Israel/Lebanon/Hezbollah Crisis Thread was the "Is Israel right" thread

uberpixie

Hobbes wrote:

TBH I am surprised there isn't sanctions imposed on Israel for thier actions.

The US pretty much veto everything.

http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa03.html

Have a look at the kind of things the US veto in the UN.

It's sick.

nikolaitr

Benedict XVI wrote:

So the hell what if all the above happened,

I know I will take loads of flack for this but it is my opinion and I stand by it.

For all it’s existence Israel has and to fight against Arabs (with the exclusion of Egypt and Jordan since their peace deals) that have no other object in life only to see Israel wiped off the map, as a result Israel has to defend it’s self, and if that defense of their state involved the death of civilians so what ?

The simple solution to this is for all the Arabs to stop trying to destroy Israel, let them live in peace and then Israel will stop retaliating against attacks on its people and forces.

Until that happens many more Arabs will die and it will be no ones fault but their own.

I bet you were one of the many who supported attacking Serbia huh?. Its funny how the Media rallied behind Israel yet attacked Serbia for more or less doing the same thing??

Benedict XVI

nikolaitr wrote:

I bet you were one of the many who supported attacking Serbia huh?. Its funny how the Media rallied behind Israel yet attacked Serbia for more or less doing the same thing??

I did not see and still do not see Serbia being attacked by it neighbours.

Benedict XVI

Benedict XVI wrote:

So the hell what if all the above happened,

I know I will take loads of flack for this but it is my opinion and I stand by it.

For all it’s existence Israel has and to fight against Arabs (with the exclusion of Egypt and Jordan since their peace deals) that have no other object in life only to see Israel wiped off the map, as a result Israel has to defend it’s self, and if that defense of their state involved the death of civilians so what ?

The simple solution to this is for all the Arabs to stop trying to destroy Israel, let them live in peace and then Israel will stop retaliating against attacks on its people and forces.

Until that happens many more Arabs will die and it will be no ones fault but their own.

So if a 2 year old dies in an Israeli airstrike? Its the 2 year old's fault, is that correct or am I misinterpreting you?

kona

Deleted User wrote:

Elaborate plz.......

well, they seem to keep pushing the boundaries as regards abusing other countries like nazis did in 1930s.
The Israelis are blowing the bajaysus outa lebanon and are kiling civillians for no reason at all, they are now preping a ground invasion which will prob be a go either tonight or tomorrow.
They are using phosphorous(unconfirmed reports) which is a chemical agent,a.k.a chemical warfare.
as posted above a list of atrocities.
they are targeting civvie conoys and medics.
what i mean by jews is israel, lets face it the muppets orchastrating this are jews, to be a israeli citizen you HAVE to be jewish.so that would mean you have to be jewish to serve in the armed forces.
i know its bad but its a bit rich the israelis going on about the holocaust so much when what they are doing to lebanon isnt much better than the nazis, they make me sick, id hope to god the yanks just say **** it and side with the arabs on this, hell it may even solve their 'war on terror'.

mike65

I obviously don't expect the US to stop Israel, considering they have supplied the Israeli army with 10's of Billions of Military Aid. But the UN???

Why would you expect the UN to be able to Stop Israels curent policy? The UN can't/won't stop North Korea, Iran, Zimbabwe - you name it. The UN is a geo-political busted flush. Action will only happen if the true power brokers want it to.

Mike.

Benedict XVI

Deleted User wrote:

So if a 2 year old dies in an Israeli airstrike? Its the 2 year old's fault, is that correct or am I misinterpreting you?

The 2 year old is just a casualty of a war on a country that refuses to let it's neighbor live in peace, the same way a 2 years old Israeli on bus is when it is attached by an Arab suicide bomber.

If the parents on the Arab 2 year old wanted to live in peace whey would not live with the mindset that Israel should be destroyed.
And don't tell me that most Arabs what to live in peace or don't have the above mindset, cos if they did they would have put pressure on their leaders to recognize Israel 40+ years ago.

kona

Benedict XVI wrote:

The 2 yaer old is just a causalty of a war on a country that refuses to let it's neighbor live in peace, the same way a 2 yaesr old Israeli on bus is when it is attached by an Arab suicide bomber.

If the partens on the Arab 2 yaer old whanted to live in peace whey would not live with the mindset that Israel should be destroyed.
And don't tell me that most Arabs what to live in peace or don't have the above mindset, cos if they did they would have put pressure on their leaders to recognise Israel 40+ years ago.

no matter what argument you put forward about suicide bombers, none of this would have happend if israel didnt exist, they jew left that region 1000s of years ago, and some wise guy put them there after ww2, honestly they should be removed by force and given a homeland in a part of oz or usa

uberpixie

Benedict XVI wrote:

The simple solution to this is for all the Arabs to stop trying to destroy Israel, let them live in peace and then Israel will stop retaliating against attacks on its people and forces.

Until that happens many more Arabs will die and it will be no ones fault but their own.

http://www.counterpunch.org/Cockburn07212006.html

Also have a listen to the Robert Fisk that DaveMcG listed links for in this thread.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054962715

The fact of the matter is the Europan powers decided to draw a line on a map with the creation of Israel without giving a damn about the opinion of the people of that region thought or the potential fallout.

They decided on a quick fix.

Over 700,000 Palestinians were forced out of Israel in 1948: they lost their homes and their farms and recieved no compensation.

If you lived and farmed on land for over 2000 years and then were forced off it, lost your home and your lively hood and got no compensation: imagine how you would react.

Even today Israel still occupy land illegally in Palestine past the agreed 1967 borders.

Imagine what it's like living in absolute poverty in a tin shack looking over at a wall, behind which was land you owned, which you farmed for generations.

Untill the IDF came in kicked you off it and bulldozed your house. And then put settlers on it and then use the vast majority of the water in your area to irrigate it.

How would you react? How did prevoius generations in this country act against a better equipped nation that stole and settled our land?

It's not as simply as it's the Arab's fault. Arab's, Israel and the western world all are a part of this problem.

Yes Arabs have used terrorism, but so do Israel on an even bigger scale.

Benedict XVI

kona wrote:

no matter what argument you put forward about suicide bombers, none of this would have happend if israel didnt exist, they jew left that region 1000s of years ago, and some wise guy put them there after ww2, honestly they should be removed by force and given a homeland in a part of oz or usa

Actually there have been Jews moving to and living in the area since the mid 1800's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_israel

So they should be hold to move on after 150+ years, Idon't agree.

Zulu

kona wrote:

no matter what argument you put forward about suicide bombers, none of this would have happend if israel didnt exist, they jew left that region 1000s of years ago, and some wise guy put them there after ww2, honestly they should be removed by force and given a homeland in a part of oz or usa

What? How old are you? ...no seriously, how old? It's their home. :rolleyes:

Benedict XVI

Benedict XVI wrote:

The 2 yaer old is just a causalty of a war on a country that refuses to let it's neighbor live in peace, the same way a 2 yaesr old Israeli on bus is when it is attached by an Arab suicide bomber.

If the partens on the Arab 2 yaer old whanted to live in peace whey would not live with the mindset that Israel should be destroyed.
And don't tell me that most Arabs what to live in peace or don't have the above mindset, cos if they did they would have put pressure on their leaders to recognise Israel 40+ years ago.

Your reasoning is on the same level as your spelling.

Morlar

Quote:
Originally Posted by uberpixie
They also shoot peace activists and clearly marked red cross workers.
The steal land and hae the cheek to call it "disputed territory"!
The bulldoze homes with Palestinains still inside.
They ethnically cleansed 700,000 Arabs in 1948: when the Arabs came back after the war they were told they could not get their land and homes back because they ran away!
They once ran over an old man who was in a wheel chair with a tank.
The won't Arabs who still live in Israel become full citizens, even if they marry a Jew. (Arabs = 20% of pop in Isreal)
They torture prisoners.
They hold over 1000 Palestinans wihtout charge or trial.
They beat and shoot unarmed children.
They have denied injuried Arabs treatment which led to their death.
And a whole lot more.....
But yes obviously they are all wonderfull people and are totally right and the Arabs are all evil and wrong.........

Benedict XVI wrote:

So the hell what if all the above happened,

Thats your opinion and your not the only one who has no problem with israel behaving like that.

Benedict XVI wrote:

I know I will take loads of flack for this but it is my opinion and I stand by it.

For all it’s existence Israel has and to fight against Arabs . .. . ... .. as a result Israel has to defend it’s self, and if that defense of their state involved the death of civilians so what ?

My opinion would be that the reasons for israel being the target for agression is pretty much outlined above. Your saying that israel are entitled to commit x,y,z because they are targetted - I would argue that the reason they are targeted is because they commit x,y,z.

So long as they continue to behave this way they will continue to be targets in increasingly sophisticated & lethal means. Personally I wouldnt be surprised if there are chemical or biological attacks against israel in the next 5-10 years. No matter what security steps are taken their enemies will simply get more and more sophisticated and advanced and determined - they are never going to simply decide one day to take up golf instead and israel is stupid if they think they can kill them all without creating more in the process.

Have you ever actually stopped for a second and asked yourself - - why are israel targetted? I would be interested to hear your explanation for that.

I think part of the reason israel behaves like this is because they are afraid for their lives - and it's due to their disproportionate position of power and level of influence. They are physically capable of it and never held to account afterwards. So long as that continues their actions will be seen by the everyone else as immoral. And the relatives, family friends and countrymen of their victims will sooner or later start to take an active role in looking for revenge (imo). And it wont be their crazy arab fault it will be israels.

Benedict XVI wrote:

Until that happens many more Arabs will die and it will be no ones fault but their own.

That sounds like the usual 'israel are the eternal victims' - everyone else who suffers israeli violence is actually to blame - type of nonsense.

Benedict XVI

uberpixie wrote:

How would you react? How did prevoius generations in this country act against a better equipped nation that stole and settled our land?

It's not as simply as it's the Arab's fault. Arab's, Israel and the western world all are a part of this problem.

Yes Arabs have used terrorism, but so do Israel on an even bigger scale.

At this stage I'd sit down and negoitate, the Arabs have only had misery thanks to their aggressive voilent tactics to date.

Squaddy

uberpixie wrote:

http://www.counterpunch.org/Cockburn07212006.html

Also have a listen to the Robert Fisk that DaveMcG listed links for in this thread.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054962715

The fact of the matter is the Europan powers decided to draw a line on a map with the creation of Israel without giving a damn about the opinion of the people of that region thought or the potential fallout.

They decided on a quick fix.

Over 700,000 Palestinians were forced out of Israel in 1948: they lost their homes and their farms and recieved no compensation.

If you lived and farmed on land for over 2000 years and then were forced off it, lost your home and your lively hood and got no compensation: imagine how you would react.

Even today Israel still occupy land illegally in Palestine past the agreed 1967 borders.

Imagine what it's like living in absolute poverty in a tin shack looking over at a wall, behind which was land you owned, which you farmed for generations.

Untill the IDF came in kicked you off it and bulldozed your house. And then put settlers on it and then use the vast majority of the water in your area to irrigate it.

How would you react? How did prevoius generations in this country act against a better equipped nation that stole and settled our land?

It's not as simply as it's the Arab's fault. Arab's, Israel and the western world all are a part of this problem.

Yes Arabs have used terrorism, but so do Israel on an even bigger scale.

I completely agree.

If you look at Israel they have all high rised developed Buildings with a developed economy, developed roads etc, and then when you look at Lebannon, Gaza etc. They live in tin houses, mud houses etc, poor roads, and the rest of the world is on Israels side, i would be pissed off too.

mike65

The first war Israel loose will be the last war Israel loose. Thats why things are as they are.

Mike.

Morlar

mike65 wrote:

The first war Israel loose will be the last war Israel loose. Thats why things are as they are.

Mike.

Thats just israeli propaganda in my opinion. Always the victim even when they are the attackers.

nikolaitr

Squaddy wrote:

I completely agree.

If you look at Israel they have all high rised developed Buildings with a developed economy, developed roads etc, and then when you look at Lebannon, Gaza etc. They live in tin houses, mud houses etc, poor roads, and the rest of the world is on Israels side, i would be pissed off too.

Why is that I wonder....hmmmmmm

Maybe because Israel recieves so much international aid. In the years 2000,2001 annd 2002, Israel recieved $10 Billion in Military Aid from America alone. Thats just in 3 years! And that is only the military aid. The other Middle Eastern countries see little of this as the Jewish Lobby in Washington is so powerful.

Squaddy

nikolaitr wrote:

Why is that I wonder....hmmmmmm

Maybe because Israel recieves so much international aid. In the years 2000,2001 annd 2002, Israel recieved $10 Billion in Military Aid from America alone. Thats just in 3 years! And that is only the military aid. The other Middle Eastern countries see little of this as the Jewish Lobby in Washington is so powerful.

Thats more than they gave Africa!?

oscarBravo

Threads merged.

Benedict XVI

Deleted User wrote:

Your reasoning is on the same level as your spelling.

Spelling mistakes fixed, now how about an opinion

nikolaitr

My question Benedict, is why is it ok for Israel to do it, but not for other countries?

Squaddy

Guys take a look at this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054964480

oscarBravo

Deleted User wrote:

Your reasoning is on the same level as your spelling.

Have a week's holiday, on me.

Benedict XVI

nikolaitr wrote:

My question Benedict, is why is it ok for Israel to do it, but not for other countries?

Because no other country has been under thread of destruction from it's neighbours on all sides since the day of it very coming into existence 58 years ago.

nikolaitr

Benedict XVI wrote:

Because no other country has been under thread of destruction from it's neighbours on all sides since the day of it very coming into existence 58 years ago.

Plenty have...just look in the Balkans...Pakistan and India

joebhoy1916

http://lebanonunderattack.wordpress.com/2006/07/18/chemical-weapons-used-by-the-savage-israeli-army/

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=73994

Would people here think Iran and Syria should get involved to help Lebanon do ye think they would have a right to do it?

nikolaitr

Well i wouldn't be surprised if the Israeli attack was an attempt to get Iran involved and give America a reason to attack Iran, destroying Israel's strongest enemy.

Morlar

joebhoy1916 wrote:

http://lebanonunderattack.wordpress.com/2006/07/18/chemical-weapons-used-by-the-savage-israeli-army/

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=73994

Would people here think Iran and Syria should get involved to help Lebanon do ye think they would have a right to do it?

I am starting to think they would have the moral right - but they would be risking a nuclear attack from israel (I know that sounds wacky but I honestly believe they would do it). Plus america would side with israel no matter what.

That original link was pretty mindblowing (http://fromisraeltolebanon.info/) some of the pictures there remind me of new york 9/11

Flukey

They are at it again today, dropping notes to tell people to get out, when their actions in taking out Lebanese infrastructure has made that almost impossible.