cell mate

thebaz

ok , picture the scene, you have been handed 6 months in the Joy , for canabis possesion, fraud or some minor offence ... your devasted , you've showered , and the PO/screw brings you to your cell . You hope you at least get a cell on your own, or with another like minded , less hardened offender ... but instead you have to share with a violent looking HIV infected bi-sexual drug addict , and an evil looking psycho built like a brick ****house , just released from Dundrum hospital for the criminally insane . You beg for solitary , but the PO/screw just laughs as he locks the door ... nightmare scenario , wonder what that fellow who died in the Joy the other day must have went through , i know he himself was in for assault.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

It seems it was quite an ordeal.

It was announced on the radio that details of his attack were too horrendous to broadcast, but I read on the paper that his body was smeard with the excremement of his killer, so you could probably fill in the blanks.

How the fcuk did they not hear him dying?Why did the other prisoners not do anything?

Sleepy

Deleted User wrote:

Why did the other prisoners not do anything?

I'd have imagined that was kind of obvious tbh...

Dragan

Deleted User wrote:

How the fcuk did they not hear him dying?Why did the other prisoners not do anything?

There not gonna risk there necks for some new guy they don't know....that my friend, is called suicide.

Shauna21

Sleepy wrote:

I'd have imagined that was kind of obvious tbh...

They let it happen because behind their Big Hard Man persona is a wimpering little coward, I hope that it haunts them for the rest of their lives. I am utterly disgusted by it.:mad: Where the **** were the prison officers and why when he asked for help was nothing done about it. It stinks of Corruption.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Shauna21 wrote:

It stinks of Corruption.

It's prison

Don't plan to be going there myself. They're all scum tbh

Splinter

It's Sick,It's sad and my deepest sympthathies to the family and friends.

Dragan

Shauna21 wrote:

They let it happen because behind their Big Hard Man persona is a wimpering little coward

Not really, the let it happen because in the criminal world there is really not that high a moral standing, your risk your neck for very few people and only those you know. There is no value on life....the guy who died would have meant less than nothing to most if not all of the people in there. It would be NICE to think they were scared, that it was something human that stopped them....the simple fact is they did not care.

Shauna21 wrote:

I hope that it haunts them for the rest of their lives.

Sadly, it won't.

Shauna21 wrote:

I am utterly disgusted by it.:mad:

With you 100%

Shauna21 wrote:

Where the **** were the prison officers and why when he asked for help was nothing done about it. It stinks of Corruption.

Agreed.

Degsy

Mountjoy is like a secondary school to a lot of the scumbags in Dublin.St Pats being thier primary.One of the first lessons you learn is nothing is anybody's business,if a bloke dies in your cell you saw nothing,if somebody gets slashed you saw nothing,you dont talk to the screws and you dont rat on people.If you're not known in there the best thing to do is keep yourself to yourself,if somebody starts on you though you have to fight them otherwise you'll become a target for every ****head in the place and you'll be bullied from pillar to post.Most of the serious violence that goes on in there is people settling scores,usually drug debts but it can be triggered over the slightest thing,a lot of blokes in there have severe mental problems and most are on drugs of some sort.Enjoy!

Creamy Goodness

Dragan wrote:

There not gonna risk there necks for some new guy they don't know....that my friend, is called suicide.

also not to mention being locked in a cell...

Shauna21

Dragan wrote:

Not really, the let it happen because in the criminal world there is really not that high a moral standing, your risk your neck for very few people and only those you know. There is no value on life....the guy who died would have meant less than nothing to most if not all of the people in there. It would be NICE to think they were scared, that it was something human that stopped them....the simple fact is they did not care.



Sadly, it won't.



With you 100%



Agreed.

I still think the are cowards, you cannot tell me that six cellmates sat there and watched a young man die simply because they did not give a **** about him. If that was the case I think they should be charged with been an accessory to murder.

Dragan

Shauna21 wrote:

I still think the are cowards, you cannot tell me that six cellmates sat there and watched a young man die simply because they did not give a **** about him. If that was the case I think they should be charged with been an accessory to murder.

That is exactly what i am telling you. Your applying human standards to people who are less than human.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

It's not that they couldn't give a **** about him, it's that they give a **** about themselves. If they did something, they could end up at best having the **** kicked out of them for being a snitch, at worst dead or in a vegetative state.

Degsy

Dragan wrote:

That is exactly what i am telling you. Your applying human standards to people who are less than human.

In an environment where being human is a positive dissadvantage.

Dragan

Degsy wrote:

In an environment where being human is a positive dissadvantage.

Bingo. You gotta be cold to get through some decent time in a tough prison. Show weakness and you make things a lot harder for yourself.

Shauna21

sean_keevey wrote:

It's not that they couldn't give a **** about him, it's that they give a **** about themselves. If they did something, they could end up at best having the **** kicked out of them for being a snitch, at worst dead or in a vegetative state.

That really pisses me off, I always think that there is some decency in a person, its bullying in the most extreme way.
My other question was he asked for help and was not given it, why???? SHAME ON THEM!!!

So was the man sexually assaulted?

At night.Do the guards not be around?Surely you would hear that?These guards get paid €80000 a year.You would think they would do their job properly.

I was really sickened to hear this story.:mad:

WellyJ

Dragan and Degsy,

Have you both served time in the Joy?

Dragan

WellyJ wrote:

Dragan and Degsy,

Have you both served time in the Joy?

Nope, but i know people who have done time in various places. Anyone who thinks it's a picnic is kidding themselves.

Doctor Fell

I hate when people consider others "less than human". Horrible attitude to have.
No matter what a criminal does they are still human, like members of "civilised" society. Anybody is capable of crime, we all have the potential, so we shouldn't be on our high horses when it comes to criminals.
In this case, the State had a duty of care towards this man, in which they failed miserably. Everyone knows prisons here are hell holes, and this is another damning indictment. Unfortunately, nothing will be done, because "normal" society do see these people as being less than human.
Also, look at the difference in treatment politicians get in prison compared to this poor young fellow - fcuking disgrace that he had died like that.
Why can't we be more humane to prisoners?

Ruu_Old

I'd tunnel through the walls like Andy Dufresne in Shawshank Redemption.:)
*walks around whistling while dumping pieces of wall from trousers*

Doctor Fell

Ruu wrote:

I'd tunnel through the walls like Andy Dufresne in Shawshank Redemption.:)
*walks around whistling while dumping pieces of wall from trousers*

Speaking of which, when I read the Stephen King story years ago, I thought he did actually kill his wife, no?? Did he not stash the gun in that box under the tree? Coz in the film he was innocent...

Dragan

Doctor Fell wrote:

I hate when people consider others "less than human". Horrible attitude to have.
No matter what a criminal does they are still human, like members of "civilised" society.

I would consider being "human" to go hand in hand with having certain physical, emotional, mental and moral traits. People who carry out certain acts, do not convey those traits to me.

Therefore i would consider them to be less than human. Child-molesters, rapists, murderers. All those people are less than human to me, and i'll not apologise for that way of thinking.

Dragan

Doctor Fell wrote:

Speaking of which, when I read the Stephen King story years ago, I thought he did actually kill his wife, no?? Did he not stash the gun in that box under the tree? Coz in the film he was innocent...

I assume they were looking for the Hollywood ending...in fairness, the Andy Dufrane character was quite likeable in an odd sort of way....it would have been savage if they ended the film that way!

Doctor Fell

Dragan wrote:

I would consider being "human" to go hand in hand with having certain physical, emotional, mental and moral traits. People who carry out certain acts, do not convey those traits to me.

Therefore i would consider them to be less than human. Child-molesters, rapists, murderers. All those people are less than human to me, and i'll not apologise for that way of thinking.

I'm not asking you to apologise, its your opinion mate! You don't think you're being a tad too harsh and dramatic though? You are tarring these people with the same brush - commit one of these crimes and you're sub human, no circumstances, background or excuses allowed. Very totalitarian I have to say. Certainly their horrible acts do not convey admirable traits, but you are focusing on one act or specific instance i.e the crime - very narrow minded. And besides, no human is perfect, no human is 100% good. We all make mistakes, its part of being human. So to say making mistakes makes us less than human is a bit nonsensical to me.

Doctor Fell

Dragan wrote:

I assume they were looking for the Hollywood ending...in fairness, the Andy Dufrane character was quite likeable in an odd sort of way....it would have been savage if they ended the film that way!

Yes, the Hollywood factor is what happened I think. I remember watching the film waiting for the gun to be found, but it wasn't!! Very dissappointing....or did I remember the book ending incorrectly?

Dragan

Doctor Fell wrote:

I'm not asking you to apologise, its your opinion mate! You don't think you're being a tad too harsh and dramatic though? You are tarring these people with the same brush - commit one of these crimes and you're sub human, no circumstances, background or excuses allowed. Very totalitarian I have to say. Certainly their horrible acts do not convey admirable traits, but you are focusing on one act or specific instance i.e the crime - very narrow minded. And besides, no human is perfect, no human is 100% good. We all make mistakes, its part of being human. So to say making mistakes makes us less than human is a bit non-sensical to me.

Like i said, i know many people who have done time ( i don't know everyone i like, and i don't like everyone i know you could say! ) and i am well aware of circumstances leading to actions that are later regretted by people.

I do not believe however, that any circumstances can justify rape , child molestation...anything like that. Robbery etc yeah sure, i can understand that.

However i draw the line where i deem it's required.

Doctor Fell

Dragan wrote:

I do not believe however, that any circumstances can justify rape , child molestation...anything like that. Robbery etc yeah sure, i can understand that.

However i draw the line where i deem it's required.

That's fair enough, I personally would have no regard or respect or whatever for rapists or child molestors - right up there with the worst sort of crime imo. I imagine it would be hard or impossible to restrain my anger against someone who attacked someone I know in that way. Hope I am never in that position. But I'm not saying you can justify a crime like that, because they probably are not rational crimes. I would say most sex crimes are irrational "passionate" crimes. (I say "passion" because obviously its not acceptable passion.) You can't justify them, but the perpetrators are still human, albeit dangerous humans. They should be treated as such - dangerous people but they are in the custody of the State, and as such should treated in a humane manner.
I'm not trying to defend them and I agree they're sick fcuks - I'm just saying prisoners regardless of crimes should be treated fairly and justly.

Degsy

Its also a fact that its the whole environment of prison is dehumanising.You're treated like scum anyway,you have to sleep in a cell with maybe three other people with an aluminium pot to **** in,you have to listen to them fart,rant,rave,scream and vomit throught cold turkey,talk about themselves all ****in night or insit onplaying the radio when your trying to sleep.In the morning your roared out of your cell then you've to goa nad empty your piss pot befor you collect your breakfast then your locked up again for two hours.AND your day is only beginning.Imagine teh prosepct of that every day for 18 months,it would turn the mind of the sanest person.And thats without all the other crap that conspires to make life unbearable..lack of contact with your family,terrible food,filth and dirt everywhere to say nothing of the lunatics who have nothing to lose strutting around as if they're god,the drugs and the stink.The system is designed to make you feel like you'r enot aperson anymore and in the case of a lot of the blokes in there they no longer are,they've become institutionalised predators without any redeeming features whatsoever.

Doctor Fell

Degsy wrote:

.The system is designed to make you feel like you'r enot aperson anymore and in the case of a lot of the blokes in there they no longer are,they've become institutionalised predators without any redeeming features whatsoever.

I agree with your bleak picture there. And it is the State or system etc. that is to blame for creating this sh*t environment. I mean its probably deliberate to try and "break" the inmates. Its inevitable really that prisoners become the monsters they do when faced with that reality.
But general society doesn't seem to give a toss about it.

Dragan

Doctor Fell wrote:

I agree with your bleak picture there. And it is the State or system etc. that is to blame for creating this sh*t environment. I mean its probably deliberate to try and "break" the inmates. Its inevitable really that prisoners become the monsters they do when faced with that reality.
But general society doesn't seem to give a toss about it.

Indeed, it's worrying that we have a system than can put the slightly wayward in with the hardened criminal.

And yet we expect reform!!! It's crazy really.

thebaz

While Mountjoy (never been inside, although i setup some pc's) is not a holiday camp, like the Dutch or Swedish instituitions , it is nowhere near as bad as the U.S. jails , where your chances of being raped , are pretty damn high ... think i'd prefer Mr. Bush to execute me , than running around the showers , chased by some sexually deprived muscle men and home boys, with sniggering guards watching on ... so basically Mountjoy is not the best , nor the worst !.

meathmannn

Sorry to spoil the party guys, but no -one gets sent to the joy for their forst minor offence.
Go down to any court and look at how hard it is to get people put away, I wouldn't believe one word of what the media are printing on this guy.

NewFrockTuesday

Its also a fact that its the whole environment of prison is dehumanising.You're treated like scum anyway,you have to sleep in a cell with maybe three other people with an aluminium pot to **** in,you have to listen to them fart,rant,rave,scream and vomit throught cold turkey,talk about themselves all ****in night or insit onplaying the radio when your trying to sleep.In the morning your roared out of your cell then you've to goa nad empty your piss pot befor you collect your breakfast then your locked up again for two hours.AND your day is only beginning.Imagine teh prosepct of that every day for 18 months,it would turn the mind of the sanest person.And thats without all the other crap that conspires to make life unbearable..lack of contact with your family,terrible food,filth and dirt everywhere to say nothing of the lunatics who have nothing to lose strutting around as if they're god,the drugs and the stink.The system is designed to make you feel like you'r enot aperson anymore and in the case of a lot of the blokes in there they no longer are,they've become institutionalised predators without any redeeming features whatsoever.

_


Most of the time, if you end up in prison its because you deserve to be there. I think locking up a shop lifting mother of 3 is futile and cruel on the children, but if you land in Mountjoy then youve prolly done something to warrant you being there. I dont have any sympathy for any scum who are in there. Better rotting in there than terrorising people on the outside.


_________________

Terry

i doesn't matter what he did. nobody desereves to be kicked to death.
i've made my feelings about drug dealers quite clear on many occasions and have been slated for my views. i still don't think they should all be kicked to death though.
the guy asked for help. his pleas were ignored and the prison service is to blame for the beating.
however, the guy who killed him is actually responsible for his death.

thebaz

meathmannn wrote:

Sorry to spoil the party guys, but no -one gets sent to the joy for their forst minor offence.
Go down to any court and look at how hard it is to get people put away, I wouldn't believe one word of what the media are printing on this guy.

No one said he was an angel, he was inside for assault and robbery,and was involved in some dispute with associates of his attacker, as far as i know, BUT , what if , you did get sent down for some minorish offence , a bit of hash, small time fraud ... the possibility is that that you could end up sharing a cell with some violent nut case, or sex deprived beast ... that would be my biggest fear .. solitary any day , although they say that drives you mad .

Degsy

thebaz wrote:

While Mountjoy (never been inside, although i setup some pc's) is not a holiday camp, like the Dutch or Swedish instituitions , it is nowhere near as bad as the U.S. jails , where your chances of being raped , are pretty damn high ... think i'd prefer Mr. Bush to execute me , than running around the showers , chased by some sexually deprived muscle men and home boys, with sniggering guards watching on ... so basically Mountjoy is not the best , nor the worst !.

No irish prison is as bad as a US state penitentiary.The US prisons are usually divided along racial lines and subdivided further along gang alegiences.For example in Nevada sate prison within the white communities you've got the Peckerwoods,the Nazi Low Riders,The Aryan Brotherhood.In California there are hundreds of Black gangs loosley aligned with Bloods or Crips.And in New York you have dozens of Mafia families as well as Albanians,Greeks,Irish,Vietnamese,Chinese,Russians and **** knows what else.If you're not linked to a gang when you go inside you'll have to join one quickly otherwise you could find yourself being gang raped by forty home boys or used as a gopher by anybody else who feels like it.The days of the righteous stand-up,fistfighting con are long gone in the states,there's bloke who have more time than its possible to do,they'll sodomise a 90 year old man and cut your throat for a peice of chocolate.

InFront

Yeah pretty much as Julep said above. I have what might be considered a harsh opinion of penalties for drug dealers and organised criminal activity, but no prisoner should be killed in this way regardless of their crime.

I dont know too much about the case, is this different to the dude who had been charged for a serious assault, hardly a different murder is it?

Degsy

InFront wrote:

Yeah pretty much as Julep said above. I have what might be considered a harsh opinion of penalties for drug dealers and organised criminal activity, but no prisoner should be killed in this way regardless of their crime.

I dont know too much about the case, is this different to the dude who had been charged for a serious assault, hardly a different murder is it?

They put lifers in with first timers on purpose,it helps them "get used" to the system and also makes people vulnerable.I think the main reason this is kicking off now is that mountjoy is absolute hell at this time of year.There's no air and the cells are like ovens,people are much more likely to kill somebbody.

InFront

Degsy your knowledge of the prison system is very impressive, but your signature makes this unnerving!:D

Got my wires crossed on the other case I mentioned, it seems some man by the name of Udechuckwu was recently beaten up in prison (it was on the news) and now this murder. Seems like as Degsy says, the weather might be getting at them.

Degsy

InFront wrote:

Degsy your knowledge of the prison system is very impressive, but your signature makes this unnerving!:D

Got my wires crossed on the other case I mentioned, it seems some man by the name of Udechuckwu was recently beaten up in prison (it was on the news) and now this murder. Seems like as Degsy says, the weather might be getting at them.

There might also have been a clampdown on hash or a drought..that usually sends the balloon up as well.

Terry

there is no hash drought.
everyone is just dealing coke instead.

there's plenty in the country, but nobody wants to sell it when they can make more money off coke.
that's the only reason it's ahrd to get.

CJX-3X12

I wouldn't like to go to jail.

Degsy

julep wrote:

there is no hash drought.
everyone is just dealing coke instead.

there's plenty in the country, but nobody wants to sell it when they can make more money off coke.
that's the only reason it's ahrd to get.

I'm talking about within the prison system,if the cons cant have thier smoke they'll go loopy.

Calibos

InFront wrote:

Degsy your knowledge of the prison system is very impressive, but your signature makes this unnerving!:D

Got my wires crossed on the other case I mentioned, it seems some man by the name of Udechuckwu was recently beaten up in prison (it was on the news) and now this murder. Seems like as Degsy says, the weather might be getting at them.

Seems that one might not even be entirely racially motivated. Apparently he went out in the yard and took off his top going barechested and paraded around the yard shouting, "No one will touch me in here".

Talk about a red flag to a load of skanger bulls. What he was in for was another reason mooted for the treatment he got. The irony is that at least on of the scumbags how beat him up is probably inside for killing his girlfriend too. "ah yeah, buh I warned me mot what I'd do her, I only men to beat her to witin' an inch of her life,killin' her was an accident....and I'd never us an effin lump hammer eeder. Much prefer me fists"

Degsy

Calibos wrote:

Seems that one might not even be entirely racially motivated. Apparently he went out in the yard and took off his top going barechested and paraded around the yard shouting, "No one will touch me in here".

Talk about a red flag to a load of skanger bulls. What he was in for was another reason mooted for the treatment he got. The irony is that at least on of the scumbags how beat him up is probably inside for killing his girlfriend too. "ah yeah, buh I warned me mot what I'd do her, I only men to beat her to witin' an inch of her life,killin' her was an accident....and I'd never us an effin lump hammer eeder. Much prefer me fists"

true.Likewise before they started segregating sex offenders from the general population,you'd get rapists attacking other rapists taking the moral high ground over circumstances,age and all sorts of stuff.The vast majority of scumbags consider themselves to be Ordinary Decent Criminals,merely commiting the occasional robbery,burglary or what ahve you but in thier arrogance they often forget about the trauma of thier victims...the elderly person who'll never have a decent night's sleep agin since they were burgled or the poor bastard who was left with brain damage after he tried to stop somebody robbing his car.Then there's the kid who had his mobile stolen at a bus stop and got a few kicks for his troubles and is now afraid of his shadow or the girl who was working in the shop that was held up by a bloke who told her "tell the guards and we'll come back and carve your face up".Ordinary Decent Criminals my arse,most of the ****ers are in mountjoy for a reason and its probably the tenth such time they commited that offence before they got locked up.

bohsboy

Well, only one person to blame here and it's our Minister for Justice. For three years, officers have made reports regarding these holding cells, stating how unsafe they are and passed these on to management. These cells have been overflowing on a nightly basis and it was only a matter of time before something like this kicked off. Only two months ago, the Inspector of Prisons voiced his concerns to the minister about the very cell which was being used to hold 27 prisoners only ten days ago. The Minister did nothing. He shut down three prisons in 2003 to cut the bills and has left the system in dissaray. He must stand down.

Tar.Aldarion

julep wrote:

there is no hash drought.

Ah no, there was three big busts I think.
Harder to get it all right, drought? no.

thegloriousend

If you actually manage to get into mountjoy, which is incredibly hard to do, you probably deserve to die.

Degsy

thegloriousend wrote:

If you actually manage to get into mountjoy, which is incredibly hard to do, you probably deserve to die.

Dont say that,you could get into a row on saturday night,go before the night court and get remanded to mountjoy for the weekend..it has happened.