Has fergie gone mad?

Cyrus

Just wondering what the feeling is among Man U fans, personally im delighted with uniteds summer but then im a pool fan.

Seriously tho, first he alienates (and it pains me to say this) possibly the best goalscorer the EPL has ever seen and to my mind, as a goal scorer, he is virtually unreplaceable. i dont think even if united had have got torres that he would get more than 15-20 a season.

Then he spunks 18m on a very limited CM, i actually think hargreaves would have been a better buy for united at least he has a decent engine and some presence.

I really think united will struggle next year unless they get a decent CF (i like saha but he's injury prone and rooney cant do it alone) and a proper top class CM aswell

Any why werent they involved when duff left?

Am i wrong or has it really gone tits up?

CountryWise

Mouriniho would never sell him to United or Liverpool or Arsenal! And i think it was arrogant to sell him to Newcastle for 5 million, it was showing off that money is no issue and to be honest made little of the player

SCULLY

CountryWise wrote:

Mouriniho would never sell him to United or Liverpool or Arsenal! And i think it was arrogant to sell him to Newcastle for 5 million, it was showing off that money is no issue and to be honest made little of the player

How come he didn't let him go for free if money is no issue.
Duff wasn't happy at Chelsea (not playing on a regular basis) and wanted out - The fact that CFC facilitated him by settling for a reduced fee was a nice gesture to an out going player.

The fact is that United never actually made an approach for him and I don't know what CFC would have done if they had.

As for whether Ferfie has gone mad? - Don't think so , but I think it is only natural for a manager in a job for so long going stale and/or running out of ideas. This does not take away from the great things he has achieved and his place as one of if not the best managers ever in the english game is secured. However, he probably should never had postponed his very public retirement plans.

iregk

I don't know why people are so surprised at teh Duff transfer. The reason folks that United, Milan, Barca etc... didn't come in for Duff is because quite frankly he isn't that good!!! duff is a very average player and if you take off the Green tinted glasses you will see that. to me, 5-10 mill for duff was an ok deal, the 17mill that we paid was ripp off city.

Anyway back on topic. United, I'm delighted with their summer so far. 18mill on a completely over rated below average midfielder is hillarious. The chap cannot tackle, has difficulty passing the ball more than 6 yards and couldn't create anything even if it was paint by numbers!

Its up there with the 10mill deal for Kyup.

Unearthly

iregk wrote:

I don't know why people are so surprised at teh Duff transfer. The reason folks that United, Milan, Barca etc... didn't come in for Duff is because quite frankly he isn't that good!!! duff is a very average player and if you take off the Green tinted glasses you will see that. to me, 5-10 mill for duff was an ok deal, the 17mill that we paid was ripp off city.

Anyway back on topic. United, I'm delighted with their summer so far. 18mill on a completely over rated below average midfielder is hillarious. The chap cannot tackle, has difficulty passing the ball more than 6 yards and couldn't create anything even if it was paint by numbers!

Its up there with the 10mill deal for Kyup.

Never have I read a post with so much wrongness

TheMonster

Unearthly wrote:

Never have I read a post with so much wrongness

would agree - no point in replying TBH

PHB

Seriously tho, first he alienates (and it pains me to say this) possibly the best goalscorer the EPL has ever seen and to my mind, as a goal scorer, he is virtually unreplaceable. i dont think even if united had have got torres that he would get more than 15-20 a season.

One word: mobility. That's why he sold him. While I love Ruud, he hasn't been the same since his injury. If we had the pre-injury Ruud playing last year, he woulda scored 30 goals. While I woulda liked to keep him, Fergie decided to sell him on, and improve the team as a whole. Also he had a choice between Ruud or Ronaldo, and at this stage in Ruud career, that is a no-brainer.

Then he spunks 18m on a very limited CM, i actually think hargreaves would have been a better buy for united at least he has a decent engine and some presence.

First off, it's 14.x million, with incentives, relating to CL progress and premiership position [as all United incentives tend to be]
Secondly, it's typical that you'd point to Hargreaves as someone to buy. Everybody always rates in their minds the foreign players better than the English ones, simply because they see them less, and see less of their faults. Personally, I'm happy United have stuck to proven EPL quality. It's what we used to do in the past, and foreign midfielders have not worked out for us.

The chap cannot tackle, has difficulty passing the ball more than 6 yards and couldn't create anything even if it was paint by numbers!

.....................Player................Tackles .........Tackle %
1.................Michael Carrick.........135...............74%
2.................Mohamed Sissoko......156...............73%
3.................Frank Lampard..........100 ..............73%
4.................Steven Gerrard..........96................73%
5.................Xabi Alonso..............167...............69%
6.................Michael Essien..........106 ..............69%
7.................Claude Makelele.........97................69%


Passing

.....................Player.................Passes ..........Pass %
1.................Michael Carrick.........1,938.............80%
2.................Frank Lampard..........2,015.............76%
3.................Xabi Alonso..............1,820.............76%
4.................Michael Essien..........1,447.............76%
5.................Makelele..................1,601. ...........74%
6.................Steven Gerrard.........1,464.............74%

Assists this year - 6 [About the same number as...Alonso - 7, Gerrard - 6, Henry - 6]

Yeh, gee, it's like you've made up your mind with no basis.

I really think united will struggle next year unless they get a decent CF (i like saha but he's injury prone and rooney cant do it alone) and a proper top class CM aswell

Really? United beat Arsenal/Liverpool/Spurs to 2nd place with a midfield of O'Shea and Rooney, with Ruud not playing.

Next season, we will have a midfield of Scholes and Carrick, with Ruud not playing.

Improvement? Disimprovement?

While I agree, another CM and Striker needs to be brought in for us to definally challenge Chelsea, at the moment, I feel we will still be the main contenders to take on Chelsea.

Any why werent they involved when duff left?

Fergie has never rated Duff and probably never will. Had the choice of buying him pre-Chelsea, and turned it down. I am 100% sure Chelsea will never sell a player to United while they are still in the top 4, as United are the one club in the premierhsip who can rival them financially. Because of this Chelsea have systematically destroyed United's targets in the transfer market. It's quite annoying that Chelsea see United as their greatest threat, because if they saw Liverpool/Arsenal as their greatest threats, it'd be a lot easier for United, but alas.

valor

Whats this Senna guy like they are buying?

The Muppet

Unearthly wrote:

Never have I read a post with so much wrongness

True, all the more amazing that it came from someone that rates Lampard as one of the best midfielders in the world. Carricks stats for last season are as good as anyone elses in the premiership. Let's see how he performs at united before writing him off.

As for fergie going mad, far from it. He is still building his new team and has taken the tough decisions that needed to be taken. If the rumours are true there are still some players to arrive at united which should make them a better team than last year.

BaZmO*

The Muppet wrote:

If the rumours are true there are still some players to arrive at united which should make them a better team than last year.

And considering that the team last year was a team in decline that still manged to finish second, it doesn't say much for the teams that finished below them.

iregk

The Muppet wrote:

True, all the more amazing that it came from someone that rates Lampard as one of the best midfielders in the world.

Ok so were back to the old Lampard is crap argument again then. I think you'll find on many threads I said Lampard is one of the best midfielders in teh world but for the last 6 months has looked absolutely shattered. Even said pre world cup that he would have a disaster of a tournament.

Hobart

PHB wrote:

.....................Player................Tackles .........Tackle %
1.................Michael Carrick.........135...............74%
2.................Mohamed Sissoko......156...............73%
3.................Frank Lampard..........100 ..............73%
4.................Steven Gerrard..........96................73%
5.................Xabi Alonso..............167...............69%
6.................Michael Essien..........106 ..............69%
7.................Claude Makelele.........97................69%


Passing

.....................Player.................Passes ..........Pass %
1.................Michael Carrick.........1,938.............80%
2.................Frank Lampard..........2,015.............76%
3.................Xabi Alonso..............1,820.............76%
4.................Michael Essien..........1,447.............76%
5.................Makelele..................1,601. ...........74%
6.................Steven Gerrard.........1,464.............74%

Do you have any links for those stats? They surprise me, to say the least. Carrick is (at most) an average buy for Manu. I would have thought Viera would have been a much better buy, despite what the Manu faithful would have thought of it.

On the RVN transfer, I believe it was a terrible bit of business on SAF part, and it will bite him back. As for the posters above sentiments on Duffer, it does not really warrant comment on tbh.

PHB

I rate Duff very highly, but Fergie doesn't, end of.

The stats are lifted from redcafe.net, but they are from SkySports, just go into the opta stats for each team.

p.s. I find it funny that after the hilarity of the post by iregk was shown to be total bollocks, he just moved on to another argument.

Hobart

PHB wrote:

I rate Duff very highly, but Fergie doesn't, end of.

The stats are lifted from redcafe.net, but they are from SkySports, just go into the opta stats for each team.

SkySports wrote:

Tacklers.........Team.........Tackles.........Success rate
McCann.........Aston Villa......177.............67%
Xabi Alonso.....Liverpool.......167.............75%
Savage..........Blackburn.......167.............68%
Kishishev........Charlton........166.............73%
Young............Charlton........164.............70%

Passers.........Team.........Passes.........Accuracy
Lampard.........Chelsea.......2015...........81%
Fabregas........Arsenal........1957..........83%
Carrick.........Tottenham.....1938..........80%
Gilberto.........Arsenal.........1820..........84%
Xabi Alonso.....Liverpool......1820......... 82%

The above is taken from http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?hlid=256196&channel=skysports_home_page. Even if you go by percentage of success, opta seem to rate him 5th of the top 5 wrt to passing and he does not even appear on the radar, when it comes to tackles?? Even looking at his percentage success (not really a measure when it comes to tackling) he rates lower than Alonso, who is on 69% on your figures and 75% on the opta stats? Maybe redcafe have a bit of a Manu tint on things??

PHB wrote:

p.s. I find it funny that after the hilarity of the post by iregk was shown to be total bollocks, he just moved on to another argument.

Do you really though??

PHB

http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?h...orts_home_page. Even if you go by percentage of success, opta seem to rate him 5th of the top 5 wrt to passing and he does not even appear on the radar, when it comes to tackles?? Even looking at his percentage success (not really a measure when it comes to tackling) he rates lower than Alonso, who is on 69% on your figures and 75% on the opta stats? Maybe redcafe have a bit of a Manu tint on things??

Wouldn't suprise me, unfortunately that SkySports stats page never seems to work for me.
Although on this page (which seems to work through IE, but not firefox)
http://home.skysports.com/optastats.asp?clid=8&clubname=Tottenham_Hotspur&cpid=6

Passing:
Michael Carrick 1,938 76%

Tackling:
Michael Carrick 135 73%

And on this page, relating to Liverpool
http://home.skysports.com/optastats.asp?clid=8&clubname=Liverpool&cpid=8

Tackling:
Xabi Alonso 167 69%

So it would appear that SkySports don't know what they are on about, considering they contradict each other on different pages

Stky10

Interesting hatchet job, some truths, some not

http://football.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1827876,00.html

evad_lhorg

yea i think fergie has gone a little nuts. He, until today, had not one signing and gotten rid of one of the greatest strikers the club has seen. Last season he drops Ruud after a poor performance against liverpool in the FA cup and also takes Ronaldos side in the arguments they had. dropping Ruud for a game is fair enough but for pretty much the rest of the season when he is,at the time, the leading goalscorer in the league?! bit stupid. while I never really liked Ruud as i never found him exciting to watch, he got the goals which is what matters most.

And now onto the new signing. 18.5 million? thats insane. Hargreaves would have been the better buy especially on the back of his world cup performances. but neither would have been considered half way through last season at all. While we would all have loved a nice free michael ballack or a joe cole or Torres, even as big a club as United arent going to get the huge names these days. but they could have gotten Riquelme and he would have been an excellent signing.

Rikand

more stats

CARRICK STATS 2005/6
Crosses: 231 in 35 games - 133 more than any other Spurs player
Passes: 1,938 - nearly 600 more than anyone else at Tottenham
Assists: Six - joint top (with Mido)
Goals: Two

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/5224112.stm

Cyrus

to be fair a lot of his passes are sideways, nearly 2000 passes and only 6 assists?

Mr. Presentable

PHB wrote:

So it would appear that SkySports don't know what they are on about,

Sky Sports not know what they are on about? Shock, Horror.

Trouble is, if we allow Andy Gray & co to form our opinions of players for us, where does that lead?

I don't watch EPL, at all, so my experience of English footballers is from their internationals, and I am dumbfounded that a player from their WC squad is preparing to change clubs for 25m. That one not even in the squad went for 18.5m, that Lampard, Gerrard etc are still touted as being the best in the world.

Rikand

Cyrus wrote:

to be fair a lot of his passes are sideways, nearly 2000 passes and only 6 assists?

well having said that, how many players in the league had more than 20 assists ?

not that im saying hes a god or anything, but considering the amount of passes that are made in todays game saying only 6 assists out of 2000 passes doesnt really mean much. anyways, this is why we have wingers, to make passes to the strikers

cournioni

This thread should have a poll. Yes, Fergie has gone mad.

evad_lhorg

nipplenuts wrote:

Sky Sports not know what they are on about? Shock, Horror.

Trouble is, if we allow Andy Gray & co to form our opinions of players for us, where does that lead?

I don't watch EPL, at all, so my experience of English footballers is from their internationals, and I am dumbfounded that a player from their WC squad is preparing to change clubs for 25m. That one not even in the squad went for 18.5m, that Lampard, Gerrard etc are still touted as being the best in the world.

i cant make sense of this really? anybody help?

Sajan

The fact of the matter is that you pay top dollar for English footballers.. I think that it shows in previous transfers that have happened in the Premiership. The Rio Ferdinand transfer is an example. What did they pay for Rio.. 30.1 million. And what Did Gabriel Heinze cost Fergie? United need a midfielder who can bass the ball that is already adapted to the english game. In Michael Carrick they have found that..

I rate Carrick. He has a good range of passing and a good positional sense? But is he the player that United have needed to put them back on top of the English game? I doubt it. I'm sure they could go for a player such as Gravesen or Mikel Arteta at a fraction of the price to do a similiar job.

Bargains are few and far between these days. So to answet the question. I think that Ferguson hasn't gone mad but could have paid a lot less for a player of equal ability.

Big Nelly

Sajan wrote:

The fact of the matter is that you pay top dollar for English footballers.. I think that it shows in previous transfers that have happened in the Premiership. The Rio Ferdinand transfer is an example. What did they pay for Rio.. 30.1 million. And what Did Gabriel Heinze cost Fergie? United need a midfielder who can bass the ball that is already adapted to the english game. In Michael Carrick they have found that..

I rate Carrick. He has a good range of passing and a good positional sense? But is he the player that United have needed to put them back on top of the English game? I doubt it. I'm sure they could go for a player such as Gravesen or Mikel Arteta at a fraction of the price to do a similiar job.

Bargains are few and far between these days. So to answet the question. I think that Ferguson hasn't gone mad but could have paid a lot less for a player of equal ability.

Thing is of all the players Fergie has tried to buy in from outside the PL how many have worked out? players with WC winning medals, the best tackling midfielder in the French league etc and one they got to the PL they fell apart. For the combined fee of all of these players you would get close to what Fergie paided for Carrick who is proven in the PL and will slot into the team without the usual year or 2 to aclimitize.

I said seasons ago when he was at West Ham Utd should have signed him and everyone said he wasnt good enough for Utd!

PHB

Indeed, good managers stick to what they know. Wenger sticks to France, Benetiz to Spain, and Fergie used to stick to England and Northern Europe, and I'm happy he has gone back to that.

Nalz

I dont think he has - a bit overpriced (my value on Carrick wouldnt pass 12, IMO)

but everyone has there bad overpriced buys - look at Wenger. The best manager for transgfer dealings:

Reyes (overpriced, again IMO)
Jeffers
Richard Wright.


Now I know you could probably double or treble the list with Fergies signings:

Veron, Taibi, Dj Dj, Kleberson, Rio (overpriced), Evra (maybe a bit harsh),

but we got to give Carrick a chance. He's had a promising few seasons and only time will tell. I know United dont really have cash power like the used to, but we just got to wait and see how he and the other signings do. Ya never know if Senna goes to United and they sign another striker...they might just have a decent squad to challenge Chelski to the title.

Gangsta

Senna and Carrick is a very formidable partnership IMO.

johnos

I think that Fergie, and the rest of the world, has gone mad when the signing of a footballer - never mind one who's a good footballer but not a great footballer - warrants an announcement on the stock exchange.
Come to think of it, in that context, Fergie might actually be sane.

SteM

johnos wrote:

warrants an announcement on the stock exchange.

It's the law for PLCs to make these sales/signings announcements to the Stock Exchange in the UK as it can effect shareholder confidence, valuation etc as far as I know.

Spurs are a PLC.

iregk

PHB wrote:

p.s. I find it funny that after the hilarity of the post by iregk was shown to be total bollocks, he just moved on to another argument.

Jesus chirst i was replying to someone elses post and strayed off topic and i get accused of this!!!

To me from watching Carrick last season he stands in front of the back four and passes on average about 6 yards sideways and back. He is not a great player, he is distinctly average.

As a reporter put it at the weekend (can't remember who): Watching the once great Man United parade Carrick (another over rated english born player) as if he was the world class talent they have been searching for, was like watching U2 have a champaigne party to celebrate their new album entering the charts at no. 42! - Couldn't have put it better myself. They have let the most lethal striker in the premiership go all because of a stubborn manager and signed this.

The Muppet

iregk wrote:

age.

As a reporter put it at the weekend (can't remember who): Watching the once great Man United parade Carrick (another over rated english born player) as if he was the world class talent they have been searching for, was like watching U2 have a champaigne party to celebrate their new album entering the charts at no. 42! - Couldn't have put it better myself. They have let the most lethal striker in the premiership go all because of a stubborn manager and signed this.

Probably a mirror reporter;) . Your concern for United is touching but why not let the guy play a few games before writing him off as I said earlier his stats compare favourably to any other premiership midfielder.

SteM

iregk wrote:

To me from watching Carrick last season he stands in front of the back four and passes on average about 6 yards sideways and back. He is not a great player, he is distinctly average.

I don't think any United fan thinks Carrick is the solution to all of our midfield problems, but he's certainly a step in the right direction.

iregk wrote:

As a reporter put it at the weekend (can't remember who): Watching the once great Man United parade Carrick (another over rated english born player) as if he was the world class talent they have been searching for, was like watching U2 have a champaigne party to celebrate their new album entering the charts at no. 42! - Couldn't have put it better myself. They have let the most lethal striker in the premiership go all because of a stubborn manager and signed this.

:rolleyes: Everyone knows that reporters have agendas of their own, they're hardly the most unbiased bunch. Just because you found one that agrees with your personal opinion doesn't make that opinion correct.

therecklessone

iregk wrote:

He is not a great player, he is distinctly average.

Jaysus, thats something eh? Just over 9 hours earlier he was, and I quote:

iregk wrote:

[a] completely over rated below average midfielder

At that rate of improvement, he might be world class by early Wednesday...:rolleyes:

I watched Carrick play in the flesh over 20 times last year, and a few times the year before. He is most definitely not an average player, and is capable of passing a lot further than 6 yards. He's overpriced at £18.7m, but then Utd wanted him, we didn't want to sell him, and there's TV money on the way. Go figure.

astrofool

I remember reading a Mirror article a few years ago when I worked in a shop. It basically went on about how Utd. were a spent force, and that the next three matches (newcastle, pool, arsenal) they were going to get 1 point and be out of the race in October. Utd went on to win all three, and won the Premiership with a game in hand after Arsenal crumbled.

MisterAnarchy

SteM wrote:

I don't think any United fan thinks Carrick is the solution to all of our midfield problems, but he's certainly a step in the right direction.

Hardly a step in the right direction when United have paid nearly £20m for him and he is an overated English player.
That money could be better spent on a proven top class midfielder.
United need to buy quality players not waste money on trying to fit square pegs into round holes and trying to make silk out of pigs ears like they have been doing for the last 3 years.

PHB

That money could be better spent on a proven top class midfielder.

Which ones? Which are these top class proven midfielders who are willing to join United?

evilhomer

PHB wrote:

Which ones? Which are these top class proven midfielders who are willing to join United?

The question is not which top class midfielders are willing to join Man Utd.
The question is "Which of the big clubs is is willing to part with a world class midfielder?"

Milan will not part with Pirlo or Kaka.
Arsenal will not part with Fabregas.
Barca will not part with Ronnie, Xavi, Iniesta, etc..
Chelsea will not part with Lampard, Essien, Diarra, Makelele.

Maniche might have been a good signing though!

It's very hard to prise a top class midfielder away from a top class side once they have them.

Your only chance is to develop your own, get one while they are still relatively unknown or wait for a greedy one on a free (ala Ballack)

MisterAnarchy

PHB wrote:

Which ones? Which are these top class proven midfielders who are willing to join United?

Ruben Baraja would be a good buy.

PHB

Ruben Baraja

Of Valencia, since when is he a top class proven midfielder?
He is what, 31 now?

Yeh he might be cheap, but he'd need to be replaced what, next year? Maybe the year after if we're lucky.

MisterAnarchy

PHB wrote:

Of Valencia, since when is he a top class proven midfielder?
He is what, 31 now?

Yeh he might be cheap, but he'd need to be replaced what, next year? Maybe the year after if we're lucky.

You'd easily get another 3 years out of him.
He 'd be relatively cheap and is a good holding midfielder.

SteM

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Hardly a step in the right direction when United have paid nearly £20m for him and he is an overated English player.
That money could be better spent on a proven top class midfielder.
United need to buy quality players not waste money on trying to fit square pegs into round holes and trying to make silk out of pigs ears like they have been doing for the last 3 years.

United have paid £14.x million + addons. If he comes up to £18m it means thay'll have won honours over that time so paying that sure wouldn't bother me! Certainly a step in the right direction when he's better than what we have already and obviously a good player based on the stats - overrated or not. Too many people on this forum seem to be fixated on the whole 'overrated English player' thing, the fact is he's a good midfielder who has the capicity to get better and proven in the English game.

What do you mean 'square pegs into round holes'? That would be trying to fit a striker into a midfield role like Smith last season. United needed a midfielder so they bought a midfielder, hardly a case of a square peg into a round hole now is it?

TheMonster

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Hardly a step in the right direction when United have paid nearly £20m for him and he is an overated English player.
That money could be better spent on a proven top class midfielder.
United need to buy quality players not waste money on trying to fit square pegs into round holes and trying to make silk out of pigs ears like they have been doing for the last 3 years.

hopefully you are correct - and he will cost this as that means Utd win the league and CL :rolleyes:

According to BBC - the initial fee is 13M.

Fergie needs someone to slot in straight away, hence an English signing - name one other player in England that fits the bill and would be available - Reo Coker is the only one that comes to mind and he is not for sale.

Big Nelly

iregk wrote:

As a reporter put it at the weekend (can't remember who): Watching the once great Man United parade Carrick (another over rated english born player) as if he was the world class talent they have been searching for, was like watching U2 have a champaigne party to celebrate their new album entering the charts at no. 42! - Couldn't have put it better myself. They have let the most lethal striker in the premiership go all because of a stubborn manager and signed this.

Someone in house bought Sunday World and read this, they hadn't even signed Carrick, not sure how he can say they paraded Carrick around Utd when he still hadn't arrived at club. Sure the only reason we know he has signed is because Spurs had to tell the Stock exchange. The unveiling of him is later on this week and alot of people think that is because there will be two players annouced as signed.

Can't remember the jorno but I wouldn't post anything from the Sunday World. Alot of the sort of tripe you would see in Sun/Mirror just reprinted in there.

The most lethal striker in PL? think Terry Henry would have something to say about that. ANyway not getting into that one because we will have 10 pages about who is better. Van Nist was not playing much last season and Saha and Rooney looked a better combination that Van Nist and Rooney. They alos have Rossi and the baby face assasian seems to have finally got over the injury problems.

I think Fergie is trying to build a team around Rooney, it would be 1000 times worse if Madrid had signed Rooney. Utd will prob play a 4-1-3-1-1 formation next season, with the 3 in the middle been covered by Carrick allowed them to get forward.

Anyone have any ideas where Madrid are going to play Van Nist? he plays more or less the role Raul plays and there is no way a manager can drop Raul. I cant see him and Raul in the same team.

TheMonster wrote:

Fergie needs someone to slot in straight away, hence an English signing - name one other player in England that fits the bill and would be available - Reo Coker is the only one that comes to mind and he is not for sale.

Reo-Coker would never have moved this season, is club captain at a very young age, the club took a chance at taking him there so he feels he owes them something. Just played in an FA Cup final as captain and is going to lead the club into Europe as captain. There is not many reason to leave.

Give it one or two season more and he will come available, once West Ham are off the high of last season.

How many of West Ham top players have moved to bigger clubs in the summer? None. Only reserve players have gone. Even thou Newcastle, Spurs etc are reported to be sniffing around a few of there players and they all come out saying they don't want to move. See what happens in Jan or next summer if they dont have a good season! Ashton, Harewood, Reo-Coker, Anton etc could all move.

The Muppet

MisterAnarchy wrote:

You'd easily get another 3 years out of him.
He 'd be relatively cheap and is a good holding midfielder.

TBH you have to look at the bigger picture, a player with 3 year left in him will still leave united with the same problem in 3 years time. Any money spent on him would be dead money as there would be no resale value.

Buying a young player like Carrick sorts out the problm for eight years plus if it works out. If it doesn't work out he will have a resale value and the club could recoup the difference between the young and old player. It is a false economy to buy old players unless you can them very cheap, otherwise in the long term they could end up costing just as much as a younger player.

The bigger picture at United dictates that Fergie is buying players of a certain age to mould into a new team for the long term and quality young players don't come cheap no matter where you buy them.

Have to say I find it amusing that Carrick was Spurs player of the year last year , impressed when he got the chance in the world cup and has stats that compare favourable to any other premiership midfielder. Yet he becomes a below average player the minute he signs for United. On the other hand Ruud who got a lot of stick from users here when he was a united player becomes one of the best strikers in the world as soon as he leaves United. I wonder why that is?

p.pete

The Muppet wrote:

On the other hand Ruud who got a lot of stick from users here when he was a united player becomes one of the best strikers in the world as soon as he leaves United. I wonder why that is?

Paranoia?
Who is saying he is the best striker in the world, and also take a look at the kind of things he gets stick for (diving etc.) - it wasn't all because he wasn't/isn't a good striker.

Big Nelly

The Muppet wrote:

Have to say I find it amusing that Carrick was Spurs player of the year last year , impressed when he got the chance in the world cup and has stats that compare favourable to any other premiership midfielder. Yet he becomes a below average player the minute he signs for United. On the other hand Ruud who got a lot of stick from users here when he was a united player becomes one of the best strikers in the world as soon as he leaves United. I wonder why that is?

Robbie Keane was the player of the season for Spurs last year. Shown his receiving the award on RTE

The Muppet

Big Nelly wrote:

Robbie Keane was the player of the season for Spurs last year. Shown his receiving the award on RTE

I wasn't really talking about any award , I suppose I should have worded that differently. Ask any tottenham fan about how they reated him last year.

In fact if I remember correctly you told me there was not a chance in hell of Carrick moving anywhere when I first posted about Uniteds interest in him back in january.

I'm not paranoid P.Pete it was just an observation all the stick ruud got was not about his diving " the best goalscorer the premiership has ever seen" would definitely be in contention for best striker in the world , no?

Again If my memory serves me right we have actually had that debate here and I believe Henry was then considered the best striker in the prem, Pity Ruud had to move for some people to see pat their bias and give him the credit he deserved is the point I,m making.


Either way it was just an observation lets not let the thread get diverted off topic, back to Fergies madness.:eek:

p.pete

The Muppet wrote:

I find it amusing that Carrick was Spurs player of the year last year

Big Nelly wrote:

Robbie Keane was the player of the season for Spurs last year. Shown his receiving the award on RTE

The Muppet wrote:

I wasn't really talking about any award

Amusing indeed.

The Muppet wrote:

Pity Ruud had to move for some people to see pat their bias and give him the credit he deserved is the point I,m making.

Don't worry about "some people" muppet - there's plenty who still won't give him credit and who gave him credit without him needing to move. If we were all sheep football would be boring.

Unearthly

Reo-Coker would never have moved this season, is club captain at a very young age, the club took a chance at taking him there so he feels he owes them something. Just played in an FA Cup final as captain and is going to lead the club into Europe as captain. There is not many reason to leave.

That's not entirely true, I reckon if a big club came in with an offer for him, gave him better wages, and at his age would have a chance to further his career, he would snap their hands off.

Obviously I don't know Reo Coker to know what he has in mind. I'm just looking at human nature instincts, past experience when this happened. He also has no reason to stay hugely loyal to West Ham cause he hasn't been there all his footballing career.

Ardent

iregk wrote:

To me from watching Carrick last season he stands in front of the back four and passes on average about 6 yards sideways and back. He is not a great player, he is distinctly average.

By that rationale, Makele is also a distinctly average player.

Fergie has bought a player he desperately needs in Carrick but I think he's paid about double what he's really worth. I also feel United need another top quality midfielder to partner Carrick as Scholes is past it now. And Giggs should be put out to pasture soon, why didn't they move for Duff?

United are going to do feck all next season with the likes of Fletcher and Richardson in the first team. Has Fergie lost it? Probably.