Things to look for with Builders

Endymion

squire1 wrote:

No problem, if you assume a domestic house build is a large job in today's industry then I can hardly expect you to grasp the concept of the importance of health and safety or how to navigate a web site.

wow, hostile. First I never said health and safety wasn't important. Secondly, your the one that can't read a website ( you had the wrong number of fatalities last year) and have yet to actually post a link to the figures you presented here.

Large/ small are relative terms btw. The problem here is that it is unreasonable to expect certain health and safety measures to be observed in ever situation where someone picks up a harmer or a paint brust. you say building a house is a small job, but there could be dozens of people working on that job.

btw, I love the logic where not small is the same as very large. I think you need to go back to primary school.

magpie

1) Hire an architect to draw up plans for all work to be carried out - this ensures that your building is solid, legal, safe and hopefully stylish. Not the classic Irish builder blockwork'n'plasterboard lean-to.
2) Instruct your architect to supervise the tender process for the job. He will insist on your builder having all proper insurances and be registered for VAT.
3) Instruct your architect to supervise the entire job - this is the only way to ensure that your building is being carried out properly - I'm constantly amazed by builders who tell clients "don't worry about the drawings, I've done this a thousand times and you don't need that supporting beam etc"
3) Enter into a standard RIAI contract with your builders - included in this will be a 10% fee retention - they get 5% of this on completion and 5% 12 months later - if nothing goes wrong. Its an incentive not to jerry build.
4) During the project your architect will issue interim certificates that state the amount of work done as a % of the overall cost and you will pay the builder in increments.

squire1

Carnivore wrote:

I think you need to go back to primary school.

Thankfully I'm on holidays at the moment. I have all my new pens and rulers bought already. See you there.

311

I'm sorry to have to say this ,but it's true . In the past 10 years I've been working on domestic jobs and sometimes with builders ,numerous times noticed no one wear the hats etc. All the jobs would be under 200K I suppose and would involve anything from rebuilds to extensions. There has never been any trouble from any builder in relation to completion or safety but on numerous occasions it would be a snotty young fellow from a fancy architect's company who would cause a lot of trouble ,both for the customer and the builder.

I would get an architect myself to draw up and be on site initially ,but to have one around all the time could be a pain in the a**e.

I do get the impression there are a number of desk jockeys that post here about building regulations and experience.

rooferPete

Hi Brian,

This desk jockey slid down a roof at the age of seven, being a lightweight I didn't break the gutters, a slating lath was passed down and I held on as I was pulled up to safety.

At seventeen I was G.F. building home extensions and re-roofing, I had that privilage because I could drive and had the company VW pick up as a bonus.

At eighteen I sold my first new roof, I had sold a lot of repair jobs before that but Ye never forget your first big sale, even if I say so myself it still looks good today.

I was selling and building extensions and roofs when you were but a twinkle in your Dad's eye, and yes it was not exactly within the law because back then the age of consent was 21 which meant any contract I signed was not valid.

This desk jockey has many qualifications (yes in writing) that many Architects and Engineers pay very nicely for the use of when they lose their way or just plain get out of their depth.

So I ask you nicely to please show a little respect to those who have gone before you, we took the gambles when we had no choice.

Many won but some very good tradesmen had accidents that ruined their lives that in hindsight could have so easily have been avoided.

BTW I haven't even hit what many call middle age and still learning, I can't speak for others but I do believe my experience far outways yours, as the older tradesmen used to say to me, "Look, Listen and Learn Sonny".

The Health and Safety Laws are there to be obeyed and if all those "Cowboys" you refer to haven't got the message maybe you will pass it on, the Laws are there for everybody's Protection.

Even your's.

.

AJL

Folks,

Some good constructive discussion here. I am not a monitor but would ask those trading personal jibes to take it elsewhere. Everybody is entitled to post their opinion.
Personally I am building a house. I have taken liability insurance. My opinion is that with a site safety notice up and keeping the place tidy that is my job done. If somebody is doing something to compromise my safety I will call it out. However we are all responsible for our own safety. I've enough to worry about and don't have time checking up on contractors etc. that's why I got insurance to cover my a**.
In saying that did point out to contractor that one of his employees used a skil saw without goggles. He told him to put them on.

Endymion

rooferPete wrote:

Hi Brian,

This desk jockey slid down a roof at the age of seven, being a lightweight I didn't break the gutters, a slating lath was passed down and I held on as I was pulled up to safety.

At seventeen I was G.F. building home extensions and re-roofing, I had that privilage because I could drive and had the company VW pick up as a bonus.

At eighteen I sold my first new roof, I had sold a lot of repair jobs before that but Ye never forget your first big sale, even if I say so myself it still looks good today.

I was selling and building extensions and roofs when you were but a twinkle in your Dad's eye, and yes it was not exactly within the law because back then the age of consent was 21 which meant any contract I signed was not valid.

This desk jockey has many qualifications (yes in writing) that many Architects and Engineers pay very nicely for the use of when they lose their way or just plain get out of their depth.

So I ask you nicely to please show a little respect to those who have gone before you, we took the gambles when we had no choice.

Many won but some very good tradesmen had accidents that ruined their lives that in hindsight could have so easily have been avoided.

BTW I haven't even hit what many call middle age and still learning, I can't speak for others but I do believe my experience far outways yours, as the older tradesmen used to say to me, "Look, Listen and Learn Sonny".

The Health and Safety Laws are there to be obeyed and if all those "Cowboys" you refer to haven't got the message maybe you will pass it on, the Laws are there for everybody's Protection.

Even your's.

.

I doubt he was talking about you. It's more the people that feel it the customers duty to enforce Health and safety on the builders. And who feel that anybody from a plumber to a painter that doesn't wear all the safety gear all the time, is a cowboy. Btw the age 21 thing has nothing to do with consent. Its the age at which you're parents are no longer financially responsible for you. It's still age 21, where as consent is something like 17.

311

Cheers carnivore,
Rooferpete ,I wasn't referring to you at all ,I'm talking about people who pass snardy comments to other people and in their defence throw out advice about who has what papers.I respect your post and don't consider myself any better than anyone here ,but I can say what I've seen on site and share the experiences I've had.

rooferPete

Hi Brian,

Thank you for the way you took my post which on reading it back even I regard it as bordering on a rant rather than a constructive contribution

Apologies for any offence I certainly didn't mean to cause any, you took that post directed at you with great maturity and I doubt it helped the O.P. much either.

I have seen some very good tradesmen cut down in their prime of life caused by what I can only describe as times of economic hardship when we were happy to get work at all.

Maybe instead of the fancy H & S signs that very few read a bigger one with wording like the following would have better effect.

Work Safe, Clean Up After You, tell Your Workmates about Any Hazards You See and we will all be sure to go home this evening.

Carnivore,

Point taken and understood the age of consent is now 18, any legal document like for example a loan form is not accepted until you reach that age, it used to be 21.

As AJL pointed out he saw what he regarded as an unsafe practice and brought it to the contractors attention, I believe it is the duty of every person on a job large or small to point out such incidents.

O.P.

I understand the position on self build projects is that you ensure every sub contractor has insurance cover in place as you may be regarded as an employer especially when you supply all the materials and scaffolding.

Insurance companies do not like paying out on large claims so I would advise that you double check the terms of the policy regarding liability.

.