Bustup with friend

LegacyUser

Hey all, this is pretty fresh in my mind, happened earlier this afternoon, am pretty badly shaken.

I have had a patchy relationship with the person who I would consider my best friend over the past year. I'm a guy, 28, she's a girl, similar age, we've known each other for almost ten years.

About a year ago, we had a pretty big argument. I felt that she was being antagonistic, trying to pick fights with me. I kind of exploded when she called me pretentious to her friend in front of me when I was complaining about the sound quality at the U2 concert last year, and sent her quite a nasty text the next day calling her a disrespectful b*tch. I regretted it later, sent
an apology a few hours later, we arranged to meet up the next day to talk things over.

I had quite a bit to get off my chest. I told her that I thought she was sneering at me because of my job (she was constantly sneering at the jargon used in my job. Which sounds like a little thing, but when someone develops a habit of interrupting your conversation by repeating phrases/terms you use, and rolling their eyes, it's annoying. It's worth pointing out that although
people who overuse jargon are extremely annoying, I'm aware of this, and rarely mention jargon outside work.) I told her I thought that she sometimes questioned my masculinity. I told her that she also seemed to be developing the opinion that I was pretentious. She didn't like any of this, and we left things pretty much unresolved.

That was a year ago. Things have not been the same since. The same antagonistic behaviour continued (to a certain extent). When we met up, it was horrible and awkward. I got a text from her last Sunday, asking if I thought we could ever go back to the old friendship. I replied that I hoped so, and we arranged to meet today.

Oh Jesus.

She started by saying that our friendship has withered over the last year, and that she was very sad about that. I replied likewise. I pointed out that her antaganostic behaviour was continuing. I'm not going into details, but as recently as the previous time we met up several days ago, she started on me, saying that comments I'd made about a friend of hers were "trite and inappropriate". Her friend is thinking of moving abroad with her partner for a career move of his. I said that I hoped it worked out for her, life is change, we have to step outside of our comfort zones from time to time, etc. Cue "That's really trite and inappropriate.", maybe it is, but I'm just trying to make pleasant, positive small talk. I considered her response to be
overly antagonistic.

I pointed out this incident to her today. She claims she barely recalls it, certainly wasn't trying to pick an argument. I pointed out other incidents, where I felt she was being clearly antagonistic, such as when I was telling a story about something I saw on tv, and she twisted it to imply I was making an anti-rural slur (the only connection between my story and rural life was that the program was nationwide). She then said tha lots of people enjoyed
this program, and maybe if you're a "<adopt mocking tone><insert job title here> in <insert workplace here>" you won't enjoy it. This was a bit sharp because I'd told her previously that I thought she was insulting me occasionally because of some grudge she held against me due to my work.

She denies being antagonistic, claims a dim recollection of these events (which is ok, because it might be sharp as a tack in my mind, but not in hers), but then goes on to say that she's sick of me branding her a bitch and a liar. Which is not true. I don't judge her exclusively on these events. I know that what I've said so far doesn't paint a positive picture of her,
but I do think she's great. She's been a fantastic friend, I really admire her as a person, up until recently loved spending time with her. She seemingly now wants nothing to do with me, says what's the point if it's just the same old story a year on from when we first bust up.

What do I do here? This friendship is very important to me. I want it to continue, and although she's said that over the past year there's been a somewhat poisonous atmosphere between us, I want to believe that there's a future for us. Am I being naive?

Thanks for taking the time to read if you've got to this point, and any advice is greatly appreciated.

LegacyUser

Why not stop here when she says somthing that gets at you?

If she rejects your opinion because of your job say "Hold on a minute, why does my opinion not matter just because I am an X" or whatever. This will put a stop to that time element in an arguement that can turn it into "Oh, I didn't say that, it was more like "Tee-hee-hee, what does an <insert job here> know" in a light-hearted tone.

When she does it, bring it up, otherwise the arguement becomes too diluted.

You both want to fix this, so I don't see why it is not possible.
Good luck.

Huggles

Jebus.

It seems to me that you two just wind each other up no end!

It also seems to me that she is jealous of your job, whatever it is, she seems to have a huge problem with it.

I had a similar thing with an ex friend of mine, she was always putting me down because I was doing so well, in the end i was suffering huge self-doubt cause of her and I had to walk away.

TBH it sounds like you do not have any sort of future together as friends, she seems intent on winding you up and you will always take the bait.

My advice is to just walk away. Its hard, I have been there but the hassle and agro isn't worth it.

foxyloxy

Often friendhsips change dymanics when one person moves on and one is left behind.
It sounds as though your friend has a chip on her shoulder, all her comments seem to centre around your job as "x" and the language you use to communicate.
That said, if it has dwindled over the last year, maybe you need to consider moving on and finding people who respect you, and you in turn. No matter what sort of disagreements i'd have with friends either male or female, i'd be horrified if i made a comment where they responded that i was a bitch.
Sounds more destructive than healthy i'm afraid.

Miss Fluff

Sounds like she has a bit of a chip on her shoulder about your career tbh.

Unhappy friend

I accept that calling her a bitch was totally unacceptable. The text was sent when I was angry and emotional. It doesn't excuse it, it explains it a bit.

I agree that she *seems* to be jealous of my job. I can see why:

1. My job involves a bit of foreign travel. This was something that she wanted from her work when she was younger, but does not have in the job she chose.

2. My job is very laid back in terms of the hours I work. I can come and go as I like. Her routine over the past two years has been hectic to say the least.

3. I'm working at the moment in something that I'd planned on doing since I was in secondary school (though for how much longer...that's another story!) She's had to make a big effort to change careers.

I think that the work jealousy thing is at the root of this. It wasn't nipped in the bud, and now it's grown out of all proportion.

I agree the situation looks bad. I want us to have a good future, because of our wonderful past. I've never had a better friend. I still greatly admire her. But I am angry that my grievances are not being dealt with. I told her she was being antagonistic, and she starts asking me why do I want to be friends with her if I think she's a bitch and a liar. I say I don't think you're these things, I don't judge you exclusively on these comments you made that offended me. She's very emotional and pissed off, and rejects this. I say I want us to be friends, she says whats the point if it's going to be the same old, same old as the last year. She thinks that I'm constantly scrutinising what she's saying for ammo to use in arguments, and is not relaxed around me.

God, this is ugly as f*ck and it depresses me just writing about it.

I'm getting paranoid that maybe my job *is* bringing out unpleasantness in me. I went on holidays last year with another very good mate. It turned out to be a *disaster*, he turned out to be very competitive about work, when I started talking about my work, he almost started "testing" me, asking me technical questions that he picks out of the air, then dismisses me as a know-nothing when I can't answer his questions. Tells me I wouldn't be good at all in a particular line of work which would be a natural progression from what I'm doing, based on fairly f*cking spurious criteria. Two very good friends in a short space of time turning on you because of your job? It's enough to raise suspicion.

My job isn't even glamourous, and I'm not what people would call particularly successful! It's just that I work in Trinity (which seems to provoke in some people the notion that you're an arrogant, elitist w*nker, which I most certainly am not) and because I'm doing a PhD I have an extra few letters after my name (which my second mate seemed to have a problem with). But I'm beginning to spiral into stream-of-consciousness gibberish now, so I'll stop.

I'll write my friend an email tomorrow, we need to sort this out. It hasn't been resolved since last year, we've been skirting the issue. I'm not a confrontational person, I haven't handled this particular issue well, I hope that something can be pulled out of the fire. Maybe I'm just naive though.

Any further comments are very much appreciated, and thanks guys for the comments you've taken the time to make so far.

Moojuice

"she's been a fantastic friend, I really admire her as a person, up until recently loved spending time with her. She seemingly now wants nothing to do with me, says what's the point if it's just the same old story a year on from when we first bust up."

Tell her what you have said (I quoted it above) and leave it at that. Tell her how you feel and it is up to her, if she thinks you are wrong about how she is treating you, ask her why she thinks you feel this way. Sometimes people do not realise how much they mean to us and hence how easily their actions affect us.

I am doing a PHD, life is a lot better since but I am not aware of any one begrudging me and if they did then my response is "**** you!" I made my choice they made theirs, if they are unhappy about what they do then they should do something about it rather than being jealous.

Have you guys ever been in a relationship with each other or had anything sexual happen? There could be some unresolved sexual tension going on.

All in all, if she is a negative influence in your life so tell her to sort herself out and tell you the truth of why she treats you like that or walk away. I had too many negative people draggig me down when I was younger. Cut them out and walked away. Best thing I ever did, still see and talk to them but its not the same and I would not want it to be. Sometimes it has to be done. You need to ask is she really your friend if she treats you like that?

Unhappy friend

We snogged a few times when we first met all those years ago. I made another move on her three years ago, which was rejected. We talked it over, and it was settled quite amicably. She also flashed me her breasts once.

That's the sum of what's happened between us sexually. I'd be surprised if it was an issue.

Huggles

Just a quick question OP do you talk about your job all the time? or even do you find most of your convos are centred around your work?

Strokesfan

Sometimes people are just toxic - she sounds a bit catty and that can wear you down over time... it's a tough one but you have to figure out that if it can't be resolved whether you should just walk away.
I had a friend who kept slaggin me off and eventually I just cut her off, in fact a series of people cut her off and sometimes they still don't see or want to see what they are doing wrong.
Maybe go out with the friend, get really drunk, cry, tell them you love them to bits and don't want a distance between ye... make a conscious effort to stop the back biting comments between each other...Everybody falls out with other people it's not just all you.

Giblet

I think the most you can do here is offer her up a sincere explantion of why you act the way you do and what bothers you about her reactions. If you do sound condesending, pretentious to her or whatever, try explain that even though you have opinions on certain things they are just your opinions and beyond that you don't care whatever people think. I've run into people like this before. A lot of the time it's "wrong end of the stick" type stuff. Sometimes they can't stand someone so set in their ways or so opinionated on things; especially if it goes against their opinion or popular opinion. Are you around 22-24, leaving college and getting a job situation? This can cause a lot of tension and competition to see who is most successful. True friends would not be hung up on such bull. I'd congratulate someone of being successful if I was a mate, not begrudge them. Mates don't compete when it comes down to serious things like that.

I think that anything you would send as a peace offering or whatever would show great strength and resolve. You want their friendship, if they can't accept that, it's their problem.

Unhappy friend

I don't talk about my job all the time. Certainly not now, when it's become clear that there's some kind of issue there. Before, not a whole lot either. No more than anyone else I guess. My work is *extremely* technical, I couldn't talk about it at length with her.

I'm slightly resentful of the way in which my words were twisted on occasion. In my previous research position, I was working totally on my own, with no other colleagues in the research project, and a very distant relationship with my supervisor. This position is completely different in that I have lots of colleagues I work with closely. I made a comment one night about how great it was to work in a big group, and how great it was to be involved in one of the biggest research activities in my field in Europe. She picked this up totally the wrong way. I meant it was great to have the direction, peer support, and mentoring (both formal and informally) that you'll have in a large organised project as opposed to when you're literally working on your own. This comment was thrown back in my face at a later date. "Nationwide probably wouldn't appeal to <sarcastic tone> someone doing a PhD in the largest research project in Europe".

I mean, everybody talks about their work. And I hate that my enthusiasm for my job was distorted. I honestly don't feel I bang on about my job too much.

We're not 22-24, we're both around 28. Thing is, she's just finishing up her second college course, so maybe she's feeling the pressure of having to compete with her friends career/status/money wise (I get that impression). God knows why she'd feel threatened by me on that front however, I'm a year older, am wilfully putting career on hold while I do something because I find it interesting, stimulating, and which allows me to spend a bit more time in college and enjoy the privileges of college life for a little longer (again, I feel that this might be causing friction between us).

I think that she did/does have some kind of issue with what I was doing work-wise (repeating words from my conversation in a sarcastic tone, clucking her tongue, etc.). I was talking one night about how happy I was that I had a paper accepted for a conference, how it was good for your academic record. Cue tongue clucking, head-shaking, and her repeating the words "academic record" in an extremely sarcastic tone of voice. I'm really p*ssed off, because I can understand how what I'm saying in this thread might start alarm bells ringing in some peoples heads that I'm some kind of up-my-arse wannabe academic (he's from Trinity? Is enthusiastic about working in research? Talks about his publication record?), but I'm not, and I think it's unfair that my genuine, innocent enthusiasm for my work is being distorted like this. It reminds of a thread I saw a while ago where a student doctor was being attacked for expressing her views on some medical conference ("god you doctors are all the same, drop the god complex, you think you're god's gift, blahblahblah"). I understand that certain jobs provoke a reaction in people, but aren't your best friends supposed to be able to see past superficial things like your job, where you work, etc?

But I swear to f*ck, I don't define myself by my job, I don't go on and on and on about my job (despite the impression this thread may give), god I don't know. It's so hard to be friends with someone who's catty and bitchy about your work (amongst other random crap) and protests innocence when you call them on it.

I'm sorry to go on and on like this. But I just need to rant, and this isn't something that's simple. Or at least it doesn't seem simple to me.

Argh.

Wing Walker

Sounds like I know this girl. Around the same age too!

Look, she has a problem with you. Whatever it is, she doesn't want to tell you. Why are you even bothering? You both left it a year and then tried to go back and fix it. It hasn't worked. You need to save your time and energy for both your research and friends who actually want to spend time with you. Just because you know someone for 10 years doesn't mean that things can't change.

Leave her to it and just get your head in order. You don't need this crap.

Peace

You said it yourself dude, life is change... Say bu bye. Why do you want someone in your life who is constantly pissing on you & what you do?

Kell

Wing Walker wrote:

Leave her to it and just get your head in order. You don't need this crap.

Amen.

I cant quite get it through my skull why you would attempt to waste any more time and effort on someone who from the sounds of it, has virtually no respect for you whatsoever.

She could be one of those fúck wits who instead of saying "I really like you" treats you exactly the opposite in order to protect themselves from possible rejection. But you know what? Who gives a fúck.

I would very much forget about her.

K-

Beruthiel

Wing Walker wrote:

Look, she has a problem with you. Whatever it is, she doesn't want to tell you..

I'd have to agree with that.
You both don't act like friends, ye are acting more like a couple who are going through a rough patch because one of ye has an issue with the other that hasn't been discussed yet.
I'm guessing the line between 'friendship' and 'something else' have become very blurred

oulu

If she has to walk on eggshells with you then she is better of without you as a friend.Does she have to say something to herself before saying it to you just so she wont upset you.

magpie

Get a room

tbh

Unhappy friend wrote:

This friendship is very important to me. I want it to continue, and although she's said that over the past year there's been a somewhat poisonous atmosphere between us, I want to believe that there's a future for us. Am I being naive? .

Why is the friendship important to you? the friendship is what it is now, and has been for the last year, not what it was before that. The way ye were before things started going wrong is probably gone forever. All the incidents you have described form scar tissue, and once it's too far gone, you'll never get it back - in my experience anyway. Ye were friends once, you've both changed, and it looks like the people you have become are incompatabile. If you had just met this girl six months ago, you wouldn't put up with this behaviour. It happens. Move on.

Unhappy friend

Yes, I think that she's not being 100% up front with me. We had an argument a few weeks before I sent her the nasty text message, where I accused her of slagging my masculinity. In fairness, I did blow this out of proportion, and I feel it's very important I make her realise this, and that I'm sorry I did. At the time, we resolved the argument pronto. She said she didn't realise that what she was saying was hurtful, she'd be more careful in future. Bingo, problem solved.

A few weeks later, when I sent the nasty text, I told her that I thought she was being unfair and snide to me over my job. She didn't acknowledge this. She still hasn't. She was very hurt by this. She now says that she feels she has to censor herself around me, and that it's no fun being around a person when you feel like that. Oulus post is *bang* on the money. She feels that she has to walk on eggshells around me, that I have this notion that she's waging some kind of campaign against me. But it just isn't true!

I'm just pissed off that the two issues have become tangled into one. One of these issues (slagging me off for not being a "manly" man or some nonsense like that) was a result of me being overly sensitive. The other issue (her slagging me off over my job) is a very real issue in my eyes, and not a figment of my imagination. I found her comments and insinuations that I was pretentious and elitist insulting, and when I called her on it, she doesn't even acknowledge that these comments could be interpreted as being hurtful. I'm pissed off with myself now, because her problem with me is that she feels that I'm constantly scrutinising what she's saying, and that I'm being very judgmental. And this issue just isn't black and white. She's right that it was unfair of me to hassle her because of the one thing, but I still strongly feel that the other issue is *real*, and that she's totally avoiding the subject.

It has been a year, but we've not been in much contact. We both lead seperate, busy lives. This thing is playing out over a much longer timescale because of that I think. Or am I kidding myself???

And I know people are saying that I should forget about her and move on. But I've been friends (very good friends) with this person for the guts of a decade. She's almost like a sister to me. I don't want to nonchalantly throw away whatever chance we may have of salvaging something. I'm thinking of waiting a few days, then sending her a long email trying to explain my position, inviting her to talk it out. I suppose it's in the lap of the gods.

ferdi

she obviously has the hots for you and this is how she is dealing with it.

Black Swan

You may be completely innocent in your relations with your friend, and she may be at fault, but it normally takes two to tango. Try putting yourself in her shoes and attempt to see yourself from her perspective. Is there anything that you do that might provoke the behaviour she is exhibiting? Perhaps or perhaps not? Just a thought.

Zapho

magpie wrote:

Get a room

I was just going to say that
Is it possible that she's developed feelings for you after all this time she's known you and she's denying it by being bitchy to you?

Unhappy friend

ferdi wrote:

she obviously has the hots for you and this is how she is dealing with it.

No offence, but are yourself and magpie twelve or something?

Nah, seriously, not a chance of this. She's had a long-term, live-in boyfriend with whom she is very happy with and has been very happy with for years now. Bear in mind we're 28. Mature 28 year olds don't generally express attraction to someone via stoney silences, snide comments, antagonism, and blazing arguments.

Blue Lagoon: you're right, I must be doing something wrong. This isn't the friend I know. But communication has just broken down between us. We've dodged the issues between us for a year. But it was my friend who sent me the text on Sunday, asking if we could ever go back to the old friendship. And she said yesterday that the fact that our friendship has withered made our sad. It makes me sad too, I'm as devastated as if my sister turned around to me and said she never wanted to speak to me. It's just that our "talk-it-out" session yesterday went to hell pretty quickly. It just degenerated into defensiveness, aggression, god...she said that I thought she was a bitch and a liar...I say I don't, I'm not judging you exclusively on what's happened between us...she says that like calling someone a rapist, and saying but I like you because you're a nice rapist.

God. Ugly. Ugly. Ugly.

I'd like to think that there's this unpleasantness between us that's just been festering, and that not talking about it has made it worse, and that maybe, *somehow*, there might be a path to reconciliation.