Hooligans

Tusky

BBC 1 now, its half over but v.v.good. The English fans shown make me sick.

21:00
Hooligans (Stereo) (T) Documentary revealing the untold story of the World Cup 2006. Undercover cameras capture the mindless violence, racism, riots and running battles in German cities as police tried to protect the thousands of genuine football fans attending the sporting event. The programme highlights the true extent of England's shame as yobs sing, swear and scrap their way across the country.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Strange how none of this was reported, I suppose the Germans wanted to show how good a world cup it was and the English never wanted their fans to once again be branded Hooligans.

Once again english fans have let themselves down abroad. Nice to see that the police eventually got tough.

county

Tusky wrote:

BBC 1 now, its half over but v.v.good. The English fans shown make me sick.

21:00
Hooligans (Stereo) (T) Documentary revealing the untold story of the World Cup 2006. Undercover cameras capture the mindless violence, racism, riots and running battles in German cities as police tried to protect the thousands of genuine football fans attending the sporting event. The programme highlights the true extent of England's shame as yobs sing, swear and scrap their way across the country.

its pretty good,i love a good punch up

Tusky

county wrote:

its pretty good,i love a good punch up

:rolleyes:

Its basically just a bunch of drunken scumbags causing trouble. Nothing to do with football at all.

KdjaCL

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

Strange how none of this was reported, I suppose the Germans wanted to show how good a world cup it was and the English never wanted their fans to once again be branded Hooligans.

Imagine its the same idea as England if you dont see it on the news it doesnt happen.

No media coverage to darken the name of the PL, but the clubs do a good enforcing the grounds its just areas where the hooligans "meet" which cant be policed.


kdjac

Thanx 4 The Fish

But they can be policed, when I was living in London and Fulham were at Loftus Road there were riots and beatings after alot of games, the police were around the ground but none in any of the surrounding streets. While at Anfield and Wigan and other grounds that I have been to with big fanbases the police actually use a bit of cop and move around, go down the streets nearby on horses and CCTV cameras, people soon learn that they cannot get away with it and they get what they deserve.

It just seems that this common sense goes out the window when they get out of their own country.

Guy:Incognito

The first part in Frankfurt showed Germans starting trouble and the German hells angels starting trouble with the police (they made up most of the arrests) TBH I'd say a good few countries countries could have similar programmes about their "fans". Did anyone catch where the bit of home made footage was from, that was horrific looking with the bloke lieing face down in the middle.

There always seem to be a hardcore element of scum for these things. So far we've been lucky the scum element in this country dont see going to tournaments as a viable way to spend their cash.

Watching scumbags knock the ****e out of each other makes great tv.

Johnny_the_fox

there was reports about the riots... here and here

gosplan

I remember them being covered in the news, but I was in India at the time.

Intresting that they pointed out how successful they've been against organised hooligans but now it's just pretty much drunken louts like you'd see in any town on a Friday night. Just pissed people with a propensity for violence.

For me the most shameful bit was when Brazillian and other supporters tried to join the party and were roundly told to 'F**k off', especially because it wasn't hooliganism, theyjust didn't want to mix with people from other countries.

Just serious tribalism/xenaphobia/whatever

Ugly ugly people

Ruskie4Rent

I blame fifa. I'd say their sponsers made a killing during it. 17 litres per person on average? Surely it would've been logical to stop the beer flow.

godtabh

Havent seen the program but I have witnessed some holigans first hand in Hollan. They are all over the place. Some worse than others.

Drink does feul it but some of the nut cases live for the Saturday afternoon when they can go kick the crap out of each other.

Tusky

Ruskie4Rent wrote:

I blame fifa. I'd say their sponsers made a killing during it. 17 litres per person on average? Surely it would've been logical to stop the beer flow.

Thats unfair to the people who arent abusing it.

mike65

Most of the top 'firms' arrange the dust-ups like it was boxing match. Its a way of life.

Mike.

Tusky

mike65 wrote:

Its a way of life.

My arse its a way of life. What about all the innocent people that get hurt in the process.

PHB

These sorts of things go on on a regular basis bear football matches, they are just no longer reported by the media.

lostexpectation

it seems like it could have been alot worse, they seem to just pre-arrest people...

Sizzler

Aboslute scumbags. As the lad from Stoke was saying, it was an opportunity for all the lower league teams "supporters" to go away and run amok cos they are 'engerland and they would never ordinarily have the opportunity! FFS !

In fairness from what I say the majority of these lads were just your regular scum that you would prob see up and down the UK every sat night starting rucks with people for no reason.

The undercover lads never drilled down to a low level so they can only got snaphsots of a few spunkers, eg the guy from Chelsea and the youngfellas from Huddersfield (who in fairness were 2 or 3 clowns who thought they were tough for throwing a few bottles and getting chased by the cops).

Didnt seem to be so organised, they were literally just there for the booze up and because it was Germany they were there to intimidate the locals and start a scrap with who ever looked at them sideways.

Major LOL at the cops dishing out "banning" orders to people going back into Stuttgart. As if that was going to work.

Two things got my goat though.....the fact they "took over" an Irish bar for one of their first games (and prob thrashed it) and secondly the UFF Flag. I mean WTF do these scumbags know about the UFF? :mad:

iregk

unfortunately now the media and fifa have taken the view of if we dont show it it doesn't exist and people have this nice view on football which equals more cash.

What should be happening now with 24hr news stations is all of this should be shown over and over for every premier league game, international etc... the only way to solve a problem is to confront it not pretend it doesn't exist.

county

Sizzler wrote:

Two things got my goat though.....the fact they "took over" an Irish bar for one of their first games (and prob thrashed it) and secondly the UFF Flag. I mean WTF do these scumbags know about the UFF? :mad:

if they had trashed the irish bar i am sure it would have been shown,as for your second point,a lot of northern irish loyalists travel with england in europe,it was probably there flag

Hagar

Don't just blame the drink, that's only an excuse.
Real hooligans go in stone cold sober.
They are there for the fighting not the drinking.
Those who are below par through drink are the ones that suffer.

Bateman

English fans always head straight to an Irish bar in every city they go to, unless they can find an English one first. Generally they use them because they can get the same selection of food and drink as they would at home, these bars have English newspapers, and English TV. I really don't think there is anything sinister about the fact that they congregate in Irish bars, and they rarely seem to smash them up. It's usually the police who smash up the bars, like they did in Charleroi when they gassed the inside of the pub indiscriminately.

In fairness to the media, most of what went on was reported if you wanted to find it. It's only right that it shouldn't be front page news, when as has been said, most of what was going on was drunk and disorderly, rather than any kind of serious fighting. Time and time again the top lads from Germany and Poland were arrested, before anything serious seemed to have happened, protecting the families in the vicinity. The amount of English fans with kids in these flashpoint areas though was disturbing. I don't think young males between the age of 18 and 35 getting drunk and acting the fool is in any way shocking or disturbing, but people with kids on their shoulders is another story.

The main thing than came out of the programme was that banning orders work, at least in England anyway. If they dish out even more for the next tournament, it will again in the main be trouble free.

Mr. Presentable

The fact is that it goes on like this all over England, most weekends. If they don't report it (and they don't) they can pretend they've cured the problem (like the racism problem at matches. That's not gone either, but don't report it and it seems to be..). Of course there is also the theory that if you don't report it you can deglamourise it.



It goes on all over Europe, in different degrees. Parts of Italy are very dangerous at match time - and they still report the problems. FFS, go to a Shamrock Rovers - Bohs game!

"How to stop hooligans? Take every man aged from 14 to 40, cut their arms and legs off, that'll stop it. "

Andy Nicholls
Former Everton hooligan

Sizzler

county wrote:

if they had trashed the irish bar i am sure it would have been shown,as for your second point,a lot of northern irish loyalists travel with england in europe,it was probably there flag

Maybe.maybe not !They had 3 wks of footage there to go thru

Maybe on the 2nd part but its well known that Chelsea crews have an affiliation with the north, for all the wrong reasons.

In fact if you look close enough theres a few sites on the web, one particular one has some w**nker in a chelsea jersey holding up a union jack near the Boyne river in Drogheda. If I was passing that day his head might have become "stuck" in my car door.....repeatedley.

Benedict XVI

This is one problem that I feel will visit our shores very soon and not too many people are aware of it.
I am talking about Rep. of Ireland v Wales in March at Croke Park.
Many Irish people like to look at the likes of the Welsh as our ‘Celtic Cousins’, that I reckon is a crock of S**t, the Welsh are just as bad as the English for hooliganism. It’s only because they don’t qualify for anything we don’t see as much about them.
Say a very good documentary a few years ago about Cardiff City ‘fans’ v Leeds in a FA cup game, really tough nuts.
Welsh fans even go to England games to cause trouble with the English
On a Sky ‘Britain’s Toughest Away days’ documentary they showed a group of Swansea ‘fans’ kicking heads with Oldham fans, regular occurrence by all accounts.

So if anyone who thinks the Welsh visit to Croke Park will be a lovey dovey affair with our ‘Celtic cousins’, I’d watch out.
I can see the Gardai wading into Hill 16 with batons flying a la 1995 already.

On another note I think Irish away fans are beginning to get a bit of the hooligan element also, a few bottles went flying in Paris and thankfully not much became of it.
We always hear stories of fights and stabbings in our towns on Saturday nights. Now with cheap travel and glamorous away trips to Germany, Prague, Bratislava and even Cardiff this Saturday night fighting could be brought to the streets of Europe much to the disgust of the long serving and much respected Irish fans.

eirebhoy

The documentary can be found on this site if you register:
http://www.fbtz.com/forum/

Bateman

Benedict XVI wrote:

I am talking about Rep. of Ireland v Wales in March at Croke Park.

Wales will take a big crew over here, no doubt about it, the relatively large ticket allocation they receive will make it even bigger. However, by and large, they will have no-one to fight with. Bohs and Rovers would not and will not join up (over the past 2 years, small pockets of St Pats and Bohs have been attacked by Rovers on Ireland away trips), and although I can see the locals chucking a few missiles at a massive Welsh mob walking from O'Connell Street up Summerhill to Croker, I don't foresee any major public order incidents when the Welsh come over. The kind that go to England games don't go to Welsh games, and probably won't change that habit for this one.

Benedict XVI wrote:

I can see the Gardai wading into Hill 16 with batons flying a la 1995 already.

I take your point, but I don't think anyone can realistically see any trouble inside the ground. :eek:

Benedict XVI wrote:

On another note I think Irish away fans are beginning to get a bit of the hooligan element also, a few bottles went flying in Paris and thankfully not much became of it.

I wasn't there, but I heard it was down in the Moulin Rouge and Rovers were there, along with a few St Pats fans. The local Arab youths came down throwing shapes and chucking bottles and no Irish were really interested. At the time I remember being surprised that Rovers didn't have a go back, but apparently they didn't.

Ireland is a very small country, and if the Gardaí wanted to do something, they could, very easily.

Jivin Turkey

Bateman wrote:

I wasn't there, but I heard it was down in the Moulin Rouge and Rovers were there, along with a few St Pats fans. The local Arab youths came down throwing shapes and chucking bottles and no Irish were really interested.

I was there and the Arab guys that came down throwing their shapes got absolutely hockeyed.

The tried to drive a car up a street with tens of thousands of Irish on it, realised the couldn't went off and came back with bottles and hurled them in instead. Mob mentality and safety in numbers kicked in, and lads that probably wouldn't be up to much at a normal Irish match retaliated, assisted by a few more hardened scummers I must admit.

Anyways the instigators of the trouble got a few bottles to the face, not to mention each and every window of the car they subsequently tried to ram through the crowd smashed. Having seen the entire event unfold I would say justice was done, but give me a undercover camera, selective clips and an agenda and I have “Irish Hooligans: The real story”, just like what we witnessed on BBC the other night.

Very little organised violence occurred at the WC if we are to believe what has been reported, but it is impossible to stop every incident kicking off between hundreds of thousands of drunk people, and from there you get the mob mentality, and lads who could be your boss or your neighbour getting involved when they never usually would because of the "us and them" scenario.

Benedict XVI

Jivin Turkey wrote:

I was there and the Arab guys that came down throwing their shapes got absolutely hockeyed.

The tried to drive a car up a street with tens of thousands of Irish on it, realised the couldn't went off and came back with bottles and hurled them in instead. Mob mentality and safety in numbers kicked in, and lads that probably wouldn't be up to much at a normal Irish match retaliated, assisted by a few more hardened scummers I must admit.

Anyways the instigators of the trouble got a few bottles to the face, not to mention each and every window of the car they subsequently tried to ram through the crowd smashed. Having seen the entire event unfold I would say justice was done, but give me a undercover camera, selective clips and an agenda and I have “Irish Hooligans: The real story”, just like what we witnessed on BBC the other night.

Very little organised violence occurred at the WC if we are to believe what has been reported, but it is impossible to stop every incident kicking off between hundreds of thousands of drunk people, and from there you get the mob mentality, and lads who could be your boss or your neighbour getting involved when they never usually would because of the "us and them" scenario.

I was there also and saw something similar, all cars trying to drive up the street were being surrounded by Irish fans, many banging on the roof and bonnet etc, one idiot was even on the roof of a bus earlier in the day.
I just remember a few bottles being exchanged and I made for the other side of the street and started walking back up to where we had come from. One Irish fan I meet on the way back up told me that it was English fans that had infiltrated the Irish crowd and started throwing the bottles, poor innocent fellow.

Small and all as it was I am afraid that it may not be the only incident of it’s kind to happen over the coming years.

Zapp Brannigan

Anyone else think the scene where the Huddersfield Firm were braggin about getting caught was funny? Cos one of the guys teeth got smashed in, presumably, by a German Policeman. Brilliant!

Bateman

Slurms wrote:

Anyone else think the scene where the Huddersfield Firm were braggin about getting caught was funny? Cos one of the guys teeth got smashed in, presumably, by a German Policeman. Brilliant!

If there had been proper lads there those Hudds would have got a few slaps. Same for the lads that wouldnt give the lone Turk his glasses back, and the lads that were pouring beer over that German bird. Throwing beer seems to be the new throwing chairs. :rolleyes:

therecklessone

Read a post on a Spurs message board this morning that struck a chord, differentiating between hooligans and common yobs. The distinction may be lost on some, but let me continue...

Hooligans see football as secondary to the main business of fighting, hell many of them couldn't care if they win, lose, or draw. Policing of games in the UK has advanced to such a stage that few opportunites exist for hooligans to "express" themselves as they see fit inside and close to grounds, so for all intents and purposes, hooliganism "does not exist" in the UK. Of course, thats bull. Hooligans are organiseed, firms arrange meets and attempt to avoid police detection so they can kick the **** out of each other. In most cases, hooligans are unseen by the general public, and have little or no impact on those attending games.

Yobs are different. Yobs are too stupid to organise, too drunk to avoid detection. Yobs do not leave home in the morning looking to cause a ruck, but it is in their nature when drunk to act the p*ick. Any gathering of drunk males fuled by cheap beer and testerone will result in abusive behaviour and/or violence, anyone who had the misfortune of passing through Swords Main Street on a Saturday night throughout the 90s at chucking out time from the Star will attest to that. By its very nature, yob culture is indiscriminate in its application of violence. Yobs will run in packs, but are rarely interested in a fair fight, so a small group of unwilling victims will often face the wrath of a larger group of yobs, but a large group of yobs will rarely look to take on an organised firm.

English fans behaviour abroad should be seen as yobbish rather than as hooligan-like. the real hooligans at WC 2006 were the Germans and Poles who met for a pitched battle before their 1st round tie. They were organised.

None of this excuses thuggish behaviour, but it does provide context.

Tusky

therecklessone wrote:

Read a post on a Spurs message board this morning that struck a chord, differentiating between hooligans and common yobs. The distinction may be lost on some, but let me continue...

Hooligans see football as secondary to the main business of fighting, hell many of them couldn't care if they win, lose, or draw. Policing of games in the UK has advanced to such a stage that few opportunites exist for hooligans to "express" themselves as they see fit inside and close to grounds, so for all intents and purposes, hooliganism "does not exist" in the UK. Of course, thats bull. Hooligans are organiseed, firms arrange meets and attempt to avoid police detection so they can kick the **** out of each other. In most cases, hooligans are unseen by the general public, and have little or no impact on those attending games.

Yobs are different. Yobs are too stupid to organise, too drunk to avoid detection. Yobs do not leave home in the morning looking to cause a ruck, but it is in their nature when drunk to act the p*ick. Any gathering of drunk males fuled by cheap beer and testerone will result in abusive behaviour and/or violence, anyone who had the misfortune of passing through Swords Main Street on a Saturday night throughout the 90s at chucking out time from the Star will attest to that. By its very nature, yob culture is indiscriminate in its application of violence. Yobs will run in packs, but are rarely interested in a fair fight, so a small group of unwilling victims will often face the wrath of a larger group of yobs, but a large group of yobs will rarely look to take on an organised firm.

English fans behaviour abroad should be seen as yobbish rather than as hooligan-like. the real hooligans at WC 2006 were the Germans and Poles who met for a pitched battle before their 1st round tie. They were organised.

None of this excuses thuggish behaviour, but it does provide context.

good post.

BaZmO*

Great post therecklessone.

But in fairness.......

therecklessone wrote:

anyone who had the misfortune of passing through Swords Main Street on a Saturday night throughout the 90s at chucking out time from the Star will attest to that

.....could of easily read.....

therecklessone wrote:

anyone who had the misfortune of passing through Any Main Street in Ireland on a Saturday night throughout the 90s at chucking out time from the Main Dissshco will attest to that

But the point is well made.

Benedict XVI

Yea good post.

Ireland is developing a 'yob' element with some sections of traveling support, rather than an hooligan element.

Not user which is better of two evils to be honest !

Mossy Monk

great programme. hopefully the relevant people will use the footage and slap some sense into the scum that ruin it for others

Guy:Incognito

Benedict XVI wrote:

This is one problem that I feel will visit our shores very soon and not too many people are aware of it.
I am talking about Rep. of Ireland v Wales in March at Croke Park.
Many Irish people like to look at the likes of the Welsh as our ‘Celtic Cousins’, that I reckon is a crock of S**t, the Welsh are just as bad as the English for hooliganism. It’s only because they don’t qualify for anything we don’t see as much about them.
Say a very good documentary a few years ago about Cardiff City ‘fans’ v Leeds in a FA cup game, really tough nuts.
Welsh fans even go to England games to cause trouble with the English
On a Sky ‘Britain’s Toughest Away days’ documentary they showed a group of Swansea ‘fans’ kicking heads with Oldham fans, regular occurrence by all accounts..

There hasnt been trouble other times the Welsh were over.

Benedict XVI wrote:

So if anyone who thinks the Welsh visit to Croke Park will be a lovey dovey affair with our ‘Celtic cousins’, I’d watch out.
I can see the Gardai wading into Hill 16 with batons flying a la 1995 already...

***Pedantic reply alert***
I'd bet all my money they dont, Hill 16 is a terrace and will be empty for the football matchs.

Benedict XVI

Stekelly wrote:

There hasnt been trouble other times the Welsh were over.

When was the last time we played Wales, 1990 in the RDS ?

I just reckon they have a nasty element in their support and will travel in numbers. Might meet up with a few UFF etc on the way like the English did in '95

***Pedantic reply alert***

Stekelly wrote:

I'd bet all my money they dont, Hill 16 is a terrace and will be empty for the football matchs.

Thought that myself until I read on some thread on foot.ie about the same type of seats used in terrace in germany for the WC being put there and the away fans being located there cos it is a segregated area in Croke Park. Might not be the case though, should not believe everything I read on foot.ie

Guy:Incognito

Benedict XVI wrote:

When was the last time we played Wales, 1990 in the RDS ?

I just reckon they have a nasty element in their support and will travel in numbers. Might meet up with a few UFF etc on the way like the English did in '95

***Pedantic reply alert***


Thought that myself until I read on some thread on foot.ie about the same type of seats used in terrace in germany for the WC being put there and the away fans being located there cos it is a segregated area in Croke Park. Might not be the case though, should not believe everything I read on foot.ie

The bucket seats were only used as special dispensation for Ireland because they made assureances to UEFA that a new stadium was imenant and it brought the capacity from 25k ish to 45k ish.

Plus AFAIK hill 15 is too steep for the buckets anyway.

Draupnir

Thye are using special terracing seats, which Hill 16 is equipped and built to use, much like the ones used in Dortmund during the world cup.

Bucket seats are a thing of the past, for use only in places like the Point

Drag00n79

For anyone interested the programme is being repeated on BBC 1, Thursday night/Friday morning, 17th August at 01:35

Taken from DigiGuide - the world's best TV guide available from http://www.getdigiguide.com/?p=1&r=58187

Mossy Monk

with sign language no doubt