MILAN in champions league!!

BOHSBOHS

looks like milan will be in the champions league this year after all

i hear milans new chant for next year will be
" i got friends in high places ....."

ridiculous..... corruption pays!!

randomname

I could see this happening....Corruption does pay indeed.

Seaneh

ahhhhhhhhhhh............ shuddup!

therecklessone

Terribly intelligent reply Seaneh.

Its a disgraceful decision, seems crime does pay after all.

Seaneh

It's called not throwing th baby out with the bath water by over reaction because people who don't know the full details of the case are demanding blood like a pack of angry witch hunters.

UEFA are obviously convinced that Milans "crimes" are either not serious or not devious enough to justify banning them from a tournament that would suffer from thier absence, well that's just my view.

el rabitos

what exactly is the *crime* people are talking about?

galliani picked up the phone, listened to someone talk, didnt say anything himself and just hung up the phone.

now if not talking is the new method for tapping up a ref i can see your point, but otherwise, milan are where they deserve to be, minus a league championship that they should have aswell.

Seaneh

el rabitos wrote:

what exactly is the *crime* people are talking about?

galliani picked up the phone, listened to someone talk, didnt say anything himself and just hung up the phone.

now if not talking is the new method for tapping up a ref i can see your point, but otherwise, milan are where they deserve to be, minus a league championship that they should have aswell.

Well put.

leeroybrown

Judging by UEFA's own press release they felt that in this particular case, based on their own regulations they didn't have legal grounds to exclude them once they were put forward by the Italian FA and as such had to let them in.

therecklessone

UEFA claim they had no choice but to let them compete due to legal technicalities, but they are less than happy with the outcome and will be making changes to regulations as a result.

The Emergency Panel came to the conclusion that it had no choice but to admit Milan to the Champions League preliminaries “because of an insufficient legal basis in the regulations”, it said in a statement.

The governing body also stated that the admission was “far from being given with the utmost conviction, in the belief that Milan took advantage of the lack of legal grounds to refuse the club's admission” and said it would change its regulations as a result.

"The club has obviously not yet properly perceived the troubles it is in and the damage it already caused to European football," added the note.

http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/aug2i.html

As for Milan's crime? The phone call was by Leonardo Meani, a former member of Milan's management.

Cantamessa [Milan's lawyer] said the sentence was 'without precedent', especially as Milan had only been found 'indirectly responsible' for the actions of a former member of its management, Leonardo Meani.

In intercepted telephone conversations Meani asked the Italian Football Federation (FIGC) official in charge of assigning linesmen for Serie A matches for specific linesmen for Milan's game against Chievo Verona in April 2005.

Meani was employed on a short-term contract and was 'a person altogether marginal to the club', said Cantamessa.

'The further away a person is from the club, the more autonomous his actions become and the less controllable on the part of the club.'

Cantamessa's attempt to distance Milan from Meani was repeated by the lawyer representing Milan vice-president Adriano Galliani.

'Galliani never approved Leonardi Meani's actions,' said Marco De Luca.

The prosecution argued that Galliani knew of this call after it happened yet he neither punished Meani or brought it to the attention of the authorities. The tribunal felt that Milan were definitely guilty of a breach of the Sports Code, why else did they dock them 30 points from last season, 8 from the coming season, fine them and make them play one game behind closed doors?

Why did Galliani receive a 9 month ban, and Meani a 2.5 year ban?

BFassassin

come on cork.if they win their qualifing tie they get to play the mighty cheating milan

el rabitos

therecklessone wrote:

The prosecution argued that Galliani knew of this call after it happened yet he neither punished Meani or brought it to the attention of the authorities. The tribunal felt that Milan were definitely guilty of a breach of the Sports Code, why else did they dock them 30 points from last season, 8 from the coming season, fine them and make them play one game behind closed doors?

Why did Galliani receive a 9 month ban, and Meani a 2.5 year ban?

Galliani never approved Leonardi Meani's actions

so...

galliani didnt appove the actions of the guy who's doing the deed. therefore galliani is innocent, right?

so, whats he guilty of? not reporting the phone call to the italian fa.

so he's innocent of doing anything that would aid milan on the pitch and his only crime is that of not reporting the phone call to the fa.

so am i right in thinking people believe that not reporting a phone call, where he said nothing, and then hung up the phone is a crime worthy of stripping milan of a championship and docking points for the coming season and making them play a match behind closed doors, thus taking money from the club AND banning galliani, the guy found to be innocent, is a punishment that fits the "crime"?

gosplan

Seaneh wrote:

Well put.

Sorry guys, as much as I enjoy watching Milan play, (IMO their 90's team was the best club team ever) this final verdict is complete crap and you've both got blinkers on.

I won't blame UEFA though as their job isn't to decide whether Milan are eligible or not, it's the job of the Italian FA and particularly the tribunal dealing with this case.

As regards the charges and evidence in particular, as far as I know Meani, who was a club official, was caight having a discussion with someone as regards appointing linesmen for the Milan games.
As a club official he was part of AC Milan and therefore Milan are implicated in the selection of favourable officials.

Basically(from my Italian contacts), people pretty much believe that Silvio B's power has resulted in this reprieve for Milan. The but where they bit off too much was keeping them in the CL as this required some gesture on the part of Fiorentina and Lazio as well so in reality Juve got relegated for one year and nothing else happened(apart from inter who actually won something).

The really sad thing is that they've ruined the whoe process, the clean slate that Italian football was going to get has been ruined because the morality driven football corruption case caved in the end to powerful people lobbying for personal intrests or in other words.....corruption. So nothing goes anywhere apart form Juve who'll be back next year.

All this crap about Galliani knowing or not knowing is ****. Remember when the Juve team doctor was charged? They managed to claim that he on his own iniative, to huge personal risk, for no gain save sporting.....doped the Juve squad. There's always a fall guy and the people at the top never knew anything, I think even Enron executives are claiming this still despite 40 billion going missing.

Mamma Mia we're innocent

gosplan

el rabitos wrote:

so am i right in thinking people believe that not reporting a phone call, where he said nothing, and then hung up the phone is a crime worthy of stripping milan of a championship and docking points for the coming season and making them play a match behind closed doors, thus taking money from the club AND banning galliani, the guy found to be innocent, is a punishment that fits the "crime"?

Galliani is not Milan...and Meani was a Milan representitive when it happened so Milan were guilty of match fixing.

Galliani obviously knew about it.

Come on guys, supporters can be supporters. You can argue back and forth about who has the better home crowds or mertis of players, but I've read a lot of both of your posts and you're both too intelligent for this.

There's no way you actually think that little old Milan had nothing to do with all this.

godtabh

It appears that UEFA had no other choice. I blame the Italian FA. Its wrotten to the core.

Milan shouldnt be in the Champions League and if the letter of the law was applied they should be.

Mind you I would say that

Seaneh

I'm never going to agree with those who say Milan don't deserve to be in the champions league because IMHO it's a crock of sh!t, I saw a lot of matchs Milan played last season, I saw the effort players like Kaladze, Nesta, Gattauso, Kaka, Inzaghi and the rest put in during every game I watched, the ones they won and they ones they lost, I saw refs give ****ty calls both for any against, but hey thats football, it happens, I honestly in all my heart can't agree that Milan cheated to second place, they finished 12pionts ahead of inter and they deserves every single point and then some!

gosplan

Seaneh wrote:

I honestly in all my heart can't agree that Milan cheated to second place, they finished 12pionts ahead of inter and they deserves every single point and then some!

I'm not saying that they cheated to second place but AC Milan...at a boardroom level....were aware and involved in the corrupt Italian process of selecting favourable officials for games.

I'm not denying the quality, ability or workrate of their squad. and it would have been a pity to see the achievements of honest players taken from them. However, when the board of a club is involved in such a manner then the club needs to be punished.

Take Fiorentina being reletgated to div 3 a few years ago for going into administration. This had nothing to do with the workrate of the players but a club needs to be run both on and off the pitch. Milan cheated off the pitch.

For all intensive purposes, the only thing that's happened to Milan is that they need to play a qualifying game for the champions league. True they are denied the Scudetto but Juve won that anyway.

I just think it's a shame that the investigation turned out to be so toothless. Nothing will change in Italian football as a result.

Seaneh

gosplan wrote:

Take Fiorentina being reletgated to div 3 a few years ago for going into administration. This had nothing to do with the workrate of the players but a club needs to be run both on and off the pitch. Milan cheated off the pitch.

Bad example to be honest.
Fiorentina didn't get relegated, they stoped trading, they folded, a new team was set up (called Viola purples or something) and almost a year later those two swiss brothers bought the club, bought the name from the Italian revenue comission (whatever they are called) for 3million euro (the name had become property of the state after the club luquidated ).

Thecnically this isn't the same club anymore.

therecklessone

el rabitos wrote:

so...

galliani didnt appove the actions of the guy who's doing the deed. therefore galliani is innocent, right?

His lawyer says he's innocent, Galliani says he's innocent. The tribunal, and the appeals body, do not. Capiche?

Meani was a Milan employee when he made the call seeking to influence the appointment of referees assisstants for Milan's game against Chievo Verona.

PHB

It's not UEFA's fault, the the Italian FA's fault. UEFA really had no choice.

gosplan

Seaneh wrote:

Bad example to be honest.
Fiorentina didn't get relegated, they stoped trading, they folded, a new team was set up (called Viola purples or something) and almost a year later those two swiss brothers bought the club, bought the name from the Italian revenue comission (whatever they are called) for 3million euro (the name had become property of the state after the club luquidated ).

Thecnically this isn't the same club anymore.

like I said, too intelligent to buy all this stuff.:D

anyway bad example, but take any example where a club has been docked points or threatened to be docked points. It's never really down to the players.

Boards rooms have a responsibility

el rabitos

therecklessone wrote:

His lawyer says he's innocent, Galliani says he's innocent. The tribunal, and the appeals body, do not. Capiche?

Meani was a Milan employee when he made the call seeking to influence the appointment of referees assisstants for Milan's game against Chievo Verona.

once again, galliani, answered the phone, said nothing, and hung up. does this make HIM guilty of anything other than not reporting the phone call to the italian fa?

therecklessone wrote:

Why did Galliani receive a 9 month ban, and Meani a 2.5 year ban?

galliani got the ban because he didnt report it, meani got 2.5 because he was behind it. Capiche? Cantona, Ca-va, Bon soir, bon nuit, bon jovi? get it?

astrofool

Well it is a cop out by UEFA as well, why discuss it at all if they knew they couldn't do anything? Their competition, their rules, if they wanted to (for example) drop the G14 clubs because they held some sort of protest against something, they could.

You also have to remember that Galliani was found guilty of what he did do, so simple logic would say there is more to it than saying nothing on a phone call (AND Meani was working for Milan, HELPING THEM TO CHEAT as well). These are also the phone calls they did bug, you have to wonder what information they intercepted that prompted them to bug the calls in the first place.

Some people put blinkers on and are too ignorant to see whats in front of them however.

therecklessone

el rabitos wrote:

get it?

You're starting to.

el rabitos wrote:

so am i right in thinking people believe that not reporting a phone call, where he said nothing, and then hung up the phone is a crime worthy of stripping milan of a championship and docking points for the coming season and making them play a match behind closed doors, thus taking money from the club AND banning galliani, the guy found to be innocent, is a punishment that fits the "crime"?

You seem to think that Galliani is the only link to Milan and since he's "innocent" in your eyes, the punishent meted out is disproportionate. Meani was a Milan employee when he was recorded attempting to influence the appointment of match officials. Galiiani became aware of said offence after the fact, yet did nothing.

If David Gill was aware of attempted corruption by a lower official at the club and did nothing you'd be happy to see Utd get a slap on the wrist?

el rabitos

therecklessone wrote:

You're starting to.



You seem to think that Galliani is the only link to Milan and since he's "innocent" in your eyes, the punishent meted out is disproportionate. Meani was a Milan employee when he was recorded attempting to influence the appointment of match officials. Galiiani became aware of said offence after the fact, yet did nothing.

If David Gill was aware of attempted corruption by a lower official at the club and did nothing you'd be happy to see Utd get a slap on the wrist?

you consider milans punishment a slap on the wrist?

right now (as far as i know) milan are being punished ONLY because of what galliani didnt do, report a phone call in which he did not participate in.

i dont think that the punishment milan have received is fair if thats the crime.

milan have always stated Meani was acting on his own behalf and wasnt employed by the club

if milan were attempting to buy off refs or whatever they sure did a crappy job, because milan lost the league to juve 2 years in a row

therecklessone

el rabitos wrote:

you consider milans punishment a slap on the wrist?

No, I'm relatively happy with the domestic punishment, my problem is with UEFA having to allow Milan compete in the CL because of a technicality. FIGC should have ensured that Milan were not put forward for European football this year.

My point was to ask you if the situation was to occur at OT, would you be happy for the FA to punish the club with a fine foe example rather than a points deduction?

el rabitos wrote:

right now (as far as i know) milan are being punished ONLY because of what galliani didnt do, report a phone call in which he did not participate in.

i dont think that the punishment milan have received is fair if thats the crime.

There is uncertainty of what exactly the thinking was behind the punishment handed out, I'll grant you that. Don't read Italian (guess you're in the same boat) so I suppose we're both relying on mdeia reports.

el rabitos wrote:

milan have always stated Meani was acting on his own behalf and wasnt employed by the club

Incorrect, they argued "Meani was employed on a short-term contract and was 'a person altogether marginal to the club', said Cantamessa." (from my earlier post) Different thing.

Clubs are, and should be, liable for the actions of their staff, regardless of thier employment status.

el rabitos wrote:

if milan were attempting to buy off refs or whatever they sure did a crappy job, because milan lost the league to juve 2 years in a row

Hence the lesser punishment than those handed out to the other three. Lazio and Fiorentina finished below Milan, they must have been doing a ****ty job as well...;)

gosplan

el rabitos wrote:

once again, galliani, answered the phone, said nothing, and hung up. does this make HIM guilty of anything other than not reporting the phone call to the italian fa? ?

Jesus it's like you're AC Milan PR department or something. Instead or the words 'the phone call' try inserting:
'a case of match fixing, which included members of the referees association, a member of the staff at the club he was directly in charge of(and therefore responsible for), and no doubt other clubs also'

Anyway I don't want to break it down to semantics if you want but we can do it your way.

OK...'not reporting the phone call to the FA'.

Firstly the phone call was about an illegal activity so Galliani's an accessory as he had knowledge and did nothing.

Secondly you have to look at Galliani's role in this. You seem naive enough to believe he knew nothing about this so we'll assume he didn't.

So your theory then must be that Galliani, upon finding out, repremanded the employee, covered it up and tried to get everything back to normal.

These are serious allegations given that the incident Galliani just became aware of was, as I've said illegal, but also very very threatening to the club they both worked for.

Anyway I'm assuming you can supply us with info pointing out that the day of the call was also Meani's last day in AC's employment. I can only surmise that Galliani who must have been by now indiginant with rage at the harm this employee risked bringing to AC Milan, not to mention trampling over his own personal opinions as regards the ethics of competitive sport, would have given this person his marching orders straight away.

Then after this Galliani would have gone on in his work with the knowledge that there were cheats in the refs association. They didn't have anything to do with clean cut Milan now Meani was gone but surely this would have worried him or prompted him to do something.

So 'not reporting the phone call to the FA' is actually
:Accessory to match fixing
:Covering up known acts of cheating, both in his own club, the refs association and he must have assumed the league at large.

On the other hand, do you think it's possible that Galliani would only admitt to the things they could prove he did??:eek: (remember they were looking for Juventus related information when they found all the edivence)

It seems you live in a world where Milan will be the good guys no matter what.

However do you think in general that when a criminal is caught for a crime they break down in tears and confess everything they've ever done....or do they perhaps not???

gosplan

el rabitos wrote:

milan have always stated Meani was acting on his own behalf and wasnt employed by the club

Can I just say how much I love these lines, we should start a poll on best ever 'I didn't know anything about it'.

Like I said the juve doctor who they say doped the team on his own iniative despite the massive risk to himself professionally, the players physically and the club in general.

The Enron execs who knew nothing about the team of accountants they were paying $1 million a week to cover up a $40 billion hole.

Or closer to home didn't Charlie Haughey blame his dead accountant for the irregularities that made him so much money.

Add to them, an ex-milan boardroom member who somehow enters this Italian 'ciricle of favours' conspiracy having nothing to offer(cause he's obvoiusly not close to Galliani and Berlusconi) adn puts himself in great personal debt to people just to bend the rules for the team he loves.

el rabitos

therecklessone wrote:

Incorrect, they argued "Meani was employed on a short-term contract and was 'a person altogether marginal to the club', said Cantamessa." (from my earlier post) Different thing.

Clubs are, and should be, liable for the actions of their staff, regardless of thier employment status.



Hence the lesser punishment than those handed out to the other three. Lazio and Fiorentina finished below Milan, they must have been doing a ****ty job as well...;)

my mistake, i meant to say he wasnt employed by the club since spring of '06. milan have however always maintained he was working without sanction from them. thats all i'm saying

like yourself i'm only going on the reports i've read on the matter, but my point is bassically about the punishment milan have received in relation to what they have been found guilty of, which is galliani not reporting that phone call.

what galliani did or didnt know, i havent a clue, but as a milan fan, and given milan havent won anything to suggest they had any favourable decisions i'd be on the side of milan not doing anything to encourage Meani to act on their behalf. but thats just me being a milan supporter and hoping they werent acting the fool

if information is there or comes out in future to prove that milan have used or encourage meani to act on their behalf then of course they should be relegated and banned from europe and maybe even handed a transfer ban.

iregk

To be honest and I am a Milan fan by the way but I think the punnishment that we got was fair. Were in the CL but may not make it into the comp proper lets not forget that!

Also what I find hard to believe in all of this when it comes to Galliani, Moggi, Meani and all that. These guys are Italian. Have they learned nothing from The Godfather or The Sopranos? Never ever discuss business on the phone!!!!