Cycling on Footpaths

slu1exm

I live in the city centre of Dublin and my main sources of transport are either walking or cycling. However what really gets my goat is people cycling on footpaths. The amount of times I have been almost hit by people on bikes on foothpaths in the last six months is unreal. I don't cycle on foothpaths and it drives me nuts when other people do. I can understand that people might have safety concerns but I feel if you don't feel safe cycling on the road you shouldn't be cycling in the city. This probably annoys me more becaue I cycle and do use the roads.

Also as far as I am aware, a bicycle is pretty much treated the same as a car in legal terms. So does this mean that if you hit someone when cycling and injury them you will be treated the same as if you were driving a car on a footpath? Also I thought cycling on footpaths was illegal. Does anyone know if this is the case? Has anyone been charged with this by the police or does anyone know anyone who has been charge? I have seen cyclists breeze past police on two seperate occasions with the last two months and nothing was done.

I'm pretty sure that the next time someone on a bike almost runs me over I'm going to lose, it drag them off the bike and thump them. Anyone any hints/tips on how not to do this?

Explosive_Cornflake

Yes, cycling on foot paths is illegal. The only time I do it is when I'm walking with someone, so I'm going at walking pace, so I couldn't knock some over, and I pull over if there isn't room. I figure i take up less space being on the bike, than pushing it beside me.

monkeyfudge

It's a pet hate of mine too. I walk to and from work every day so I encounter it a lot.

Only today I had someone wizz right at me on the footpath and I had to actually move out of the way as they were busy saying hello to someone that they knew in a garden.

Had another zoom right past me from behind as I was walking home in the evening as well.

The roads weren't even busy on either occasion.

wahlrab

i tend never to cycle on footpaths unless as mentioned above i am with someone who is walking, although there is times when i'm cycling home from work really late like 2 or 3am and i cycle on the footpaths as i don't trust drivers at that time of night even with lights and reflectors,

but during the day i never cycle on a path, i don't know why people would want to i am already dodging people walking in the cycle lane!

jman0

It's against the law alright.
I try not to do it, however admittantly there are a few situations where i do:

1) where the cycletrack abrutly ends and instead of jumping the kerb to rejoin the road, i'll take the footpath until i reach a ramped section

2) On quiet footpaths where there is no cycle lane provided and cars are queing and leave no room for me on the road. This is usually a shortlived excursion however because the whole time i'm looking for an "in" to get back on the road. On occasion i take the middle of the road but that can be dodgy.

3) Coming out of work where there is no cycle lane and i'm taking the immediate left, which is about 20m away. I'll take the footpath (since cars have queued and haven't left me any room) and rejoin the road after i've turned.

4) A particular intersection where i turn Right, and the cars are traveling at unsafe speeds in the morning rush. I try to crossover to the righthand footpath ahead of the intersection (have never seen a pedestrian using it at this hour anyway). It's the safest way for me to turn right.

Having said that i know very well that i am in the wrong technically, and slow WAY down if i come across a pedestrian.

ferdi

why would you do it? you cant cycle as fast!

segasega

There is far too many bad and cocky cyclist in Dublin. Most people cycle on the path due to being scared to cycle on the road, stupid yes but some people are either too lazy to walk or cant afford a car or bus fare. I sometimes cycle on the path for some of the reasons stated above i.e no room on the road due to traffic or shortcuts. But sometimes it really annoys me if I have to cycle on the path and a person stops and moves right over even though you are no way near them as if you are some drunk driver falling from side to side or something, bit of an over reaction really when there is plenty of room.

People can moan about cyclist on the path but in the city center a much worse hazard is the stupid people walking in cycle lanes and stepping into them to cross the road without even looking. Seems to be an even amount of stupid cyclist as there is stupid pedestrians. I have ridden a bike most of my life and cycled on many a path and never hit a person or come close, I guess some people are either crap cyclists or some people are just over reacting to them.

P.S I think cyclist have all the right in the world to cycle on the path in this country if its for safety reasons as the drivers in Ireland never look out for them! If you think there is idiots on bikes think about all the idiots with cars!

interested

pet hate of mine and reminds me of one of those moments Anger Management moments ...

i was walking from between the wooden bridge and the causeway road along the clontarf road. Towards me came a cyclist, making no attempt to slow down and checked my left shoulder as he passed me towards the city. I kept walking - then I hear a car slam on, beep its horn ... I turned to see what it was and it was the happy-go-lucky cyclist. After he passed me - he had obviously turned around by crossing or turning in the road and was now on the far side of the road attempting to cross both lanes to arrive back to me. My interest got the better of me so I stopped walking - he finally made it across the road and asked me why I was trying to kill him .... I pointed out that a) clycling on paths is illegal b) I cycled alot myself and have no problems using the road or cycle lane c) he should really consider not doing a u'ey on a bike on a busy road to spout whatever the ill informed rodent in his head had conjured up from the lofty moral high ground he felt he was in

Ive no problem sharing footpaths with cyclists - but when it becomes a case of 'hey made you're walking on my footpath' I really begin to wonder. A relatively funny story at this stage since I now not all cyclists are psychopaths .... every pun intended.

Johnny Storm

Just FYI some elderly people are really frightend of cyclists on paths. Some elderly people cannot react or move fast enough to get out of your way and have bad balance. Old people in general are frightened of falling (or being knocked) down. They are also just nervous of fast moving objects in or near their personal space. Please show consideration if you are cycling near an elderly person especially if you are on the path.

Remember you may end up being an elderly person yourself someday (if you are lucky)

segasega

If i see and old person I try to move as far away from them as I can as I know they can get scared sometimes when out walking. Sometimes I will even get off my bike and walk. I wouldn't be too consired about such an issue, I think this is just an other part of the bigger issue which is there is as many bad cyclist in Dublin as there are bad drivers. So the good drivers have to avoid the bad cyclist and the good cyclist have to avoid the bad drivers.

NewFrockTuesday

Ive no problem with cyclists using the footpaths as long as they keep their eyes open.

I was 6 months pregnant and coming out of the IFSC onto the footpath just opposite the coffee angle vannie. A courier came belting up the footpath and turned his head to sneeze and kept going full speed.

I had stepped onto the path but between him having his head turned and eyes close and the speed he was going at he bashed straight into me and sent me flying.
If he had been going at a reasonable rate he would have had time to avoid me and save alot of upset.
I used to cycle to work but going up Pearse Street adn across Butt Bridge and getting in lane to go through North Strand is too friggin' scary now.

segasega

A lot of couriers in Dublin are pretty ignorant, they think they are the best cyclists ever, even though I have many crash and hit other people. A lot of this can be put down to the fad of fixy bikes. Some people know how to ride these and are great cyclist, but a lot of them have no clue and often have to run a front break as they cant slow down enough. Yes the bikes are low maintenance but is it really worth it if you put people like the pregnant lady above are risk of being hit by you.

Noopti

People cycling on footpaths doesn't really bother me.

What does bother me is idiots cycling in bus lanes who refuse to pull out to allow the bus to pass. But I suppose its great fun getting the bus into work, where you end up travelling most of the bus lanes at around 15mph because of some cyclist who doesn't give a crap.
I have met the odd good cyclist who has good situational awarness and the confidence to pull out to allow a bus to pass, but they are rare.
So if the people who aren't willing or haven't got the confidence to pull out would cycle on footpaths, it wouldn't bother me. At least they wouldn't be delaying 40+ people from getting to work on time.

segasega

Ye that anooys me too, I always pull out of the way for that fact, its a lot of people to be holding up!

Drapper

What annoys me more than cyclist on foothpaths is walkers in cycle-paths and taxi's! ;-) great target practice............ prime spots this goes on Phoenix Park!! the ipod gang and the likes!!

daymobrew

Noopti wrote:

What does bother me is idiots cycling in bus lanes who refuse to pull out to allow the bus to pass. ....snip ....
I have met the odd good cyclist who has good situational awarness and the confidence to pull out to allow a bus to pass, but they are rare.

For those good cyclists, it works both ways. Numerous times, heading west on the Navan Road (Cabra/Ashtown area), buses have slowed down behind me to let me get ahead before they pull into a stop. I will always acknowledge this with a wave.
A few years ago I wrote to Dublin Bus to thank the drivers for this action. The reply said that they didn't get too many positive letters. It said that they take pride in the extensive training that drivers receive.

Tales Of Topogr

.....

ferdi

cars parking and taxis stopping on cycle lanes...grrr!

Drapper

ferdi wrote:

cars parking and taxis stopping on cycle lanes...grrr!

:pYeah down with that sorta thinng!!

Victor

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=51807829&postcount=71

Mucco wrote:

I understand your frustration at being harassed by cyclists on the footpath, but you have to question the actual danger they pose.
In the UK, between 2000 and 2004, 13 pedestrians were killed by cyclists. All of them were on the road at the time (source: Hansard). In the same period, 200 pedestrians on the footpath were killed by motorists. Therefore, although a nuisance, cyclists do not pose much danger to pedestrians on the footpath. (Apologies for using UK stats, can't find similar Irish ones).

Of course, you have to question why cyclists feel the need to use the footpath, especially as it's more dangerous than the road (John Franklin). Is it because they are intimidated by motor traffic?

billyk

fixed wheelers are fairly illegal as they dont have brakes and the law says all road going bicycles must be fitted with 2 brakes, front on the right, rear on the left.
the other thing is bus lanes, lots of these cyclists are allowed use just check the little bus lane sign, so i dont see why you would move out for a bus because if you do you're in the middle of 2 lanes of moving traffic which is more than a bit dangerous, why not just hug the kerb?

Noopti

They should move out of the way.....if they aren't confident enough to move into the left lane of traffic, then they shouldn't be cycling on roads....let alone motorways(where this seems to happen most).

daymobrew

Noopti wrote:

They should move out of the way.....if they aren't confident enough to move into the left lane of traffic, then they shouldn't be cycling on roads....let alone motorways(where this seems to happen most).

Motorways? I am assuming that this is a typo as bicycles are not permitted on motorways.

Yes, cyclists should move left, and even stop, to let a bus pass, for a few reasons: 1) they are holding up a lot of people, 2) it is much safer to have a many ton vehicle ahead of you than sitting right behind you, 3) as a courtesy. As I said earlier, bus drivers may reward you.

markpb

I usually pull in to let a bus go by but in many cases it's difficult because the bus lane is too narrow to let the bus overtake you, there's a kerb that you can't get up on or, more commonly, the bus will stop a few meters after they go past you.

Noopti wrote:

They should move out of the way.....if they aren't confident enough to move into the left lane of traffic, then they shouldn't be cycling on roads....let alone motorways(where this seems to happen most).

Expecting cyclists to pull out into the traffic is silly, it's a dangeous move that won't win you any friends among the car drivers and, in many cases, will leave you stuck in the outside lane with buses and taxis refusing to let you back in. Danger to cyclists is the primary reason cycle lanes and combi bus/cycle lanes exist.

On the balance, cyclists have a higher average speed than buses in most parts of Dublin so it makes no difference who lets who go past.

jman0

daymobrew wrote:

Motorways? I am assuming that this is a typo as bicycles are not permitted on motorways.

Yes, cyclists should move left, and even stop, to let a bus pass, for a few reasons: 1) they are holding up a lot of people, 2) it is much safer to have a many ton vehicle ahead of you than sitting right behind you, 3) as a courtesy. As I said earlier, bus drivers may reward you.

I guess i don't understand the problem here.
I find that if the road is narrow and my presence is causing a tailback (like when there's a lorry breathing down my back on a country road) i'll pull over and let them thru.
Depending on the road ahead anyway.
If i'm approaching a red light and we're all going to be stopping anyway, then maybe i won't bother pulling over.
However with city cycling, often i am quicker than a bus, fair enough he might overtake me on a straight stretch (or when we hit a succession of green lights) but generally he's going to be pulling over at the next bus stop, and i'm just going to be overtaking him again anyway.
So in that scenario i may not let him thru.
Remember it's also very unpleasant to be behind a bus, there is NO AIR to breathe back there.
But if i'm cycling and i see a bus at stop that wants to move out, i'll hold up and let him ahead (if he's already in gear nudging forward) But if people are getting on/off the bus i'll speed up to overtake him.
It's all very situational.
But as a rule, i dont prefer to be the cause of any tailback.
But some bus drivers will drive ontop of your backwheel, even tho he's just going to be pulling into the next bus stop 50m ahead.

I even had one beep at me, overtake me on a narrow road then manoevre over to sweep me off the road. Using his bus as a weapon insofar as i am concerned (on a Sunday morning btw).
He did this because there exists one of those "off road cycle tracks" on that stretch, but it's in such a sorry state that thre is no way in hell i'm using it on my road bike!

Mucco

jman0 wrote:

I even had one beep at me, overtake me on a narrow road then manoevre over to sweep me off the road. Using his bus as a weapon insofar as i am concerned (on a Sunday morning btw).
He did this because there exists one of those "off road cycle tracks" on that stretch, but it's in such a sorry state that thre is no way in hell i'm using it on my road bike!

I find this quite a common occurance in Dublin, the answer is to not let them past in the first place by cyling in the middle of the lane. It may drive the passengers nuts, but my safety is a priority over saving them 30s on their way to work.
However, I'll quite often let a bus past do that I can get in behind and draft them. You need good brakes, and close concentration, but it's fast and mostly effortless.

M

robfitz

billyk wrote:

fixed wheelers are fairly illegal as they dont have brakes and the law says all road going bicycles must be fitted with 2 brakes, front on the right, rear on the left.

No there fine.

Road Traffic (Construction, Equipment and Use of Vehicles) Regulations, 1963
...
Pedal cycles.
93. (1) Every pedal cycle (other than a cycle constructed or adapted for use as a racing cycle) while used in a public place shall be fitted with an audible warning device consisting of a bell capable of being heard at a reasonable distance, and no other type of audible warning instrument shall be fitted to a pedal cycle while used in a public place.
(2) Every pedal cycle (other than a cycle so constructed that the pedals act directly on any wheel or its axle without the intervention of any gearing, chain or other device) while used in a public place shall be equipped with an efficient braking device, or two efficient braking devices, in accordance with the following provisions, that is to say:—
(a) where at least one wheel of the cycle is incapable of rotating independently of the pedals or where the cycle is designed for use by a child not more than seven years of age, the cycle shall be equipped with one braking device;
(b) in any other case, the cycle shall be equipped with two braking devices and, in the case of a bicycle, one device shall operate on the front wheel and one device shall operate on the rear wheel.
...

billyk wrote:

the other thing is bus lanes, lots of these cyclists are allowed use just check the little bus lane sign

A cyclist can use a bus lane at anytime, a cyclist is not allowed use a contra bus lane.

Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997
...
Bus Lanes
32. (1) A bus lane shall be indicated by means of traffic sign number RUS 028 or traffic sign number RUS 029 used in association with traffic sign number RRM 024, and a contra flow bus lane shall be indicated by means of traffic sign number RUS 030 used in association with traffic sign number RRM 024.
(2) A person shall not enter a bus lane with a vehicle other than an omnibus or a pedal cycle during the period of operation of the bus lane which shall be indicated on an information plate.
(3) A person shall not enter a contra flow bus lane with a vehicle other than an omnibus.
(4) A person shall not enter a bus only street with a vehicle other than an omnibus except for the purpose of access.
(5) ( a ) Sub-articles (1) and (2) shall not apply to a vehicle crossing a with flow bus lane or a contra flow bus lane solely for the purpose—
(i) of entering or leaving premises or property adjacent to such a bus lane, or
(ii) of entering or leaving a road inset adjacent to such a bus lane in order to load or unload goods.
( b ) Sub-article (2) shall not apply to a taxi or a wheelchair accessible taxi which is being used in the course of business.
...

daymobrew

jman0 wrote:

I even had one beep at me, overtake me on a narrow road then manoevre over to sweep me off the road. Using his bus as a weapon insofar as i am concerned (on a Sunday morning btw).
He did this because there exists one of those "off road cycle tracks" on that stretch, but it's in such a sorry state that thre is no way in hell i'm using it on my road bike!

Have you reported the driver to the Gardai or the bus company?
Have you reported the cycle track to the local authority?
Nothing will change if you don't tell those with the power to fix it. I agree with the cynics that reporting stuff doesn't guarantee change.

jman0

daymobrew wrote:

Have you reported the driver to the Gardai or the bus company?
Have you reported the cycle track to the local authority?
Nothing will change if you don't tell those with the power to fix it. I agree with the cynics that reporting stuff doesn't guarantee change.

Nope, i was heading out to Wicklow for my sunday morning spin.
It's not the route i commute to work and so only traverse this stretch once a week. And after that incident i just changed my route so now i never pass it.
I wasn't going to wait around for a gard, nor trouble myself trying to locate the nearest garda station. I could ring them i suppose, but after a previous incident where i was knocked by a bus (and got into an altercation with the driver, whom refused to give me his insurance details and then fled the scene) and the unhelpfulness of the gards at th time, whom point blank refused to allow me to make a statement and were nothing less than an obstruction to justice (lied on the garda abstract report) I really have ZERO faith in them, nor maintain any respect for them.

I haven't had any dealings with any local councils, but i've heard lots of rants about LC's generally, and considering the motor-centric approach to transportation in this country and the lack of adequate cycle facilities, not forgetting the "motorist first" approach to the design of cycle facilties.... well i know i'm a 2nd or 3rd class road user and that there is only a thin veneer of civility on irish roads. Today i'm young enough to take my well being for granted and i risk my neck cycling (cause i like cycling), maybe someday i'll "cop-on" and "grow-up" and become another fat bastard inside a metal box, consuming fossil fuels for ridiculously short trips (like 100m to the local shop like some motorists i know..) It certainly seems the way "society" prefers things.


/rant

Civilian_Target

Occasionally, theres a really bad design moment when the cyclelane *is* the footpath, and people are walking on your cycle lane. A prime example of this is the Navan road from the Halfway House roundabout to the Castleknock Roundabout - you're forced to share a pavement with pedestrians, and it's barely wide enough for two bikes to pass anyway! As a rule of thumb, the only time I'll cycle on a pavement is when I want to turn right at a "no turn right" junction (in which case you have to fall back to pedestrian pace anyway) or when you're forced to do it, like on the Navan road (which is just crap).

cyclopath2001

markpb wrote:

Danger to cyclists is the primary reason cycle lanes and combi bus/cycle lanes exist.

If cyclist safety was the primary reason for cycle lanes, then you'd expect them to operate at night. Also, you'd expect to find cycle lanes on narrow roads & not just on wide ones where they're not of any benefit.

Likewise, the PD Minister for Transport, Bobby Molloy, would not have amended the regulations so as to force cyclists to share cycle lanes with motor vechicles. No doubt, he was was following PD dogma of open competition.
The primary reason why cycle lanes exist in Ireland is to make more space for cars by forcing cyclists to use poor-quality sections of road that they would not otherwise use and footpaths which are primarily for pedestrians and not suitable for cycling..