Gatlin Busted

thirtyfoot

While its always good when a cheat is busted, its still not good for the profile fo the sport. The Gatlin/Powell rivalry was really kicking off and its a shame because it marred what is turning out to be the best track season in years.

There will be nobody to push Powell now and we may not see the best of him until somebody can get close to him again and we'll never get to know who would have won in the big head to head. By the way, Powells sequence of sub 10's this year has been amazing, he makes running 9.9 look like a stroll in the park.

Pherekydes

Powell doesn't run well under pressure.

thirtyfoot

Slow coach wrote:

Powell doesn't run well under pressure.

Probably because he is clean!!!!

Pherekydes

Remember, just because he's given 200 clean tests doesn't mean he won't give one dirty (spiked) one.

thirtyfoot

Slow coach wrote:

Remember, just because he's given 200 clean tests doesn't mean he won't give one dirty (spiked) one.

That's a positive way to look at things, if I thought like that I'd give up the sport of athletics for ever. Bottom line is Gatlin is dirty, Powell is clean. When Powell fails a test then I'll stop believing in the man, for now he is clean and he is the man!

He bottled in Athens but you must remember he was very young and burst onto the scene that year. That will have been burning up inside him for the past two years and to beat Gatlin in a championship must have been a major target that unfortunately he will not now get the chance to do. People will always say "but you never beat gatlin" and that'll be a shame.

If I was him I'd move up to 200, thats where the action is at the moment with Carter, Gay and others.

Clum

Tingle wrote:

People will always say "but you never beat gatlin" and that'll be a shame.

Don't think it'll matter too much that he never beat Gatlin. Gatlin cheated and probably shouldn't have been running as fast was he was.

Pherekydes

Tingle wrote:

Bottom line is Gatlin is dirty, Powell is clean.

Why do you think Powell is clean? Because he passed all those tests? Funny how everyone has 100% faith in every failed test, but not in every passed one...

thirtyfoot

Slow coach wrote:

Why do you think Powell is clean? Because he passed all those tests? Funny how everyone has 100% faith in every failed test, but not in every passed one...

I think you answered your first question with your second question. Powell is clean because he has passed all his tests. I'd prefer if Gatlin didn't fail as the Powell/Gatlin rivalry was great for the sport. You are obviously on the Gat side of the AP/JG divide but I think its petty to try drag Powell's integrity into the debate. I'd be a Powell fan but if it was he who had failed the test, I'd be condemning the guy and looking to Gatlin to maintain the integrity of the sport. If the tests are to be believed and the disgruntled masseuse theory can't be proved, then Gatlin has let the sport down and is a cheat, and we should be looking to guys like Asafa/Wariner/Carter to help build the sport back up and not trying to drag his name into the gutter, otherwise the sport is dead.

Pherekydes

Tingle wrote:

I think you answered your first question with your second question. Powell is clean because he has passed all his tests. I'd prefer if Gatlin didn't fail as the Powell/Gatlin rivalry was great for the sport. You are obviously on the Gat side of the AP/JG divide but I think its petty to try drag Powell's integrity into the debate. I'd be a Powell fan but if it was he who had failed the test, I'd be condemning the guy and looking to Gatlin to maintain the integrity of the sport. If the tests are to be believed and the disgruntled masseuse theory can't be proved, then Gatlin has let the sport down and is a cheat, and we should be looking to guys like Asafa/Wariner/Carter to help build the sport back up and not trying to drag his name into the gutter, otherwise the sport is dead.

I mentioned Powell because you said he was clean, yet Gatlin passed plenty of tests, too, and now because there is a problem with a test in April this year you are doubting every previous test he's ever passed. It doesn't make sense.

Common Sense

My view on all of this is very simply - some will probably say naively so. Unless an athlete has tested postive for drugs, I'm happy to believe she or he is clean. Other wise I'd probably get out of athletics. Having said that, in relation to the present controversy, I'm very saddened to learn that Gatlin has been using - saddened for the sport not for Gatlin.

thirtyfoot

Slow coach wrote:

I mentioned Powell because you said he was clean, yet Gatlin passed plenty of tests, too, and now because there is a problem with a test in April this year you are doubting every previous test he's ever passed. It doesn't make sense.

It does make sense, you fail a test you're guilty, you don't fail a test you are clean, Powell has never failed a test so he is clean, Gatlin has failed a test (two in fact) so he is dirty. What do you propose as the doping/banning methodology then? Three strikes and your out , or a majority of the 100's of test you do must be positive before a ban or just let them all run loose and let the best chemist be the winner or maybe we could throw them into water and whoever sinks and drowns is clean and whoever floats is dirty. I'm interested to hear how you would approach doping.

As Commonsense says you have to believe the athletes are clean until they test positive, otherwise just give up on the sport. Thats why we should champion the likes of powell/carter/wariner to try save the sport, thats why I mentioned Powell originally because in a dark time for track and field and particularly sprinting, Powell is an example of what is good about the sport (until he tests positive and then I will give up and leave the sport).

thirtyfoot

The lawyer for the therapist has made a statement, seems he was contracted to Nike, just complicates things a little more. I'd say the coach Trevor Graham is f*cked big time, even Gatlin's people are denying the therapist story at this stage.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/summer/track/2006-07-31-gatlin-doping_x.htm

Linford

Tingle wrote:

If I was him I'd move up to 200, thats where the action is at the moment with Carter, Gay and others.

Hi first time poster in this forum.

I disagree strongly with your statement above Powell moving up to the 200 cause there is more action there. I know that is your opinion, but I am curious as to why you would want to be running the 200m if you were him just cause there is more action.

I am a former sprinter and the 100m has always been the top event, everyone remembers the winner of the 100m at the Olympics and WC, but not that many people remember the 200m guy. In fact I sort of looked down on some of the specialist 200m runners as guys who couldn't handle the 100m or the 60m indoors.

So if I was Powell, I would continue to do what I am doing, enjoy being the greatest sprinter since Maurice Greene, hope to surpass him and pray to stay healthy and win the big championships in 2007 and 2008.

thirtyfoot

I totally agree with you that 100m is the blue riband but I think he should double up not abandon the 100m, go for the 100/200 double in the next 2 majors. He could get bored in the 100 with nobody within 2/10ths of him, in London last week he said he wasn't in the mood, yet still ran 9.91, with Gatlin gone who'll puch him. Imagine a 200m line-up with - Powell, Gay, Carter, Bolt, Spearmon, Crawford, even throw in Wariner coming down for a sub 20 tuneup - now I'd pay in to see that.

ecksor

Slow coach wrote:

Why do you think Powell is clean? Because he passed all those tests? Funny how everyone has 100% faith in every failed test, but not in every passed one...

I *think* I know what point you're making (but I'm never sure when drugs in sport comes up, you have a very roundabout way of expressing your opinion on such matters that seems to confuse more than just me) but bear the charter in mind regarding unsubstantiated allegations. I don't think you're making any here, but if comments are vague then it can lead the thread astray.

thirtyfoot

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/athletics/5242728.stm

Not sure I agree with this stance that the Berlin Golden League crew are taking.

Pherekydes

ecksor wrote:

I *think* I know what point you're making (but I'm never sure when drugs in sport comes up, you have a very roundabout way of expressing your opinion on such matters that seems to confuse more than just me) but bear the charter in mind regarding unsubstantiated allegations. I don't think you're making any here, but if comments are vague then it can lead the thread astray.

I never make unsubstantiated allegations. In fact, I never make allegations. What I was trying to say, which seems clear to me, is why do people automatically think that a positive test mean that the athlete must have been doping all along? Or, why do people automatically think "cheat", after a positive? Is foul play that unlikely?

To bring up a age-old case that most people will have heard of:

Tonya Harding had her boyfriend assault Nancy Kerrigan, in order to take her out of the competition.

Now what if Tonya had spiked Nancy's drink, instead of her knees? Nobody would have believed Nancy. Just another cheat...

Squirrel

I think I know what you're saying, Slow coach. Just to clear up, is what you're saying is that once someone is caught on drugs it's taken by fans that they've been on them for the whole time so anything previously done was "on the juice" aswell?

And I think this could be where you're statement came from.

Clum wrote:

Don't think it'll matter too much that he never beat Gatlin. Gatlin cheated and probably shouldn't have been running as fast was he was.

ecksor

Slow coach wrote:

I never make unsubstantiated allegations. In fact, I never make allegations. What I was trying to say, which seems clear to me, is why do people automatically think that a positive test mean that the athlete must have been doping all along? Or, why do people automatically think "cheat", after a positive? Is foul play that unlikely?

I appreciate what you're trying to say and that you're not making any allegations (which is what I said). It's just best in this case to actually say what you mean rather than try to lead people to a POV since if the rules are broken there's less ambiguity for people to point at.

Joeface

I have too say im not surprise, I am one who believes the last clean sprinter was Donovan Bailey but sure who knows even the Great Carl lewis Tested positive 3 times before Seoul In 1988, I beleive most of the sprinters are doing something

thirtyfoot

Gatlin has been banned for 8 years after he admitted he did commit a doping offence and will co-operate in assisting the fight against drugs in the sport. Trevor Graham is starting to feel a little nervous now as are a few others. If Gatlin does follow through with this and can name names it could be a massive thing for the sport. Even though he is a drug cheat, I would have some respect for him again if he does successfully implicate others.

Chances are if he does blow the whistle, the ban will be shortened.

GOAT_Ali

The whole issue of drugs in sport has become a shambles. It looks like Gatlin
has cut a deal that may see his 8 year penalty whittled down. The guy has twice failed drugs tests and has used the excuse that he has ADD and that's why he was caught. It's about time the authorities enforced strictly the penalties they impose or else they will lose what little credibility they have left

Linford

Gatlin has agreed to cooperate with the authorities and will not contest his positive test in exchange for an eight-year ban versus a lifetime ban. I don’t know if this means he is admitting his guilt or if he has decided that there is nothing to gain from contesting the test based on the evidence the authorities have against him and how previous appeals for similar positive tests have gone.

If Gatlin admits his guilt and akin to Ben Johnson and Dwain Chambers, admits he has been taking drugs for years (I am not saying he has) would this result in him losing his Olympic and World championship medals? If so this could mean that Francis Obikwelu is the 2004 Olympic champion and the great Frankie Fredericks wins a bronze for the 200m to add to his 4 silvers.

If Gatlin really spills the beans on what he has been doing (if anything) for the last few years with regard to doping this is obviously going to cast an even greater shadow over Trevor Graham and his group, Marion Jones’ positive test this week brings to nine the number of athletes that have trained under Graham that have tested positive, that is a phenomenal number and can hardly be considered a coincidence. This may have implications (if only by association) for Crawford the Olympic 200m gold medallist (and 100m bronze medallist if Gatlin loses the 100m gold).

Have any of John Smith’s athletes been caught taking banned substances? Certainly not any of his high profile major championship-winning athletes.

It has always amazed me how few athletes have lost medals won previous to a positive test. I can only think of a few: Ben Johnson losing his Rome gold and WR after admitting during the Dublin Inquiry to doping for many years; Dwain Chambers losing his European gold after admitting to long term use of the supplement that resulted in his positive test. I am sure there is one or two others but not many. CJ Hunter is still the 1999 World Champion, he tested positive a number of times in 2000 and was subsequently banned, he then stated during the BALCO inquiry that he had personally injected his ex wife with drugs, I am not sure if he admitted to doping prior to getting caught. A different sport but does Michelle Smith deserve to keep her medals? I think that if the IOC and the IAAF want to get serious on punishing drug cheats they need to be handing out retrospective punishments, i.e. any medals won in the previous 18 or 24 months before the positive test being handed back.

In the majority of cases it is unlikely that a high profile drug cheat has not been using banned substances for a considerable period prior to getting caught, this in particular applies to Olympic champions who subsequently get caught. When you have reached the peak of your discipline in athletics and won an Olympic gold, you don’t suddenly start taking banned substances the following year. There may a few who can’t accept that age has made them slower/weaker than they were when they won gold, but they would be in the minority.

There is probably going to be an even bigger inquiry in the US than the BALCO inquiry with Gatlin and Jones testing positive this year. This will inevitably lead to other athletes being banned. Maybe the guilty athletes will do the decent thing (unlikely) and admit to long term doping. Maybe Frankie will end up with silver from the 200m from Athens. Maybe Marion will be stripped of her gold medals from Sydney and Ekatherina Thanou will end up with the gold (that could be awkward!).

Something definitely has to change cause I am sick and tired of the only athletics coverage in the media being about athletes getting caught cheating when the likes of Powell’s phenomenal achievements this year have been largely ignored.