Is Bush a Fascist yet?

Sgt. Sensible

The Corinthian wrote:

A quick Google got me this, to begin with. There's an essay by him also where he compliments the Nazi economy, but I've not managed to dig it up.

I know about that quote mentioned in your link but it's not quite the same as what you were claiming.

Source? All I can find is a claim by Robert N. Proctor, but not where he got it.

I *think* it's from The Road To Resurgence pamphlet Hitler distributed to Emil Kirdorf and other leading German industrialists in 1927 which assured them he supported private enterprise and wouldn't touch them, but I don't have the full text so I'm not completely sure. The quote is consistent with nazi policy however, and it's one of the reasons the industrialists supported the nazis.

Tyrone

Is Bush a Fascist yet? I don't think so.


Fascism

1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

A person would really have to stretch his imagination beyond insane limits to think Bush is a fascist.

Frankly, If I had my way, Gitmo would not exist. I would simply take a bunch
of prisoners up for a short flight at 10,000 feet, Open the door ask one of the prisoners some questions. If he chose not to speak he would then be Superman without a parachute and then next prisioner would step up to the door.

It's too bad Bush has not learned how to play Hard Ball with these actors yet.

bonkey

Tyrone wrote:

Frankly, If I had my way, Gitmo would not exist. I would simply take a bunch
of prisoners up for a short flight at 10,000 feet, Open the door ask one of the prisoners some questions. If he chose not to speak he would then be Superman without a parachute and then next prisioner would step up to the door.

Good for you. I'm glad to see you so honourably support the fight against those who commit atrocities in the name of their way of life.

Tyrone

bonkey wrote:

Good for you. I'm glad to see you so honourably support the fight against those who commit atrocities in the name of their way of life.

Do unto others before they do unto you

Bless you my Son

Akrasia

you do realise that the people at Guantanamo bay are just 'suspects' and that there have already been a load of peolple there who turned out to be innocent all along

Tyrone

Akrasia wrote:

you do realise that the people at Guantanamo bay are just 'suspects' and that there have already been a load of peolple there who turned out to be innocent all along

Yea I know that and I figure Allah can sort them out too.

Too harsh in your mind I suppose but I don't give a Rats Arse if it saves one American life.

gandalf

Less of the trollish statements Tyrone please. Take part fully in the discussion or be gone.

sceptre

Tyrone wrote:

Yea I know that and I figure Allah can sort them out too.

Too harsh in your mind I suppose but I don't give a Rats Arse if it saves one American life.

In my mind it isn't harsh, it's pretty darned idiotic in the stupid sense. Start throwing suspects out of planes and you're abandoning the basic documents that the USA purports to found its society on. Do that and the rest of the world won't cry too much if the entire country burns as the difference between the society that does idiotic things like that and even the cartoon version in the large print newspapers of the society it claims that threatens its way of life is so small that it may as well not exist. Personally I'd worry about the worth of a country where such suggestions might be taken half-seriously by permanent residents of the funny farm up-state, let alone people with the ability to read cursive script.

I'd like to think you're being dramatic for the sake of being so.

Tyrone

Unlike many of you I have seen war. I know its costs in human lives.

There comes a point when the rule books get thrown out and you do whatever is nessary to survive. You take care of your own.

When the bullets are flying and your friends are dieing you get a whole new perspective on what is right.

It's just fine for you to sit back and discuss the eithics of war while in your nice cozy home and your biggest problem paying for that new mercedes.

Sgt. Sensible

Tyrone wrote:

Is Bush a Fascist yet? I don't think so.


Fascism

1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

Frankly, If I had my way, Gitmo would not exist. I would simply take a bunch of prisoners up for a short flight at 10,000 feet, Open the door ask one of the prisoners some questions. If he chose not to speak he would then be Superman without a parachute and then next prisioner would step up to the door.

Tyrone wrote:

Yea I know that and I figure Allah can sort them out too.

Too harsh in your mind I suppose but I don't give a Rats Arse if it saves one American life.

I know I shouldn't but, are you advocating a policy of terror, belligerent nationalism and racism then?

oscarBravo

Tyrone wrote:

...you get a whole new perspective on what is right.

...blindness?

Tyrone

Sgt. Sensible wrote:

I know I shouldn't but, are you advocating a policy of terror, belligerent nationalism and racism then?

Not at all Sgt. Sensible. Do you have a clue how talkative people become at 10,000 feet? Do you know the terror of incoming fire?

You ever heard of what we refer to as the initial aggressor, you know, the guy that starts the fight. Here we kinda frown on initial aggressors just like Israel,
and put the hammer to them. I read this crap about people calling the Jews Terrorists. I kinda laugh when I read that stuff. They have a small chunk of land
and want to be left alone and every half wit wants to mess with them for whatever reason. We still have Idiots here in the US that want to fight the civil war all over again. You know their great, great, great, Grandaddy fought the yanks and the yanks are evil. We got to get even with them yanks.

Just another example of extremists even in this country.

There comes a time when you move on from old fights and have peace.
Some people just can't move on.

Gordon

Tyrone wrote:

Yea I know that and I figure Allah can sort them out too.

Too harsh in your mind I suppose but I don't give a Rats Arse if it saves one American life.

Some people just can't move on.

Ping Chow Chi

Tyrone wrote:

Yea I know that and I figure Allah can sort them out too.

Too harsh in your mind I suppose but I don't give a Rats Arse if it saves one American life.

What if it is an American muslim that you suspected of wrong doing, would they face the the same fate?

Tyrone

Ping Chow Chi wrote:

What if it is an American muslim that you suspected of wrong doing, would they face the the same fate?

If it were an American fighting for our emeny and against us, you bet. Religion is not the issue.

Sgt. Sensible

Tyrone wrote:

Do you know the terror of incoming fire?

Yes I have played paintball too.

oscarBravo

Tyrone wrote:

If it were an American fighting for our emeny and against us, you bet.

And you're comfortable with using torture to determine whether or not he actually is fighting for your "enemy"? And quite content to murder him if he doesn't tell you what you want to hear?

Tyrone

oscarBravo wrote:

And you're comfortable with using torture to determine whether or not he actually is fighting for your "enemy"? And quite content to murder him if he doesn't tell you what you want to hear?

OscarBravo, You are not in a position to make statements for me. I stated my
position and now your trying to twist it and spin it to your likes. The facts are this. If your my enemy and I need information out of you, I will give you the choice of talking or playing Superman. Call it what you want but you have a choice.

Speaking of prisoners in wartime, How many American prisoners do you think were taken during the Vietnam war. Do you have any idea. A couple hundred
and most all were officers. There was no quarter given as a rule. When you ran out of ammo and put your hands up to surrender, guess what happened. You died. We did not take prisoners unless they were officers. Are you getting a clue yet. War is a Nasty Bussiness.

If you think putting panties on someone and taking photographs or offering someone the choice to talk or play superman is inhumane perhaps you should read this.

http://differentriver.com/archives/2005/06/22/dick-durbin-guantanamo-and-vietnam/


Sgt. Sensible, so you have experenced the terror of PLAYING PAINTBALL!

Amazing that your still alive...... Give me a break

Hobbes

Tyrone wrote:

OscarBravo, You are not in a position to make statements for me. I stated my
position and now your trying to twist it and spin it to your likes.

Based on the rest you wrote. I don't see any spin at all.

Ask yourself this, in a war what is it you are planning to accomplish? How does torturing innocent civilians factor into that plan?

Lets say you want to overthrow Saddams old regime. In order to do so you torture pretty much anyone you like. Do you think these actions would help the civilian public be more or less helpful to your cause?

If you have problems on finding out the answer go read up on what happened in relation to Internment in Northern Ireland.

If you think putting panties on someone and taking photographs or offering someone the choice to talk or play superman is inhumane perhaps you should read this.

So much easier to dismiss when you gloss over the whole of the torture going on. Isn't that right?

Oh and "the rulebook goes out the window" is not true. You are expected to follow certain rules of engagement as a solider. If you are incapable of doing this then you shouldn't be in the military.

As to the OP.. I think we shouldn't call bush a fascist. I think we need a new term. Bushist prehaps.

bonkey

Tyrone wrote:

OscarBravo, You are not in a position to make statements for me. I stated my
position and now your trying to twist it and spin it to your likes. The facts are this. If your my enemy and I need information out of you, I will give you the choice of talking or playing Superman. Call it what you want but you have a choice.

What OB is suggesting is that there is no reason to believe that many of the inmates you've said you'd happily throw out of a plane actually know anything. So you'd be offering them the choice of telling you what htey don't know, or dying for not telling it to you. You'd be doing this on the assumption that they're guilty, without trial. You'd be doing so in ignorance of the reality that the guilt of the vast majority of Gitmo inmantes has not and cannot be proven, and indeed that many have been determined to be innocent of all charges.

So he's not twisting anything to suit himself. You didn't acknowledge the existence of such people, nor make allowances for them. You didn't say that only the ones who were definitely guilty of something would be who you'd trow out of planes.

You even went so far as to pretty-much say that you don't really care about any of them at all :

but I don't give a Rats Arse if it saves one American life.

Of course, I take it you feel this way because you're American.

So to generalise your stance, one should not really care whats being done, as long as it is in the best interest's of one's own nation, and one should not only "do onto others" but do so before they get the chance to.

Strangely, that sounds like justification for the actions of those you're fighting against too.

jc

Jimboo_Jones

Tyrone wrote:

Speaking of prisoners in wartime, How many American prisoners do you think were taken during the Vietnam war. Do you have any idea. A couple hundred
and most all were officers. There was no quarter given as a rule. When you ran out of ammo and put your hands up to surrender, guess what happened. You died. We did not take prisoners unless they were officers. Are you getting a clue yet. War is a Nasty Bussiness.

Some would argue that it was actions like this which lost American support for the war and ultimatly lead to America's defeat in Vietnam.

By the way it would seem your ideals and values seem to mirror the terrorists quite closely.

Akrasia

There were about 50,000 dead American soldiers in the Vietnam war. There were about 4 million dead vietnamese, and this was in a war that American lost.
that's a ratio of 80 vietnamese (mostly civilians) for every one American soldier.
Not quite the 10,000 to 1 ratio that Tyrone is advocating in his 'push them out of a plane' scenario.

The Corinthian

Tyrone wrote:

Unlike many of you I have seen war. I know its costs in human lives.

So what? Neither have most of the politicians that sent you to that war in the first place. Let us know when the penny drops.

uberpixie

The Corinthian wrote:

So what? Neither have most of the politicians that sent you to that war in the first place. Let us know when the penny drops.

The politicians children or the rich people and their children hardly ever go to war either....

Funny that.

Sgt. Sensible

Tyrone wrote:

Sgt. Sensible, so you have experenced the terror of PLAYING PAINTBALL!

Amazing that your still alive...... Give me a break

That was a roundabout way of saying that I'm sceptical of your claim to have seen combat. I have quite a few friends and relatives who have served in both gulf wars and none of them particularly like to talk about their experiences, especially not with the attitude you're displaying here.

Perhaps we should apply your system of justice to US troops in Iraq then too? There seems to be a growing number of atrocities being committed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5246424.stm

Take this case

A US military hearing has examined testimony of how three soldiers took it in turns to try to rape an Iraqi girl aged 14 in Mahmudiya in March.

The girl and three family members were allegedly killed by four US soldiers.

Graphic details of the attack at the family's home came in a sworn statement by one of the accused, James P Barker.
[....]
According to Mr Barker's statement, he and Mr Cortez took it in turns to rape or attempt to rape her.

Mr Barker heard shots from the bedroom, and Steven Green emerged with an AK-47 in his hand saying "They're all dead. I just killed them."

According to the testimony, Mr Green then also raped the girl and shot her dead.

Her body was doused in kerosene and set alight.

Just round up US troops at random, take them up 10,000 feet, ask them if they've raped or murdered anyone lately, then chuck them out if they don't talk. Yes?



Thread derailed?