the power to change it.

Whether or not you were an emotional recluse, you made decisions during your life and you're not going to get what you want until you make dramatically different decisions.

Or, do you want me to pander to your bull**** and say poor you? You've lived with your own bull****, yet you may find that other people won't.

What? I don't really understand what you're saying here. I have thought about hiring an escort while I have never thought about going home with someone I met in a club or pub. I do think an escort would be safer to be brutally honest. I'm not talking about some randomer you might find on gumtree, haha, I mean someone you get from a "proper" agency. (I do think these are difficult to find however.)

Firstly, in Ireland prostitution is illegal.

Secondly, do you really think someone who sleeps with 10+ women a week professionally, is going to care for you, beyond profitting from you?

Third, there are health issues.

Fourth, your whole rationale indicates you live in an imaginary fantasy land.

I'd say most women on this discussion board of your have gone home with at least 10 guys, some of whom they had sex with.

If you get a bad vibe, obviously, it's not smart to go. But saying it's not safe, based upon a lack of experience, is nothing more than a theory. Your world is built of theories not grounded in reality, because you've avoided having the experiences that would give you wisdom.

This to me indicates you lack a sense of adventure. How are you ever going to have sex in a changing room at a clothes shop, if you aren't even confident enough to consider going home with a guy you met in a club?

Well I think it's kind of sad that you equate "learning about people" with "having sex" with them. I have many friends and I am a very compassionate, well liked person. I'm not emotionally retarded or self obsessed. In many ways it's my lack of vanity that is the problem because it never occurs to me that someone may like me.

But at the same time, you avoid having real experiences.

You assume that people will gossip like crazy, and you arrogantly presume guys will have a problem with you being a virgin, such that you make that choice for them. This behaviour is bull****.

So I'm a guy in a bar, chatting you up. Lets say I'm a decent sincere guy. They make have sexual desires, and they do exist.

Yet, before anything happens, you brush me off, based upon your inner thought processes, because you imagine how I may react, and censor the possibilities that may pan out if you made different choices.

Don't you realise:
- It's disrespectful to me, to decide what I want, or what I might have a problem with, such that you don't give me an option? You simply don't know. Your lack of experience makes you ignorant and stupid at that.

- It's disrespectful to mistake your hallucinations of my reactions, (the ones you imagine I'll have) for whats really going on with me. It's behaviourally rude to make such assumptions. It means you're not paying me attention. You're living in your head.

What? Not having had sex with anyone is intrinsically selfish? What on earth are you talking about?

It's selfish to be so concerned with how people may react to your virgin status, that you shut them out.

This means you are not paying attention to the truth of whats going on with them. Not being sufficiently aware of their world, and deciding on their behalf, based upon your own issues, is intrinsically selfish.

It's not compassionate to rudely assume that guys have needs that you won't meet, in a way where you avoid even making the effort. Thats called selfish.

No I don't think this at all. Moreover I don't think they would react in such an aggressive and incomprehending way as you, who seems to think my lack of sexual experience is grounds to attack me and call me egotistical.

Honey, I'm attacking your behaviour. It's getting in your way.

Or, would you prefer me to pretend to be a potential suitor so you can perpetuate your useless pattern of interaction and say poor you?

How have you managed to extrapolate from anything that I've said that I don't treat people well? Your level of assumption and criticism is so out of proportion.

Because I have decent friends.

If I had a serious issue, I know I can trust them.

To me, it would be rude to only think of them as fashion friends, yet not bestow the respect that means I treat them as people.

How are you ever going to give them a chance to help you, if you decide that because you're a virgin, you can't be honest?

If you overcome your virginity status, with an escort or one night stand, what are you going to replace your dishonesty about virginity with?

Other people's needs? What needs are they? Their needs to have sex with me? What are you on about?

People have all kinds of needs:
- Attention
- Emotional connection
- Being acknowledged and listened to
- Sex
- Friendship
- Intimacy

You don't fulfill these in other people because you're more concerned with what's going on in your head, than in their reality. You go inside and decide that they won't like you. You don't go to the effort of treating them well. You can honour the universe by having a good time in it, and treating worthwhile people well. Sex is a subset of this attitude.

Avoiding treating them well is treating them badly. By default, because you shut them out and brush them off, that is what you are doing. IT would be more compassionate, if that is what you are about, to fulfill their sexual fantasies, because just as you, they have needs also.

Ok. Thank you for the first helpful insight that you've given me. I posted this problem to survey mainly male opinions and I've received some heartening reactions which would lessen my fears in future. I also expected some "yeah that is a bit weird and it would put me off" responses. I didn't expect a bizarro "you're selfish and don't treat people decently" post. It's been interesting!

Unless you change dramatically, you're sentenced to being who you already are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbot
I imagine you've read lots of Mills and Boon Novels.


Ahahahahaha! Whatever!

Are you really saying that you haven't? Your language implies you are clever enough to read voraciously. Please don't pretend you haven't. This is you we are talking about, not the front you project to the World.

Well along with the escort this is something else I have considered, haha. Unfortunately I'm an atheist and I think the nuns would drive me nuts

And you're not already so sexually frustrated you are going nuts?

Maybe you'd be more comfortable being lesbian?

Marksie

I started posting in this thread under the assumption that the OP had someting she genuinely wanted to clear and ask advice on.

AS such my initial posts were giving advise and opinions based on this.
And that perhaps chronic shyness, lack of self esteem or effects of bullying had casued this.

however as the thread has developed it has become clear that all those with reasonable advice have, in general been ignored and that the OP is wallowing in the mire of self pity and look at me how dreadful. While relishing the self obsessed martyred virgin status...

as kell puts in..those in the same sh***y little boat

Turbot... well done.

OP get out of your fantasy world, relate to people or alternatively get professional counselling.
If after all that you still want to be behind your armour, like joan of arc, then go online and by yourself a nice big Vibrator. The only possible emotional turmoil then is if the batteries run out on you.

LegacyUser

marksuttonie wrote:

AS such my initial posts were giving advise and opinions based on this.
And that perhaps chronic shyness, lack of self esteem or effects of bullying had casued this.

Thank you for that. But it's not telling me anything I didn't know already. And neither is it what I asked for in my original post. I just wondered what male reactions would be to a woman who told them this.

marksuttonie wrote:

however as the thread has developed it has become clear that all those with reasonable advice have, in general been ignored

They haven't been ignored. As I've said repeatedly - I found the positive male reactions quite comforting. The people I specifically replied to had raised things I wanted to clear up.

marksuttonie wrote:

and that the OP is wallowing in the mire of self pity and look at me how dreadful. While relishing the martyred virgin status...

Jesus! You and Turbot make a great couple. How very lacking in imaginative empathy you are. You become so angry because you can't make the leap to understand where I am or how I got here. I am not wallowing in self pity - I've gotten to this age without discussing this with anyone so I far from an attention seeker.

marksuttonie wrote:

OP get out of your fantasy world, relate to people or alternatively get professional counselling.

I do receive counselling. But counselling from a woman who obviously can't give me male perspectives and that's why I came here to just ask for people's thoughts.

I don't want to argue with people and I really don't want them making ridiculous personal assumptions about me (Mills and Boon - are you out of you mind Turbot?). If this is going to descend into some bizarre slagging match I think we should end it here. Thanks to everyone else who said some helpful things.

Nevyn

I think you are wrong to conculde your cousellor is of no help to you in this situation and that you should try open up to your friends about this issue.
I wish you well on your path to a happy life with a healthy sex life abd dealing with the issues you have.
Turbot and Marksuttonie are right bout the fact that our sexuality and our sex lifes are not divorced from who and how we are.
They should be a integeral part of us that developes and grow as we do from adolsence into adulthood I hope you find the process you need to make this happen.

Locking the thread as you requested.