Cannot Choose

LegacyUser

Going anon for this one.

I'm seperated from my wife about 6 months. We've 3 kids. I finished it as I had met some one else. Someone I'm still with who makes me so happy. I haven't moved in with her or anything. I'm back living in my parents.

The problem is I want my ex wife to be happy. I want somebody that would treat her the way I didn't. She really does deserve that. I know she's been seeing people and although I was uncomfortable at first I've accepted it and it doesn't really bother me anymore.

Of course after we broke up I had my reservations, did I do the right thing. If things were different would the marriage have worked out. All the usual hind sight.

It's been really bad for the last two weeks. I've been missing her badly. I always got days like that. It would last a day or two and I'd snap out of it. But I haven't snapped out of it.

I broke up with my girlfriend Sunday as it wasn't fair to her for me to be having all these second thoughts when I was with her. I went to my ex to talk things out. Not with the intention of getting back together but just so she knew the story. After a couple of hours talking we were basically at the point of getting back together. Not moving back in together but taking it very slow and steady. We weren't going to say anything to the kids until we were certain. Then she kissed me.

I felt nothing. I felt like I was cheating on my girlfriend. It really freaked me out. I had to stop her kissing me.

I love both these women. My girlfriend is truly everything I would look for in a girlfriend. If I made up a list she would tick all the boxes. My ex wife wouldn't be in the same category but I still love her despite those facts. They really are apples and oranges. Both know how I feel for the other and have been really great. Encouraging me to do what I think is best for me.

For the last two days I haven't been able to stop crying thinking about this. I even prayed for some kind of guidance. I don't pray. Before any of this and for years I've suspected I suffer from depression. My ex wife believed this too.
I am miserable. My mother believes I should see some kind of councillor or specialist. I don't think anyone can help me. I can't even help myself. I cannot figure out what I want to do

I've tried weighing up both options but I'm just stuck in the middle. My head feels like it's going to explode.The confusion is driving me mad.

I'd appreciate if people wouldn't judge me, I feel absolutely horrible and really don't need to feel any worse by people attacking me.

I'm just looking for some advice.
Thanks all.

RandomOne

If you have an underlying depression, you won't sort the situation with your ex-wife and ex-gf out until you sort yourself out. First step has to be your doc. Concentrate on getting yourself together rather then getting together with either lady. Whoever you end up with, whether one of them or someone entirely different, you'll be in a better position to decide what it is you're really looking for and assess if the relationship fits. Good luck.

Beruthiel

Do these women a favour and keep away from both of them until you get your head sorted out.

How do you know a professional wouldn't help you sort your head out if you haven't even tried? You should start there imo because right now you can't see the wood for the trees and your head is melted.

You miss your wife because you have lived with her for so long and were in a comfort zone that you no longer have. Your life has totally changed now and you miss all the little things that gave each day a rhythm. You'll have to get past that and until you do stop messing her about.
In fact I would suggest that you leave you wife alone and not go near her again.
How do you think she would take it to know that she is not in the same category as your g/f? If you can say something like that about your wife you know it's finished. Let her get on with her life and find someone who will treat her how she deserves to be treated.

I'd appreciate if people wouldn't judge me, I feel absolutely horrible and really don't need to feel any worse by people attacking me

I cannot speak for other posters, but you have come onto a forum and so of course you will be judged. It's human nature. Though I suggest that everyone keep their more extreem thoughts to themselves.
You may say you feel absolutely horrible but it's very difficult for me to feel too sorry for you considering what you have done.
btw
have you considered your children in this and what is best for them?

Kell

It sounds overtly simplistic and awfully clichéd, but is there any way you can physically get away from both (like out of the country) for a month or so?

Distance should help to clarify your thinking once you get over the sleepness nights and complete swings from depression to elevation which I am sure you are used to at this stage.

Personally, your post does smack of wanting ones cake and eating it and you're a bit long in the tooth to be told you cant have both.

Try the break. You will more than likely come out of it at least well balanced if not knowing what you want.

K-

Dragan

I would echo the previous two posts my friend, you really need to sort YOURSELF out. I would see it that there is something going on with you where you will not be happy either way until you sort that out.

You need to fix yourself, not your relationships....they will need to come after.

andrea

Definitely suggest getting a good counsellor and sorting your own head out before wondering about who you should be with. If you are depressed then that could be influencing your decisions which means that if you sort the depression you may want something completely different!

Take some time for yourself, take care of yourself and then you'll be better able to figure all of this out. Also, if you are in better shape emotionally then you've a better chance of a relationship lasting for you.

OrangeOranges

I'm seperated from my wife about 6 months. We've 3 kids

Firstly. It takes at least a year after a long-term relationship to be able to handle things. Dont rush it

Secondly. Hard not to judge you man.3 kids? IMO no matter how much you didnt love your wife etc. As long as the relationship "functioned" (no abuse etc) then you dont have the right to walk away. I couldnt care how miserable anybody is.

You made the decision to have kids, get married. Now you gotta wait til they're at least 18 to move.

The problem is I want my ex wife to be happy. I want somebody that would treat her the way I didn't. She really does deserve that

You dont even get the right to say that anymore. Her life choices are completely up to her from now on. Good or bad. EX is EX.

I broke up with my girlfriend Sunday as it wasn't fair to her

Do you spot the pattern here? You're the "martyr" type.

Take responsiblity for your actions. Leave the wife, leave the girlfriend, leave the kids if you want. But at least face up to the consequences of what your doing. At least be man enough to accept that you are messing with all these people's heads and lives.

You're not being kind to your ex-wife, kids, gf etc by leaving . You're not doing them a favour etc...................

I reckon you've got one final decision to make here and for good or bad you gotta stick with it for the rest of your life to be any sort of a man.

At the moment you cant stand the thought of yourself for what you've done. You cant stand to think of yourself as a ...................
My point is. So what if you are. Deal with it and start to fix it. The only thing standing between you being a complete basta*d and ruining your own and everyone around you lives is how you handle this situaition bring finality to the scenario.
Are you gonna reach for the bible or the whiskey or grow up and make decisions that need to be made in the real world?

Both know how I feel for the other and have been really great. Encouraging me to do what I think is best for me

You've got a pair of soft "plebs" running around after you.

The reason they're being great is because they both want you. Again cut out all the bs here. If you dont the decision will never become obvious.
Tick all the crappy boxes you want. The decision here is which woman you will be more happy/comfortable/dedicated/responsible wth for the rest of your life.

I went to my ex to talk things out. Not with the intention of getting back together

If you didnt want to give mixed signals then why kiss her? (she kissed me is crap because its clear how she feels).

Did you sit at the opposite end of a table when talking to her?
Did you keep things as formal as possible.?
Or did you hold her hand and spill your guts looking for redemption?

My point is you knew well what would happen as you wandered over to your wifes house for a chat.

My point is you keep lying to yourself here.

Be fecking straight for a change.
No matter how much of a fuc*er you eventual realise that you may be or feel like.

Be straight with yourself.


ps
councellor not a bad plan either.

LegacyUser

Thanks everybody. Regarding having my cake and eat, it's not the case but I can see how you would think that. Being that bit long in the tooth I've realised that the most important thing in life IMO is to be happy. I'm just trying to figure out which is the best way to do that.

A lot of people have made me realise that I do need to see a councillor or someone similar. I really appreicate every one's impartial views.

Does someone perhaps know if it would be better to see a doctor or or an independant concillor about the depression?

For years I would have days where I would just get so low. For no reason. I couldn't explain what was wrong if people asked me.

Where could I contact these people? I'm not going to make any decisions until I've sorted myself out. Thank you all for making me realise that.

Sleepy

Leave both women alone and deal with your own problems with or without the help of a counsellor. You'll only screw them around right now and tbh, you'll be screwing your kids around building their hopes up etc. (and believe me, no matter how cute / smart you think you're being trying to hide any "slow" steps at working it out, your kids will know - I did.) Don't make your family suffer because you're messed up.

Leave them alone and go get help.

Edit: OrangeOranges - put it a lot better.

Anti

ive had this before. its horrible on you, asyou dont know what to do, and when you do, do something you dont know if you should have. i got around it by fecking off to ibiza for the summer. Not the most mature thing to do, but its something you need to do, no nessiscerilly going to ibiza, but getting away for a while.

brown*eyed*girl

Agree with leaving both women alone until you get your own head sorted.

One thing that stands out and annoys me is you've not mentioned your kids best interest. After only 6 months separated from your wife (their Mother) their Daddy has a new girlfriend. Must be very tough on the kids I'd say.

Anti

thats a good point brown.

Your kids should be the most important thing to you at the moment

LegacyUser

My kids are my number one priority ALWAYS. I'm not going to get back with my ex until it's absolutely clear that it is the right thing.

My parents stayed together for a long time "for the kids". No one benefits from that. I know that from personal experience.

OrangeOranges

Thanks everybody. Regarding having my cake and eat, it's not the case but I can see how you would think that.

That's a throw-away sentence. State what you mean. How are you not?

But so what if you're having your cake and eating it. At least be honest to yourself and accept that you are.
How could this situation be anything but the above?

Two women. Both want you. Both providing emotional support. sexual support? etc etc ..............

Being that bit long in the tooth I've realised that the most important thing in life IMO is to be happy

Well you realised wrong sunshine.
You've been watchin too much Oprah.
Every sentence you write reeks of self-pity. Even your username. "in a bad way".
Not as bad as the rest of your kids lives? Not as bad as the 2 women whose lives you've probably destroyed.

What do you think their username is?
Again Im not trying to be hard on you for the sake of it. The point is: you broke this, now you bloody well fix it to the best of your abilities. And I dont care if it takes 20 years of trying to do it.

And sorry but once you had kids, you're happiness is secondary.

Does someone perhaps know if it would be better to see a doctor or or an independant concillor about the depression?

MAYBE you do need professional help. If thats the case then GP will refer you.

Remember this though. Depression is not an excuse for your behaviour. Its only and excuse for your mood swings.

Depression isn't an excuse for the poor decisions you've made lately.

Depression doesn't mean that you can't bloody well fix this thing or stay away from these women til you do.

Finally depression is a completely different thing to self-pity.

Aura

You are doing yourself and all involved untold damage if you continue to give off mixed messages, especially your children! Surely you have the maturity and insight to realise that and if not then suggestions of a counsellor are wise indeed.

I agree with previous posters that you need to sort your own head out before you decide which direction you go however it is important your children do not suffer or feel any sense of abandonment because of this. You too are responsible for them and should be there for them as much as possible while sorting through your own thoughts in as adult a way as possible. Flitting off to pastures new to do this may make it easier for you but will leave them feeling deserted.

You are not hanging around outside some teenage disco here! These decisions that will affect you and others in a very major way and you need to think long and hard before you close or open any doors.

I wish you well.


Aura.

ron.dolan

Its hard, but you have to choose a path and stick with it. Dithering will get you no where and will hurt everyone. Remember, your wife probably 'ticked all the boxes' when you first met her, hence the whole marrying and kids result?

Yes, go and see a counsellor by all means, you need clear impartial advice here mate.

Its good that you are considering everyones feelings, but there a time for consideration and a time to act on it. Act. Now. Before anyone gets even more hurt than before, its only fair?

Best of luck!

brown*eyed*girl

In A Bad Way wrote:

My kids are my number one priority ALWAYS. I'm not going to get back with my ex until it's absolutely clear that it is the right thing.

My parents stayed together for a long time "for the kids". No one benefits from that. I know that from personal experience.

No-one is saying to stay together for the kids. We all know that two parents separated and happy are much better than two miserable parents living together. Do your kids know your girlfriend. Have they been introduced? If so they must be very confused and unsettled.

Also did you meet your girlfriend before you split from your wife or after. Have you been going out with her immediately after you split with your wife?

Also excellent points oranges oranges especially about the depression. I know someone who uses their depression to run when the going gets tough or don't want to face a problem.

LegacyUser

OrangeOranges wrote:

Well you realised wrong sunshine.
You've been watchin too much Oprah.

The point is: you broke this, now you bloody well fix it to the best of your abilities. And I dont care if it takes 20 years of trying to do it.

And sorry but once you had kids, you're happiness is secondary. MAYBE you do need professional help. If thats the case then GP will refer you.

Remember this though. Depression is not an excuse for your behaviour. Its only and excuse for your mood swings.

Depression isn't an excuse for the poor decisions you've made lately.

Depression doesn't mean that you can't bloody well fix this thing or stay away from these women til you do.

Finally depression is a completely different thing to self-pity.

How did I realise wrong? How is my opionion wrong? Why isn't your opinion wrong? I said "IMO" that's exactly what it is MY OPINION. My other post hasn't show up yet as it's Modded but I've said my parents stayed together for the kids sake and it's not the best thing to do. I know that.

As I've already posted I'm looking into some professional help to try and get this sorted. So I'm trying to fix it.

I've put distance between myself and the women until I get myself sorted. So there's neither emotional support from them or sexual support as you put it. And no I'm trying to be a martyr I'm trying to rectify a problem I caused.

I'll be the first to agree with you about the depression.

brown*eyed*girl

double post

OrangeOranges

We all know that two parents separated and happy are much better than two miserable * parents living together.

Do we "all" really know that? IMO its 2 "PARENTS" versus 1.

Simple maths really.


*depends what you mean by miserable. So ok you're not "in love" or whatever. Doesnt mean you can't have a functioning relationship. If you make the wrong choices when it comes to building a family. Then as far as I'm concernec its "touch sh*t paddy"!

aidan24326

Agree with much of what's been said bar one or two things. Firstly, going back to your wife purely 'for the sake of the kids' IS NOT NECESSARILY the right thing to do if you no longer love your wife enough to want to be with her. There's no use in kids having two parents around if all the parents do is fight,argue,create a bad atmosphere etc. It would be great for the kids if you could sort things out with your wife but only do that if YOU'RE CERTAIN IT'S WHAT YOU AND HER BOTH TRULY WANT. You might be doing your kids a greater disservice if you trudged back there just to be the dutiful husband and father and your heart wasn't really in it. Be honest with yourself first and foremost because you can't be honest with anyone else until you are straight with yourself.

Whether you are actually 'depressed' or not, in the real medical sense, will require you to see a doctor, not just a counsellor. Ongoing preiods of low mood for no very obvious reason would suggest that you may well be, but either way a chat with your GP (or any GP) will be a big help. Remember they're only there to help and are well used to hearing this type of stuff. Any GP can refer you to a specialist if they see fit. Counselling may subsequently be recommended. Whatever you do make sure it's done in the best interests of yourself your wife and your children. Good luck.

aidan24326

OrangeOranges wrote:

Do we "all" really know that? IMO its 2 "PARENTS" versus 1.

Simple maths really.


*depends what you mean by miserable. So ok you're not "in love" or whatever. Doesnt mean you can't have a functioning relationship. If you make the wrong choices when it comes to building a family. Then as far as I'm concernec its "touch sh*t paddy"!

OrangeOranges I can't believe some people have actually praised you for making good points. If I was the OP I would find your posts about as helpful as a toothache and not very well informed either.

'Simple maths really' -well is it?? 2 is greater than 1 about the first sensible thing you've said all day. That is a BS comment. So you'd prefer kids to have 2 miserable parents rather than 1 happy and loving parent at home and another loving parent who's happy elsewhere and that they'd still get to see? Like the OP, my parents stayed together, partly for the kids and partly for other reasons maybe, I'm not sure, but they really shouldn't have. Was it better for us that they stayed together? I'm of the opinion that it wasn't.

They eventually separated a couple of years ago (we're all grown up now) but it would have been better for them and us if they'd just done it 20 years ago. I know of other similiar situations, so saying that it's always best to stay together for the kids, even where the parents no longer really want each other, is not always true, and is an over-generalisation.

And what exactly do you define as a 'functioning relationship'? Ok the husband and wife don't have to be madly in love and tearing the clothes off each other every night, but there has to be love and trust there otherwise it's just a sham. If you think your parents should totally abandon all their own hopes of happiness just for you then I'm glad you're not my daughter. Of course kids have to be prioritised but not to the extent that you cancel your own life for ever more once you have them. Kids aint stupid anyway they will sense from a mile away when their parents are just going through the motions and that's not an environment that I'd like to bring up kids in.

I wonder if you're unhappy in your marriage some day will you take such a hardline stance?

OrangeOranges

'Simple maths really' -well is it?? 2 is greater than 1 about the first sensible thing you've said all day. That is a BS comment

how can a statement be sensible and BS at the same time?

So you'd prefer kids to have 2 miserable parents

Re-read what I've said. Or better still respond by quoting exactly what I've said.

So you'd prefer kids to have 2 miserable parents rather than 1 happy and loving parent at home and another loving parent who's happy elsewhere and that they'd still get to see?

How about 2 parents as the 1st preference?
Anything after that a massive drop, say make 2 seperate happy parents prefernce number 100 or something?

Like the OP, my parents stayed together, partly for the kids and partly for other reasons maybe, I'm not sure, but they really shouldn't have

Ok, you had two parents that hated each other so much they made bad parents.
Is that what happened to the OP?

so saying that it's always best to stay together for the kids,

Im not saying that. Just that the alternative should be the last option. ie preference 100 on a scale of 1-10.

And what exactly do you define as a 'functioning relationship'?

Where the couple still make for good parents, provide a stable, loving environment for their kids. ................dont mind if I widen the definition as I go along here do ya?

Ok the husband and wife don't have to be madly in love ..............but there has to be love and trus

bit of a contradiction there. Explain?

If you think your parents should totally abandon all their own hopes of happiness

No, just that it comes secondary to their childs happiness. Whats best for their child. ie . being a selfless parent (which is the same thing as being a parent IMO)

then I'm glad you're not my daughter.

Im a bloke

Kids aint stupid anyway they will sense from a mile away when their parents are just going through the motions and that's not an environment that I'd like to bring up kids in.

Sorry. Define exactly to me what is wrong with the enviroment where parents "go through the motions" of parenting?

ie they love, educate, feed, stimulate their kids daily

This all in an enviroment where parents have ultimate respect for each other (maybe not same passionate love which any bloke over 35 can find in a younger woman)

But again I refer back to the OP's case in all of the above points.You're describing a different environment to make it similar to the one you were raised in, in order to make your points from a viewpoint of personal experience.

I wonder if you're unhappy in your marriage some day will you take such a hardline stance?

If I get married , decide to have kids, then yes.
Alternatively I wont get married and wont have kids.

foxyloxy

It sounds to me that there's an element of the "grass is greener". You say you love both of these women. If you loved your wife why start a relationship with another woman? Was this she only reason you left your marrige?
And if so, has this new relationship now become mundane and rountine so you are looking back on the good times now with nostalgia?
Maybe its the thrill of being wanted that you miss. You must be in your element now with two of them waiting for you to make up your mind.

You claim your wife deserves someone better than you, yet you think maybe you should get back together. Have you thought about what changes you need to make to be a better husband to her? How to be the person she "deserves"?

And if your wife was happy with someone at this stage what would you do? Sit on these feelings and drag the other poor girl along with you?

You seem sincere enough in that you desire is to do the right, but perhaps the damage has already been done.
But i would definitley consider speaking with a counsellor for your own well being. Good luck with your choices.

LegacyUser

Just as an update in case any one is interested.

I spoke to a therapist/ councillor on the phone who seemed very knowlegable and who came recommended. She informed me that she would highly recommend seeing a GP first who will correctly diagnose if I do suffer from depression. From the brief conversation I had with her she was of the opinion that I do but she gave me the name of a GP who she recommended highly and who she believes will correctly diagnose or not as the case may be.

She said that going to councilling is great for some people but some people who may suffer from depression and haven't been diagnosed or been given medication to treat it can suffer badly because they aren't prepared for the feelings that can come as a result of the therapy.

So I've a appointment with the GP this evening and I'll arrange to see her after I speak to him.

If nothing else will come of this it might let me know one way or another if I do suffer from depression. I'm not one of these people who wants to have depression so they can use it as an excuse. IMO depression gets thrown around willy nilly these days.
Truth be told I have to be near dying to see a GP and ordinarily I think therapy is for people who have more money than sense. But I'm prepare to do this in the hope that it will help.

aidan24326

OrangeOranges wrote:

how can a statement be sensible and BS at the same time?Re-read what I've said. Or better still respond by quoting exactly what I've said. How about 2 parents as the 1st preference?

The sensible bit was sarcasm. Lost on you obviously.

Anything after that a massive drop, say make 2 seperate happy parents prefernce number 100 or something? Ok, you had two parents that hated each other so much they made bad parents.
Is that what happened to the OP?Im not saying that. Just that the alternative should be the last option. ie preference 100 on a scale of 1-10.

Now you're just talking in riddles. And no I never said my parents hated each other just that I felt they'd have been better off separating years ago. Just my opinion, not everyone might agree with it.

Where the couple still make for good parents, provide a stable, loving environment for their kids. ................dont mind if I widen the definition as I go along here do ya?

Widen it all you like. What you describe is looking purely through the child's eyes though.

bit of a contradiction there. Explain?No, just that it comes secondary to their childs happiness. Whats best for their child. ie . being a selfless parent (which is the same thing as being a parent IMO)Im a blokeSorry. Define exactly to me what is wrong with the enviroment where parents "go through the motions" of parenting?
ie they love, educate, feed, stimulate their kids daily
This all in an enviroment where parents have ultimate respect for each other (maybe not same passionate love which any bloke over 35 can find in a younger woman)

This is where we seem to differ. I'm not disagreeing with you that children's welfare is extremely important. But you are of the opinion that the parents should completely sacrifice their own life and happiness just for their children. This is a worthy and noble attitude and obviously not something I could ever disagree with outright, but I'm only saying that it mightn't, just mightn't always be the right option for all concerned. And besides, aren't parents entitled to their own bit of happiness in life also? And if that becomes impossible with each other, then the option of separation is inevitably going to be on the table, even where there are kids involved.

Loving someone in a friendship/caring sort of way is not exactly the same thing as actually being in love with someone. So I don't see any contradiction.

But again I refer back to the OP's case in all of the above points.You're describing a different environment to make it similar to the one you were raised in, in order to make your points from a viewpoint of personal experience.

No I'm not. I was only using personal experience to back up my point that the issue isn't always as clear cut black and white as you like to think. Too many people hold it against their parents in later life for them having separated. And it's used as an excuse for all sorts of things. Ah sure he came from a broken home what else would he be only a serial killer/psycopath/social misfit/anything else you can think of. Quite often it's just an easy excuse.

If I get married , decide to have kids, then yes.
Alternatively I wont get married and wont have kids.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I get the impression you're coming at this from a religious angle, sanctity of marriage and all that. Are you telling me that even in a very unhappy marriage situation, where you no longer loved your wife, you would soldier on for the kids? If so then fair play to you, although I still don't totally agree that that's always the right option.

My own brother is in this situation. I know he no longer loves his wife all that much, though he'd scarcely admit it. Were there no kids involved I don't think they'd still be together. But he won't leave because there is 3 kids involved, and 2 of them are still pretty young. He thought about leaving but couldn't do it. So I can see that side of it aswell. I don't have kids as yet so I suppose I don't know how I'd feel/react until I was in that position myself. I hope I never am.

andrea

2 things OrangeOranges.

Firstly, where is position 100 on a scale of 1 to 10?

Secondly, assuming you meant 1 to 100, what options are at positions 2-99?
I presume you don't imagine that parents who can't live peacefully in the same house staying together "for the sake of the children" is a better option than them having separate, more healthy relationships with the children?