British Army in World War II would you have joined...?

odonnell

apparently they do have some fairly hardcore personnel, but i never got the chance to see for myself so... but yeah like i said - airfields etc.

billo41

Isn't the RAF Regiment known as the Rock Apes?

Yes

Snickers Man

I wonder do the Swedes, Swiss, Spanish or Portugese of today agonise over whether they should have run off to join other armies to fight the Germans and Italians in 1940. Or spend their time wishing that they could turn history's clock backwards and urge their country to declare war on Germany, or agonise over whether their head of state should disport the emblem of a foreign army (which had done for many of her own citizens) as a gesture of 'maturity'.

I don't think so.

I am hugely proud of the fact that Ireland stayed OUT of the war in 1940 and really have little patience with this silly, mawkish and vicarious attitude that we must now pretend that we were wholly in favour of the war and keen to do our bit for the Empire. We weren't and we didn't.

If you must take an interest in our ancestors' contribution to the British Army then go look into the real pages of history. There are plenty of examples. We used to provide a disproportionate number of soldiers to that army. Their deeds are written in blood wherever there were natives to be butchered for the aggrandisement of the Crown. As that great hagiographer of Empire Rudyard Kipling put it: "The Irish move to the sound of guns like salmon to the sea"

That was back in the days when good old Pat could be relied upon to take the shilling and go off to fight the fuzzy wuzzys in much the same way that the Scots do today. In Africa, India and Asia Irish soldiers were to the fore doing the dirty work of the empire. The Indian Mutiny, for example, put down with such savagery that the actions of the British Army became known as the Devil's Wind, was one conflict in which Irishmen were very much to the fore. So much so in fact that two regiments of the British Army in India were merged into one and called the Royal Dublin Fusiliers, in deference to the nationality of the majority of its troops.

I know that many of my ancestors served in the British Army around about then and more recently. I'm not particularly proud of it.

As for the nonsense that the British were fighting "for Europe" or "for civilisation" in WWII. That shows such an ignorance of Britain's long standing antipathy towards Europe that it is almost laughable.

Britain went to war in 1939 for exactly the same reason she went to war in 1914: to protect and extend her empire. She was a little more successful in the First World War than the second, in that her Empire was bigger at the end of that war than it was at the start. In WWII, she had to call on so many of her colonies soldiers to fight her battles that she was in no position to resist when they started demanding their independence, which they did in the 25 years after the war.

Would I have joined up in 1940? I like to think I would. But I would have joined the Irish Army, not the other one.

Fratton Fred

Snickers Man wrote:

I wonder do the Swedes, Swiss, Spanish or Portugese of today agonise over whether they should have run off to join other armies to fight the Germans and Italians in 1940. Or spend their time wishing that they could turn history's clock backwards and urge their country to declare war on Germany, or agonise over whether their head of state should disport the emblem of a foreign army (which had done for many of her own citizens) as a gesture of 'maturity'.

I don't think so.

I am hugely proud of the fact that Ireland stayed OUT of the war in 1940 and really have little patience with this silly, mawkish and vicarious attitude that we must now pretend that we were wholly in favour of the war and keen to do our bit for the Empire. We weren't and we didn't.

If you must take an interest in our ancestors' contribution to the British Army then go look into the real pages of history. There are plenty of examples. We used to provide a disproportionate number of soldiers to that army. Their deeds are written in blood wherever there were natives to be butchered for the aggrandisement of the Crown. As that great hagiographer of Empire Rudyard Kipling put it: "The Irish move to the sound of guns like salmon to the sea"

That was back in the days when good old Pat could be relied upon to take the shilling and go off to fight the fuzzy wuzzys in much the same way that the Scots do today. In Africa, India and Asia Irish soldiers were to the fore doing the dirty work of the empire. The Indian Mutiny, for example, put down with such savagery that the actions of the British Army became known as the Devil's Wind, was one conflict in which Irishmen were very much to the fore. So much so in fact that two regiments of the British Army in India were merged into one and called the Royal Dublin Fusiliers, in deference to the nationality of the majority of its troops.

I know that many of my ancestors served in the British Army around about then and more recently. I'm not particularly proud of it.

this is the point I stop agreeing with you. FWIW, I think in hind sight the Irish played their neutrality in WWII absolutely perfectly.

Snickers Man wrote:

As for the nonsense that the British were fighting "for Europe" or "for civilisation" in WWII. That shows such an ignorance of Britain's long standing antipathy towards Europe that it is almost laughable.

Britain went to war in 1939 for exactly the same reason she went to war in 1914: to protect and extend her empire. She was a little more successful in the First World War than the second, in that her Empire was bigger at the end of that war than it was at the start. In WWII, she had to call on so many of her colonies soldiers to fight her battles that she was in no position to resist when they started demanding their independence, which they did in the 25 years after the war.

Would I have joined up in 1940? I like to think I would. But I would have joined the Irish Army, not the other one.

Britain went to war because Germany was threatening the whole of Europe. Britain and France did not need to challenge Hitler, his plans were always eastwards, good job they did though.

camo

Yes definitely.

My grandfather fought in the Second World War in the British Army. His reasons for joining were 100% right, to prevent the Nazis from taking over the whole of Europe and to aid other neutral countries.

If such a war or threat to Europe / Ireland happened again I would have no problem with joining another Army (not necessairly the British) if the Irish government didn't have the balls to get involved.

People like my grandfather who's quielty enjoying his well earned retirement should be honoured properly and not brushed under the carpet as they were for many years.

TerrorFirmer

Fratton Fred wrote:

Britain went to war because Germany was threatening the whole of Europe. Britain and France did not need to challenge Hitler, his plans were always eastwards, good job they did though.

I don't get this part. They did not need to Challenge Hitler? Germany conquered France in six weeks, and probably would have done so even without the declaration of War over Poland at some stage to ensure that his western front stayed relatively closed for the eventual invasion of the east - although Britain was another matter, as Hitler wished to totally avoid any sort of war with the United Kingdom.

Fratton Fred

HavoK wrote:

I don't get this part. They did not need to Challenge Hitler? Germany conquered France in six weeks, and probably would have done so even without the declaration of War over Poland at some stage to ensure that his western front stayed relatively closed for the eventual invasion of the east - although Britain was another matter, as Hitler wished to totally avoid any sort of war with the United Kingdom.

that's kind of my point and I should have added "At the Time".

Britain and France could have stayed out of it, in theory, but in reality yes, Hitler as not going to ignore two major powers on his western borders.

But, the accusation was that Britain went to war for the same reasons she did on 1914 which is not true. WWI had many factors, including colonial pride, which led to hostilities, WWII was a simple case of self presevation.

TerrorFirmer

Oh... sorry - I should have read that a bit better actually.

An interesting question I find is that what if Hitler had died in 1940, or even 1939 - I doubt Germany would have ever invaded the east in any case, and most of Hitlers generals didn't want to - or even think they could -successfully invade France either. Even the Germans underestimated themselves, let alone the rest of Europe. Would Germany just have continued on to modern day as a powerful but relatively peaceful nation in Europe?

Fratton Fred

HavoK wrote:

Oh... sorry - I should have read that a bit better actually.

An interesting question I find is that what if Hitler had died in 1940, or even 1939 - I doubt Germany would have ever invaded the east in any case, and most of Hitlers generals didn't want to - or even think they could -successfully invade France either. Even the Germans underestimated themselves, let alone the rest of Europe. Would Germany just have continued on to modern day as a powerful but relatively peaceful nation in Europe?

Churchill is often misquoted regarding Hitler, this is what he wrote about him in 1935.

"We cannot tell whether Hitler will be the man who will once again let loose upon the world another war in which civilization will irretrievably succumb, or whether he will down in history as the man who restored honour and peace of mind to the Great Germanic nation.”

If he had died in 1939, maybe only the latter would have applied.

the_syco

Fratton Fred wrote:

Isn't the RAF Regiment known as the Rock Apes?(Apologies if that's an offensive name for it)

I thought they had a special forces type section designed to capture and hold enemy airfields or something like that. A couple of old school mates of mine joined and had a great time in Belize.

It actually says it on their home page! http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafregiment/

Seemingly the story goes that they got bored one day, and went shooting baboons (nicknamed Rock Apes). One soldier shot another, and at the hearing, his excuse was the other soldier looked like a Baboon in the half light.

O'Leprosy

Snickers Man wrote:

I wonder do the Swedes, Swiss, Spanish or Portugese of today agonise over whether they should have run off to join other armies to fight the Germans and Italians in 1940. Or spend their time wishing that they could turn history's clock backwards and urge their country to declare war on Germany, or agonise over whether their head of state should disport the emblem of a foreign army (which had done for many of her own citizens) as a gesture of 'maturity'.

I don't think so.

I am hugely proud of the fact that Ireland stayed OUT of the war in 1940 and really have little patience with this silly, mawkish and vicarious attitude that we must now pretend that we were wholly in favour of the war and keen to do our bit for the Empire. We weren't and we didn't.

If you must take an interest in our ancestors' contribution to the British Army then go look into the real pages of history. There are plenty of examples. We used to provide a disproportionate number of soldiers to that army. Their deeds are written in blood wherever there were natives to be butchered for the aggrandisement of the Crown. As that great hagiographer of Empire Rudyard Kipling put it: "The Irish move to the sound of guns like salmon to the sea"

That was back in the days when good old Pat could be relied upon to take the shilling and go off to fight the fuzzy wuzzys in much the same way that the Scots do today. In Africa, India and Asia Irish soldiers were to the fore doing the dirty work of the empire. The Indian Mutiny, for example, put down with such savagery that the actions of the British Army became known as the Devil's Wind, was one conflict in which Irishmen were very much to the fore. So much so in fact that two regiments of the British Army in India were merged into one and called the Royal Dublin Fusiliers, in deference to the nationality of the majority of its troops.

I know that many of my ancestors served in the British Army around about then and more recently. I'm not particularly proud of it.

As for the nonsense that the British were fighting "for Europe" or "for civilisation" in WWII. That shows such an ignorance of Britain's long standing antipathy towards Europe that it is almost laughable.

Britain went to war in 1939 for exactly the same reason she went to war in 1914: to protect and extend her empire. She was a little more successful in the First World War than the second, in that her Empire was bigger at the end of that war than it was at the start. In WWII, she had to call on so many of her colonies soldiers to fight her battles that she was in no position to resist when they started demanding their independence, which they did in the 25 years after the war.

Would I have joined up in 1940? I like to think I would. But I would have joined the Irish Army, not the other one.

Agree 100%. WHAT IS UP WITH YOU CROWD ??? Jayus, ONLY the IRISH could come up with most of the postings that have been put on here. I mean, everyone of you know that britiain had threatened to invade the 26 co's !!!! So I presume, none of you would have had any misgivings been part of the army attacking what is, allegedly, your own country ??? So, for those of you who would have joined say, the royal air farce, would you have enjoyed 'fighting for freedom' by dropping bombs on Dublin, Cork etc Didn't the Irish army need men to protect the country and not go off and join the potential feckin' enemy !!!! ONLY THE IRISH, I really mean it. AS Snickers Man says " do the Swedes, Swiss, Spanish or Portugese of today agonise over whether they should have run off to join other armies to fight the Germans and Italians in 1940. "

Incidentally, my uncles all served in what was called the Land Defence Force ( the Reserve ) during what they called the 'Emergency'. If British was fighting "for Europe" or "for civilisation" in WWII, well they could have started by returning the six counties back to us couldn't they.

BTW Fratton 'unionist' Fred your quote from another discussion " Britain alwys fancied it's chances against either France or Germany, but not both which one of the reasons why Britian rushed into defend France in WW1 " Still waiting for your reply my posting - Fancying your chances against Germany ? Give us a laugh, what planet do you come from . They ran with their tails between their legs, ever hear of that debacle called the retreat to Dunkirk ? ( but I suppose that will be all the French's fault somehow ). They wouldn't have put their big toe back on the continent without the Americans.

Scally07

Would've considered joining the British Army, maybe even the wehrmacht. Would have joined Francos fight against the Republicans first.

Zambia

O'Leprosy wrote:

I mean, everyone of you know that britiain had threatened to invade the 26 co's !!!!

As did German forces any prudent country at the time would...

O'Leprosy wrote:

So I presume, none of you would have had any misgivings been part of the army attacking what is, allegedly, your own country ???

Its probably due to the amount of irish in the british army and british war effort made this a non runner

O'Leprosy wrote:

Incidentally, my uncles all served in what was called the Land Defence Force ( the Reserve ) during what they called the 'Emergency'. If British was fighting "for Europe" or "for civilisation" in WWII, well they could have started by returning the six counties back to us couldn't they.

Sorry its only a guess but I reckon they needed the shipyards in Belfast , when your fighting for your existance I gather you dont give up industry or farmland.

Fratton Fred

O'Leprosy wrote:

Agree 100%. WHAT IS UP WITH YOU CROWD ??? Jayus, ONLY the IRISH could come up with most of the postings that have been put on here. I mean, everyone of you know that britiain had threatened to invade the 26 co's !!!! So I presume, none of you would have had any misgivings been part of the army attacking what is, allegedly, your own country ??? So, for those of you who would have joined say, the royal air farce, would you have enjoyed 'fighting for freedom' by dropping bombs on Dublin, Cork etc Didn't the Irish army need men to protect the country and not go off and join the potential feckin' enemy !!!! ONLY THE IRISH, I really mean it. AS Snickers Man says " do the Swedes, Swiss, Spanish or Portugese of today agonise over whether they should have run off to join other armies to fight the Germans and Italians in 1940. "

Incidentally, my uncles all served in what was called the Land Defence Force ( the Reserve ) during what they called the 'Emergency'. If British was fighting "for Europe" or "for civilisation" in WWII, well they could have started by returning the six counties back to us couldn't they.

BTW Fratton 'unionist' Fred your quote from another discussion " Britain alwys fancied it's chances against either France or Germany, but not both which one of the reasons why Britian rushed into defend France in WW1 " Still waiting for your reply my posting - Fancying your chances against Germany ? Give us a laugh, what planet do you come from . They ran with their tails between their legs, ever hear of that debacle called the retreat to Dunkirk ? ( but I suppose that will be all the French's fault somehow ). They wouldn't have put their big toe back on the continent without the Americans.

Please stop referring to me as a unionist, I have made my opinions on the matter clear in many other threads, so please stop winding me up now.

why are you trying to belittle Britains war efforts? despite your bigotted views on Britain, the fact they remained in the war was surely a good thing, or would you have welcomed a Nazi government in Ireland?

the British Expeditionary Force was pushed back, along with the allies very quickly because they completely underestimated a Blitzkreig attack, they were also woefully underprepared for war. However, the fact they (rightly or wrongly) "Fancied" their chances against Germany is a generally accepted opinion.

Zambia

O'Leprosy wrote:

They ran with their tails between their legs, ever hear of that debacle called the retreat to Dunkirk ? ( but I suppose that will be all the French's fault somehow ). They wouldn't have put their big toe back on the continent without the Americans.

I also did hear of the Debacle of not even attempting to help in the first place...

In the face of Bare faced agression lets declare ourselves Neutral cause that way we dont have to stand up for anything.

Clare gunner

Re the Swiss,Swedes,etc running off to joinn the Germans. Quite a few of them did,as did French,Dutch,Danish,Finnish,Croats,Numerous ethnic Russians,and Muslims,and a few Englishmen
The Spanish had the socalled Blue Division.Which apprently creditd itself very well on the Eastern Front.
The SS Divisions Nordland and Viking were made up of Danes,Norewigns,Swedes ,Finns,Dutch.
Even the French had SS Charlamange,and they were occupied by the Germans.
Even Americans returned to Germany to fight for Germany. so called VolksDeutsche[ Germanic peoples].There is alot of truth in that scene in Band of Brothers,where the US GIs meet a American in German uniform.
Not only that,the foriegn divisions were still the last and hardest fighters to surrender when Berlin finally fell.
It is not as simple in saying,everyone ran away from the 3rd Reich and immediately went home.Alot of people went the otherway as well.
Including a certain Irishman by name of William Joyce from Galway.[Lord HawHaw].There would have been plenty of irish who would have been quite happy to have had the Swastika over Dail Eireinn,notably those with Republican leanings.It would boil down to your personal convictions and belifs at the time of right and wrong.As to why many Irishmen joined the British army,well it was a job,and wages...Somthing we were as usual in short supply of in Devs Ireland paradise.Money in the pocket to feed a hungry family cuts thru alot of idealistic ideas.

KBarry

Dub13 wrote:

Well thats a matter of opinion,I know a few lads who served/are serving with the Brits and apparently its only the RAF who think the Regiment are up there with the best.

I served with an army signals unit attached to the RAF, and the RAF Regt weren't even worth getting in a NAAFI punch-up with. I almost fell off my chair when I saw them compared to the Royal Marines. :eek: