Vodafone, Sony Ericsson and Sigma Wireless

Sam Vimes

Dylan_James wrote:

"She’s not calling you a liar, she's calling you wrong. No one ever thinks they let moisture got on the phone, yet their corroded circuit board tells a different story"

Corroded circuit board or not Vimes there’s a difference between moisture and getting your phone wet. Moisture can never be the owners fault and I don’t believe Vodafone or the rest of them should even try to give customers this spiel. Otherwise you have dropped your phone in a big puddle of water and therefore it’s completely your fault. Originally I posted this thread to find other people who have had a similar experience and I have found them. Other posters here have either;

moisture might not be the owners fault but all the repair company sees is a corroded circuit board. they don't know whether it was caused by sweat or a bucket

Dylan_James wrote:

"And I’ve had my phone in the rain and so on. it's luck of the draw. Sometimes it'll get water damaged, sometimes it won't. I’ve never managed to water damage a phone but it happens all the time"

So why is it the luck of the draw? Why is it that someone with a Nokia and someone with a SE can go out walking and talking in the rain one day and one of them ends up with a broken phone?

the luck of the draw has nothing to do with the brand. two people could go out with the same phone. moisture could get into one but not the other. or moisture could get into both and not touch a critical part of one phone. its like asking why one person died in a car crash but not the other

Dylan_James wrote:

Simple answer really Vimes is that these companies are making and selling phones that can’t stand Irish weather. Even Pythia agreed with that a few posts back
.

maybe they are. however, it says that the warranty doesn't cover moisture damage. there's no way it could because electronics and water don't mix. if you know that its impossible to avoid moisture in irish weather, don't buy it

let's put it this way: if you had a pocket sized, battery powered toaster, would you carry it around with you in irish weather?


i had to walk home from work in the rain the other day. before i left rooted out a plastic bag put my phone in it. i know moisture destroys phones so i do everything i can to avoid it

Buceph

Commander Vimes wrote:

moisture might not be the owners fault but all the repair company sees is a corroded circuit board. they don't know whether it was caused by sweat or a bucket


the luck of the draw has nothing to do with the brand. two people could go out with the same phone. moisture could get into one but not the other. or moisture could get into both and not touch a critical part of one phone. its like asking why one person died in a car crash but not the other


maybe they are. however, it says that the warranty doesn't cover moisture damage. there's no way it could because electronics and water don't mix. if you know that its impossible to avoid moisture in irish weather, don't buy it

let's put it this way: if you had a pocket sized, battery powered toaster, would you carry it around with you in irish weather?


i had to walk home from work in the rain the other day. before i left rooted out a plastic bag put my phone in it. i know moisture destroys phones so i do everything i can to avoid it

First off, the warranty means **** all. When you buy it in a shop, the contract is with them, not the manufacturer. As someone who posts on a consumer issues board I thought you would have understood that by now.

Secondly, and the main point, is that these phones are in no way mobile if what you are saying is true. The defeat their own purpose. And that it can happen at such a level is a scam.

chrislad

I remember when a guy came into me, with his 6101 dripping wet. He was swearing and blinding and saying how the phone was useless and we were ripping him off. Another time, a girl came him complaining her pink V3 wasn't working. Opened the back of it, and the moisture indicator was literally melting off! The IMEI sticker was also shriveled up! I asked her if she got the phone wet, and she said "No. I was only talking on it outside". I looked outside and it was pissing out of the heavens.

I'm not going to blame the climate, as that's a stupid excuse. I don't think it's valid except in cases when you're talking in the rain or whatever. We certainly don't have the kind of humidity that would destroy a phone. I also think the OP is being a bit OTT with his 'So it's not really a mobile phone then!?' slant. I've had a load of phones. In the last year, probably at least once a month, I've changed my phone. I've had Nokia, Sony Ericsson, Samsung, Motorola and so-to-be, an LG. I have had absolutely no problems with an moisture, water, liquid, whatever you want to call it. Yes, I've gotten rain drops on my phone if I was talking on it, and it started to rain, but I always put it away. I've seen people talking while the heavens open above them and their phone is clearly getting soaked. Would you use a TV in the rain? People do get way too defensive over their phones, and having working in a variety of retail environments, from computer games to grocery to stationary to newsagents, I can definitely say that mobile phone customers are by far the most unstable and are more likely to snap. They quite simply do not realise that phones are sensitive electronic equipment.

I'm not saying the the OP dropped his phone in the river, but he has, as all of us have, more than likely left the phone on a window sill, brought it into the bathroom when having a shower etc. I'm not going to comment on Sigma as it's not very professional for me to do so.

Anywho, best of luck with whatever you're trying with Vodafone. Obviously, you feel agrieved with Sigma, and you may have a right to be, but I honestly don't see this going anywhere.

secret_squirrel

chrislad wrote:

Obviously, you feel agrieved with Sigma, and you may have a right to be, but I honestly don't see this going anywhere.

I tend to agree. The moisture damage is a side issue.

Its the fact that sigma (a so called repair center) seems to have in this case used it as an excuse to do f*ck all with the phone, whereas the OP (a complete novice) fixed it in 2 mins.

This suggests that either Sigma are liars and there was no water damage, or that they are incompetent.

OP having a go at Vodafone wont solve anything. You have bee in your bonnet about moisture damage even though you dont KNOW your phone was moisture damaged without getting a second opinion.

You are letting your anger sidetrack you. Take a deep breath and try to think what you want out of this.

Personally I would be looking to make a complaint about Sigma, if I could prove that my phone wasnt water damaged.

Sam Vimes

Buceph wrote:

First off, the warranty means **** all. When you buy it in a shop, the contract is with them, not the manufacturer. As someone who posts on a consumer issues board I thought you would have understood that by now.

if the warranty means **** all why do warranties exist?

yes your contract is with the shop but their contract is with the manufacturer. if they don't follow the manufacturers warranty, whose will they follow?

why should they take back the phone if the manufacturer won't take it from them? then they're making a loss because the manufacturer didn't make the phone waterproof.

the phone got moisture in it. the manufacturer says in big betters "DON'T GET MOISTURE IN THE PHONE" so in what way does the warranty mean **** all? why should you get a refund when something was done to the phone that the manufacturer specifically said will break it?

lets say you bought a hair dryer (or whatever) in america, brought it home and plugged it in here. of course it would explode because of the incorrect voltage. it says in the manual "only for 110 volts" but according to you that means **** all. would you be entitled to a refund then?

Buceph wrote:

Secondly, and the main point, is that these phones are in no way mobile if what you are saying is true. The defeat their own purpose. And that it can happen at such a level is a scam.

the phones are mobile. you just have to be careful with them. i put it away as soon as it rains and get a plastic bag if possible. i never have it in the bathroom during a shower. i don't bring it on dance floors on the yearly occasions i'm dragged onto one etc etc. its just takes common sense

secret_squirrel wrote:

I tend to agree. The moisture damage is a side issue.

Its the fact that sigma (a so called repair center) seems to have in this case used it as an excuse to do f*ck all with the phone, whereas the OP (a complete novice) fixed it in 2 mins.

This suggests that either Sigma are liars and there was no water damage, or that they are incompetent.

this isn't exactly right. sigma get paid by sony to fix phones under warranty. a moisture damaged phone has had its warranty voided and so sigma won't get paid for fixing it. the fact that the problem had nothing to do with the damage is irrelevant.

asking sigma to fix a water damaged phone is asking them to fix it for free. they would have opened the phone, saw the damage and stopped working. they wouldn't have got as far as trying to fix the problem

Buceph

Commander Vimes wrote:

if the warranty means **** all why do warranties exist?

yes your contract is with the shop but their contract is with the manufacturer. if they don't follow the manufacturers warranty, whose will they follow?

why should they take back the phone if the manufacturer won't take it from them? then they're making a loss because the manufacturer didn't make the phone waterproof.

Why? BECAUSE IT'S THE ****ING LAW!

the phone got moisture in it. the manufacturer says in big betters "DON'T GET MOISTURE IN THE PHONE" so in what way does the warranty mean **** all? why should you get a refund when something was done to the phone that the manufacturer specifically said will break it?

The amount of ways you can get moisture in your phone is so broad as to make it impossible to use the phone safely. That's what the problem is. They are not of a build quality to do what they are meant to do. Yes the manufacturer states certain things in the booklet. But firstly, that's after you've bought the phone, so they can't impose any contract on to you if you already have one for the phone.

Secondly, it would seem to be standard practice for phones to be used outside and in pubs and places where moisture could get into it. Because it is standard practice, the product has to be up to that, and it's not. Standard practices can be deemed to be part of the contract and it must be speifically stated for them not to be included, and that never happens.

asking sigma to fix a water damaged phone is asking them to fix it for free. they would have opened the phone, saw the damage and stopped working. they wouldn't have got as far as trying to fix the problem

THE PHONE WASN'T WATER DAMAGED! It was working fine apart from a code that needed to be changed. The company didn't examine the phone properly.

secret_squirrel

I dont really want to get side tracked on the moisture issue which I feel is at best an excuse by Sigma in this case, but I would observe that the Sale of Goods Acts requires a product to be fit for its purpose.

Any phone that sustains water damage during normal use (ie not dropped in puddles, pints, toilets etc, not rained on etc) isnt fit for its purpose and should be returned for a full refund regardless of how little warantee or not is left on it.

Gillo

Circles, Circles, Circles. Are we not just going around and around here.

OP; in one sentence what do you hope to achieve from this. You've stated IYO what happened, now clearly and without waffle, what do you want to see happen?

Vimes, might be a bit extreme putting your phone in a bag but it has worked so far; good man.

For the record there are one or two waterproof phones on the market, there are also waterproof houseing available. Any customer I have shown them to have all said "but they are too big", it's a no win situation you want a small phone but it has to have full waterproof seals.

bmaxi

The amount of ways you can get moisture in your phone is so broad as to make it impossible to use the phone safely. That's what the problem is. They are not of a build quality to do what they are meant to do. Yes the manufacturer states certain things in the booklet. But firstly, that's after you've bought the phone, so they can't impose any contract on to you if you already have one for the phone.

Absolutely. In my opinion anybody who dips his 'phone in his pint or drops it down the loo is not entitled to a repair or refund under warranty but to class somebody carrying one in his breast pocket on a hot summer's day as being equally negligent is laughable.
If you can damage something designed to be carried in your pocket, simply by carrying it in your pocket, then clearly it is not fit for the purpose it was designed. Q.E.D.
I don't profess to speak for the OP but I think he has stated that he is not seeking compensation from Vodafone or anyone else, that he is just exposing a cop out, I,for one, support him in this

Sam Vimes

Buceph wrote:

Why? BECAUSE IT'S THE ****ING LAW!

how is it the law? it says water damage invalidates the warranty. you were provided with documentation that said that when you bought it. you could have refused to accept that warranty and returned it for a full refund at the time but you didn't. by not returning the phone, you accepted that clause of the warranty and so aren't legally entitled to a refund.

Buceph wrote:

The amount of ways you can get moisture in your phone is so broad as to make it impossible to use the phone safely. That's what the problem is. They are not of a build quality to do what they are meant to do. Yes the manufacturer states certain things in the booklet. But firstly, that's after you've bought the phone, so they can't impose any contract on to you if you already have one for the phone.

they can impose a contract after you've bought it. you had two weeks to read the warranty, refuse to accept it and return the phone. i agree that phones should be more robust to water. its crap that your phone can break because of humidity but it the manufacturers state this weakness in the warranty. as with any product or service, if you don't accept the terms then don't buy it. but you have to refuse to accept it before it breaks. what your suggesting is like taking out car insurance after a crash

here's what you want:
http://www.vodafone.ie/phonestariffs/ourphones/phonedetails.jsp?mysterons=5140I&type=all

in fact even that one only says splash "resistant"

Buceph wrote:

THE PHONE WASN'T WATER DAMAGED! It was working fine apart from a code that needed to be changed. The company didn't examine the phone properly.

i've explained that already. i know they didn't examine it properly. they didn't examine it properly because the moisture damage voided the warranty and so they wouldn't get paid for examining it. their first step in any repair is to check for water damage. if they find any, they stop working.

Sam Vimes

bmaxi wrote:

Absolutely. In my opinion anybody who dips his 'phone in his pint or drops it down the loo is not entitled to a repair or refund under warranty but to class somebody carrying one in his breast pocket on a hot summer's day as being equally negligent is laughable.

true, someone who goes for a swim with his phone is more to blame but all the repair people see is the damage. they don't know how it was caused

bmaxi

but all the repair people see is the damage. they don't know how it was caused

Yes you have made that point before. I think we are at cross purposes here ,I don't have a problem with the technician saying the 'phone is water damaged, my problem is the ease with which it can become water damaged.

ozt9vdujny3srf

Commander Vimes wrote:

their first step in any repair is to check for water damage. if they find any, they stop working.

That in itself is a big problem. Thats like saying if the screen is slightly scratched then there is damage to the phone and so nothing on it can be fixed.

If a phone has been effected by wear and tear (i.e. a bit of corrosion taht doesn't effect the devices operation) that is in some way completely unrelated to what the problem is, then that should be fixed.

Sam Vimes

Erik Tart Kite wrote:

That in itself is a big problem. Thats like saying if the screen is slightly scratched then there is damage to the phone and so nothing on it can be fixed.

If a phone has been effected by wear and tear (i.e. a bit of corrosion taht doesn't effect the devices operation) that is in some way completely unrelated to what the problem is, then that should be fixed.

i think it should but sigma wouldn't get paid for doing it. the phone has no warranty and they only get paid for fixing phones under warranty

besides that, once a phone has water damage, the chances of fixing it are negligible. the problem might have nothing to do with the damage but its not economical to spend an hour working on a phone on the off-chance the water damage isn't what's causing the problem

they might attempt to fix a water damaged phone if you pay them

Sam Vimes

bmaxi wrote:

Yes you have made that point before. I think we are at cross purposes here ,I don't have a problem with the technician saying the 'phone is water damaged, my problem is the ease with which it can become water damaged.

the OP was saying that sigma should repair the phone. what you're saying is a different matter entirely.


i don't buy motorola phones because they always break. if you don't like the fact that phones can be easily water damaged, don't buy a phone or buy this. if they were able to make the phones waterproof they would but phones need to have holes for the keypad, speakers and pop port. its just about impossible to make a phone that's both usable and waterproof. the 5140i is the closest they can get

secret_squirrel

Commander Vimes wrote:

its crap that your phone can break because of humidity but it the manufacturers state this weakness in the warranty. as with any product or service,

Thats irrelevant. Regardless of what it says in any warantee or even if it says it in mile high letters outside the shop, - if in a Courts opinion - a phone is not fit for the purpose it is sold, in this case Normal Phone use in Ireland, then the customer is entitled to whatever compensation the Court deems fit.

Regardless of what it says in a warantee or contract - it cannot take away your basic consumer rights under law.

The only get out the manufacturer or retailer has is that few (if any) people would choose to take it this far.

You shouldnt mistake what is customary for what your legal rights actually are.

Post the same question in Legal Discussions if you dont believe me.

Gillo

secret_squirrel wrote:

Thats irrelevant. Regardless of what it says in any warantee or even if it says it in mile high letters outside the shop, - if in a Courts opinion - a phone is not fit for the purpose it is sold, in this case Normal Phone use in Ireland, then the customer is entitled to whatever compensation the Court deems fit.

Regardless of what it says in a warantee or contract - it cannot take away your basic consumer rights under law..

Quote me one court case in Ireland which has sided with a phone that has been found to be moisture damaged.

bmaxi

the OP was saying that sigma should repair the phone. what you're saying is a different matter entirely.

At this point we were discussing hypothetical 'phones that had been dipped in pints and taken for a swim, the OP disputes water damage.

secret_squirrel

gillo wrote:

Quote me one court case in Ireland which has sided with a phone that has been found to be moisture damaged.

Quote me one that hasnt.

Strangely enough its not an issue that goes to court very often. That doesnt take away the truth of my remarks.

If you dont believe them get a legal expert to refute what I have said in this thread.

bmaxi

i don't buy motorola phones because they always break.

Design flaw?

its just about impossible to make a phone that's both usable and waterproof. the 5140i is the closest they can get

And what prohibitively expensive piece of technological genius did they employ to get it even to that stage, considering they are selling it for €159.

Nobody, I think, expects their 'phone to be waterproof, we do expect it to function in everyday life, under conditions we can expect to encounter.

Dylan_James

Jaysus I didn’t even know this thread went this far, I stopped getting emails awhile back about it.

OK as I said I wrote to Sigma, VF and SE and as far as I know I can post all the replies here without worry.

Simply I talked to the Operations manager in Vodafone for about 30 mins, I think I already posted the basic conversation here. The attitude I was given was "well that’s our warranty and you broke it, your phone is still working and your should be happy, f*ck off you muppet do gooder"

After providing SE with IMEA number for the phone, a week later they emailed back saying that "we stand by Sigmas technicians and their decision to invalidate your warranty."

Ok to Vimes and Gillo who for some reason post on consumer rights boards without actually knowing anything about consumer rights (ask them about phones and I'm sure they know their stuff), warranties mean nothing, you don’t sign a warranty, you don’t have to even read a warranty. Some descent companies give you a warranty with their product as away of you returning the damaged item for a free repair, replacement or refund no questions asked usually within a year of purchase. When a warranty states you will invalidate a warranty by doing this, that and the other, what does that mean?

It means the COMPANIES warranty is invalid. No questions asked cause has gone out the window with them. It does not mean your consumer rights are effected in anyway. Never will a warranty be brought up in court for a judge to view. Same way if you work for Vodafone you probably signed a contract with them when you started your employment. Now this contract can say you must do this and that but it’s not legally binding in anyway. Your employment rights are binding. Legally that’s sound.

ozt9vdujny3srf

As far as I know, I've read his somewhere) electronics must come with a one year warranty by law.

dudara

People, this thread is over a year old. Please leave it die unless you have directly related advice.

pyramuid man

Why dont you take mother nature to the SCC for damaging your phone???

dudara

pyramuid man Please read the charter with regard to posting in this forum and heed my previous post.

dudara

Guy:Incognito

Erik Tart Kite wrote: »

As far as I know, I've read his somewhere) electronics must come with a one year warranty by law.

Jesus, if your goign to use a shovel to excavate a year old thread, at least read it.

Plus , water damage invalidates the warranty anyway.

Dylan_James wrote: »

. I have had the phone more then a year now .

Dudara before issueign bannings , notice I was replying with a related reply.:)